New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[Paulmanlike]

I can do a similar maneuver and believe that would qualify as somatic. I'm curious how they will measure this. It's all perception within each of us regarding how loud our tinnitus is and over any given amount of time mine will go from raging tea kettle to it's not so bad I can live with it. If I move through a cycle like that during treatment, did the treatment provide relief or did I just "habituate" on my own, as I have several times in the last 4 years.

I don't think my sound changes, I rather think the perception changes from sometimes "intrusive" to sometimes "manageable" but I don't think the volume ever really fluctuates. Still, hope this Susan's thing works, It would be one less health problem to worry about for me.

 

[GregCA]

Anyway, I can't modulate my tinnitus. The only way I can think of mine being somatic is that I put pressure on my ear with my finger just above the lobe (like pushing the ear in), the noise goes louder and a bit higher pitch. Is that even somatic?

If I understood Dr Shore's presentation correctly, pretty much anyone whose T is due to cochlear damage would be a good candidate for her device. If your cause is acoustic trauma/sound exposure/noise/etc I suspect you are a prime candidate for her device.

 

[linearb]

If I understood Dr Shore's presentation correctly, pretty much anyone whose T is due to cochlear damage would be a good candidate for her device. If your cause is acoustic trauma/sound exposure/noise/etc I suspect you are a prime candidate for her device.

Well -- you do also need to be able to modulate your tinnitus by putting tension on an identifiable muscle. Basically, as I understand it as a layman, in cases where people can do that, Shore's team thinks that what's happened is that the sensory input from the touch-sensing neurons in that muscle is being expressed as audio data by the DCN, and that the mechanism by which this happens is spike-timing-dependent plasticity, and further that a properly calibrated device can mess with this same mechanism in reverse. But, at least in their current work, that's dependent on being able to directly muck with the data coming from the touch-sensing neurons... which means that you need to be able to modulate your tinnitus by flexing a muscle which can be identified and have a TENS-like electrode connected to it.

 

[threefirefour]

If I understood Dr Shore's presentation correctly, pretty much anyone whose T is due to cochlear damage would be a good candidate for her device. If your cause is acoustic trauma/sound exposure/noise/etc I suspect you are a prime candidate for her device.

Ouch. I was really hoping this could help me...

 

[linearb]

Ouch. I was really hoping this could help me...

can you modulate your tinnitus with jaw, neck or facial movement? If so, then I wouldn't be completely hopeless, even if you think your tinnitus has more to do with TMJ than with hearing loss.

Have you had a clinical audiogram performed up to 16 kHZ? If you haven't, I would likewise be less sure that hearing loss isn't a contributor here.

The device seemed to help me. My hearing looks "almost perfect" up to 8 kHZ on a standard exam (slight dropoff on the left, but we're talking 15db range). My hearing has a clear notch at 14 kHZ on tests that go that high... but when I last had a HF test done (as part of this research, actually) the clinician said "there's a difference between ears, but even in the worse ear your thresholds would be considered pretty good for someone 15 years younger than you are".

If my experience was valid and can be extrapolated, then having significant hearing-loss is not at all a determining factor in how well this could work.

Note that my eardrum on the left is scarred from childhood ear infections, and also that ear is physically scarred from a bicycle crash a decade and a half ago. So, it's really hard for me to say how much of my hearing loss on that side is related to noise, vs these other factors. Nearly all the noise I've been exposed to has been bilateral, though as a right-handed person, my left ear will take a disproportionate amount of the exposure from guns specifically.

 

[threefirefour]

can you modulate your tinnitus with jaw, neck or facial movement? If so, then I wouldn't be completely hopeless, even if you think your tinnitus has more to do with TMJ than with hearing loss.

Have you had a clinical audiogram performed up to 16 kHZ? If you haven't, I would likewise be less sure that hearing loss isn't a contributor here.

The device seemed to help me. My hearing looks "almost perfect" up to 8 kHZ on a standard exam (slight dropoff on the left, but we're talking 15db range). My hearing has a clear notch at 14 kHZ on tests that go that high... but when I last had a HF test done (as part of this research, actually) the clinician said "there's a difference between ears, but even in the worse ear your thresholds would be considered pretty good for someone 15 years younger than you are".

If my experience was valid and can be extrapolated, then having significant hearing-loss is not at all a determining factor in how well this could work.

Note that my eardrum on the left is scarred from childhood ear infections, and also that ear is physically scarred from a bicycle crash a decade and a half ago. So, it's really hard for me to say how much of my hearing loss on that side is related to noise, vs these other factors. Nearly all the noise I've been exposed to has been bilateral, though as a right-handed person, my left ear will take a disproportionate amount of the exposure from guns specifically.

Thanks but I'm sure it's mostly, if not completely TMD. And if some isn't, then it's just ingrained in my brain.

I've had an audiogram preformed up to 16khz. Absolutely no significant dips, just very few bumps. I independently tested higher than that to discover I can hear up to 19khz. The ENT didn't say my eardrum was scarred.

 

[brummygirl]

We are in a similar position to you @threefirefour . No hearing loss, TMJ problems and maybe some upper cervical problems - who knows what causes the neck pain associated with the tinnitus?
Tinnitus modulates with jaw and neck movements and pressure on myofascial trigger points.
Really pleased it seemed to help you @linearb !

 

[hans01]

We are in a similar position to you @threefirefour . No hearing loss, TMJ problems and maybe some upper cervical problems - who knows what causes the neck pain associated with the tinnitus?
Tinnitus modulates with jaw and neck movements and pressure on myofascial trigger points.
Really pleased it seemed to help you @linearb !

Regarding neck pain, I wonder if it's not related to stress, at least in my case when I'm very stressed my neck get tense, and when I am in a situation I become angry/anxious I have the impression this becomes even worse, so maybe it's also one of the initial causes of my T (not just hearing loss, but more a combination of both)

 

[Jason37]

How do I contact them for trial...I am only a few hours away. Noise induced though?

 

[Aaron123]

How do I contact them for trial...I am only a few hours away. Noise induced though?

If you read the thread, you will find contact information.

 

[threefirefour]

If you read the thread, you will find contact information.

That wasn't very helpful...

How do I contact them for trial...I am only a few hours away. Noise induced though?

Try emailing tinn.trial@umich.edu.

 

[Jason37]

thanks

 

[crd3]

Noise-induced T here. The only thing that I've found that significantly reduces my volume is the "Reddit trick" (put hands over ears and flick the base of your skull with your fingers). That actually has made it go away almost completely for a few seconds in the recent past.

Not sure if this qualifies as somatic modulation? I think it also gets a bit louder when I turn my head really far to either side.

 

[hans799]

Not sure if this qualifies as somatic modulation? I think it also gets a bit louder when I turn my head really far to either side.

What if you clench your teeth together really hard? Or from the front, push on your chin really hard, as if you were trying to push your jaw into your skull? Both of these amplify the T for me, so I think I'm somatic, yet the Reddit trick doesn't work for me (which, AFAIK, stimulates the vagus nerve).

 

[BuzzyBee]

What if you clench your teeth together really hard? Or from the front, push on your chin really hard, as if you were trying to push your jaw into your skull? Both of these amplify the T for me, so I think I'm somatic, yet the Reddit trick doesn't work for me (which, AFAIK, stimulates the vagus nerve).

When I do those things I get new tones on top of the usual one which reacts to movement, blood sugar changes and posture (even sitting with legs crossed!). I've also noticed that when I take a bath the sound of the bathwater ramps it up, but as soon as the water goes off, the static sound dwindles down to silence. If a hot bath can bring it down you'd think a device could do the same. Right now I'm sitting perfectly still (except for my typing fingers) and the volume is low, but when I stand up it will shoot up. This has to be somatic, though I don't feel like I have control of the modulation.

The Reddit trick doesn't work for me either.

 

[crd3]

What if you clench your teeth together really hard? Or from the front, push on your chin really hard, as if you were trying to push your jaw into your skull? Both of these amplify the T for me, so I think I'm somatic, yet the Reddit trick doesn't work for me (which, AFAIK, stimulates the vagus nerve).

Doesn't have any noticeable effect for me. But it seems like having the ability to modulate manually at all implies that the device could work for me. Clearly, my T is not caused by something in my auditory system that's "dead" or I wouldn't be able to manipulate it.

 

[MBH]

I'm thinking that it's for everyone, due to tinnitus being in the brain. But also because I believe tinnitus sufferers shocked our brains, however we got it, l think everyone has a chance at the experiment, so if this is credible or pans out, have your car and plane and passport ready. It's going to be like that movie, it's a mad, mad world. And I mean world.

 

[BuzzyBee]

I'm thinking that it's for everyone, due to tinnitus being in the brain. But also because I believe tinnitus sufferers shocked our brains, however we got it, l think everyone has a chance at the experiment, so if this is credible or pans out, have your car and plane and passport ready. It's going to be like that movie, it's a mad, mad world. And I mean world.

I agree mainly because I read somewhere that the treatment was supposed to work directly on the fusiform cells. It seems like if you could calm the fusiform cells down that it wouldn't matter how they became overactive. Maybe having hearing loss puts one at risk for the fusiform cells becoming overactive again, however it would seem to me you could use the device as needed (again and again) to calm them down.

The way I understand it is that hearing loss is a part of the original recipe for tinnitus because there's a lack of signal and neurons overcompensate. Restore the signal and *maybe* the tinnitus will go away (or as my doctor says, maybe not). So I see it as a way to calm the cells down directly and bypassing the original cause.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Wow this is incredible, you know I was feeling completely hopeless, this sounds not like a charlatan, but the real deal. I pray this gives us relief! Even if I must use the device regularly... I will!

~Captain Jack

 

[threefirefour]

Wow this is incredible, you know I was feeling completely hopeless, this sounds not like a charlatan, but the real deal. I pray this gives us relief! Even if I must use the device regularly... I will!

~Captain Jack

Absolutely. I was skeptical too. I really think this may be the first relief that tinnitus sufferers will get. One giant leap for tinnitus-kind.

 

[Localboy]

Absolutely. I was skeptical too. I really think this may be the first relief that tinnitus sufferers will get. One giant leap for tinnitus-kind.

Everyone thought so of Autifony too and it sadly failed... you never know...

 

[threefirefour]

Everyone thought so of Autifony too and it sadly failed... you never know...

Yeah that and mutebutton's first time. But this one past the first great filter, it showed significant promise in the first trial. Now to pass a less risky filter; a trial on a large scale.

 

[MBH]

From other post on this it seemed that only a certain type would be able to go or it work for. And i really think we all shock our brain and we are all more alike then different. Not that I'm the be all on the subject, but I do have T not from noise.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Why Susan Shore's team don't take part of this year's TRI conference in Regensburg Germany? With such new insights it would be great to share and discuss with the rest of tinnitus researchers... what do you think?

 

[MickV]

Ego!

 

[GamingT]

Why Susan Shore's team don't take part of this year's TRI conference in Regensburg Germany? With such new insights it would be great to share and discuss with the rest of tinnitus researchers... what do you think?

Could be lots of reasons; scheduling issues, not invited, travel cost, etc. Let's not get hung up over this little issue and stay focused on topic at hand.

 

[Jiri]

Hey guys, just a little update (especially for those located in Europe). I was curious if everything goes well and as planned with Dr. Shore's and her team's project, when do they think the device could possibly be available in Europe.

So I emailed her and this is the response I received:

 

[acufenero]

Keep bombing her with stupid questions rather than letting her do her f job. No wonder she'll blow it all before she completes the device. Then of course you'll call her egocentric!

 

[Jiri]

Keep bombing her with stupid questions rather than letting her do her f job. No wonder she'll blow it all before she completes the device.

That wasn't very nice.

I just asked her a simple question because I wanted to know. Simple as that. If she didn't feel like replying she wouldn't have done that. It took her a couple of mins to reply.

 

[hans799]

Chill, people. Asking Dr Shore about trial availability in Europe was a highly relevant question. I for one am glad that it was asked.

The fact that she responds so quickly is great, it shows that she's a dynamic, in-touch person.