MemberThank you so much. I really appreciate that Artemis2k.
I think he is a genuine ENT as well, and perhaps like you said unorthodox.
Tnx very much.
I think he is a genuine ENT as well, and perhaps like you said unorthodox.
Tnx very much.
South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
In the inner ear there are little hair like cells that vibrate and send the sound signal to the brain.
If tinnitus is based on loss of sensory cells due to ototoxicity, or noise, or perhaps other loss of haircells then:
1. The hair cells don't grow back naturally and our brains are missing the input and what's left is the perception of tinnitus.
2.methods have been discovered to induce the hair cells to regenerate and restore function, which is hearing, which will probably make the tinnitus go away.
3. there are several posts across this website showing how they have achieved this
4. there's been research showing mesenchymal stem cells restore hearing when injected into the eardrum of deafened animals
5. a dude that runs the heller lab said in a video presentation that stem cells implanted in the inner ear regenerate hair cells and the nerves reattach.
6. there have been human trials showing the use of IFG1 can also restore hearing and the researchers speculated that it is from hair cell regeneration
7. It's also been shown that activating the erbb2 receptor in inner ear stem cells regenerates hearing, and EGF activates this pathway.
8. Dr. Minbo Shim's patent states that he uses PRP which contain growth factors including IGF1 and EGF
9. I also believe that he uses mesenchymal stem cells from the blood as aart of his treatment.
Based on all of that I think there is sufficient evidence for this to be valid. Now we just need to make contact with someone that's tried it.
humptydumpty69
Member
I don't think that I have much factual information to contribute to the previous posts. As far as the quantity or derivation of the stem cells he uses, it is unknown. I just grazed through the patent to confirm, I don't believe he ever said that he uses Mesenchymal Stem Cells, I believe that was our assumption; and I think it is an accurate one. Perhaps he said so in a Skype call? Regardless, the below quote is the record I found of Shim stating he uses stem cells.
Yes, the PRP is extracted via blood, the patient's blood is put in a centrifuge and separated, then prepared for viscosity. As far as the stem cells, there are many sources for these. He could be extracting from the blood in a similar fashion to the PRP; but when stem cells are extracted from the blood, it is one of the least potent forms of SC. He could have donor stem cells, or he could be farming and harvesting population doublings in his own lab. Besides the physical source of the stem cells, as of right now I believe we can only speculate on the anatomical source as well. Like I wrote previously, it could be blood, could be umbilical cord, placenta, very doubtful it is embryonic, etcetera. This is something that we should inquire about unless someone knows this information and it has eluded me.
The following patent excerpt states how Shim determines quantity of treatment:
"The effective amount may be properly selected depending on a subject, and determined depending on the severity of disease, a patient's age, body weight, health conditions, gender, and drug sensitivity, administration time, administration route, excretion rate, treatment period, and drugs blended with or co-administered with the composition of the present invention, and other factors well known in the medical field."
In this thread there has been plenty mention of efficacy in the recent past. I think that it is important to realize that these treatments do work for some, it is more a question of if it will work for your specific and individual injury. ATEOS had a great experience with Mesenchymal Stem Cells, it seems that @EddieA has had a good one with PRP. Lyme unfortunately had an adipose SC procedure that amounted to absolutely nothing; no detriment, no progress. There are others I have spoken to throughout the forum who have undergone the same procedures as success stories', and have had no improvement. I think it is interesting that ATEOS had benefit with laser as well as SC, and it makes me consider that maybe those of us who have had some success with alternative treatment could have some more success with alternative treatment of a greater severity; however those of us who respond to nearly nothing, I think it is safe to wager that they would have no benefit from much of anything that isn't a cure produced by the mainstream industry. Regardless, we will continue to explore the possibilities of this; and if anyone hasn't seen, @EddieA's PRP treatment was only 900 USD; I'm sure that in the foreseeable future we will be in contact with someone who intends to undergo if not Shim, at least a practically positioned PRP clinic for intra-tympanic injections.
Oh yeah... Happy New Year. -_-
Yes, the PRP is extracted via blood, the patient's blood is put in a centrifuge and separated, then prepared for viscosity. As far as the stem cells, there are many sources for these. He could be extracting from the blood in a similar fashion to the PRP; but when stem cells are extracted from the blood, it is one of the least potent forms of SC. He could have donor stem cells, or he could be farming and harvesting population doublings in his own lab. Besides the physical source of the stem cells, as of right now I believe we can only speculate on the anatomical source as well. Like I wrote previously, it could be blood, could be umbilical cord, placenta, very doubtful it is embryonic, etcetera. This is something that we should inquire about unless someone knows this information and it has eluded me.
The following patent excerpt states how Shim determines quantity of treatment:
"The effective amount may be properly selected depending on a subject, and determined depending on the severity of disease, a patient's age, body weight, health conditions, gender, and drug sensitivity, administration time, administration route, excretion rate, treatment period, and drugs blended with or co-administered with the composition of the present invention, and other factors well known in the medical field."
In this thread there has been plenty mention of efficacy in the recent past. I think that it is important to realize that these treatments do work for some, it is more a question of if it will work for your specific and individual injury. ATEOS had a great experience with Mesenchymal Stem Cells, it seems that @EddieA has had a good one with PRP. Lyme unfortunately had an adipose SC procedure that amounted to absolutely nothing; no detriment, no progress. There are others I have spoken to throughout the forum who have undergone the same procedures as success stories', and have had no improvement. I think it is interesting that ATEOS had benefit with laser as well as SC, and it makes me consider that maybe those of us who have had some success with alternative treatment could have some more success with alternative treatment of a greater severity; however those of us who respond to nearly nothing, I think it is safe to wager that they would have no benefit from much of anything that isn't a cure produced by the mainstream industry. Regardless, we will continue to explore the possibilities of this; and if anyone hasn't seen, @EddieA's PRP treatment was only 900 USD; I'm sure that in the foreseeable future we will be in contact with someone who intends to undergo if not Shim, at least a practically positioned PRP clinic for intra-tympanic injections.
Oh yeah... Happy New Year. -_-
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Hopefully by then he will post his papers and have a kit ready. I didn't expect the possibility of having it at home would be so promising. I assumed there would be more work to do. Hopefully someone can adapt. Honestly, though, I am a bit iffy on someone not going through Shim's process. I'd rather wait for someone he "certified". Maybe I am just being too cautious.
humptydumpty69
Member
@Artemis2K,
Personally, I think that I would seriously consider a stateside PRP procedure, no stem cell additions, only if a regionally local clinic was able to make the serum viscous. Without the viscosity, I don't think I will be undergoing a PRP procedure.
Personally, I think that I would seriously consider a stateside PRP procedure, no stem cell additions, only if a regionally local clinic was able to make the serum viscous. Without the viscosity, I don't think I will be undergoing a PRP procedure.
humptydumpty69
Member
You're kidding me, is that not damn near an operation? Not to mention, depending on the individual, basically anyone above 25, the SCs are not nearly as potent when derived from the patient's body; and in the aged/sickly patient (a very decent amount of presbycusis sufferers), using unhealthy MSCs via localized injection is one of the isolated circumstances of tumorigenic potential that I am aware of. I'm really surprised at this; could you please post your source?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I forgot what Shim said about bone marrow. He might have said he only uses it under certain circumstances. I have a feeling he said that under most cases blood was sufficient.
I have been stressed out, and so my memory sucks right now... lol.
I have been stressed out, and so my memory sucks right now... lol.
Bone marrow, if and where from. Important question it would seem for Dr. Shim Skype interview?Operation? Yes, no?
humptydumpty69
Member
I'm not sure where Mentos got this info; @Artemis2K, you are good at digging. Regardless, assuming it is accurate, I have no desire to have a needle in my bone, or a vaccuum in my belly to extract stem cells unless I am positive of efficacy. Blood I would definitely undergo, except for the fact that its potency is so poor.
I'm not sure why Shim isn't using donor cells; from what I understand, there are remarkably low chances of high potency allogenic umbillical MSCs being rejected and recognized as antigenic; and this hypothetical reaction should be nearly innocuous. I believe ATEOS had this happen while undergoing his IV in China, and his reaction resolved in a few days. This subject is definitely something to approach Shim about in the future. Perhaps he knows something that we don't, and he has found that it is necessary to utilize autologous cells? Perhaps utilizing umbilicals would increase the cost for patients so that his clinic would be less accessible? Perhaps he is trying to eliminate the minuscule possibilites of rejection by only utilizing autologous cells?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Well, I have heard so many bad things about donated stem cells, to where they make ne nervous. Perhaps he just doesn't want to risk his patients or be in legal trouble.
humptydumpty69
Member
I'm not trying to be a downer or debate stem cell efficacy; my knowledge on the subject only comes from a couple of books which were intentionaly made accessible to the layman. I think that weaker blood derived stem cells combined with viscous PRP still has plenty of potential. Regardless, Shim seems to be very versatile. An ENT who extracts stem cells; if I'm not mistaken, an adipose extraction is called a "mini-surgery".
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Regardless, many of us are willing to go great lengths to have treatment. I never expected there would be a simple solution. Having my eardrum stabbed scares me more than having bone marrow extracted, but I'd do it if it means I can be whole again.
Good question. But this ain't a joke to laugh at. We have been discussing the treatment of what we know. I'm sure someone will go sooner than later.
You can take the step to go if you have the funds and the passport.
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
Then don't.
"Bone marrow MSCs have greater advantages for clinical use in human patients than other multipotential stem cells, such as embryonic stem cells because MSCs can be collected from the patient's own bone marrow for an autologous transplantation with little physical risk, no rejection risk, and few ethical problems. In the present transplantation, many MSCs were confirmed to have invaded the lateral wall and to have contributed to recovery of hearing loss despite transplantation between different rat strains. Therefore, we expect that autologous transplantation of bone marrow MSCs would be even more effective in treating hearing loss caused by injuries to the cochlear fibrocytes."
SOURCE:
Mesenchymal Stem Cell Transplantation Accelerates Hearing Recovery through the Repair of Injured Cochlear Fibrocytes
American Journal of Pathology, The, 2007-07-01, Volume 171, Issue 1, Pages 214-226, Copyright © 2007 American Society for Investigative Pathology
Am I the only user on this site that has access to subscription based medical journals?
humptydumpty69
Member
I'm not sure what your intention is by quoting me in this post. Of course bone marrow is an adequate option in regard to stem cell, and has been known to have positive outcomes. You could quote any practitioner who advocates whatever cell of choice for different reasons.
If you are convinced of bone marrow derived MSC efficacy, I think you should hop on a plane and let Shim dig in to your marrow.
that's not just "any practitioner". that is peer reviewed article from the American Journal of Pathology.
sorry I wasn't laughing. My only concern is my freq. of 10+khz, that's where my issues are and I'm not sure if this potentially helps with that. Otherwise I'd go.. Maybe i should speak with him
You're one of the good guys and you get my good guy endorsement. @1000 is certainly a good guy as well. Trust me we are all on the same teeeeeeeeeeeeeam.
Could you explain Mentor, elaborate please. You had a discusssion with Shim?
Can everyone stop daring people to go, can we be civil please, and no rude jokes...it really isn't funny as 1000 said.
It seems pretty clear that the Skype interview, if it goes well....can answer all of the speculative questions and assumptions about Shim's cocktail. This remains the question that my fellow sufferers are conjecturing at, hypothetising, and speculating about. As I said before, what distinguishes this treatment from Edddie A's?
Are the special ingredients sourced from one's blood?...sounds like they are, if not from where and how?
How long does it take to heal up, before one can go on a plane? As we are not Korean and will fly.
When you are ready...politely ask these questions...and then maybe...if we get answers...someone with "funds" will go.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
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