South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

#34
Mricha37 said:
Wait, so why are you trying to get in touch with him? Just trying to get some details.
Click to expand...

Well, I am not familiar with this researcher, but apparently he opened a clinic earlier this year in Korea. The clinic involves hearing improvement through injection of stem cells, which in itself would be kind of ground-breaking if this was successfully performed somewhere in the world. This doctor, by name of "Shim Minbo" apparently attended at Stanford to lecture about hearing loss treatment (as can be seen at the site of Heller Lab, here:https://hellerlab.stanford.edu/2014/04/lab-meeting-with-good-food/). I would like to validate if this doctor "Shim Minbo" is indeed involved with said clinic (by name of "Cheong-min clinic") and indeed performing stem-cell treatments there.

I'm skeptical, yet interested. If there is any truth to this, this man is doing ground-breaking work yet no one apparently heard of it, which is strange (and hence I am skeptical).
 
#35
"Nobody likes the guy that finishes first." If he has truly spoken at Stanford, it's hard not to legitimize him to some extent. And I truly believe we have enough information and technology we will start to see discoveries like this.
 
#36
In the film at 2:55 they explain that they signed a contract with the minister of health of Khabarovsk in Russia to learn them how to apply the treatment. So soon there will be a second clinic as well.
 
#37
have emailed with sthe clinic, and the told me about treatment more or less:
It depends on your age, the degree of hearing loss.
If your ages are under 50, you can feel improvement with 2weeks after our treatment.
There could be individual differences.
We use adult stem cells and growth factors.
The cost of treatment will be 6,000US dollars.
We offer 2 shots of treatment with that price.
Each shots should be done at least 1week apart.
So, its better to stay in Korea for that period.
What do you think? Is it a good idea to visit Korea or better to wait some time nd see how this technic improve?
 
#39
RODRIGO said:
have emailed with sthe clinic, and the told me about treatment more or less:
It depends on your age, the degree of hearing loss.
If your ages are under 50, you can feel improvement with 2weeks after our treatment.
There could be individual differences.
We use adult stem cells and growth factors.
The cost of treatment will be 6,000US dollars.
We offer 2 shots of treatment with that price.
Each shots should be done at least 1week apart.
So, its better to stay in Korea for that period.
What do you think? Is it a good idea to visit Korea or better to wait some time nd see how this technic improve?
Click to expand...
Someone wealthy enough and desparate enough here could try it :)
 
#40
I'm so excited to see where this leads over the next year. If it proves true, I have the time and money to go to Korea. Just need more evidence, I'm only 32 and healthy except for my dang hearing.
 
#41
I am very skeptical that the korean clinic is legitimate. In fact, I am going to say it isn't. Very sure.

1. If it was a credible clinic, why would it have such a poor site design? They could pay someone enough money to make it look good if they had a reputation. Could also use Wordpress.
2. It offered 50% off at one point. That's ridiculous for something like this.
3. The writing style and English is embarrassingly bad. Surely they could have hired a skilled translater.

If Dr. Lin is legitimate, and that site is using his name, he should be notified.
 
#43
#46
Yeah looking at the website it seems most patient have like 20 dB improvment. For sure he'll tell you to renew the treatment to have better results...
 
#48
Foncky said:
Almost no improvement (1 to 2 dB) in the high frequencies (6000 - 8000Hz) in the video.
Click to expand...
Yes. And that is the first area in the cochlea that is reached by the drug.
Also 1-2 dB is too accurate. It could easily be 0 or even -??dB.
I understand that it is not possible to get a higher accuracy than +/- 5 dB.

But if they are able to get improvement and the workings of this drug is reproducible, it is a first.
 
#50
Reinier said:
Yes. And that is the first area in the cochlea that is reached by the drug.
Also 1-2 dB is too accurate. It could easily be 0 or even -??dB.
I understand that it is not possible to get a higher accuracy than +/- 5 dB.

But if they are able to get improvement and the workings of this drug is reproducible, it is a first.
Click to expand...
Yes, completely, the margin of error is between 5 and 10dB as far as the traditional hearing test is concerned.

20dB would be life changing for me too, but from 4000Hz and above (60dB loss @6000Hz)
 
#53
If he knew that he has a lot of potential customers here maybe he would take one of us in for free to prove it works haha
 
#55
Hearing%20Improvement_zpsjwia3oki.jpg


This diagram in the film at 1:02 shows avarage improvement (mean) so that could differ with 1dB though it is unlikely that it is significant.
 
#56
That's what I got from the Korean clinic with regards to my Tinnitus:
"Dear Michal,
I think I can help you .
We are doing regenerative treatment for the destroyed hearing sensing cells.
Once your destroyed sensory receptors are recovered, your annoying tinnitus will disappear.
Maybe your are young , and your hearing loss is not so severe.-it means you have still many health cells which can be used as alternatives for the destroyed cells.
So in your cases, there are possibilities to recover from tinnitus.

We uses your own growth factors and stem cell extracted from your blood , bone marrow , or fat tissue.
And we will check your nasal cavity to see whether there are some abnormalities which should be corrected.
If there are some problems like rhinitis, you have to fix it to make your E- tubes function well.
I recommend you to stay in Korea for 2weaks for the receiving enough treatment.
You have to take treatment for 4 times. , about 3days apart.
It will take about 2hours per 1 time's treatment.
The cost of treatment will be 6,000 US dollars.
And you are under 40 yet, so good results are expected."

So in general he claims he can probabely fix my tinnitus. What is your opinion about that, is it worth to give it a try or better wait another years to gather more proof about treatment efficacy? 6000USD is not super expensive, of course one have to consider flight and accomodation which may in total reach say 10000USD. If I was sure he can help me I could easily afford the cost, open question is if indeed the procedure has potential to help.
 
#57
It seems quite serious. There's no rush, so why not waiting 6 months or a year ? We'll see if it's still running.

I'll consider it. It's clearly not expensive compared to what ATEOS or others did.

Does it work ? But also, what are the risks ? Those are two very important questions. Intra-tympanic injection is not something easy to perform.
 
#58
spingee said:
for me 20db improvment would be life changing
Click to expand...

I bet for a lot of Tinnitus sufferers that would mean a big change. Apart from the "hidden hearing loss" that might be potentially resolved as they also claim to provide "growth factors". We have no objective way of measuring improvement in that area yet though, but it might be enough to be beneficial for Tinnitus.

I have a few issues with this clinic and its methods though;
  • Hearing tests are only provided up till 8kHz. As we all know, the hearing loss responsible for Tinnitus might very well be above 8kHz, so it would be interesting to do an extended audiometric test on these patients. This is apparently not being done. From what it looks like, the effects in the higher frequencies seem to be lesser (6kHz-8kHz). I wonder what this will do for even higher frequencies, as those frequencies are at the very most base of the cochlea.
  • As this is one of the first patient populations this treatment is performed on; wouldn't it be interesting to perform more tests, like ABR and DPOE? It would be interesting to record results before and after treatment for scientific reasons alone.
  • I see no mention anywhere of using standardised questionnaires (THI) to at least get some idea about Tinnitus improvement. Most statements are quite simple, like "tinnitus much improved for patient". This makes it sound less credible to me.
  • We have no proper diagnostic tools to objectively measure Tinnitus and/or hidden hearing loss yet. It is thus hard to quantify any improvements. The clinic mentioned the use of growth factors, and this might prove to be more important in Tinnitus resolution than actual audiometric hearing improvement, however it feels like a "hail mary" to me without any proper measurement. How do we differentiate between real improvement and possible placebo effects? Of course this might not be important for the most bothered patients; as long as there is improvement, right? And I would agree that's indeed the most important thing.
  • Another user here mentioned they offer discounts. This sounds kind of unusual to me and sounds like a marketing trick.
  • The "almost all patients improved" statement seems too good to be true and, again, sounds more like a marketing trick. Most interventions carry at least some risk, even if they are pretty low. We know from the AM-101 trials that some intratympanic injections apparently went a little awry, resulting in some complications for patients. There is no mention of such risk here.
  • The website, data gathering methods and data representation on it look kind of messy and "unscientific".
  • There is no mention or information on the website about the actual treatment, how it works and what the procedure looks like. Most of these informations have to be obtained through e-mail, while that would be perfect information for a website.
  • I personally cannot find mention of a "Dr. Shim Minbo" in research papers or anywhere else. There are social media profiles and a mention on a Stanford University website, but apart from that not much else.
I personally would hold my horses for a while and see where this goes. Again; it might very well be legitimate. From this point in time it is hard to determine whether it's worth throwing 6000USD (excluding flight and accommodation) at it though.
 
#59
With all due respect, I think someone should contact Dr. Lin about the website before anyone starts investing their time in what the site promises. The website looks like a scam to me. If Dr. Lin is legitimate, and they are using his name without his permission, he should know.

I'm 90% sure this is illegitimate. How would payment be processed? Before, or after? What else would they want from you?

Again, I am skeptical research so serious would have such a lousy website. If they wanted to be known, they would have better quality, and would do more advertising and press. 50% off discounts also sound ridiculous, that's no way to market something that one would expect would have such a high demand for. This is manipulation.
 

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