Same applies for me. Does anyone have information about growth factors and/or stemm cells and correlation to cancer development? I think, when growth in cells is stimulated in "abnormal" ways, could this lead to abnormal growth, like cancer?
South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
Same applies for me. Does anyone have information about growth factors and/or stemm cells and correlation to cancer development? I think, when growth in cells is stimulated in "abnormal" ways, could this lead to abnormal growth, like cancer?
Member
Did not see any information about it. Just speculatius. Thus my question is, if someone knows any information that is close to that topic: Regenerative medicine in the broader sense of growth factors, stem cell therapies and cancer development.
bill 112
Member
Stemcells have the capability to turn into cancer from what I've read,but it's still considered somewhat safe.
The reason Stemcell therapy isn't widespread is because of your very concerns,that it has the potential to get ugly and cause cancer which is why more research is needed to prevent this from happening.
But it's like anything,almost everything can cause cancer these days.
If stem cells are used in this treatment it would be yours, extracted from your body. I think with this type of stem cell the risk of cancer is almost non existent.
Don't know about the growth factors through
Don't know about the growth factors through
Going through his site he says he treats people with tinnitus and shows improvement in hearin but never adresses if the tinnitus got better , annoying and indicative of no improvement in T.
Also, what does NRM mean in the audiograms ?
Also, what does NRM mean in the audiograms ?
It means that the person didn't hear the tone / press the button on the audiogram.
In the last update the guy in his 30 says that his T improved. Also there is a video where the guy says "noise calm down".
This is where an objective measurement of tinnitus would be nice...
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Because I genuinely don't see how someone who was fake would be stupid enough to put his name, and his friends, out there like that. I don't see how someone who was fake would go to all that trouble of traveling the world for study, including Heller's Lab. He has also appeared in media, though foreign, which talks about his clinic. There is also a video on Facebook with his clinic and dozens of people in the background. There are many things on his sites that have added up to where I am pretty convinced.
Based on all the websites I looked through, and the YouTube videos I watched, he is a real doctor. That looks obvious to me. If he was BS he would be risking his reputation and his freedom, which would obviously be stupid.
Maybe I am missing something. I am trying to stay realistic. Regardless, I will be waiting for almost a year before I take any action, to save money and allow enough time for it all to reveal itself. I suggest others to do the same.
bill 112
Member
Shim told me many patients seen improvement in Tinnitus some a complete silencing but he admits that was rare.
The only thing that Shim has going for him is his use of growth factors,if what Libermann tells me is correct,that auditory nerve fibres survive for decades after they have detached and that growth factors tell them to sprout out and reattach again then maybe Shim is doing just that with whatever soup he injects into your ears.
NT-3 is the most potent growth factor for the job,it's the growth factor responsible for synaptic connections forming in the inner ear during our development BUT,it's not the ONLY growth factor capable of doing so.
They tested this years ago using various drugs and proteins and each had their own level of success,some having none at all so it is plausible that administering growth factors to the ear can indeed reduce T or H if synaptopathy truly is the cause.
Funnily enough the reason they aren't pumping NT-3 into our ears today is because it has a nasty affect on haircells and causes them to die,NT-3 has to be administered accurately on site to be effective and cause no complications.
So I wonder if the growth factor Shim pumps into our ears is responsible for the higher frequency loss we've seen on some of those audiograms,if NT-3 is anything to go by its completely plausible.Theres also long term problems to consider alongside that,will this cause hearing to die a month after treatment etc and as of yet we haven't any experiences from his former patients to conclude what,if any problems they had.
I think, that the audiograms are not faked and he is doing what he sells, regarding the "scam artist" doubts. I want to explain why: There are scientific papers that indicate possibilities to influence the hearing. There are ongoing and planned trials with humans for substances to regenerate hair cells or nerves. Papers exist which describe the methods and compounds that were used und what results they produced. In my opinion, it is not impossible that one could use this information to reproduce the methods and use them in humans (with enough effort). Whether this is efficient (see high frequencies) or safe (cancer? other complications that arise after a longer period) is possibly not even analyzed whatever he is doing.
This would explain his reaction on the high frequency stuff: He did not manipulate the uploaded audiograms (because there are still high frequency losses), he is just saying something like "yeah it will get better, with more treatment". This is a strong indication, in my opinion, that he is doing something that is not well researched.
This would explain his reaction on the high frequency stuff: He did not manipulate the uploaded audiograms (because there are still high frequency losses), he is just saying something like "yeah it will get better, with more treatment". This is a strong indication, in my opinion, that he is doing something that is not well researched.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
He has claimed to have done clinical trials, but I cannot find them on the internet.
I just want a specific and detailed explanation of why those losses occur. It's almost as if a lot of his examples don't necessarily improve, but the damage relocates, which I find to be bizzare.
Yet, I also think that expecting perfection is unrealistic as well. I have emailed scientists and they have said that in their own treatments certain people are not candidates because there is a certainty of damage. The "Do Not Harm" approach is cherished. So, people like me, 15 db loss maximum, are not candidates for certain treatments. I don't expect to ever be a candidate for gene therapy.
But what Shim appears to be doing doesn't seem to overall have that problem. Yes, there is sometimes loss, but seems improvement is possible, and the loss that has been shown does not appear to be as bad as the alternative approaches.
I think I have found out, what he is doing.
In this picture (date: 2016-06-21) in the russian Facebook presentation of the clinic he says "there is hope" for hearing loss with IGF-1.
From what I have understood in some papers, IGF-1 is the "Insulin-like growth factor 1" and is linked to two pathways in the cochlea which promote the restoration of not-yet dead hair cells.
I will state the titles of the papers here only, because I am not allowed to copy them (copyright violation). When you have university access, you can access them for sure.
The first paper shows the general importance of IGF1 in the cochlea and the second paper shows the results of IGF1 treatment after sudden sensinoiral hearing loss. Both papers are directly shown in his facebook post:
1: Cediel, Rafael, et al. "Sensorineural hearing loss in insulin‐like growth factor I‐null mice: a new model of human deafness." European Journal of Neuroscience 23.2 (2006): 587-590.
2: Nakagawa, Takayuki, et al. "Audiometric outcomes of topical IGF1 treatment for sudden deafness refractory to systemic steroids." Otology & neurotology 33.6 (2012): 941-946.
By using google scholar i have found a new review paper about IGF1 which recaps the effect of IGF-1 on cochlear cells. In short, it says that IGF-1 was found to be safe to use and effective in HC protection and regeneration of not dead HCs:
Yamahara, Kohei, et al. "Insulin-like growth factor 1: a novel treatment for the protection or regeneration of cochlear hair cells." Hearing research 330 (2015): 2-9.
I think he is using IGF1 but it is still unclear what he is doing else. Because in this picture he is saying, the methods are: blood, fatty tissue and tubinate). Maybe he is using this as gel?
In this picture (date: 2016-06-21) in the russian Facebook presentation of the clinic he says "there is hope" for hearing loss with IGF-1.
From what I have understood in some papers, IGF-1 is the "Insulin-like growth factor 1" and is linked to two pathways in the cochlea which promote the restoration of not-yet dead hair cells.
I will state the titles of the papers here only, because I am not allowed to copy them (copyright violation). When you have university access, you can access them for sure.
The first paper shows the general importance of IGF1 in the cochlea and the second paper shows the results of IGF1 treatment after sudden sensinoiral hearing loss. Both papers are directly shown in his facebook post:
1: Cediel, Rafael, et al. "Sensorineural hearing loss in insulin‐like growth factor I‐null mice: a new model of human deafness." European Journal of Neuroscience 23.2 (2006): 587-590.
2: Nakagawa, Takayuki, et al. "Audiometric outcomes of topical IGF1 treatment for sudden deafness refractory to systemic steroids." Otology & neurotology 33.6 (2012): 941-946.
By using google scholar i have found a new review paper about IGF1 which recaps the effect of IGF-1 on cochlear cells. In short, it says that IGF-1 was found to be safe to use and effective in HC protection and regeneration of not dead HCs:
Yamahara, Kohei, et al. "Insulin-like growth factor 1: a novel treatment for the protection or regeneration of cochlear hair cells." Hearing research 330 (2015): 2-9.
I think he is using IGF1 but it is still unclear what he is doing else. Because in this picture he is saying, the methods are: blood, fatty tissue and tubinate). Maybe he is using this as gel?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
bill 112
Member
If Shim is seeing results in older patients like some of his results claim,doesn't that mean they had hearing loss for a long time now?
So if IGF-1 revives not dead yet haircells how is he seeing results with patients who have had hearing loss for a long time?
So if IGF-1 revives not dead yet haircells how is he seeing results with patients who have had hearing loss for a long time?
There is a thread about IGF1 here:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...wth-factor-1-as-sshl-salvage-treatment.16310/
I was thinking the same. As I understand, the death of cells is not a sudden moment rather a process which takes time. Cells maybe survive a long time, before they die. Maybe thats why.
As I now am convinced that I have an idead about what he is doing, I am seriously considering going there. Therefore I will contact him and ask him that questions.
Additionally I will look near my City, whether I can find any doctor who could reproduce his method.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Of course it cannot be taken seriously. That looks barely scientific, if you can call it that, or even focused.
Also, I discourage any mention of wanting to replicate his research. I don't know how he would react. Phrase things carefully. Perhaps you can say that you have done in-depth research to the point where you are completely convinced of his legitimacy and are eager to be a patient, however you wanted to ask some questions if he was willing to answer. I'm just suggesting this as some people have been blocked due to their skepticism.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I'm still a little surprised that we might actually be on to something. We might actually finally have an answer? Very fascinating.
I might actually be able to go just about full focus on my life again, and my only worries would be mirror-hand disorder and Aspergers.
I might actually be able to go just about full focus on my life again, and my only worries would be mirror-hand disorder and Aspergers.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I guess we'll have to ask Dr. Minbo Shim to upload more examples.
According to the data Minbo Shim posted, there were some slight improvements overall. However, the larger frequencies are indeed harder to regenerate.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Apparently Dr. Minbo Shim has updated the English site with two more high frequency examples. http://cmclinics.com
Did I mention this before?
Did I mention this before?
No you didn't. Thanks for keeping the scammer's thread updated and all bumped up, Mr. Shim's assistant... so it feels!
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Where have I encouraged people to go there? I have specifically said for people to wait until October so that if they decided to go they would have time to learn about him and save money. Jumping there quickly would be foolish.
I don't recommend doing that. Wait. I've flipped around on what I would do myself as soon as i had the money, but ultimately I decided that even if I gained a lot of money quickly, I'd still wait. But I cannot stop others from doing differently. I hope that if they do decide on that, they at least let everyone know what goes on, and leave immediately if they learn it is BS before the procedure.
And yes, I am excited about this. I have done a lot of work to where I am convinced. Again, I'm not going to jump on it, but my mental state has been better ever since the guy became a subject. A month before I read about the guy, I was very mentally messed up. I don't even want to get into that detail, but thinking that there was a possibility that I could have a normal life again has given me a bit of serenity.
Please stop suggesting that I'm his assistant. That's a ridiculous and offensive claim.
I don't even think you have looked into this as much as @vaka and I have.
I wonder if there already are comments from main stream medical science on the internet regarding this clinic.
These statements regarding curing hearing loss supported by audiograms are bold to say the least.
Is this clinic not yet "important" enough to ruffle some feathers?
Perhaps we can expect some comments in a few months?
These statements regarding curing hearing loss supported by audiograms are bold to say the least.
Is this clinic not yet "important" enough to ruffle some feathers?
Perhaps we can expect some comments in a few months?
The website has been updated again. Now he doesn't seems to hide the fact that high frequencies can get worse, he even writes it clearly...
Also age seems to be an important factor, people in their 20s or 30s seems to improve more easily.
http://cmclinics.com/
Also age seems to be an important factor, people in their 20s or 30s seems to improve more easily.
http://cmclinics.com/
For everyone who thought the clinic is this big building. There are many other shops in that building. I dont know where exactly his is located. But you can have a look through this gallery
https://search.naver.com/search.naver?sm=tab_niv&ie=utf8&where=image&query=청민성모 이비인후과&nso=so:r,a:all,p:all#imgId=blog18043602|46|220601888430_1&vType=rollout
https://search.naver.com/search.naver?sm=tab_niv&ie=utf8&where=image&query=청민성모 이비인후과&nso=so:r,a:all,p:all#imgId=blog18043602|46|220601888430_1&vType=rollout
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
I live in Japan, there are many very good doctors/clinics in what seems like small crappy, old buildings - and the average one doctor-run clinic is small and rents/space is expensive so I would not judge the "building" too much in this particular case.
They don't have hundreds of patients per day so costs need to be kept in check and in Asia, real estate cost in large major cities is a big factor.
They also don't charge 25'000 USD like in Bangkok stem cells - how much of this is going to the rent
They don't have hundreds of patients per day so costs need to be kept in check and in Asia, real estate cost in large major cities is a big factor.
They also don't charge 25'000 USD like in Bangkok stem cells - how much of this is going to the rent
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