South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

#61
Regarding the website a lot of legitimate clinics or institution have very poor websites. I don't understand it as well. I'm a web developer and I know how easy it is to have a decent looking website.

At least the website and the Facebook page isn't filled with fake reviews.
 
#62
Foncky said:
Yes, completely, the margin of error is between 5 and 10dB as far as the traditional hearing test is concerned.

20dB would be life changing for me too, but from 4000Hz and above (60dB loss @6000Hz)
Click to expand...

Would somebody please refer me to the published text that presents the evidence for these claims? I did a quick search for his name on PubMED and Google Scholar with the appropriate keywords but nothing came up. If these astonishing claims have not been published in a reputable, peer-reviewed journal then it seems to me they should really be viewed with an extremely skeptical, critical eye.

I smell snake oil (though I would be very glad to be proven wrong)...
 
#63
It's not necessarily a scam. It might well just be one those asian clinics that perform stem cells injections with no particular scientific research behind.
 
#64
Foncky said:
It's not necessarily a scam. It might well just be one those asian clinics that perform stem cells injections with no particular scientific research behind.
Click to expand...
How can a patient of these clinics know they are receiving REAL stem cells, not some placebo NaCl solution?
 
#65
I see that folks from South Korea figured out way of delivering stem cells "where need to" via injection through ear that as I understand reaches one of the "entrance" points in to cochlea and allows some % of these cells to be able to be dilivered and get that regeneration done ? I haven't heard of such approach yet, I believe this is why this clinic gets results these kind of results. Also, guys, let's remember that if persons stem cells are used - results will vary per person simply because younger they are - stronger they are, I.e. Result is much better. It's also looks like they are shooting some other proteins/minerals as well to enchanted what is being done.

In terms of site - that clinic has decent website that is much different from one we have seen here, but it is all in Korean. Looks like they set this on up "on budget" for foreigners, and I think I know why it is why it looks so unprofessional right now.

This Dr. seems to be one of these "not like everyone else" guy. Based on his interview from video and some text I have read - he is not interested in smacking cochlear implants and hearing aids that don't do much. He is actually first doctor who says that hearing aids do more harm really by killing what is left in your cochlea due to sound enrichment process, so basically if you were badly impaired - with time ur aid will make you deaf.

Now, why website is poorly looking ? Well, first off - they are not sure if people will trust them since no one had success anywhere as close as they claim and patients were local (South Koreans). I understand why they don't have testimonials of foreign patients - they were not setup as an international clinic, however after using their technique on "local" patients they proved that this thing works and now they want to get people from other countries to fly in and spend their money with them.

I mean we as people of the world do tend to think a bit differently as people from other places, however I can tell you that there are numerous clinics with great services which have very pooor websites. It's funny though that they actually do nowadays slowly upgrade them but it's not their number one priority, you know why ? These clinics become known in what they do not because of pretty website but rather power of "word". People talk and recommend places, that's best advertisement possible.

P.S.

I am wondering if someone from here will bee shooting over there ? Perhaps we could "team up"?

Also, South Korea is well known travel destination for a lot of people world wide that need medical help with other things, and a lot of Russians go there. Interestingly enough - Russian version of their website is much better written than English.(also have FB page) Possibly they are aiming to get their "typical customers" get threated first.

P.S.S.

Sorry for typo's, writing from tablet ;/
 
#66
gotyoubynuts said:
How can a patient of these clinics know they are receiving REAL stem cells, not some placebo NaCl solution?
Click to expand...
I believe they answered one of our members and said that they use brown marrow or fat. Not sure which one is better here and how they determine that but that's what the answer is. I will try to email this clinic to see if we could get a bit more info on this.
 
#67
Folks,

I shall express myself regards"big pharma" and what i typically hear.

Everything regards "big pharma" not allowing real cures and etc. to hit market is true, but to extend only. "Big pharma" really is only in US and tied with FDA. it is true that treatment is much more expensive and financially better for them rather than cure for pretty much any condition, however there is big BUT. There are other research centers, clinics outside of US which dont care about FDA.

Example: spinal surgeries. in USA standard procidure is damn spinal fusion, no disk replacement. people that face this problem fly to other counties (mostly europe) to get this done and pretty much forget that they had this problem. Or big sport stars here in US would fly to germany/etc to get their cartillage reatored becausw in US there was no such thing available at the time, now they are slowly starting doing that stuff here as well.

What i am trying to say is: there are bunch of companies out there in the word that do experiment with hearing restoration and etc. and is just a matter of time when they will find first trully effective procidure that restores hearing (therfore curing tinnitus as symptom...well if its NIHL hearing loss in general, maybe not acoustic neuroma or something like that at the beginning).

We now see that these folks from South Korea took stem cells and enjected (i guess still do) in to cochlea of their patiens. this is pretty straight forward way of delivering these cells in to proper spot compairing to ones that they are trying to come up with at lets say Stamford University. yes it might not be the most delicate way, however who care if that really works? and it looks like they have experimented with local patients and results seems to be promising. so far only caviar for me is that there are no people from other world who underwent this procidure to get proper feedback.

If this will stay active untill nezt year and we will see more info from them - ill consider going there and getting it done.

I am young, have a lot of things to do in my life and have to get rid of this nasty condition.

It would be actually cool to see if anyone else from this forum would like to go as well ? we could go in a small group.
 
#68
lolkas said:
Folks,

I shall express myself regards"big pharma" and what i typically hear.

Everything regards "big pharma" not allowing real cures and etc. to hit market is true, but to extend only. "Big pharma" really is only in US and tied with FDA. it is true that treatment is much more expensive and financially better for them rather than cure for pretty much any condition, however there is big BUT. There are other research centers, clinics outside of US which dont care about FDA.

Example: spinal surgeries. in USA standard procidure is damn spinal fusion, no disk replacement. people that face this problem fly to other counties (mostly europe) to get this done and pretty much forget that they had this problem. Or big sport stars here in US would fly to germany/etc to get their cartillage reatored becausw in US there was no such thing available at the time, now they are slowly starting doing that stuff here as well.

What i am trying to say is: there are bunch of companies out there in the word that do experiment with hearing restoration and etc. and is just a matter of time when they will find first trully effective procidure that restores hearing (therfore curing tinnitus as symptom...well if its NIHL hearing loss in general, maybe not acoustic neuroma or something like that at the beginning).

We now see that these folks from South Korea took stem cells and enjected (i guess still do) in to cochlea of their patiens. this is pretty straight forward way of delivering these cells in to proper spot compairing to ones that they are trying to come up with at lets say Stamford University. yes it might not be the most delicate way, however who care if that really works? and it looks like they have experimented with local patients and results seems to be promising. so far only caviar for me is that there are no people from other world who underwent this procidure to get proper feedback.

If this will stay active untill nezt year and we will see more info from them - ill consider going there and getting it done.

I am young, have a lot of things to do in my life and have to get rid of this nasty condition.

It would be actually cool to see if anyone else from this forum would like to go as well ? we could go in a small group.
Click to expand...
If I get some evidence, reliable info that this treatment works, I´ll go with you in a flash!
The hearing loss that causes my T is in the 10-13 kHz area, and according to some earlier posted chart that reflects lesser effect the higher the loss is in frequency, it feels not to encouraging at the moment.
 
#69
It's going to be veeerrrrry interesting over the next few years if people are starting to go to these clinics. And if these clinics are opening in the USA, that's awesome.

If you aren't excited about this, you're never going to be happy. Lol.
 
#70
I don't understand the stem cell science, and I am skeptical about that Korean clinic. If they are legitimate, great, but they need to be verified somehow. I also hope that they have a trustworthy paying model, one someone can get into comfortably without being scammed.

I don't know how risky stem cells are, and how they work. Would they have to be programmed specifically to regenerate the cells within the ear? Are there risks like cancer? Can the cell programmings grow in the wrong place?
 
#71
Artemis2K said:
I don't understand the stem cell science, and I am skeptical about that Korean clinic. If they are legitimate, great, but they need to be verified somehow. I also hope that they have a trustworthy paying model, one someone can get into comfortably without being scammed.

I don't know how risky stem cells are, and how they work. Would they have to be programmed specifically to regenerate the cells within the ear? Are there risks like cancer? Can the cell programmings grow in the wrong place?
Click to expand...

It will take some time for that clinic to build a trustworthy reputation since they are only really known in south korea and countries citizens of which travel there for medical reasons (their own counties dont have as good of medical service as there for example).

Now in terms of stem cells. Technically stem cell is a "building block" that our body stores in different places and qty's. Our body releases them on to our blood on regulair basis so that everything gets refreshed (skin, hair, nails etc). Now, they are released in very small qty's and are being replaced at the same time. It is about 25 years ago when such discovery in medical world occured and they figured out that this cell can basically do anything, problem is (and still kinda is) - how to tell it what to be and where to go.

Will simple orthopedic cases such as arthitis and other spine/joint issues it is simple - they get "naked" strm cells and put them in to problematic joint. Du to fact that there is some sort of inflamation/famage going on - stem cells react to that environment and act as repair material for that. Very legit question you have asked - how can we be sure that these cells won't turn to cancer cells ? Answer is - medicine does not know that yet, i.e. cannot guarantee if you will shoot 100 million of harvested stem cells in to your blood througb IV - you wont end up with cancer of some sort. This is pretty much why most of medical instotutions are holdong off on their trials with stem cells, they dont have 100% controll over them yet.

Based on what i have seen, simple appliactions of stem cells in to spine/joints has pretty much 0% chance of giving any sort of complicationsblike cancer or what not.

I've heard only once that some one went over to get stem cell treatment through IV and end up having cancer (not sure if this person already had it but never diagnosed ?).

Basically what i am trying to say is:
1) stem cells work as repair material in environment they reside in.
2) they need to be properly "delivered" to location where repair needs to be done - risks of complications seems to be close to none.

At this moment i think biggest question in regars stem cells in general is:

a)controll and manipulation over them
b)delivery
c)efficiency

If abc will be covered - stem cells will be able to cure whole bunch of disorders/etc.
 
#72
grate_biff said:
If I get some evidence, reliable info that this treatment works, I´ll go with you in a flash!
The hearing loss that causes my T is in the 10-13 kHz area, and according to some earlier posted chart that reflects lesser effect the higher the loss is in frequency, it feels not to encouraging at the moment.
Click to expand...

Hey,
I looked through their archive and it looks like all frequencies do vary on case-by-case there. some people get 50db just from one shot, but i saw quite a few with 8k loss and it was brought back up.

It very well might be that hair cells that are reaponsible for high frquencies are much more fragile and take longer time to grow/recover ?

My hiss is in same range as yours and is not catched on regulair audiogram.

We need to see how are they going to be practicing this until summer and if its all ok.
 
#73
I just emailed Megan Ealy from the previous links posted in this thread. Hopefully she responds and we can get to the bottom of this site.

Also, question: If Stem Cells are that important, would redirecting them from original purpose also cause a consequence, or is it too early to tell?
 
#76
spingee said:
I just dont believe in injecting stem cells and everything gets miracolously cured.
It would be already known
Maybe some scars or simple tissue but not whole organs or nervous system... yet
Click to expand...
I guess you could say that stem cells are what antibiotics and vaccines were in the beginning. Also, if you looked at a lot of the articles related to neurogenesis on Science Daily, you would be amazed. Yet, I still have a cautious optimism towards stem cells.
 
#77
spingee said:
I just dont believe in injecting stem cells and everything gets miracolously cured.
It would be already known
Maybe some scars or simple tissue but not whole organs or nervous system... yet
Click to expand...

I agree with you, however some time ago no one could even imagine that we will have electicity (light from a bulb LOL), leave a side having technology we have right now.

Just look around and you will find that all best we have right now already existed in nature, it just needed to be properly used/applied.

Same thing with stem cells. we just discovered their potential, now need to figure out on how to manipulate and deliver them to right places.

Just for you to know - stemcells were already used in restoration of spinal cord and brain function. we are far away from growing entire organs, however fixing what is broken - pretty sure on close quarters!
 
#78
I would love for the day where it would be possible to have -10 dB hearing capabilities through stem cell injection. I remember eavesdropping to be rather entertaining, and if I could do that in an advanced level, great. xD
 
#79
...I am starting to have the notion that this English Korean Clinic site is legitimate. Now if I can only just get Ealy's attention... >.<
 
#82
Megan Ealy seems to be the only way I can actually validate the website's legitimacy, so if she answers my email and says it is real, that would be amazing.
 
#84
I have the cash (years of savings from working) and if this clinic is genuine; I will hop on a plane right away. But I am skeptical like everyone else on this thread. To those who know how bad my hearing is (severe left ear, profound right ear), this clinic seems like an dream come true to regain my hearing but I do have doubts.

If they are using stem cells to great effect and have successful patients to prove their thesis; my question is why other world leading institutions are still in research protocol. Dr Marcelo Rivolta has made enmassed an huge level of data regarding stem cells since 2000. Why are some clinics still ensure but this Korean clinic reckons they have smashed barriers.
 
#85
spingee said:
Maybe we could crowdfound someone brave from this forum to try that korean clinic[/QUO
Click to expand...
Anonymous2929 said:
I have the cash (years of savings from working) and if this clinic is genuine; I will hop on a plane right away. But I am skeptical like everyone else on this thread. To those who know how bad my hearing is (severe left ear, profound right ear), this clinic seems like an dream come true to regain my hearing but I do have doubts.

If they are using stem cells to great effect and have successful patients to prove their thesis; my question is why other world leading institutions are still in research protocol. Dr Marcelo Rivolta has made enmassed an huge level of data regarding stem cells since 2000. Why are some clinics still ensure but this Korean clinic reckons they have smashed barriers.
Click to expand...

Same for me, I have savings to pursue this treatment and treat my T, but I have big doubts about safety and efficacy of the procedure. They said they use intratympanic injection to deliver stem cells, which also carries certain risks.
 
#87
spingee said:
I also have saving, i would even buy multiple shots until zero Db HL even if i get broke.
My point was someone brave who would undergo risks for greater good.
Click to expand...
Maybe for those of us who can't stand the symptoms any longer, it's time to accept that experimental treatments may be the only way to get better quite quickly.

I personally can't wait an "official" treatment for 20 years I think.
 
#88
@Anonymous2929

I will also hop on the first plan right away, If a cure was possible, whatever it might cost. I think leading institutions are still in research, because they can not controls the stem cells 100 yet. And the risk is still substantial.
 
#89
@Anonymous2929 because big institutions and research grouos have strick protocol to follow and they cannot test on humans. Experemental treatment on the other hand is basically same thong they do with mice now by injecting stem cells in to their cochlea.

I beleive it was enough evidence for South Korean researcher to implement it on patiens and seems like it worked as he expected (even if level of restoration from single procidure vary on case-by-case basis). No harm being reported, looks like wost case it won't reatore that much with regulair amounts of injections and more will be required to get good results. (I.e. some one will need 5 shots in order to get results like other one will get from 3 shots)
 
#90
Anonymous2929 said:
I have the cash (years of savings from working) and if this clinic is genuine; I will hop on a plane right away. But I am skeptical like everyone else on this thread. To those who know how bad my hearing is (severe left ear, profound right ear), this clinic seems like an dream come true to regain my hearing but I do have doubts.

If they are using stem cells to great effect and have successful patients to prove their thesis; my question is why other world leading institutions are still in research protocol. Dr Marcelo Rivolta has made enmassed an huge level of data regarding stem cells since 2000. Why are some clinics still ensure but this Korean clinic reckons they have smashed barriers.
Click to expand...
Lawsuits. Even if the signed document ensures protection from medical risks of complications, someone can tank a company with multiple lawsuits because their skin turn orange from the procedure when they did something unrelated and risk prone.
 

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