Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience

[Daniel Lion]

Hmm, he's never been defensive with me.

If you gave me $18,000 I wouldn't be defensive, I'd be rather gracious and super nice.

Valuable insight, thanks for sharing, and thanks for posting your audiograms.

You have done stem cells, and now PRP, you have had more experience than 99 percent of the people on this forum with these procedures.

Thank you for sharing your information.

Sounds like you're getting some positive changes... congratulations.

 

[FGG]

At this moment, it's not a lot better.
But every now and then, I hear something that I normally don't think I would.
Yesterday, I heard my better half walking on the tile floor and noticed a light echo sound as she was walking. I haven't heard that before.

And on the bone conduction headphones Dr. Shim gave me to listen to everyday... as I pair them up to listen to music, there's a woman's voice speaking about 3 sentences. It was vague and unclear in the beginning. I can tell now she's definitely not speaking English. I didn't know that a few weeks ago.

I get little things like this happening.
But conversation is still very difficult.

Keep us posted...

 

[GlennAz]

If you gave me $18,000 I wouldn't be defensive, I'd be rather gracious and super nice.

This may be true, but when I said he never got defensive with me, I was really thinking about the many emails I sent to Dr. Shim, before deciding to do this and sending him $18000.

But I suppose anyone can get defensive if you push the wrong buttons.

 

[Daniel Lion]

This may be true, but when I said he never got defensive with me, I was really thinking about the many emails I sent to Dr. Shim, before deciding to do this and sending him $18000.

But I suppose anyone can get defensive if you push the wrong buttons.

My bad, apologies, and understood. He has always been kind and undefensive with me as well...

Sorry, I misunderstood you... my bad.

 

[just1morething]

It's all about the results from his treatments, not his demeanor. I would much sooner get good results from a not so friendly person than poor results from a gracious kind person.

 

[Jiri]

Here's how I think Minbo Shim's therapy works. He didn't explain this to me, I put all of this together myself.

First off, this is how hair cell regeneration technology works.

A class of chemicals called notch inhibitors or gamma secretase inhibitors makes contact with the surface of the stem cell. The stem cells in our inner ear are classified as LGR5+ (positive), meaning that it expresses a gene called Leucine-rich repeat-containing G-protein coupled receptor 5.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGR5

Inside the cell there is a protein called Beta-Catenin. This is the finger that throws the "switch" that makes LGR5+ stem cells proliferate, which means divide and regenerate into mature cells, in this case, hair cells in the cochlea. In order for this to occur, enough Beta-Catenin has to enter into the nucleus of the cell.

But, the reason our hair cells aren't regenerating on their own is because once Beta-Catenin is created inside the cell, there is a group of proteins that form something called the Beta-Catenin destruction complex, this destroys the Beta-Catenin before it can enter into the nucleus in enough quantity to activate the proliferation process.

The β-catenin destruction complex.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169527


One way to stop the Beta-Catenin from being destroyed is by activating a cellular signalling pathway called WNT (pronounced wint).

Generation of hair cells in neonatal mice by β-catenin overexpression in Lgr5-positive cochlear progenitors.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23918377

This is how drugs like FX-322 work to "wake up" dormant stem cells in the inner ear.

There is a class of proteins involved with many functions in our bodies called growth factors.

One of these growth factors is called insulin-like growth factor 1. IGF-1.

IGF-1 has been shown in multiple human clinical trials to improve hearing recovery.


Insulin-like growth factor 1: A novel treatment for the protection or regeneration of cochlear hair cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25937136

Actually I never noticed this part before but they verified that it causes cochlear supporting cells to proliferate in cochlear explants.

"The mechanisms of IGF1-induced maintenance of hair cell number have been investigated using a cochlear explant culture system, which demonstrated that IGF1 acts on supporting cells, leading to the inhibition of hair cell apoptosis and the proliferation of supporting cells."


Another study, showed that IGF-1 increases cellular Beta-Catenin levels.

Insulin and IGF-1 stimulate the β-catenin pathway through two signalling cascades involving GSK-3β inhibition and Ras activation

https://www.nature.com/articles/1204064

"IGF-1 increased the cytoplasmic levels of β-catenin."



IGF-1 is produced in our bodies, in part in blood platelets.

There is not any blood in our inner ear fluid. Inner ear fluid is different from blood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endolymph

You can create a platelet rich composition of blood by putting drawn blood in a centrifuge which separates the platelets into something called platelet rich plasma, PRP.
PRP contains growth factors, including IGF-1.

The growth factors and other cytokines present in PRP include:

• platelet-derived growth factor
• transforming growth factor beta
• fibroblast growth factor
• insulin-like growth factor 1
• insulin-like growth factor 2
• vascular endothelial growth factor
• epidermal growth factor
• Interleukin 8
• keratinocyte growth factor
• connective tissue growth factor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platelet-rich_plasma


In your middle ear there is a semi-permeable membrane called the round window.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_window


So that's how you can deliver medicine to the cochlea, by filling up the middle ear, via eardrum injection, with a viscous solution containing X substance, it rests in the middle ear and the substance, if molecularly small enough, will diffuse through the round window membrane. That's why the various presentations produced by FrequencyTX, as well as their homepage emphasize that their products are "small molecule drugs", because this is exactly how FX-322 is delivered to the cochlea.

Other neurotrophic compounds are also being investigated to repair lost cochlear synapses by diffusion through the round window membrane.

Round-window delivery of neurotrophin 3 regenerates cochlear synapses after acoustic overexposure
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cochlear_synapses_after_acoustic_overexposure


So that's my theory, that IGF-1 works just like FX-322 to disable the Beta-Catenin destruction complex and cause the stem cells to proliferate into functioning hair cells except that IGF-1 is already produced in our bodies and needs to be manually introduced into the cochlea. Also PRP may be much safer than FX-322 because it is good for healing holes to the eardrum that would be caused by the injection.


Topical use of autologous platelet rich plasma in myringoplasty.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25794691

"Topical autologous PRP application during myringoplasty is safe and highly efficient and successful with no reported complication"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25794691

Dear @Dr. Ancill, @Dr. Jay Hobbs and @brownbear

As medical professionals yourselves, can I ask what your opinion on Dr. Minbo Shim's method of treatment of the sensorineuronal hearing loss and tinnitus is?

http://cmclinics.com/category/about-our-clinic/

Thank you for your attention.

 

[Dr. Jay Hobbs]

Great compilation of references and theory @Jiri.
I must defer to others on this one, since this is an area that I have no experience and have done very little research.

 

[Jiri]

Great compilation of references and theory @Jiri.
I must defer to others on this one, since this is an area that I have no experience and have done very little research.

Thank you for your response. Just a side note: the compilation of references and theory was done by @JohnAdams.

 

[EddieA]

Can someone who has done this please message me?

I actually go to Korea 1-2 times a year for work and I have already contacted Dr. Shim.

I am strongly considering getting this treatment done sometime this summer.

I have a few questions regarding the procedure and recovery time.

Thanks!

 

[JohnAdams]

Can someone who has done this please message me?

I actually go to Korea 1-2 times a year for work and I have already contacted Dr. Shim.

I am strongly considering getting this treatment done sometime this summer.

I have a few questions regarding the procedure and recovery time.

Thanks!

That would be me.

 

[brownbear]

@GlennAz. Have you ever considered a Cochlear Implant?

 

[brownbear]

As medical professionals yourselves, can I ask what your opinion on Dr. Minbo Shim's method of treatment of the sensorineuronal hearing loss and tinnitus is?

Honestly I think it is difficult to know. He may well be an amazing pioneer but something about it doesn't sit well with me. It's not like South Korea is some place off the medical map where he would have no hope of undertaking proper trials and producing decent data. The South Korean healthcare system as far as I have heard is excellent and doctors there frequently publish high profile excellent work and present their work internationally. So, I'm skeptical. However someone has to start somewhere. I wanted to look into any studies examining the absorption across the round window of these substances but I haven't had a chance yet. I'm sure it must have been looked at.

I think someone asked whether you could get someone to do this for you in the UK? I think currently the answer is no. In our healthcare system you can't just decide that you are going to introduce a new procedure either on the NHS or privately. This would most likely need to be part of a large scale study. Any ENT who did this without going through the proper channels would be in trouble. Also if there were any complications they would be sued (and almost certainly not covered by their insurance).

 

[GlennAz]

@GlennAz. Have you ever considered a Cochlear Implant?

Yes I went to an ENT shortly before getting treated by Dr. Shim.

The ENT's audiologist there told me I should look into a cochlear implant. I'm a candidate.

But after doing a google, I see that CI can cause further nerve damage.
That's the opposite of what I'd like.

 

[Jiri]

Honestly I think it is difficult to know. He may well be an amazing pioneer but something about it doesn't sit well with me. It's not like South Korea is some place off the medical map where he would have no hope of undertaking proper trials and producing decent data. The South Korean healthcare system as far as I have heard is excellent and doctors there frequently publish high profile excellent work and present their work internationally. So, I'm skeptical. However someone has to start somewhere. I wanted to look into any studies examining the absorption across the round window of these substances but I haven't had a chance yet. I'm sure it must have been looked at.

I think someone asked whether you could get someone to do this for you in the UK? I think currently the answer is no. In our healthcare system you can't just decide that you are going to introduce a new procedure either on the NHS or privately. This would most likely need to be part of a large scale study. Any ENT who did this without going through the proper channels would be in trouble. Also if there were any complications they would be sued (and almost certainly not covered by their insurance).

This makes very good sense. Thank you for taking time out to answer my question.

 

[SmoothMatt]

I have asked my two ENTs (one from Mayo Clinic) about Minbo's treatment and neither could recommend it, after looking at it they said it raises too many red flags.

What was most concerning to me was hearing that he doesn't appear to follow good clinical practice guidelines regarding introducing new treatment modalities into the medical field.

 

[GlennAz]

I have asked my two ENTs (one from Mayo Clinic) about Minbo's treatment and neither could recommend it, after looking at it they said it raises too many red flags.

What was most concerning to me was hearing that he doesn't appear to follow good clinical practice guidelines regarding introducing new treatment modalities into the medical field.

Hi Matt, I totally disagree. Just because some American doctors don't know what a Korean doctor's procedure is, doesn't make it wrong or dangerous. They've never met Dr. Shim, haven't seen his clean spotless clinic, or his skill.

 

[brownbear]

@GlennAz. Of course you must do what you think is best for you and definitely wait and see what outcome you get from the PRP treatment. I would suggest that you don't dismiss a CI completely. With short modern electrodes and 'soft' surgical techniques as they are known, you could have a CI and there is a good chance of preserving your low frequency hearing. You would have to get a phenomenal increase in your hearing from the PRP to match the expected outcome from a cochlear implant. CIs are also one of very few interventions that have excellent results regarding tinnitus reduction in the severe/profoundly deaf group. Work-up for a CI is a lengthy process to ensure that you would get benefit from it, so no one would rush you into it. Best wishes and good luck with your treatment and the future.

 

[RB2014]

Yes I went to an ENT shortly before getting treated by Dr. Shim.

The ENT's audiologist there told me I should look into a cochlear implant. I'm a candidate.

But after doing a google, I see that CI can cause further nerve damage.
That's the opposite of what I'd like.

Our hearing charts are nearly identical and I'm 46. I am also in the same boat as you. Word recognition really bad even with hearing aides. I rely on reading lips mostly.

I am holding out for frequency at this point and if not getting a CI in a few years. I'll read up on your experiences too. thanks for sharing.

 

[JohnAdams]

after looking at it

Looking at what?

 

[GlennAz]

Word recognition really bad even with hearing aides. I rely on reading lips mostly.

I'm so sorry you got the same issue I got. It sooo totally sucks.
That's one of the biggest downers is the lack of word recognition. You hear people talking, but they could just as well be speaking a foreign language, for how much sense they make.

I can't read lips. How do you learn?
I take that back. Sometimes I can. When another driver is cursing me here, I can read their lips. And it's not very nice what they're calling me. lol.

This is one of my biggest hopes with the PRP... more clear understanding. I realized most people are going nuts from their tinnitus, but I really went to Dr. Shim hoping for better recognition. And I knew I needed to go, or I'd never know if this would work or not. Everyone is really only talking about whether this helps for tinnitus or not.

And I am very very positive of a good outcome from this.

 

[lymebite]

Well over a year ago, long before @JohnAdams and @GlennAz visited Dr. Shim in Korea, I consulted with an ENT about autologous stem cells drawn from my iliac crest to treat tinnitus and severe hyperacusis. My plan was to inject the stems into the bloodstream via IV.

The ENT suggested that rather than simply inject them via IV, I should have the extraction done, arrange for a handoff from the stem cell physician to the ENT, and the ENT would inject them into my middle ear through my ear drum. Just like Dr. Shim.

We did not discuss mixing the stems with PRP, because remember this was long before @JohnAdams and @GlennAz underwent their procedures and reported back.

It all seemed too complicated logistically and unproven to me, so I did not proceed with the intra-tympanic approach, but stayed with the original plan to inject the stem cells via IV. The IV approach had no effect positive or negative for me.

I mention all this because while there may not be many ENTs out there willing to try things like this, there are some. All the experience I have related here took place in the United States in a major metropolitan area with well-known and reputable physicians.

So in my experience, it can be possible to push the edge of the envelope in the United States. Not easy, but possible.

Looking back in 20 / 20 hindsight, now with the benefit of all the information from this thread, I wish I had tried the intra-tympanic approach. And maybe I will give it another go at some point.

 

[JohnAdams]

Look at the bigger picture here people.

Stop making this about Dr. Shim, stop making this about me.

What I have uncovered from my experience is that there is a way out of this hell. I have tracked down the possible action of this treatment and there are actually supporting studies that show how this would be feasible.

Everyone is all excited about FX-322, which is a chemical, and the details of the studies aren't being released. There have been multiple human trials with hundreds of people for IGF-1 ear injections which showed gains in hearing up to 35dB, there are also studies showing that supporting cells proliferate from IGF-1 treatment in dissected cochleas. We, as a community, need to start making noise for further studies into using IGF-1 to treat hearing loss.

"Among several growth factors tested, epidermal growth factor, transforming growth factor α, basic fibroblast growth factor, and IGF-1 were able to induce proliferation. In particular, combination of basic fibroblast growth factor and IGF-1 or transforming growth factors α had additive effects. Similar mitogenic effects were confirmed for epidermal growth factor and transforming growth factor α in vestibular organ culture (Lambert, 1994; Yamashita and Oesterle, 1995). Moreover, epidermal growth factor caused supernumerary HC [hair cell] formation even in neonatal mouse cochlear organ culture (Lefebvre et al., 2000)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4159992/

Also these growth factors are what is in the PRP.

Forget Neuromod, forget FX-322, forget OTO-XXX. The best thing we could be hoping for right now is for some university somewhere to make further studies into IGF-1 to treat hearing loss. This stuff has been shown to be safe from the aforementioned studies and is widely available due to it's widespread use in the athletic field.

The BTA's website states:

IGF-1 has been shown to restore hearing in patients with hearing loss, and it has been not ruled out as of yet whether it can treat chronic hearing loss and tinnitus.

IGF-1 may very well be a treatment/cure, yet

 

[david14433]

@JohnAdams I am seriously thinking about doing this treatment.

Three questions.

On a scale of 1 - 10 what was the levels of your tinnitus before and after treatment? 1 being barely perceptible, 10 being you can't take it anymore.

Is there anyone in the US that does this treatment?

Can you give an itemized run down on how much you spent for this treatment? E.g., cost of treatment, cost of plane tickets etc.

Thanks.

 

[Agatha]

On a scale of 1 - 10 what was the levels of your tinnitus before and after treatment? 1 being barely perceptible, 10 being you can't take it anymore.

His tinnitus was "cured" for a period of time by Curcumin as well, he's prone to placebo.

Is there anyone in the US that does this treatment?

No. Only this one shady clinic in South Korea.

Can you give an itemized run down on how much you spent for this treatment? E.g., cost of treatment, cost of plane tickets etc.

Over $20,000 at least. I think he's gone there twice now...?

If I were you I would read the posts by @Ed209, he has criticized the treatment and the doctor very appropriately.

 

[Ken219]

This doctor Rivolta, that sexy man Steve is about to interview, restored hearing in mammals 7 years ago. Why are we still suffering? Why haven't they replicated this procedure in humans IN 7 YEARS?

You have a point.

 

[Ken219]

The BTA's website states:

I believe back in 1990 I read about the same goal; Continue to invest...?

 

[spedgas]

Hi Matt, I totally disagree. Just because some American doctors don't know what a Korean doctor's procedure is, doesn't make it wrong or dangerous. They've never met Dr. Shim, haven't seen his clean spotless clinic, or his skill.

They haven't seen his research or his peer reviewed and published papers either.

Because they don't exist.

 

[JohnAdams]

His tinnitus was "cured" for a period of time by Curcumin as well, he's prone to placebo.

I was in near silence only while on curcumin in high doses. Other people on this forum have experienced positive effects with curcumin/turmeric as well. There was no placebo effect. That's an arrogant assumption.

Only this one shady clinic in South Korea

There is absolutely nothing shady about this clinic, you haven't even been there and you don't know anything.

Is there anyone in the US that does this treatment?

I wish there was. There should be.
I will eventually answer the rest of your questions in my final write up about this experience.

The only two people on this forum that you should take any advice from about this are @GlennAz and I as we are the only ones that have been there.

These other people are snarky know-it-alls that like to talk trash and know little to nothing about any of this.

Notice I'm not urging people to run out and fly to this clinic and neither is Glenn. My main argument is that further research into this is warranted, not outright dismissal.

 

[RB2014]

I'm so sorry you got the same issue I got. It sooo totally sucks.
That's one of the biggest downers is the lack of word recognition. You hear people talking, but they could just as well be speaking a foreign language, for how much sense they make.

I can't read lips. How do you learn?
I take that back. Sometimes I can. When another driver is cursing me here, I can read their lips. And it's not very nice what they're calling me. lol.

This is one of my biggest hopes with the PRP... more clear understanding. I realized most people are going nuts from their tinnitus, but I really went to Dr. Shim hoping for better recognition. And I knew I needed to go, or I'd never know if this would work or not. Everyone is really only talking about whether this helps for tinnitus or not.

And I am very very positive of a good outcome from this.

In order to get better word recognition we need to gain hearing in the upper frequencies. Our charts are similar and yes I hear people but have trouble understanding words as well. It's because we are missing the entire sound spectrum of the word. The words start to all sound the same and you start to play the rhyming game and it's a fast paced world. You can fall behind pretty quickly in a conversation.

You just have to keep practicing at reading lips. It's not perfect, but the sound and the movement of the mouth help me to get better word scores. It's not magical, but it helps. It takes me from 1/10 to 4/10 or so in the word recognition department. Still not enough to carry a conversation.

Lymebyte...As far as stem cells. I'm pretty sure just injecting them into the ear doesnt work. They die in the cochlear solution before they can do anything. I read that from one of the studies. I did read the study in children where they injected cord blood stem cells through an iv and I thought it did help some of the kids. Not sure exactly why, but I think being young and having it be stem cells directly from cord blood were the two main factors for this working.


Again, thanks to John and Glenn for your experiences. They are greatly appreciated.

 

[just1morething]

There is absolutely nothing shady about this clinic, you haven't even been there and you don't know anything.

I personally would think @brownbear's credentials as an ENT should carry the most weight regarding Dr. Shim's treatments. How many anecdotal reports do we have on tinnitus reduction or elimination or hearing loss improvement since Dr. Shim started his treatments a few years ago? We only know his prices went up drastically is all for no apparent reason. I do hope his treatments work at least to some degree so we have a viable current treatment and not have to wait years for an FDA approved one.

Shea Ear Clinic in Memphis, TN doesn't even advertise their IT injections for tinnitus anymore. I personally think they were milking the insurance companies as their procedures used to be covered by most major medical policies. Curiously they don't offer them anymore according to their website.