South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
MemberThose don't seem to have the adequate applications with inner ear regeneration, but this is all speculative anyhow!
Are you going to keep probing Dr. Shim, @Artemis2K?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I'm going to try to email him occasionally, yes. However, I do not want to bother him too much. It could help if other people emailed him asking what exactly he used, where to find more information about him and his experience, proof authenticity of his clinic and doctorate (government or otherwise), and maybe more to go by.
I kind of wonder if it is possible to fool Google Maps/Earth into false locations. I don't see how, but Google Earth/Maps have shown satellite imagery of his establishment that have matched his outside photos of the building. I also am confident he really is an ENT because he visited Sanford and they referenced his old clinic in a blog post.
Just thinking off the cuff...even if there is hair regeneration, will these hairs do the job, IE will they either stop the tinnitus or restore sound properly? We are born with the proper hairs and perhaps these new hairs will do nothing.
This is just a total random guess on my part based on no fact, only written to beware of new treatment or possible scammers. As bad as my tinnitus is, my hearing is actually fine, and I would hate to shell out 6K with the possibility of this treatment damaging my hearing or possibly making the tinnitus work.
Sorry to be very skeptical.
This is just a total random guess on my part based on no fact, only written to beware of new treatment or possible scammers. As bad as my tinnitus is, my hearing is actually fine, and I would hate to shell out 6K with the possibility of this treatment damaging my hearing or possibly making the tinnitus work.
Sorry to be very skeptical.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Based off his website, he has had posted results. I am looking at his Korean site now and he posts results just about every other day. Some of them are like 20+ decibel regain. http://m.blog.naver.com/medsem77?currentPage=3 You might have to use a Google Translate add-on to view this, the website viewer from Google Translate site seems to not work at the moment. I forget if Chrome does automatic translate option. I'm using my tablet.
Also beware of those on internet forums and elsewhere who seem to "overly promote" a certain untested procedure.
Scammers love to go on website forums, with different IP addresses, different user names, etc, and pretend that they had this procedure done and it works great, etc, etc, etc.
This is your hearing and your life we're talking about here, and your money...so be skeptical at first, nothing wrong with that, and do some good investigation before risking your money and your health.
I'm not accusing anyone here of being a scammer. All I'm saying is beware that there are scammers out there. In my view, I'd rather be skeptical first, and thoroughly check things out, thoroughly investigate in every way possible, rather than be overly optimistic, and it winds up making things worse, possibly a lot worse.
Scammers love to go on website forums, with different IP addresses, different user names, etc, and pretend that they had this procedure done and it works great, etc, etc, etc.
This is your hearing and your life we're talking about here, and your money...so be skeptical at first, nothing wrong with that, and do some good investigation before risking your money and your health.
I'm not accusing anyone here of being a scammer. All I'm saying is beware that there are scammers out there. In my view, I'd rather be skeptical first, and thoroughly check things out, thoroughly investigate in every way possible, rather than be overly optimistic, and it winds up making things worse, possibly a lot worse.
That's good. but I would like to see independent verified confirmation of the posted information.
Anyone could start a website and post that they've got results about curing cancer, but it wouldn't be true.
Sorry to be skeptical. In something such as this, I am not going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I want to see proof. Anyone else here can do whatever they want, but that's what I want to see before going ahead with it...and believe me...if this procedure actually did work, I would go ahead with it as soon as possible.
Yep, kinda agree. I don't think this forum is good for them. People here are not that "easy", tinnitus terminator an example for that.
Also, if this therapy is PRP-like, it would be rather safe (except injection by itself as procedure) than dangerous. Never heard people having issues after PRP except when it did not work to as expected, but no "harm".
Also, if this therapy is PRP-like, it would be rather safe (except injection by itself as procedure) than dangerous. Never heard people having issues after PRP except when it did not work to as expected, but no "harm".
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
As I said earlier, he has visited Stanford in Heller's lab for a week and has a lot of digital footprints dating back to like 2009. His clinic's location seems to be legitimate, and he seems to be an actual ENT. His YouTube channel has him in 2009 talking about medical stuff, I think mostly related to ENT. He's exposing himself a lot to where if he is a scammer he is putting himself in thin ice. South Korea does not tolerate scam artists.
I could be wrong. He could possibly not be an ENT. He possibly could never have been a clinician at Sunny St. Mary's like that Stanford blog referenced.
I've watched his videos, and paid attention to his blog. There are a lot of interesting things to keep track of.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Oh, sorry. I must have forgot to mention.
I emailed Heller about it, and he did reply. He said that Shim did visit Stanford for about a week.
I also emailed Megan Ealy, and she replied that he was there due to interest of using stem cells as hearing loss treatment.
Sorry for forgetting to mention that, I should have sooner.
A little odd that you didn't mention any of that since you were so focused on someone at Stanford "validating" this clinic. You still seem to be searching for information about his background, credentials, etc. Did they "validate" him and his clinic or not?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I did get responses, but for a while briefly after that I wondered whether or not mentioning that had any point, as the information I got in the beginning from Heller was mostly just surprise and skepticism sent from his iphone, and that he visited for about a week. It was not very informative, and I didn't learn much. I expected Heller to have skepticism. I also felt that mentioning it was rather pointless since Shim was already mentioned in the blog. I kind of felt dumb obsessing on whether or not Shim's existence was legitimate after that.
But then Megan Ealy's email came in a few days ago, and she just mentioned that he was there for interest on stem cell hearing loss treatment. That was a bit more informative, but I didn't think it had much value. I considered on posting about it though, but forgot to.
Unfortunately, I have not gotten anything about his past clinic, or his current. Just the stuff I told you. Barely anything useful.
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
@Aaron thatąs what Dr Shim claims he uses:
"We uses your own growth factors and stem cell extracted from your blood , bone marrow , or fat tissue"
If not NT-3 nor BDNF which other growth factors he may use in your opinion?
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I just mailed dr Shim asking him about details what kind of groty factors he uses an some scientific background behind. His reply was very blunt, he says he does not discuss his methods so deeply with his patients and if I want to be his patient I need to trust him. Otherwise I should find help somehere else not at his clinic... On one hand I didn't like his blunt reply, on other hand it looks like he is not desperate to convince patients to his methods, if someone does not trust him should give it up
It seems this guy has been getting a lot of email requests these last couple of days. His replies to my emails were also very blunt. He didn't seem desperate at all and wouldn't even respond to my questions. Very similar to what you wrote.
More likely is that he realizes that replying to emails doesn't get him any money. Elaborating on his methods increases the risk of error on his side, while delivering him no direct profits.
And yes, surely there are patients who don't ask too much and are desperate enough to 'just get it done'. Considering the millions of Tinnitus sufferers, he has no reason to be desperate as there are always many among them who don't ask questions. Scam or no scam.
Again; I would be extremely cautious. Looking over this thread I can see some red flags accumulating (the methods, the discounts, the blunt replies, the lack of information on the website etc.)... Contrary to many here, my skepticism has only been increasing.
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I really don't know what to think about it. It seems to be the first clinic worldwide which injects stem cells / growth factors directly to the ear so it's an experimental treatment which may turn to be effective. On the other hand lack of solid scientific background behind and the fact the Dr Shim does not want to reveal details of his menthod makes the whole story pretty vague. Honestly if I only new a bit more science behind and proofs of efficacy I would consider to go there somewhere mid next year, 6kUSD even when you add flight and accomodation is not a fortune in my case if only I new I had a chance of say 50% of improvement in my T. I hope for some of TT members to decide to give it a try first so that we could rely on his testimony
It's good to hold some reservation. But the fact we're even talking about these stem cell clinics is amazing. 8 years ago when I got this horrible condition, potential treatment was just a pipe dream. The best part is that stem cell clinics are trying to heal other ailments as well and the knowledge is applicable to what we're trying to accomplish.
Con artists often do that, they play hard to get, so it's not obvious that it's a con.
Sorry, but this smells more and more badly the more I read about it.
<<< I just mailed dr Shim asking him about details what kind of groty factors he uses an some scientific background behind. >>>
I would think that any legit business would have had this prepared in advance and would be more than happy to take two seconds to email it to you.
I agree. I'd like to hear more about this stem cell research. If it works then fantastic, if it doesn't work then try something else. But we can never quit trying.
In any event, in my opinion, I am 100% convinced the solution for us, is not with this Dr Shim.
I am agreed with you, but I think that if he does have a solution that works why share it. Big pharma isnt going to do that. Its a gamble. If you have good hearing then takiing this type of gamble is not worth it at all. T is bad but mangeable, but T with bad hearing is T at a whole other level. At least with good hearing you can do the tips and tricks and use maskers and you can lead a very very normal life after it first hits you. Hearing loss and T really limits your options to getting better and it was get a whole lot louder if not managed properly.
Scam or not, I am excited. I really don't want to wait 5 plus years for 3 sets of clinical trials for a something that works. If stem cells will do the trick then why not. They have done enough tests on gerbils to know that if done correctly a stem cell produce can bring back lost hearing. I keep referring back to the 2012 tests the UK did on the gerbils. They had good results and its 4 years later now.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Well, the Sale Festa does seem to be a legitimate thing. That does not mean much though. http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/AKR/FU_EN_15.jsp?cid=2420707
http://www.koreagrandsale.co.kr/en/board/237
http://www.koreagrandsale.co.kr/en/board/237
I just wonder if there is a possibility to "close the door" for future treatments. There is not yet enough knowledge about the inner ear to predict what happens if (an) unknown growth factor(s) is(are) injected in the middle ear. (Or stem cells) .How many growth factors are available at the moment that could have an effect on inner ear regeneration? Growth factors can be so many things. And the gerbils? There won't be any long term data. Not yet anyway.
I am starting to think it is a very high risk treatment. Especially long term.
I am starting to think it is a very high risk treatment. Especially long term.
Agreed this is high risk which is why I don't think anyone should try this unless they have nothing left to lose. Even with my little hearing, I manage to get by between that and reading lips. I am in pretty bad shape and I don't see this as an option for me right now, but when they tell me that cochlear implants are the only option left, then yes this does seem like an alternative.
Really long term, your hearing probably starts degrading again as you continue to age. Even if it buys you 5 years of better hearing, they could have something better by then.
Agreed this is high risk which is why I don't think anyone should try this unless they have nothing left to lose. Even with my little hearing, I manage to get by between that and reading lips. I am in pretty bad shape and I don't see this as an option for me right now, but when they tell me that cochlear implants are the only option left, then yes this does seem like an alternative.
Really long term, your hearing probably starts degrading again as you continue to age. Even if it buys you 5 years of better hearing, they could have something better by then.
Hearing does not deteriorate as we age, we just damage it on daily basis.
Before all this hearing restoration research stuff really kicked in, all thought that you could lose hearing only because of disease or "just getting older". Now it has been determined that because of constant noise exposure over
normal" levels (i.e. driving car with open window (closest to your ear), working at factory, etc) is what kills hearing.
All i know is that if this injection is PRP-like, then risk is minimal (except incision itself). Never hear of complications from PRP injections ever. It either works as intended or "not as good", that is it.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I asked Minbo Shim about the injection. I was skeptical that I would be able to leave by flight for a while due to the eardrum puncture, but he said I could leave very next day. I don't know about the science of this, so I cannot say. I have also read that perforations heal at most within a few months, and this would be an injection so I would assume the needle would be small enough to where healing process was swift in that regard.
I just don't know if putting things that came from the blood is dangerous. Yet, doctors put steroids in there so I guess it possibly shouldn't be too bad.
For what it is worth, I had an intra-tympanic injection in one ear earlier this year (corticosteriod). The ENT told me that eardrums heal fine from a needle going through them 99 percent of the time. She looked at me one week later to make sure I was not part of the one percent. A week later she said it had healed fine and that was the end of it, I was part of the 99 percent.
For the injection, they put a camera in my ear and projected it on a large TV screen, so I was able to see the needle going into the eardrum in large projection full color. Quite a show.
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