Suicidal

[MrCrybaby]

Thank you and I hope it does help us. However I personally hate to think futuristic medicine is the only help for me. It makes me feel disabled and hopeless in the short term. I need to find a path forward that doesn't require researchers hitting that biotech lottery. It feels we've heard these medicines are 5 years out for far too long.

Be careful in the way you think. Be optimistic about recovery, but do not enter a headspace where you blame yourself for not recovering spontaneously.

Don't see it as "how awful that I need the medicine of the future to heal" but "how wonderful that if I can't make it on my own there will be other options in the future".

 

[MusicTeacher]

@Capstan thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated. I'm definitely going down the rabbit hole of- how did I do this to myself... how can I fix it.

I do have hyperacusis, but it seems to be the one thing that is continually going down without backtracking. Only three and a half months in, and it would be nice to go back to week 3 or 4 of my tinnitus. I don't think I've done anything specific to make the tinnitus change or get worse, but over the past three months it has changed a ton, and with it, emotions are everywhere from - I've got this, to, I'm done. I'm having a hard time deciding what's an improvement vs worsening. I've gone from really high, pure tones in one ear with a "quiet room" tone in the other ear, to both ears hissing with pitch (not pure though), to complete head tinnitus (this was the worst) to a low gurgling sound, back to hissing in both ears, now accompanied by a low drone that seems to be fading. It almost feels like my mind bounces between ears now. Guess I should've been happy with the original tone in the one ear. It can drive you crazy. What's coming tomorrow? I'd kill for a nice low pink noise...or silence.

Do you mind if I ask how You feel you made things worse?

 

[dan]

I mean reactive in the sound sensitive tinnitus variety. Where tinnitus becomes louder even when low noise is heard. I used to have reactive to loud noises, but now it's specific low volume stimuli and noisy places. Often white noise sources. For me it could be a computer fan, microwave or washing machine. Sometimes these noises can spike my tinnitus to intense levels and can take hours to comeback down. It scares me since it's possible any spike could end up permanent. I've seen people have it here but not too many that resolve.

For me it's reactive to noisy places.

 

[dan]

Can you kill me too?

I hope you said that out of frustration my friend.

 

[dan]

I can't live with this anymore. Nothing relieves me. Absolutely nothing.

Dear acute, I don't like your new Avatar. I like the girl sipping cherry pop.

On another note, is your tinnitus really that bad???? Very very extremely rarely seen a person under 25 with severe tinnitus... it usually starts off moderate at most, a livable tinnitus. Perhaps the reality of a noise in your head has devastated you... as in you cannot accept having it?

 

[RishRamsey]

I hope you said that out of frustration my friend.

For now, yes.

But if my symptoms don't let up in a few years, I might actually go ahead and do that - hyperacusis has taken everything from me, my career, my personal relationships. If only my symptoms were to improve (which is just not fucking happening), I could look to rebuild a life again.
If not, quality of life matters.

 

[Agrajag364]

I always hesitate to talk of suicide ideation on this forum as I don't want to encourage others towards it but I'm getting to the point where if I didn't have my family I'd be glad to do it. Tinnitus is not my only health problem though; and tinnitus is a strange thing which can sometimes improve for no reason after years.

 

[Capstan]

@Capstan thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated. I'm definitely going down the rabbit hole of- how did I do this to myself... how can I fix it.

I do have hyperacusis, but it seems to be the one thing that is continually going down without backtracking. Only three and a half months in, and it would be nice to go back to week 3 or 4 of my tinnitus. I don't think I've done anything specific to make the tinnitus change or get worse, but over the past three months it has changed a ton, and with it, emotions are everywhere from - I've got this, to, I'm done. I'm having a hard time deciding what's an improvement vs worsening. I've gone from really high, pure tones in one ear with a "quiet room" tone in the other ear, to both ears hissing with pitch (not pure though), to complete head tinnitus (this was the worst) to a low gurgling sound, back to hissing in both ears, now accompanied by a low drone that seems to be fading. It almost feels like my mind bounces between ears now. Guess I should've been happy with the original tone in the one ear. It can drive you crazy. What's coming tomorrow? I'd kill for a nice low pink noise...or silence.

Do you mind if I ask how You feel you made things worse?

Yup. Too many ENTs visited (tympanograms hurt me) and also masking with pink noise. I should've let my ears rest. I have so many regrets.

 

[acute]

Dear acute, I don't like your new Avatar. I like the girl sipping cherry pop.

On another note, is your tinnitus really that bad???? Very very extremely rarely seen a person under 25 with severe tinnitus... it usually starts off moderate at most, a livable tinnitus. Perhaps the reality of a noise in your head has devastated you... as in you cannot accept having it?

Yeah, it's really "that bad".

And it's not that rare to see people around the age of 25 with horrible tinnitus. I myself have been messaging privately with several of them, young people like me with their lives ruined thanks to this fucking beast, and all of them with an awfull orchestra in their heads. Unfortunately, we had a fucking genetic punishment. So we have this shit early in our lives.

I have probably abused my ears a lot less than other older people in this forum, I just didn't have time in my life to cause a great damage to my ears. Besides, I didn't even go to concerts or noisy places, but it is clear that I had a genetic predisposition to develop this shit.

If I have developed tinnitus so early in life without even going to noisy places, it means that my ears are much weaker than the ears of someone else who is 45 and has been a musician and has attended many rock concerts, for example.

 

[Agrajag364]

Yeah, it's really "that bad".

And it's not that rare to see people around the age of 25 with horrible tinnitus. I myself have been messaging privately with several of them, young people like me with their lives ruined thanks to this fucking beast, and all of them with an awfull orchestra in their heads. Unfortunately, we had a fucking genetic punishment. So we have this shit early in our lives.

I have probably abused my ears a lot less than other older people in this forum, I just didn't have time in my life to cause a great damage to my ears. Besides, I didn't even go to concerts or noisy places, but it is clear that I had a genetic predisposition to develop this shit.

If I have developed tinnitus so early in life without even going to noisy places, it means that my ears are much weaker than the ears of someone else who is 45 and has been a musician and has attended many rock concerts, for example.

You have only had it since April 2019. It can definitely get quieter in a younger person over time. Yes not everyone, but it happens.

 

[Agrajag364]

Yo Dan not to shit stir, as it does sound like your tinnitus has given you a rough ride............but that's quite a doozy of post of yours from a few years on the ability of men vs women to handle loud tinnitus......oof. It's always tricky questioning others' ability to accept having tinnitus or dealing with it.......we none of know what another hears or has to handle.

 

[acute]

You have only had it since April 2019. It can definitely get quieter in a younger person over time. Yes not everyone, but it happens.

All it does is get worse.

 

[dan]

Yo Dan not to shit stir, as it does sound like your tinnitus has given you a rough ride............but that's quite a doozy of post of yours from a few years on the ability of men vs women to handle loud tinnitus......oof. It's always tricky questioning others' ability to accept having tinnitus or dealing with it.......we none of know what another hears or has to handle.

I am flattered you have been through my old posts.

 

[dan]

All it does is get worse.

This is very unfortunate, since habituation can only kick in if the offending stimulus is constant.
Keep safe, I read Spain is pretty rough at the moment...

 

[Agrajag364]

I am flattered you have been through my old posts.

Came across it on a thread, was seriously quite impressed at your spectacularly sexist opinion that men must be tougher at overcoming loud tinnitus. Whatever belief systems help keep you going, knock yourself out I guess.

 

[PeteJ]

I always hesitate to talk of suicide ideation on this forum as I don't want to encourage others towards it but I'm getting to the point where if I didn't have my family I'd be glad to do it. Tinnitus is not my only health problem though; and tinnitus is a strange thing which can sometimes improve for no reason after years.

How old are those people?

How bad was their tinnitus? I know it's hard to measure.

I say mine is 10/10 in severity (I always think about suicide and I think I will try eventually) and occasionally, it's 8/10, which is still bad but it doesn't stay like for very long.

My tinnitus worsened last April of last year and it was very noticeable. It would fluctuate a bit and I would have tinnitus of 2 - 5/10 at times although it was brief. It was usually 7 or 8 out of 10 with occasional spikes bringing it to 9/10. Now, I don't have those fluctuations and it's always loud especially in the later evening. I wish I had an easy suicide method but it's difficult for me to concentrate especially for a plan like that. If people can do it impulsively or easily (spontaneously), I don't know how.

 

[Zugzug]

I always hesitate to talk of suicide ideation on this forum as I don't want to encourage others towards it but I'm getting to the point where if I didn't have my family I'd be glad to do it. Tinnitus is not my only health problem though; and tinnitus is a strange thing which can sometimes improve for no reason after years.

I think there's a difference between venting about suicidal thoughts in an effort to not commit suicide, as opposed to discussing the steps to actually do it. The latter is way above the pay grade of any TinnitusTalk member.

 

[dan]

Came across it on a thread, was seriously quite impressed at your spectacularly sexist opinion that men must be tougher at overcoming loud tinnitus. Whatever belief systems help keep you going, knock yourself out I guess.

Must be self-isolation anxiety, for getting worked up about something posted years ago and brought up for no good reason, probably out of context.

It's gonna be OK.

 

[Agrajag364]

I just can't buy that 2 strong MEN cannot overcome something a woman could...we aren't sissies.

It's gonna be OK.

Thanks o manly one, I feel better now. Here in self-isolation I had just been worrying about how I was going to cope with the horrible screechy noise without a p*nis.

Seriously... Tinnitus is strange thing. People develop coping mechanisms. Unhealthy and healthy distractions like alcohol or hobbies. Telling themselves they are tough and have coped with X before so can cope with this. Helping others, like Hazel. Using a sense of masculinity to help them cope.

 

[Agrajag364]

How old are those people?

How bad was their tinnitus? I know it's hard to measure.

I think we had this chat before Pete. I'm really sorry but many people would not say how old they were. It's hard to say how bad the noise was but yes maybe it would tend to be the milder cases that are more likely to remit.

 

[PeteJ]

discussing the steps to actually do it. The latter is way above the pay grade of any TinnitusTalk member.

It should be allowed.

 

[Zugzug]

It should be allowed.

Could not disagree more. Obviously, my viewpoints on habituation are clear -- it isn't always effective and we need more biomedical research and less psychiatry for this. But this is an anonymous forum; it's not my place to know how bad someone's condition is. How can you recommend that to someone you've never met? Hell, I couldn't recommend that to anyone; I don't have the stomach for it. I don't generally think of suicide as selfish, but trying to be enabled by others to do it so that they have guilt on their conscience? That certainly is selfish.

Suicide has steps to it. Screaming that you wish you were dead is not the final step. This is also a reminder that this forum does provide other value. For example, research news, podcasts, creating a coalition. And yes, people are going to lose their cool and talk about wishing they were dead. I fully think this should be allowed.

The ironic part is that all we do on this forum is bash pseudoscience. Yet it's extremely pseudo scientific to give people psychological advice on a forum. What qualifications do I have to tell someone to go kill themselves?

But an assisted suicide forum should be its own thing. The people who do that are fully committed to it from an ethical standpoint. It doesn't make sense to say that's what Tinnitus Talk should be.

 

[HootOwl]

We all need to find what gives us that hope. I've read a lot of your posts and feel we have some similar symptoms. Besides FX-322 - how do you cope with all that is going on in your ears day by day? I stay in my bed and it's not a good approach. I feel the sheets are sometimes too loud or cause my tinnitus to react.

God, I know that feeling all too well... Every little thing likes to set my reactivity off as well, and yeah sheets sucks for me too.

At home I have a masking set up in my bedroom that doesn't set it off or at least to the point where I don't notice it as much.

I cope pretty poorly honestly... I walk a lot and that helps take my mind off it for a little while. Sometimes it just feels like I'm so brain dead at this point I can't even react.

 

[PeteJ]

I think we had this chat before Pete. I'm really sorry but many people would not say how old they were. It's hard to say how bad the noise was but yes maybe it would tend to be the milder cases that are more likely to remit.

Probably not. No one reads what I fucking post here.

 

[PeteJ]

Could not disagree more. Obviously, my viewpoints on habituation are clear -- it isn't always effective and we need more biomedical research and less psychiatry for this. But this is an anonymous forum; it's not my place to know how bad someone's condition is. How can you recommend that to someone you've never met? Hell, I couldn't recommend that to anyone; I don't have the stomach for it. I don't generally think of suicide as selfish, but trying to be enabled by others to do it so that they have guilt on their conscience? That certainly is selfish.

Suicide has steps to it. Screaming that you wish you were dead is not the final step. This is also a reminder that this forum does provide other value. For example, research news, podcasts, creating a coalition. And yes, people are going to lose their cool and talk about wishing they were dead. I fully think this should be allowed.

The ironic part is that all we do on this forum is bash pseudoscience. Yet it's extremely pseudo scientific to give people psychological advice on a forum. What qualifications do I have to tell someone to go kill themselves?

But an assisted suicide forum should be its own thing. The people who do that are fully committed to it from an ethical standpoint. It doesn't make sense to say that's what Tinnitus Talk should be.

I don't give a fuck about habituation. That is accepting or getting used to your condition so you can go away and not talk about it - an easy way so others can be glad to not read your posts anymore. Why do people think every condition is something you can habituate to? That is not reality. You are making up things that I didn't say. I know it's a support forum but some people here have horrible, severe cases of tinnitus and hyperacusis and/or who knows what related conditions - some call it TMJ. I have severe ear pain in addition to my tinnitus and I still am not sure what it is! My left ear seems like it's always fucked up. It's always sore, in discomfort, as if it was hit physically and in the worst cases, just severe pain and I don't know what is causing it. I have no cause and no treatment. Just theories people come up with here. Well, I guess it's better than a fucking ENT who says and does nothing. But, they are paid six figures to do fuck all.

I think these severe conditions justifies suicide and I believe people should be able to get help to do that. There's no cure and no treatment. Just suffering and I don't think it's worth it. The wait for a potential treatment that probably won't be anything is supposedly 10 years away and that is too long for me. I don't want to wait 10 fucking years with ear pain and loud tinnitus. I would rather not have this misery at all. Eventually, I won't have anything holding me up but I think, in principle, people shouldn't be forced to suffer and be forced to seek suicide on their own. It's inhumane.

 

[Zugzug]

I know it's a support forum but some people here have horrible, severe cases of tinnitus and hyperacusis and/or who knows what related conditions - some call it TMJ.

For the the past 10 months, I've been unable to leave my house, work, talk, whisper, exercise. Every. Single. Noise. Bothers me. A large part of the time, I can't tolerate typing on a keyboard or writing with a pencil -- with earplugs and earmuffs in. Whispering for a few seconds gives me a massive headache and I have to stop. I have roaring tinnitus most of the time. I've had suicidal thoughts almost every day and have cried hundreds of times. And, I have less reason to be optimistic since my problem is caused by my immune system attack my inner ear, it's very unlikely that these new drugs will cure me. Is that enough suffering?

I think these severe conditions justifies suicide and I believe people should be able to get help to do that. There's no cure and no treatment. Just suffering and I don't think it's worth it. The wait for a potential treatment that probably won't be anything is supposedly 10 years away and that is too long for me. I don't want to wait 10 fucking years with ear pain and loud tinnitus. I would rather not have this misery at all. Eventually, I won't have anything holding me up but I think, in principle, people shouldn't be forced to suffer and be forced to seek suicide on their own. It's inhumane.

This has nothing to do with anything other than a conversation about ethics. Some people are committed to guiding people through suicide, while others are not. My ethics are that I cannot recommend suicide to someone on the internet, and I never will.

I fail to see why Tinnitus Talk should be the place to set up suicide, a medical procedure. Overwhelmingly, people talk about suicide on here as a way to vent, and ultimately, not commit suicide. Actual plans, dates, and methods is not for me.

I want to tell you a story that has shaped my opinion. At my worst, I had relentless suicidal thoughts. Months later, I started to have a mini-recovery and was so thankful I kept fighting. Granted, I ended up backsliding again, etc., but I got a taste of what a recovery might look like.

At the time, I thought there was no way I could ever have even a small recovery. But I did. Will you have recoveries? I don't know. But I don't want to be the person that shoved someone over the edge when some good news was around the corner.

Also, five years ago, my disease gave me debilitating chronic pain -- also had suicidal thoughts. After I pushed through, I was so glad I did.

 

[Orions Pain]

I don't give a fuck about habituation. That is accepting or getting used to your condition so you can go away and not talk about it - an easy way so others can be glad to not read your posts anymore. Why do people think every condition is something you can habituate to? That is not reality. You are making up things that I didn't say. I know it's a support forum but some people here have horrible, severe cases of tinnitus and hyperacusis and/or who knows what related conditions - some call it TMJ. I have severe ear pain in addition to my tinnitus and I still am not sure what it is! My left ear seems like it's always fucked up. It's always sore, in discomfort, as if it was hit physically and in the worst cases, just severe pain and I don't know what is causing it. I have no cause and no treatment. Just theories people come up with here. Well, I guess it's better than a fucking ENT who says and does nothing. But, they are paid six figures to do fuck all.

I think these severe conditions justifies suicide and I believe people should be able to get help to do that. There's no cure and no treatment. Just suffering and I don't think it's worth it. The wait for a potential treatment that probably won't be anything is supposedly 10 years away and that is too long for me. I don't want to wait 10 fucking years with ear pain and loud tinnitus. I would rather not have this misery at all. Eventually, I won't have anything holding me up but I think, in principle, people shouldn't be forced to suffer and be forced to seek suicide on their own. It's inhumane.

Have you ruled out Neuralgia?

"Geniculate neuralgia is a condition that is caused by a small nerve (the nervus intermedius) being compressed by a blood vessel. Geniculate neuralgia results in severe, deep ear pain which is usually sharp—often described as an "ice pick in the ear"—but may also be dull and burning."

 

[Bill Bauer]

Have you ruled out Neuralgia?

"Geniculate neuralgia is a condition that is caused by a small nerve (the nervus intermedius) being compressed by a blood vessel. Geniculate neuralgia results in severe, deep ear pain which is usually sharp—often described as an "ice pick in the ear"—but may also be dull and burning."

Is the pain constant?

 

[Daniel Lion]

For the the past 10 months, I've been unable to leave my house, work, talk, whisper, exercise. Every. Single. Noise. Bothers me. A large part of the time, I can't tolerate typing on a keyboard or writing with a pencil -- with earplugs and earmuffs in. Whispering for a few seconds gives me a massive headache and I have to stop. I have roaring tinnitus most of the time. I've had suicidal thoughts almost every day and have cried hundreds of times. And, I have less reason to be optimistic since my problem is caused by my immune system attack my inner ear, it's very unlikely that these new drugs will cure me. Is that enough suffering?

This has nothing to do with anything other than a conversation about ethics. Some people are committed to guiding people through suicide, while others are not. My ethics are that I cannot recommend suicide to someone on the internet, and I never will.

I fail to see why Tinnitus Talk should be the place to set up suicide, a medical procedure. Overwhelmingly, people talk about suicide on here as a way to vent, and ultimately, not commit suicide. Actual plans, dates, and methods is not for me.

I want to tell you a story that has shaped my opinion. At my worst, I had relentless suicidal thoughts. Months later, I started to have a mini-recovery and was so thankful I kept fighting. Granted, I ended up backsliding again, etc., but I got a taste of what a recovery might look like.

At the time, I thought there was no way I could ever have even a small recovery. But I did. Will you have recoveries? I don't know. But I don't want to be the person that shoved someone over the edge when some good news was around the corner.

Also, five years ago, my disease gave me debilitating chronic pain -- also had suicidal thoughts. After I pushed through, I was so glad I did.

Thank you for sharing

I am sorry you suffer from this wretched condition.

Zigzag you're in our hearts and your empathy and clarity despite your pain is amazing, I struggle to find the words. I am humbled.

Wishing you only good... and that the universe and laws of chaos and chance will smile upon you and a science based miracle would benefit you and your particular condition.

See you around the forum
Daniel

 

[xyz]

And, I have less reason to be optimistic since my problem is caused by my immune system attack my inner ear, it's very unlikely that these new drugs will cure me. Is that enough suffering?

How is it possible to diagnose that these symptoms are coming from an autoimmune disease in the inner ear?