Completely agree. I'm suffering but not willing to shell out 5k for a set of hearing aids that will maybe work. and I don't have any normal range hearing loss, just high frequency.
South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
Completely agree. I'm suffering but not willing to shell out 5k for a set of hearing aids that will maybe work. and I don't have any normal range hearing loss, just high frequency.
There was a recent documentary "My beautiful broken brain" where the girl had a major set back after tms.
MemberThanks for the info. I thought we had crossed that bridge already, because my ENT doctor was already suggesting something like the SoundHawk when I first showed up with hearing problems. There's a lot of assistive devices (for hearing) out there that you can get without talking to a doctor, even "in ear" devices that look just like a hearing aid.
You know, the hardware in hearing aids is really not that sophisticated. It's just a bunch of hardware DSP filters. Their challenge is to be small (so they can fit discretely obviously), and power efficient (because there isn't that much energy you can tap in such a small volume battery). Look at these disruptors (iHear). Read up on it here too.
Maybe there will be some relaxing of FDA rules or painful approval process.
At any rate, it's a good trend.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Christian78
Member
- Dec 17, 2013
- 965
- Tinnitus Since
- (Sep 2013)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- progressive tinnitus, time of expiring in next 3-6 months
All i know @snow86 told me he decided to end up himself last month i dare not to write him, as i got into severe pains last 4 days, new tinnitus level... terible.. anyway snow has really bad noise and sounds all over spectrum after RTMS
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I just asked the cmc clinic in Korea about payment conditions for the treatment, that's what I got as an answer"
"If you dont' have visa, we will help you get the visa, and in that case, you have to pay 80% of cost first.
and the remnant cost have to be payed just before treatment.
If you have visa, we take 20% of cost as a reservation fee when you set your date. (should be made at least 1 months before your arrival)
and the remnant cost have to be payed just before treatment. "
Somehow I don't like the reservation prepayment approach, I smell a scam here...
"If you dont' have visa, we will help you get the visa, and in that case, you have to pay 80% of cost first.
and the remnant cost have to be payed just before treatment.
If you have visa, we take 20% of cost as a reservation fee when you set your date. (should be made at least 1 months before your arrival)
and the remnant cost have to be payed just before treatment. "
Somehow I don't like the reservation prepayment approach, I smell a scam here...
I`ve been told same. This is quite same approach that a lot of clinics have in general. I mean 20% upfront seems reasonable, i am not sure about 80% though.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I don't know what to make of him. It feels like he is legitimate. He sure has a lot of digital footprints and is rather public from what I have seen so far. I don't think that if he was scamming people with fraud results, he would be so open and public. It's my understanding that South Korean government really takes fraud seriously.
He goes by "updatemed" on Twitter, and has that as a url redirect (updatemed.com), and other things. There is that saying of "If it's too good to be true, then it likely isn't", but as I said he is rather public and seems to have actual history as a clinician.
Links I know of so far:
https://hellerlab.stanford.edu/2014/04/lab-meeting-with-good-food/
http://m.blog.naver.com/PostList.nhn?blogId=medsem77
http://goldnose.co.kr/main/index.html
http://updatemed.koreafree.co.kr/main/index.html
http://cmclinics.com
http://updatemed-textcube.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-12-15T21:15:00+09:00&max-results=7
(@updatemed) https://twitter.com/updatemed?s=09
https://www.google.com/maps/place/S...2!3m1!1s0x357c909179308d63:0xbbfb8308617b8684
https://m.youtube.com/user/updatemed
In my email exchanges with him, he said that because my hearing loss was near normal, he would use the full one treatment cost for both ears. If he was trying to scam me, I would think he wouldn't ever say such a thing. If I was a scam artist I would rip off someone at complete price, no matter what the hearing loss level was, and I wouldn't offer 50% off sales an entire month in October either.
Based on what I have read, South Korea does not take kindly to fraud, and again, he is rather public compared to how I would think a scam artist would operate. He's even using his own name. At this point I would feel weird not to believe him, but I am trying to investigate him anyway. He is dangerously open for someone possibly intending to commit medical fraud, so I have no idea.
I wish that I knew someone who spoke Korean so we could completely get to the bottom of this. I tried searching things I translated on the Korean Google, but that seems to not work.
The moment I validate this, and prove his complete legitimacy, is the moment I start saving and talk to my family about someone going with me. I am sick of this loud tinnitus and disorienting unbalanced hearing.
He goes by "updatemed" on Twitter, and has that as a url redirect (updatemed.com), and other things. There is that saying of "If it's too good to be true, then it likely isn't", but as I said he is rather public and seems to have actual history as a clinician.
Links I know of so far:
https://hellerlab.stanford.edu/2014/04/lab-meeting-with-good-food/
http://m.blog.naver.com/PostList.nhn?blogId=medsem77
http://goldnose.co.kr/main/index.html
http://updatemed.koreafree.co.kr/main/index.html
http://cmclinics.com
http://updatemed-textcube.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-12-15T21:15:00+09:00&max-results=7
(@updatemed) https://twitter.com/updatemed?s=09
https://www.google.com/maps/place/S...2!3m1!1s0x357c909179308d63:0xbbfb8308617b8684
https://m.youtube.com/user/updatemed
In my email exchanges with him, he said that because my hearing loss was near normal, he would use the full one treatment cost for both ears. If he was trying to scam me, I would think he wouldn't ever say such a thing. If I was a scam artist I would rip off someone at complete price, no matter what the hearing loss level was, and I wouldn't offer 50% off sales an entire month in October either.
Based on what I have read, South Korea does not take kindly to fraud, and again, he is rather public compared to how I would think a scam artist would operate. He's even using his own name. At this point I would feel weird not to believe him, but I am trying to investigate him anyway. He is dangerously open for someone possibly intending to commit medical fraud, so I have no idea.
I wish that I knew someone who spoke Korean so we could completely get to the bottom of this. I tried searching things I translated on the Korean Google, but that seems to not work.
The moment I validate this, and prove his complete legitimacy, is the moment I start saving and talk to my family about someone going with me. I am sick of this loud tinnitus and disorienting unbalanced hearing.
Sorry I have to agree with you.
I keep an open mind about it, but a lot of scammers out there preying on everybody they can, including us.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
If he really is a scammer, he will be screwed. I think he's far too public for him to last vey long. He isn't world news public, but he is public enough to where if he was found out to be fake, his whole scheme would spiral out of control and he would be in deep humiliation.
I'm pretty sure he is an actual ENT. He did appear on that Stanford blog after all. He has videos from 7 years ago on YouTube that seem to be about being an ENT. So if he was an ENT, he would be making enough money to where being a scam artist would be stupid and pointless.
I don't think you're asking the right question guys.
The important question right now is : is an stem cells injection into the middle ear safe and possibly efficient in the year 2016 ?
If yes, all right, we'll find a legit doctor who is able to do it in the proper way. I don't care if it's not Minbo Shim, we'll find the one.
But for now the risk is huge, both financially and physically. Saw the woman who became blind because she tried a stem cells injection into her eyes ?
By the way, Minbo Shim gives the same answer to everyone (it's always 6000$, no matter how many injections you'd need) and he replies to emails himself ? Come one. A world class top notch stem cells ENT should be busy working in the lab, right ? I can be wrong though...
The important question right now is : is an stem cells injection into the middle ear safe and possibly efficient in the year 2016 ?
If yes, all right, we'll find a legit doctor who is able to do it in the proper way. I don't care if it's not Minbo Shim, we'll find the one.
But for now the risk is huge, both financially and physically. Saw the woman who became blind because she tried a stem cells injection into her eyes ?
By the way, Minbo Shim gives the same answer to everyone (it's always 6000$, no matter how many injections you'd need) and he replies to emails himself ? Come one. A world class top notch stem cells ENT should be busy working in the lab, right ? I can be wrong though...
I think the last part doesn't mean anything. Some people here recieved answer from Lieberman and Rivolta... If you have good will you always find time to reply to your email...
I got answers from top searchers too. But they had nothing to sell to me and they were not doing the work of a secretary...
How is it logical that Shim told me I would have to pay "only" 6000$ for 4 treatments (4 injections in each ear) ?
Even if Shim is legit, I don't feel like I can trust him enough to give him my ears, considering the risk. Not for now anyway.
An intra-tympanic injection is something...
How is it logical that Shim told me I would have to pay "only" 6000$ for 4 treatments (4 injections in each ear) ?
Even if Shim is legit, I don't feel like I can trust him enough to give him my ears, considering the risk. Not for now anyway.
An intra-tympanic injection is something...
I don`t think he replies to emails himself, possibly some but mostly by his assistant. Since his findings were that there are no "stable" results (lets say each injection is guaranteed to gain 15db across all frequencies and etc) everyone starts with $6000
Its like when you to get cataract removed - does not matter how bad it is, costs same per eye (except lens which is material) for all. I don`t see anything that will make me nervous regards him saying that 2 procedures will cost $6000 for everyone.
I got same pricing (4 injection each ear), so you not only one and i think it is standard for what he asks.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
As previously stated, he doesn't really use stem cells. He uses growth factors. This is just speculation, but I think that's related to things like nt-3 and bdnf. I haven't asked.
I think what he said to me is different. He said that because of my near-normal hearing, he would do the other ear with no additional cost, I am guessing using the other half of my blood/plasma/whatever samples. So I figured that I would get two injections within 15 days during October when that Sales Festa 50% off thing is going on, making it $3,000 per injectiom. Two shots SUPPOSEDLY would restore my hearing back to complete normal.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I think does reply. His replies are short. I also had conversations with him about other things such as LLLT.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Wait until October of next year. It will be $3,000 per treatment.
...Wait a minute, I can get more out of treatment than I thought I could? I thought it would cost me more than that. Sounds beautiful. I have been stressing on how I would save up to pay for the treatments, if I really don't have to spend an extra $3,000 that would be lovely.
I would be curious to see how Dr. Shim would respond to questions related to the methodology behind his technique.
As of now it is understood that the scala media, the part of the cochlea which stores the inner hair cells, is filled with a liquid that has a high concentration of potassium. Unfortunately, no stem cells can survive in this liquid and as such it is a large hurdle that must be overcome in order to achieve stem cell regeneration / delivery to the inner hair cells. If he is just injecting these cells into the middle ear with a "set-it-and-forget-it" attitude, I wouldn't trust it for a second.
I think as patients we have the right to know what is happening to our bodies when we undergo a medical operation, and until the function that this treatment uses is explained to us, I would be extremely skeptical.
Side note: This research, ironically, comes from the Korean Audiological Society... So maybe... just maybe... The Koreans are onto something...
As of now it is understood that the scala media, the part of the cochlea which stores the inner hair cells, is filled with a liquid that has a high concentration of potassium. Unfortunately, no stem cells can survive in this liquid and as such it is a large hurdle that must be overcome in order to achieve stem cell regeneration / delivery to the inner hair cells. If he is just injecting these cells into the middle ear with a "set-it-and-forget-it" attitude, I wouldn't trust it for a second.
I think as patients we have the right to know what is happening to our bodies when we undergo a medical operation, and until the function that this treatment uses is explained to us, I would be extremely skeptical.
Side note: This research, ironically, comes from the Korean Audiological Society... So maybe... just maybe... The Koreans are onto something...
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
He has stated he doesn't rely on stem cells, but growth factor.I would be curious to see how Dr. Shim would respond to questions related to the methodology behind his technique.
As of now it is understood that the scala media, the part of the cochlea which stores the inner hair cells, is filled with a liquid that has a high concentration of potassium. Unfortunately, no stem cells can survive in this liquid and as such it is a large hurdle that must be overcome in order to achieve stem cell regeneration / delivery to the inner hair cells. If he is just injecting these cells into the middle ear with a "set-it-and-forget-it" attitude, I wouldn't trust it for a second.
I think as patients we have the right to know what is happening to our bodies when we undergo a medical operation, and until the function that this treatment uses is explained to us, I would be extremely skeptical.
Side note: This research, ironically, comes from the Korean Audiological Society... So maybe... just maybe... The Koreans are onto something...
That's interesting. A growth factor delivered to the middle ear to promote inner ear hair cell regeneration? Is there any further reading/research about this technique?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Well, nt-3 is a growth factor, I think. At least that's what I got from Wikipedia. Americans have had some good results with nt-3 in related to ribbon synapse.
I definitely would like to know more. Current models in the neurological field are taking a look at tinnitus being primarily a neurological phenomenon as opposed to strictly related to the inner ear. If the body is sending false signals to the auditory cortex, irrespective of the damaged inner ear cells, somewhere along (let's say) the cochlear nerve, a growth factor bolstering the neurons along this path may seem feasible in restoring hearing.
It's thought that damage to the inner ear hair cells also depreciates the neural link along the way to the brain, so who knows. Obviously this is all conjecture, I'm just an armchair scientist (my field is computing), but I like to fantasize.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
"
Even though I am not the laser specilalist, I know that any laser can't penerate the ear drum without damaging it.
Any laser can't influence the inner ear without damaging the outer hard bony cortex."
Obvious skepticism.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
To be fair, I think that Heller Lab and other respected places would also show skepticism. Why would they not be promoting that as well if it they believed in it? If top researches endorsed it, would be more available.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Maybe 80% is a reasonable prerequisite if they are going through extra work to get you to be allowed to stay in country with with visa.
I wonder how airbnb works with this kind of stuff.
I wonder how airbnb works with this kind of stuff.
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
