Member@Artemis2K: I am looking for an email for Dr. Jong Won Rhie, St. Mary Catholic Hospital/University. I will find it
South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
I found an email address - Jong Won Rhie; rhiejw56@gmail.com - I found it here. https://www.researchgate.net/public...ar_Restrospective_Study_and_Literature_Review
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Here's the problem (or at least one of the problems) stating in his pdf "tinnitus disappears" while i cannot see that mentioned in any if the individual tests , in some of them there is talk of a reduction. That just feels like so many of the "treatments" we have seen through the years " tinnitus miracle" etc.
He also does not measure above 8 khz and therefore knows absolutely nothing what happens above that freq , in fact it could wipe out everything above 8 khz and no one would know .
Maybe it does help tinnitus , maybe it only helps tinnitus in the lower bands , like the classic 4-6 khz tinnitus.
If it does nothing above 8 khz then there is little reason to think that it helps tinnitus that sits above that and if i am not incorrect I suspect that most people with severe tinnitus have T above 8 khz.
At some point he is going to have to inspect what happens above 8khz , seems soooo strange to me that he does not do that , at least to satisfy himself that he is not doing damage ...just feels wrong to me.
Having said that ...he may just be a layperson when it comes to hearing and growth factors and stem cells are his forte , a "quick" readup on hearing and you might easily think that you are fulfilling standards by measuring only to 8 khz, it is the standard after all ?
Absolutely insufficient for developing any kind of hearing restoration though and this is my biggest problem as it stands because its a problem even though his method "works"
He also does not measure above 8 khz and therefore knows absolutely nothing what happens above that freq , in fact it could wipe out everything above 8 khz and no one would know .
Maybe it does help tinnitus , maybe it only helps tinnitus in the lower bands , like the classic 4-6 khz tinnitus.
If it does nothing above 8 khz then there is little reason to think that it helps tinnitus that sits above that and if i am not incorrect I suspect that most people with severe tinnitus have T above 8 khz.
At some point he is going to have to inspect what happens above 8khz , seems soooo strange to me that he does not do that , at least to satisfy himself that he is not doing damage ...just feels wrong to me.
Having said that ...he may just be a layperson when it comes to hearing and growth factors and stem cells are his forte , a "quick" readup on hearing and you might easily think that you are fulfilling standards by measuring only to 8 khz, it is the standard after all ?
Absolutely insufficient for developing any kind of hearing restoration though and this is my biggest problem as it stands because its a problem even though his method "works"
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
You could always point that out and ask. He did respond when I told him about Vaka's analysis, and said it was an extremely interesting event. He also pointed the occasional reductions out in one of his previous posts after he was told about it.
Also, he is an ENT. He apparently does nose surgeries as well.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I played with the idea of possibly doing LLLT before doing this. Thought it could boost the potential eventual regeneration, as I could of sworn some mentioned the ultras being repaired. But what I see of LLLT is mixed as well. I have no way of knowing if it helps people with noise based loss. Unfortunately I only see that from Shim's treatment, since he has treated soldiers.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
In Korea there is a compulsory 4 years military service for all men so yes the noise induced cases will be much higher in proportion to the population
If he can cure this there will not go so long before we get it in other country so i can waitThere is also a chance something like this would be free in my country
I do not think I would have the patience to wait for a treatment would come to Denmark, so rather go to the US when the time comes. and pay for it. but I think you are right before long there will be others than Shim
If the us got a treatment soon i dont think there would go more then 2-3 mounth before we got it in denmark
i could easy wait for that if i knew it would work 
Rubenslash
Member
The thing that gives me the most hope is that if a random South Korean researcher/doctor can restore this kind of hearing, all these biotech companies must come up with a pretty good treatment soon. Much more resources. Too bad that clinical trials take such a long time..
Rubenslash
Member
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I believe technically Sohl was a special case since she was treated quickly and her loss came from what I think was autoimmune issues.
"Once they had a large pool of immature progenitor cells (about 2,000-fold greater than any previously reported), the researchers added another set of molecules that provoked the cells to differentiate into mature hair cells. This procedure generates about 60 times more mature hair cells than the technique that had previously worked the best, which uses growth factors to induce the supporting cochlea cells to become hair cells without first expanding the population".
http://news.mit.edu/2017/drug-treatment-combat-hearing-loss-0221
If Shim uses growth factors, isn't it risky ? We could loose all of our supporting cells : it means no future (legit) treatments...
http://news.mit.edu/2017/drug-treatment-combat-hearing-loss-0221
If Shim uses growth factors, isn't it risky ? We could loose all of our supporting cells : it means no future (legit) treatments...
Can't they test this in mice etc?
I know this is not the same, but could give an indication.
If the haircells are completely recovered, the only damage that there still is is possibly the nerve?
Good catch. Hopefully the treatment doesn't make all the support cells to transform so it won't be a problem for future treatment. I think when the supportive cells become hair cell they also create supportive cell but not sure...
If the new haircells are not connected to nerves, they are pretty much useless. If there is damage to the nerves, I don't see how the new haircells will connect...
Rubenslash
Member
I don't think so... Supporting cells just become hair cells.
We have to be very careful. Supporting cells might be the most precious thing we carry for a future cure.
Shim seems to only have a vague idea of what he is doing.
Rubenslash
Member
I agree, this is exactly the reason why I don't consider this treatment at all. It might make my ears unable to get better future treatments as we don't have a clue of what he's injecting.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I think that because Shim offers several additional treatments, that might mean that there are still plenty of support cells. I also wonder if that support cell multiplier is cochlear region specific.... In other words, will the support cells grow all over the place or be focused in specific areas?
Still, what I care about is getting my balanced hearing and appreciation of music back. I want results and I want to be able to hear clearly again.
Still, what I care about is getting my balanced hearing and appreciation of music back. I want results and I want to be able to hear clearly again.
Rubenslash
Member
Let's say that this guy restores 20% of your hearing and that in 10 years there's a legit treatment that restores 70% of it. But because a random Korean doctor fucked with your ears you are not eligible anymore, how would you feel? Of course, this is hypothetical but still worth considering in your decision. Maybe you are okay with above scenario, I don't know. I certainly am not.
Sorry to say, but if you are younger than let's say 50 years old, I don't think it's worth the risk. But I am a very rational in these kind of decisions, you might feel different. Sorry if I spoil the fun.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Let's say that this guy restores 20% of your hearing and that in 10 years there's a legit treatment that restores 70% of it. But because a random Korean doctor fucked with your ears you are not eligible anymore, how would you feel? Of course, this is hypothetical but still worth considering in your decision. Maybe you are okay with above scenario, I don't know. I certainly am not.
Sorry to say, but if you are younger than let's say 50 years old, I don't think it's worth the risk. But I am a very rational in these kind of decisions, you might feel different. Sorry if I spoil the fun.
20% of 15 dB restored would still be quite lovely. I'm still going to be waiting a few years. Getting $20,000 or lesss within a year just isn't possible in my case. I highly doubt that this would be a dead end thing, but I will still wait and see what happens.
I have been through a lot in the last 4 years. The career and projects I wanted to pursue had to be dropped because of my ear problems. Having disorienting unbalanced hearing loss with loud ringing is a major pain in the ass, so I couldn't do what I wanted to do. I also had to drop hobbies that helped with depression.
One way or another, I am going to get everything back. I am not going to be in my 50's and realize I lost a lot of opportunities that I wanted to pursue because of stupid things I did when I was a teenager.
I'll be honest, before this "random Korean guy" showed up, I was considering suicide. But I haven't been in complete dread in months. So, at the very least, I am thankful for him for that, even if he somehow ends up being bullshit. (Though I doubt that at this point with all the research I put in.)
But, as I said, some people had to have multiple treatments in order to have huge effect. Therefor, I don't think for someone in my have much to worry about. Who knows, maybe LLLT would actually work on me first?
I am not going to do anything without knowing all the facts first, though. I don't even have the money to jump up and do that either.
To be honest I don't think Shim treatment would kill all the supportive cells, maybe unless you have profound loss. I'd think that the supportive cells divide only if there is a loss. And in the article they say that they first expend the population to create 2000 new hair cells. So if this is done by starting cellular division it means if you have even one left it would work, although I doubt one would create 2000 new ones...
Yes of course. It's a lot of things to put together.
Yep. I'm 30. If I make it to 50, which is still young by today's standards, legit treatments should be available.Let's say that this guy restores 20% of your hearing and that in 10 years there's a legit treatment that restores 70% of it. But because a random Korean doctor fucked with your ears you are not eligible anymore, how would you feel? Of course, this is hypothetical but still worth considering in your decision. Maybe you are okay with above scenario, I don't know. I certainly am not.
Sorry to say, but if you are younger than let's say 50 years old, I don't think it's worth the risk. But I am a very rational in these kind of decisions, you might feel different. Sorry if I spoil the fun.
But I don't want to live 20 shitty years if my situation doesn't improve quite soon.
What would the point to be able to do things at 50 that I don't want to do any longer because I'm 50 ?
It's a tough one !
This is off topic but: Wow, I have read across the paper which is mentioned in the article and I think they got it. In short: they discovered a mixture of chemicals and developed a protocol to give raise to new hair cells in an adult cochlea by first cloning supporting cells which then differentiate into new hair cells. They used an explanted adult mouse cochlea and killed many hair cells with gentamycin. Afterwards they used their protocol. The result was a 7-fold number of hair cells compared to the control-cochlea which was not treated. And the newly grown hair cells showed every sign of normal hair cells.
Maybe one has to do more, like restore neural paths, but for me, this is one big step towards a treatment for hearing loss sufferers. They are giving me hope that a very good, like 75% restoration, treatment will come within the next 10 years.
I hope they pass the human trials without a greater roadblock.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
It would actually be helpful if others asked Frequency TX about the growth factor and support cell stuff, and whether or not the new treatment would still be obtainable if someone did the growth factor treatment first. I hope to get answers.
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