South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
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So this would have the capability to heal existing tissue? It would not use any supporting cells in the repair effort? What body part are they aim for in clinic trials?
I never planned to go for a treatment. But I did plan to drop by and ask questions. Sadly, my H worsened in December, and I got scared to fly again soon after that, so I cancelled my trip to Japan and South Korea.
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I think better option is to wait until Frequency TX or Decibel Therapeutics start their clinical trails about hearing restoration and T suppression, and sign up for clinical trials. This should be around 2 years from now. I suppose it's gonna be safer and better documented than the treatment in Korea.
Did we ever definitively determine whether the IVF growth factor induces supporting cochlea cells to become hair cells?
Did Frequency ever get back saying what growth factor that used which did this supporting inducement operation?
@Mentos do you know the link or have you heard any updates from this Polish scientist regarding this Chinese NT3 viral blood injecting clinical trial? On the big if that we could believe their data the results would be very interesting to see.
Hi guys, I've been in touch with Unique Access in Thailand and they have new program options which are more affordable. You still get the growth factors, 160 million stem cells (mesenchymal) lumbar puncture and 5 days of care/nutrition. It's 15K vs the usual 30 - 40K and in a really nice clinic. Sounds much more appealing than the 6K Shim treatment.
Mesenchymal stem cells are not pluripotent and therefore won't regenerate neurons or hair cells that's why it's only 15K against 30K. You'll need embryonic or cord blood stem cells.
Zok
Member
- Feb 17, 2017
- 43
- Tinnitus Since
- not sure, likely 10+years
- Cause of Tinnitus
- don't know maybe loud sounds
Are you sure? I think they are pluripotent.
Anyways a stem cell doesn't have to be pluripotent to develop into another type of tissue (this just means they do not multiply), thought I am not sure what is needed, it is most likely just to be nearby some other type of cell you want to turn them into. I suppose stem cell pick up DNK/RNK from nearby cells.
Anyways a stem cell doesn't have to be pluripotent to develop into another type of tissue (this just means they do not multiply), thought I am not sure what is needed, it is most likely just to be nearby some other type of cell you want to turn them into. I suppose stem cell pick up DNK/RNK from nearby cells.
Rubenslash
Member
From Wikipedia : Mesenchymal stem cells, or MSCs, are multipotentstromal cells that can differentiate into a variety of cell types,[1] including: osteoblasts (bone cells),[2] chondrocytes (cartilage cells),[3] myocytes (muscle cells)[4] and adipocytes (fat cells).
Other info : http://www.pathologystudent.com/?p=8299
Zok
Member
- Feb 17, 2017
- 43
- Tinnitus Since
- not sure, likely 10+years
- Cause of Tinnitus
- don't know maybe loud sounds
You are correct I mixed up terms pluripotent and multipotent. I was taling about pluripotencey in the last sentence of the post.
We either need pluriopotent cells or the ones that are specialised the same way as a stromal cells with the difference that they can differentiate into hearing cells. Thought I am not sure there is such a type of semi-differentiated stem cells.
We either need pluriopotent cells or the ones that are specialised the same way as a stromal cells with the difference that they can differentiate into hearing cells. Thought I am not sure there is such a type of semi-differentiated stem cells.
@VRZ78 Mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) are adult stem cells traditionally found in the bone marrow. However, mesenchymal stem cells can also be isolated from other tissues including cord blood, peripheral blood, fallopian tube, and fetal liver and lung.
Unique Access is using mesenchymal cord cells. just like StemCells21 uses for this treatment. StemCells21's cost for their 100 million cell 7-Day program is $45K. Perhaps the procedure in Thailand is becoming more mainstream so competition is growing. They mentioned their pricing used to be much higher and have now gotten more competitive.
Unique Access is using mesenchymal cord cells. just like StemCells21 uses for this treatment. StemCells21's cost for their 100 million cell 7-Day program is $45K. Perhaps the procedure in Thailand is becoming more mainstream so competition is growing. They mentioned their pricing used to be much higher and have now gotten more competitive.
Yeah you're right their umbilical cord stem cells are mesenchymal cells. I wouldn't bother going there then.
Is there any evidence that Tailand therapy fix tinnitus?
Well one person here went to the clinic and had a reduction of about 50%.
But in my opinion the clinic in Seoul is a better choice, except if you have loads of money then I'll suggest to do both lol
Based off ATEOS' experience, he recommends umbilical cord cells like the 2 clinics I mentioned above. Embryonic cells are what causes tumors and you should stay away from those. The difference between the 45K clinic and the 15K clinic is that it is a 5-day therapy vs 7 days, and they do not do the additional oxygen, laser and intranasal therapies. They only offer the lumbar puncture, growth factors and IV vitamins which is probably still much more than the Shim clinic offers.
@VRZ78 First you said cord cells were good but then when I confirmed they were using cord cells you said to not to go to that clinic as they were not using the correct type of stem cells. This is contradicting and you're confusing everyone or perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.
Additional info from the 15K treatment clinic:
Umbilical cord Mesenchymal stem cells are by far the most widely used cell type due to;
- Relative prematurity of these cells which means more potential to differentiate
- No risk of rejection, allergic reaction or Graft versus host disease (GVHD)
- Much higher quantities as compared to all other sources
- Absolutely zero risk of tumor or unnecessary tissue growth
How Mesenchymal Stem Cells Work?
Differentiation: They can differentiate into many cell types which replace dead or injured cells
Immune System Regulation: They can regulate the whole immune system thus reduce inflammation, fibrosis, gliosis and initiate the repair process
Paracrine effects: Regulate the action of other cells by releasing growth factors and cytokines, promote communication between cells and migrate towards the targeted site.
@VRZ78 First you said cord cells were good but then when I confirmed they were using cord cells you said to not to go to that clinic as they were not using the correct type of stem cells. This is contradicting and you're confusing everyone or perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.
Additional info from the 15K treatment clinic:
Umbilical cord Mesenchymal stem cells are by far the most widely used cell type due to;
- Relative prematurity of these cells which means more potential to differentiate
- No risk of rejection, allergic reaction or Graft versus host disease (GVHD)
- Much higher quantities as compared to all other sources
- Absolutely zero risk of tumor or unnecessary tissue growth
How Mesenchymal Stem Cells Work?
Differentiation: They can differentiate into many cell types which replace dead or injured cells
Immune System Regulation: They can regulate the whole immune system thus reduce inflammation, fibrosis, gliosis and initiate the repair process
Paracrine effects: Regulate the action of other cells by releasing growth factors and cytokines, promote communication between cells and migrate towards the targeted site.
I thought cord blood stem cells were not mesenchymal and therefore I thought they were pluripotent not multipotent that's why when you told me that I said it's not very useful.Based off ATEOS' experience, he recommends umbilical cord cells like the 2 clinics I mentioned above. Embryonic cells are what causes tumors and you should stay away from those. The difference between the 45K clinic and the 15K clinic is that it is a 5-day therapy vs 7 days, and they do not do the additional oxygen, laser and intranasal therapies. They only offer the lumbar puncture, growth factors and IV vitamins which is probably still much more than the Shim clinic offers.
@VRZ78 First you said cord cells were good but then when I confirmed they were using cord cells you said to not to go to that clinic as they were not using the correct type of stem cells. This is contradicting and you're confusing everyone or perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.
Additional info from the 15K treatment clinic:
Umbilical cord Mesenchymal stem cells are by far the most widely used cell type due to;
- Relative prematurity of these cells which means more potential to differentiate
- No risk of rejection, allergic reaction or Graft versus host disease (GVHD)
- Much higher quantities as compared to all other sources
- Absolutely zero risk of tumor or unnecessary tissue growth
How Mesenchymal Stem Cells Work?
Differentiation: They can differentiate into many cell types which replace dead or injured cells
Immune System Regulation: They can regulate the whole immune system thus reduce inflammation, fibrosis, gliosis and initiate the repair process
Paracrine effects: Regulate the action of other cells by releasing growth factors and cytokines, promote communication between cells and migrate towards the targeted site.
15 K for umbilical cord cells is quite a good deal though especially for 100 million.
The difference with the Seoul clinic is that there stem cells are not the main components but intratympanic injection of growth factors specially selected based on research on inner ear is. That's why I think this clinic would be more effective. I don't know if unique access offers intratympanic injection of growth factors and if they have any experience in doing this.
@VRZ78 Got it, so you're all for intrantympanic. I agree, it could be more beneficial but I know it comes with slightly more risk. StemCells21 does not usually include it in their tinnitus treatment but I believe I read somewhere they would consider it if necessary. Here's what Unique Access said "The Lumbar puncture injections is the easiest and safest way for the stem cells to reach the Central Nervous System in which the inner ear is connected."
Just saying: At this point, there is very little true, scientific evidence that stem cell injections fix much of anything, except in the orthopedic area. Some evidence, yes. But very small studies, or inconclusive, or just on animals. I am very familiar with the case of three women being blinded after they had stem cell injections in both eyes at a Florida clinic.
Stem cells hold great promise. But the safety and efficacy evidence is not there yet. And in some cases, you can do yourself real harm, as the Florida case shows.
Also: I wouldn't believe anything those for-profit clinics, that charge thousands of dollars, tell you. All they want is your money. Some aren't even staffed by real doctors -- or have doctors who got booted out of other states and countries because of malpractice. They are preying on desperate people's misery.
Stem cells hold great promise. But the safety and efficacy evidence is not there yet. And in some cases, you can do yourself real harm, as the Florida case shows.
Also: I wouldn't believe anything those for-profit clinics, that charge thousands of dollars, tell you. All they want is your money. Some aren't even staffed by real doctors -- or have doctors who got booted out of other states and countries because of malpractice. They are preying on desperate people's misery.
@Jim51042 That statement is from the clinic, not me. There's probably risk with everything but from what I've gathered, embryonic holds the risk in that aspect. Of the two respected clinics I've contacted that treat tinnitus specifically, they both recommend umbilical cord mesenchymal stem cells (even the very expensive clinic).
RonnieCarzatto
Member
- Feb 19, 2017
- 268
- Tinnitus Since
- Feb 01 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Mild head injury maybe... but who knows...
I've contacted a close friend of mine who reside just outside of Seoul and is fully bilingual in English and Korean to check out the clinic in person and let me know if it appears legitimate or not
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