South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

[Twitch]

I assume the downside of stem cells & growth factors intravenously would be the ears would be less of a target and the stem cells would spread throughout the body and repair other areas however on the flipside high frequency hearing may be preserved.

The stem cells would still likely repair other parts of the body anyway but with growth factors injected in the ear, they would be screaming 'hey check me out!' so more likely the ear would be more targeted. I wish Mimbo finetunes his growth factors and does more follow up so we can see if high frequency hearing returns maybe a few months after treatment.

 

[Rasmus]

I did a little google search for hearing regeneration and his clinic is popping up. You would think if it was a big scam he would claim better results like 90% hearing loss improvement, 100% cured, etc.

If this guy is truly onto something, the bigger companies hopefully are not too far behind.

Not to take hope down but if i was a scammer i would say some thing 50% because that sounds more true. But ye i hope this is true and i think it is. But only time will tell

 

[bill 112]

I assume the downside of stem cells & growth factors intravenously would be the ears would be less of a target and the stem cells would spread throughout the body and repair other areas however on the flipside high frequency hearing may be preserved.

The stem cells would still likely repair other parts of the body anyway but with growth factors injected in the ear, they would be screaming 'hey check me out!' so more likely the ear would be more targeted. I wish Mimbo finetunes his growth factors and does more follow up so we can see if high frequency hearing returns maybe a few months after treatment.

They also administer the cells through lumbar puncture which is believed to be much more effective.

IV transplantation is shotgunning the problem, the chances of the cells getting to where they are needed is slim as most just end up in the lungs for some reason.
Lumbar puncture at least gets the cells to the brain and CNS but even then it's still a"let's hope they do what's needed"kind of thing.

 

[RaZaH]

I just got a response from this guy , sent him my audiogram and info .

 

[Michael Larsen]

My biggest fear would be if the treatment (injection into the ear) only would make my T worse.
Otherwise I was ready to leave tomorrow.

 

[Artemis2K]

Not to take hope down but if i was a scammer i would say some thing 50% because that sounds more true. But ye i hope this is true and i think it is. But only time will tell

If I was a scammer I would never attach my real name and the names of colleagues to the whole thing. I wouldn't be traveling the world, spending thousands of dollars on plane tickets, and then getting the Russian media to know who I am. I wouldn't have pictures of me and dozens of others in suits. I wouldn't even allow myself to have connection with Heller through visiting his lab. I probably wouldn't be able to keep up with "fake" audiograms, so I wouldn't do that, and paying someone else to make them would cost too much.

If this guy was full of crap, he would be seriously digging himself a hole right now. He also already has enough evidence that he is an actual doctor, so I don't think he would want to risk that. It would be very easy to tell if he was illegitimate, audiograms for the most part do not lie.

I do believe him, but if I end up going there myself and it ends up being a lie, I would be beyond pissed. I would also question his intelligence because he basically put a target on his back if he was a scammer. However, thankfully this does not seem to be the case, and he seems to be the real deal.

Anyway, cmclinics.com updated with a pdf document with some information about the clinic. Although, I think it is mostly stuff already seen.

 

[Rasmus]

If I was a scammer I would never attach my real name and the names of colleagues to the whole thing. I wouldn't be traveling the world, spending thousands of dollars on plane tickets, and then getting the Russian media to know who I am. I wouldn't have pictures of me and dozens of others in suits. I wouldn't even allow myself to have connection with Heller through visiting his lab. I probably wouldn't be able to keep up with "fake" audiograms, so I wouldn't do that, and paying someone else to make them would cost too much.

If this guy was full of crap, he would be seriously digging himself a hole right now. He also already has enough evidence that he is an actual doctor, so I don't think he would want to risk that. It would be very easy to tell if he was illegitimate, audiograms for the most part do not lie.

I do believe him, but if I end up going there myself and it ends up being a lie, I would be beyond pissed. I would also question his intelligence because he basically put a target on his back if he was a scammer. However, thankfully this does not seem to be the case, and he seems to be the real deal.

Anyway, cmclinics.com updated with a pdf document with some information about the clinic. Although, I think it is mostly stuff already seen.

Dude this is next level scamming xD



I didt know he did all that thanks for info.

 

[RaZaH]

Scams come in many forms. Some scammers are scamming themselves, believing that they are doing good, selectively ignoring data that contradicts their findings or deciding not to explore it to the fullest.
Like in this instance , follow up audiograms in a few months and measuring higher then 8k ...which I personally find incredible ...doing this procedure literally blind to what happens at higher frequencies.

That is bordering on negligence.

 

[VRZ78]

Yeah but people that go there seems to have moderate or severe hearing loss. They probably don't care what happens to the high frequencies hearing speech correctly would be good already...

 

[Artemis2K]

Scams come in many forms. Some scammers are scamming themselves, believing that they are doing good, selectively ignoring data that contradicts their findings or deciding not to explore it to the fullest.
Like in this instance , follow up audiograms in a few months and measuring higher then 8k ...which I personally find incredible ...doing this procedure literally blind to what happens at higher frequencies.

That is bordering on negligence.

I am going to see if I can get him to post his clinical trial data later today. I also hope to get him to elaborate on the high frequency stuff. He has said that with his graph the high frequencies overall didn't decrease, but also didn't much increase either due to them usually being the most violated by sound. I would like more information.

I am also going to be asking more questions to that Korean New York lawyer I had talked to the past, who said at first glance seemed legitimate, even with all the content I gave him. Maybe we can know more soon.

 

[RaZaH]

I am going to see if I can get him to post his clinical trial data later today

Awesome.
He at least needs to make the distinction for Tinnitus patients with very high freq T that his treatment might not work for that ?

 

[Artemis2K]

Awesome.
He at least needs to make the distinction for Tinnitus patients with very high freq T that his treatment might not work for that ?

What else do you want to know?

My primary goal will be to get the clinic trial data, as well as ask more about tinnitus and the higher frequencies.

You should take a look at the pdf he made on cmclinics.com as well. What do you think about it?

 

[RaZaH]

wow, the treatment is 6000 usd for each ear ... that is steep to say the least.

He also said the 14khz is too high of a frequency to bother someone...that makes absolutely no sense at all.
You would only need to play 14 khz from your speakers for say 30 sec to realize that is not true.

 

[Aaron123]

My primary goal will be to get the clinic trial data, as well as ask more about tinnitus and the higher frequencies.

Why do you think those data will be more believable than the audiograms posted on-line?

You should take a look at the pdf he made on cmclinics.com as well. What do you think about it?

It is useless.

What else do you want to know?

Copies of published papers. There's still no guarantee the data are not manipulated, but there would be more detail and measures of statistical significance (missing from his pdf).

 

[GregCA]

wow, the treatment is 6000 usd for each ear ... that is steep to say the least

We probably have different perspectives: my stapedotomy cost about $30,000 when I did it last year. One ear only.
If the procedure works well, $6,000 doesn't seem that bad to me.

 

[grate_biff]

He also said the 14khz is too high of a frequency to bother someone

Yeah, that must be the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say regarding T.
I have a 4 kHz tone like T. Doesnt bother me one bit.
The 12-14 kHz T. that is dancing with electrical heels on my brain is killing me literary.

 

[RaZaH]

If the procedure works well, $6,000 doesn't seem that bad to me.

I agree , I say this in the context of it being a massive gamble at the moment.

 

[RaZaH]

I have a 4 kHz tone like T. Doesnt bother me one bit.

Indeed , when I have an awesome day is when I only have a small 4-5 k tone , that stuff is childs play

 

[RaZaH]

The 12-14 kHz T. that is dancing with electrical heels on my brain is killing me literary.

I sent him an email addressing this issue.
This is a huge red flag for me at the moment , I am so tired of knowing much , much more about hearing and T then doctors....where are all the professionals ?

I am not at all saying he´s a fraud or a scam , but this shows a pretty glaring lack of knowledge or at the very least the classic 0 to 8khz tunnel vision of most hearing specialists.

Having said that , I am awaiting his response , he might have a better explanation ?
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being , while obviously this is a lot of money and my health is on the line ..so being skeptical is normal I guess ?

 

[VRZ78]

wow, the treatment is 6000 usd for each ear ... that is steep to say the least.

He also said the 14khz is too high of a frequency to bother someone...that makes absolutely no sense at all.
You would only need to play 14 khz from your speakers for say 30 sec to realize that is not true.

Bad news I thought it was 6000 for 2 ears...
Did he said that hearing loss at that frequency is not bothersome or that T at that frequency is not bothersome?
If it's hearing loss I can understand because only like sound engineer or audiophile would notice the loss I think... One of my friend didn't even notice his headphones were playing in mono all the time lol.
But yeah if it's T he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about because it's one of the hardest T...

 

[RaZaH]

Actually he said both , that hearing loss at 14 khz will not bother you, and I agree , mostly sound engineers will be bothered by that . But he also said that Tinnitus will be located at the same freq as hearing loss and that 14k is to high to bother someone. I did ask for clarification , hope I am not rushing to judgement here .

I would rather not copy his answers into this post but yes , this is how I understood it.

 

[VRZ78]

Actually he said both , that hearing loss at 14 khz will not bother you, and I agree , mostly sound engineers will be bothered by that . But he also said that Tinnitus will be located at the same freq as hearing loss and that 14k is to high to bother someone. I did ask for clarification , hope I am not rushing to judgement here .

I would rather not copy his answers into this post but yes , this is how I understood it.

Sucks that he said that. Tell him yours bother you and tell him to play that frequency very loud using this lol http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

 

[Artemis2K]

Bad news I thought it was 6000 for 2 ears...
Did he said that hearing loss at that frequency is not bothersome or that T at that frequency is not bothersome?
If it's hearing loss I can understand because only like sound engineer or audiophile would notice the loss I think... One of my friend didn't even notice his headphones were playing in mono all the time lol.
But yeah if it's T he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about because it's one of the hardest T...

Here's what he has said:

For people with slight hearing loss, he will offer $6,000 for both ears with no additional cost. That is what he told me by email, saying that the level of damage is too low to need a full dose in one ear. There is also a Sales Festa thing that he did in October, where he offered half-off for all. I know the Sales Festa thing itself is legitimate, as I looked that up specifically. It appeared on multiple websites and seems to be designed for Korean tourism, and is a national thing. Think of it as a bigger Black Friday designed to attract tourists.

So, theoretically, for people like me if I went in an October and the Sales Festa was active I would get a 1/4 off because of my low level hearing loss. However, if everything checks out, I intend to do a second treatment if the first one is only slightly effective.

...Now if I could just get the online business stuff I have been wanting to do up and running smoothly so I could actually fund this stuff. xD

 

[RaZaH]

level of damage is too low to need a full dose in one ear.

What did he consider small hearing loss ?

 

[Artemis2K]

What did he consider small hearing loss ?

He didn't say specifically, but my hearing loss is 15 db. I'm going to just assume up to 20 dB. I probably should ask for specifics. Though, perhaps we can guess with his common positive outcomes? Some people have regained 10 dB or more with just one treatment, according to his sites.

 

[Rasmus]

Sucks that he said that. Tell him yours bother you and tell him to play that frequency very loud using this lol http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

i can hear up to around 16000 15700 how good is that?

 

[VRZ78]

It's good hearing. How old are you ?

 

[Rasmus]

It's good hearing. How old are you ?

22

 

[RaZaH]

@Rasmus you should reach at least 18 k at that age , but its still pretty good .
Also depends on how you are measuring that , at home or professionally.

 

[Rasmus]

@Rasmus you should reach at least 18 k at that age , but its still pretty good .
Also depends on how you are measuring that , at home or professionally.

could that be the reason for my T?