Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience

[JohnAdams]

I'm getting my stuff together.

Unless you are still in the acute stage then consider waiting until you have more evidence from both of us. If you are fresh into this then probably consider going ASAP.

Can you elaborate on your hearing loss/tinnitus. How you got it, how long it's been, and what your symptoms are like?

 

[Ray552]

I'm getting my stuff together.

Unless you are still in the acute stage then consider waiting until you have more evidence from both of us. If you are fresh into this then probably consider going ASAP.

Can you elaborate on your hearing loss/tinnitus. How you got it, how long it's been, and what your symptoms are like?

By acute stage do you mean less than 6 months?

 

[JohnAdams]

By acute stage do you mean less than 6 months?

Well, my version of acute is 1-2 weeks.

 

[dmorg]

Why was John's price $9K for 2 ears and Glenn's was $18K?

I exchanged a few emails with Dr. Shim and even sent him my most recent audiogram. He quoted me $9,000 per ear. For mild cases he would use blood only but for moderate to severe cases he wants to use bone marrow as well. I have profound loss in one ear and moderate loss in the other ear.

 

[PureNoise]

Does this procedure reduce tinnitus even without hearing loss?

Probably not?

 

[Little Lamb]

Hello John,

I saw one of your posts a month or two ago about your tinnitus improving. How are you doing now? I'm still trying to get the money together for Korea and want to hear some more positive news!

 

[Daniel Lion]

I exchanged a few emails with Dr. Shim and even sent him my most recent audiogram. He quoted me $9,000 per ear. For mild cases he would use blood only but for moderate to severe cases he wants to use bone marrow as well. I have profound loss in one ear and moderate loss in the other ear.

Perhaps because JohnAdams was the first Westerner and after that the floodgates would be open, that's why 18,000 is the number that keeps coming up. Not really good for hearing loss sufferers who aren't cashed up.

There really hasn't been a coherent logic to the pricing... please correct me if I'm wrong. GlennAz had the same procedure with about 25 less tympanic injections and paid twice the price. One cannot argue it's based on hearing loss alone... mind you John and Glenn both had nose work done. You would think an ear treatment, with no nose work, would come in cheaper.

I think the doctor should be paid handsomely and I'm sure he will, as I said before 12 to 14 grand would have been an increase most sufferers could have dealt with.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I know nothing of the costs of overhead, drugs, staff, etc.

Transparency seems to be an ongoing issue on every front... good science, good medicine, good pricing, should be easier to understand for your common sufferer.

I am open and continue to be open to anyone's ideas or explanations that could make sense of this... why not use marrow for mild cases, it's got the MSC that are crucial to the whole process, it's more work, but the marrow is gold...

Does not compute... brain no comprende.

 

[just1morething]

Not to mention no guarantees along with doubling the price for no apparent reason. I read the price was $6000 a couple years ago on previous threads. I had a one day reprieve from my noise and it was great. Hard to duplicate though. Thinking neck muscles or inflammatory reduction.

 

[Artemis2K]

I don't see any evidence that he's "doubled the price". I believe he charges based on the amount of maintenance and formula he has to use. Anyone who has hearing loss of ~35+ dB probably will be paying more than someone with ~25 or less. There is also the possibility that some frequencies are just harder to deal with, like 4k. This is at least what I understand from what I have seen. This isn't a treatment where if you get treated things will magically get better equally for everyone.

There is a possibility that I am wrong about the maintenance and formula used, and he could just be charging based on degree of hearing loss and nothing else. But, that wouldn't make much sense, as there would be some people who would ask for only a specific improvement because of the price, and he has said to me many times he is trying to figure out how to make it cheaper. To do it based on hearing loss alone would be self-defeating and counterproductive as it would discourage people from going and he would ultimately lose customers, and therefore money.

Regardless, if that is what he is doing, and it is easier than I believed, then that could mean more price drops could occur over time as demand hits. Raising the price would be misguided, as ultimately he actually lose potential customers and therefore money because of the spectrum of income class. However, he can do whatever he wants, as it's ultimately his call because it is his revolutionary treatment, but there is logic to pricing he'd need to follow because it could hurt him. There is also a possibility he may actually one day have to raise the price based on demand and his availability, which is within reason, but we're not at that point yet, and he has said he wants to try to reduce it further.

 

[Ed209]

I've refrained from posting in this thread as it always causes unnecessary controversy, but my communications with Dr Shim a couple of months back just further convinced me that he hasn't got a clue and should most certainly be avoided.

This is all old news now, but I shared the work of Dr Shim with two consultants, one of whom is the clinical lead of his department (these guys present at medical conferences around the world) and they said that there's no doubt in their minds that Shim is full of shit based on the available evidence. One of them said that he sees stuff like this all the time and that it is not as uncommon as one would think. He said he sees "Dr Shims" all over the place, including the UK. He went on to tell me how many of his patients when desperate, would bring up a clinic they had found - somewhere in the world - run by Dr X. He said they all have the same telltale characteristics, namely, a semi-plausible and believable principle to a layman, that can be researched and believed based on some studies that are out there. However, he said that all this confirms is the persons susceptibility to the confirmation bias which these charlatans prey upon, because if you showed the same studies in the context they are proposed (for treating tinnitus and hearing loss) to a research scientist or Dr who specialises in that field, then that person would immediately be educated as to why they are wrong. Not to mention Dr Shim's total reluctance to publish a single paper, which is absurd. The fact he hides behind a patent as proof of a medical discovery is all one needs to know as this moment in time.

His price doubled after John went and when I pointed this out I was hounded and excuses were made on Dr Shim's behalf.

I attempted two conversations with Dr Shim. One where I was completely ignored for asking this very reasonable and sensible question:

Some weeks after this I started another conversation:

He is wrong about it being on the right side and that's quite a bold statement to make. Reversible he says, really? Why hasn't the rest of the world caught up then? (You know what they say, if it's too good to be true then it probably is).

As expected, some study that has nothing to do with him and gives absolutely no indication into whether his method works. Great!

Already done it? (Claims it was done in 2014) Then where the hell is it? If he had really completed a successful study that showed good results then why would any sane person refrain from publishing it? Ask yourselves this. He is so misleading that I don't even know where to begin. It's a total embarrassment and he wants $18,000!! (I love how the price just magically doubles when he can smell more cash coming his way).

Yea, thanks for being so helpful, Dr Shim! And off he went waiting for his next victim who may be a bit more gullible and desperate.

 

[jay777]

but I shared the work of Dr Shim with two consultants, one of whom is the clinical lead of his department (these guys present at medical conferences around the world) and they said that there's no doubt in their minds that Shim is full of shit based on the available evidence. One of them said that he sees stuff like this all the time and that it is not as uncommon as one would think.

Did you ask them about Lenire?

 

[JohnAdams]

I've refrained from posting in this thread as it always causes unnecessary controversy, but my communications with Dr Shim a couple of months back just further convinced me that he hasn't got a clue and should most certainly be avoided.

This is all old news now, but I shared the work of Dr Shim with two consultants, one of whom is the clinical lead of his department (these guys present at medical conferences around the world) and they said that there's no doubt in their minds that Shim is full of shit based on the available evidence. One of them said that he sees stuff like this all the time and that it is not as uncommon as one would think. He said he sees "Dr Shims" all over the place, including the UK. He went on to tell me how many of his patients when desperate, would bring up a clinic they had found - somewhere in the world - run by Dr X. He said they all have the same telltale characteristics, namely, a semi-plausible and believable principle to a layman, that can be researched and believed based on some studies that are out there. However, he said that all this confirms is the persons susceptibility to the confirmation bias which these charlatans prey upon, because if you showed the same studies in the context they are proposed (for treating tinnitus and hearing loss) to a research scientist or Dr who specialises in that field, then that person would immediately be educated as to why they are wrong. Not to mention Dr Shim's total reluctance to publish a single paper, which is absurd. The fact he hides behind a patent as proof of a medical discovery is all one needs to know as this moment in time.

His price doubled after John went and when I pointed this out I was hounded and excuses were made on Dr Shim's behalf.

I attempted two conversations with Dr Shim. One where I was completely ignored for asking this very reasonable and sensible question:

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Some weeks after this I started another conversation:

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He is wrong about it being on the right side and that's quite a bold statement to make. Reversible he says, really? Why hasn't the rest of the world caught up then? (You know what they say, if it's too good to be true then it probably is).

View attachment 29585
View attachment 29586
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As expected, some study that has nothing to do with him and gives absolutely no indication into whether his method works. Great!

View attachment 29589
View attachment 29590
View attachment 29591
Already done it? (Claims it was done in 2014) Then where the hell is it? If he had really completed a successful study that showed good results then why would any sane person refrain from publishing it? Ask yourselves this. He is so misleading that I don't even know where to begin. It's a total embarrassment and he wants $18,000!! (I love how the price just magically doubles when he can smell more cash coming his way).

View attachment 29592
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Yea, thanks for being so helpful, Dr Shim! And off he went waiting for his next victim who may be a bit more gullible and desperate.

Oh look, it's you again.

My life has been dramatically improved by my reduction in tinnitus and Dr. Shim is the reason why.

I have undergone this treatment and it is definitely effective. You can call me a liar all you want.

I don't know what your problem is, but you definitely have one. You have a bizarre obsession with this because you have already made up your mind, with zero evidence, that there is something wrong with this, and are taking it upon yourself to whine and cry about it like a schizophrenic moron.

The beauty of this is that your arrogance has no effect on me or my tinnitus. All you're doing is feeding your own narcissism.

 

[GSC]

I don't know, he gave you and provided you with a lot of info in my perspective. Usually you have to pay to have that kind of consultation and such. The only problem is that he hasn't written his own paper, or anything like that or give out info on why the pricing is weird.

I also don't think he was rude? I think a culture-difference may be at hand here. Personally, it seems he caught onto you and got weirded out and backed off.

 

[Ed209]

Oh look, it's you again.

My life has been dramatically improved by my reduction in tinnitus and Dr. Shim is the reason why.

I have undergone this treatment and it is definitely effective. You can call me a liar all you want.

I don't know what your problem is, but you definitely have one. You have a bizarre obsession with this because you have already made up your mind, with zero evidence, that there is something wrong with this, and are taking it upon yourself to whine and cry about it like a schizophrenic moron.

I don't have any problems with you and have said so many times, and the reason I kept this off the forum was so that it wouldn't incite any more pointless arguments. But earlier today in another totally unrelated thread I was questioned about Shim, yet again, so I gave an honest answer. However, you then came in all guns blazing getting all defensive, so I thought, what the hell, I may as well just post what I know.

Shim is an asshole. Plain and simple. You can defend him all you want, I won't stop you; I only came to post this message so that people can see what he's like to talk to.

The way I see it is that you have an obsession. Why else would you randomly quote posts from me that were 8 months old in MPP about Shim? And you did so two or three more times prior to that, all of which I just ignored. I think you have it the wrong way round, buddy. If someone directly asks me about Shim I'll say what I think.

and are taking it upon yourself to whine and cry about it like a schizophrenic moron.

Why do you always feel the need to attack and be insulting? Relax, man. Is Shim like your uncle or something?

 

[Jack Straw]

Oh look, it's you again.

My life has been dramatically improved by my reduction in tinnitus and Dr. Shim is the reason why.

I have undergone this treatment and it is definitely effective. You can call me a liar all you want.

I don't know what your problem is, but you definitely have one. You have a bizarre obsession with this because you have already made up your mind, with zero evidence, that there is something wrong with this, and are taking it upon yourself to whine and cry about it like a schizophrenic moron.

The beauty of this is that your arrogance has no effect on me or my tinnitus. All you're doing is feeding your own narcissism.

@JohnAdams I think what you may be forgetting is that none of us have gotten this treatment. No one knows what happens and whether is works. You are the only person who said it has helped them. We are basically going off your one anecdotal experience with zero scientific evidence that this procedure works.

There is some science that suggests that certain aspects of his treatment may help tinnitus, but we don't have a definitive study for his method. I'm not talking about the methods he combines and uses, I'm talking about his specific method.

He says he has had a trial done and is in the process of publishing. This still is highly questionable to me. If a doctor had the first method to treat of cure something, why wouldn't he go through the right channels to show the science behind it and make it widely available. He could make significantly more money if it was a proven and approved procedure. More people would get it done because insurance companies would pay for it instead of the patient paying for it themselves. This just doesn't make any sense.

Comparably, look at Neuromod. They have released the scientific data about their product as seen in the presentation. They are even getting peer reviewed to validate this information. This is how Dr. Shim should be doing it.

You could say that he isn't business savvy and doesn't realize he is holding himself back, but he is a doctor in Korea and isn't an idiot. This just seems sketchy.

Another thing is that he DOUBLED the price of the treatment. This shows that he does care about money, so why wouldn't he take further steps to increase his revenue such as publication and peer review?

At the end of the day we have zero scientific evidence about what he is doing. Until his specific procedure is published and reviewed we can only speculate. Just like what was done with Neuromod until their data was released And we will continue to do until they are peer reviewed.

I believe that you feel he has helped your tinnitus, but it may also be possible that your tinnitus would have naturally gotten better over time. Perhaps there are other factors at play. That is why we need a controlled study to show us that there was no other factors at play.

In conclusion, the reason people are skeptical and question whether this works is the following:

1) No scientific evidence about his procedure working because studies say "more research is required" or "this method SEEMS promising." This doesn't mean they work.

2) Nothing has been published and reviewed by an unbiased third party

3) We only have anecdotal reports from one person that it worked

4) Price was doubled for no reason

5) He becomes defensive when people ask for more information regarding the procedure instead of taking the time to explain what his specific method is

 

[JohnAdams]

Why do you always feel the need to attack and be insulting?

You called me a name. You called me "bonkers" and insinuated that I am stupid.

I think the stupidest thing I've heard on here is that someone actually paid Dr Shim. Very brave, but totally bonkers.

That's what you do. You insult me and then when I insult you back you play the victim. It's a disgusting personality trait.

 

[FGG]

You called me a name. You called me "bonkers" and insinuated that I am stupid.

That's what you do. You insult me and then when I insult you back you play the victim. It's a disgusting personality trait.

Dude, if you want to shut him up post a before and after of your audiogram. I think that would go along way towards assessing Dr. Shim's credibility.

Honestly, I think it's a bit weird that he wouldn't discuss payment method with Ed until after he agreed to pay. I find that way stranger than not publishing (which he may not want to do out of greed and the risk of inspiring competition).

 

[GSC]

If y'all think he was rude, you must have dealt with some good as fuck doctors here in the States. Because he is a saint among the shit doctors I've come across.

 

[GlennAz]

Hi Ed,

You really don't like Dr. Shim apparently. You don't know him. He's really a nice guy.
Did you know that Watson and Crick actually didn't discover the double helix configuration of DNA, while they were tripping on a light dose of LSD. Rosalind Franklin, at Kings College London did.

All the time, other people get the credit or steal other people's discoveries. Watson and Crick got the Nobel Peace price too.

Dr. Shim has a patent, he doesn't give away his techniques, he hasn't published a paper. Is it possible he doesn't want someone else to steal his work?

 

[just1morething]

If y'all think he was rude, you must have dealt with some good as fuck doctors here in the states. Because he is a saint among the shit doctors I've come across.

I thought you were from Europe? What state are you from or don't you want to say?

@FGG is right that before and after audiograms would silence the critics possibly. I'm personally more interested in tinnitus reduction or elimination than hearing improvement, but they should go hand in hand I suppose.

 

[GSC]

I thought you were from Europe? What state are you from or don't you want to say?

@FGG is right that before and after audiograms would silence the critics possibly. I'm personally more interested in tinnitus reduction or elimination than hearing improvement, but they should go hand in hand I suppose.

Not me. I'm in a very big blue state.

 

[just1morething]

Not me. I'm in a very big blue state.

I'm guessing Texas. I want to visit there sometime.

 

[Jack Straw]

Hi Ed,

You really don't like Dr. Shim apparently. You don't know him. He's really a nice guy.
Did you know that Watson and Crick actually didn't discover the double helix configuration of DNA, while they were tripping on a light dose of LSD. Rosalind Franklin, at Kings College London did.

All the time, other people get the credit or steal other people's discoveries. Watson and Crick got the Nobel Peace price too.

Dr. Shim has a patent, he doesn't give away his techniques, he hasn't published a paper. Is it possible he doesn't want someone else to steal his work?

As someone else who also participated in this treatment can you please post your before and after audiograms? Preferably ones that happened before and after you went you South Korea.

We literally have zero scientific evidence about this procedure besides two people saying they got it done...

 

[just1morething]

Not me. I'm in a very big blue state.

I'm Columbo LAPD. I did a check on you already based on your picture lol . You were in our database from the FBI.

 

[GSC]

I'm Columbo LAPD. I did a check on you already based on your picture lol . You were in our database from the FBI.

Wot.

 

[Ed209]

You really don't like Dr. Shim apparently. You don't know him. He's really a nice guy.

I'm sure he is really nice once he has your money.

Dude, if you want to shut him up post a before and after of your audiogram. I think that would go along way towards assessing Dr. Shim's credibility.

I'd like to see a before and after audiogram from a third party that shows a clinical improvement beyond the margin of error. Two audiograms that show a marginal improvement doesn't really mean a lot to me as mine improved by 25 dB at some frequencies and I didn't do anything other than rest my ears and take loads of supplements.

You called me a name. You called me "bonkers" and insinuated that I am stupid.

I was just expressing my view in the same way you expressed yours when you said I was stupid for thinking a studio is not an inherently dangerous place to be. I don't see how that makes me a schizophrenic or why you get so defensive about Shim when someone else asked me about him. This is exactly why I've ignored your last 4 attempts to lure me into an argument. I can't be bothered to argue with you.

 

[GSC]

I was just expressing my view in the same way you expressed yours when you said I was stupid for thinking a studio is not an inherently dangerous place to be. I don't see how that makes me a schizophrenic or why you get so defensive about Shim when someone else asked me about him. This is exactly why I've ignored your last 4 attempts to lure me into an argument. I can't be bothered to argue with you.

No one asked you about Shim though from what I read. You brought him up???? Bill just responded, with no question and you went on a tangent from what I'M reading.

 

[Jack Straw]

I'm Columbo LAPD. I did a check on you already based on your picture lol . You were in our database from the FBI.

A cop with tinnitus? How do you deal with fire arms at work?

I always wondered how cops deal with NIHL due to their fire arms.

 

[Jack Straw]

No one asked you about Shim though from what I read. You brought him up???? Bill just responded, with no question and you went on a tangent from what I'M reading.

You don't have to be asked something to contribute. I think Ed provides a good counter balance argument to this thread.

Just like how some people from this thread counter balance the Lenire thread.

It is necessary and good to keep everyone open minded and on their toes.

 

[GSC]

You don't have to be asked something to contribute. I think Ed provides a good counter balance argument to this thread.

Just like how some people from this thread counter balance the Lenire thread.

It is necessary and good to keep everyone open minded and on their toes.

I don't know, I just think him and John have beef and it's only going to grow more and more because of these kind of antics. Ed brought Shim up, no one else brought him up. He did it all himself, by himself. Maybe they should go into the UFC and donate the money to funding for treating tinnitus.