Suicidal

[Contrast]

I'm trying to get people to think critically about what consciousness and the brain is, it doesn't seem to be playing by the same rules as the external world. How powerful does a computer need to be before it has subjective experiences or (the illusion of) agency?

Computer programs that learn are programmed what they can learn, and algorithms needed to learn those things in the first place. The AI's goals are set by the creator. If the computer is not programmed to play hockey, it will never figure out how to play hockey as it's creator never gave it that algorithm.

We can just pretend consciousness requires an unimaginable amount of computation. It's probably something else the brain is doing that isn't yet understood. If single cell organism's can find food, look for mates and navigate out of mazes. Whatever our intelligence is, is not much like a computer.

Biological sciences are mediocrely understood. We all can agree with that. Consciousness is not understood at all. it's only a hypothesis that the brain is a classical computer cleverly programmed into thinking it has agency. Whatever the brain is really doing involves a consciousness sitting at the control panel, not just neuronal firings obeying classical laws. You really are a consciousness controlling a person. All the cells in your body are living, but they act as a tool of one agent. (YoU)

Think critically about consciousness before you dismiss it as an illusion. I am very skeptical of people who call it an illusion, but they have no choice because materialism and free will are incompatible as an animal's brain matter cannot have agency of it's own. It's all bio-chemical processes and algorithms. I wish I would have known this early. Good luck raising awareness for tinnitus research and changing the status quo if you are a puppet obeying mathematical laws.

 

[Contrast]

Why does the brain interpret vibrations or air/water/matter as sound? Robots don't hear sound, they just process precise vibrations and respond using an algorithm programmed by a person. Studying the areas of the brain associated with processing sound would never explain why it is subjectively processed as sound. It just is what it is. Science knows what parts of the brain process sound, but it doesn't know why it is interpreted that way.


What if the brain interpreted sound as color, or smell or taste? Smell, Taste, Color and Sound is subjective, it only exist inside a conscious agents mind. Without the brain interpreting stimuli, that stimuli would be viewed as completely different. How did the brain come up with a subjective experience for vibrations of air in the first place? Like it or not, science doesn't have a clue about subjectivity.

How powerful does a computer have to be, before it has an internal state of subjectivity? How does a raw state of emergent awareness turn into complex feelings and emotions? Awareness has to be fundamental not emergent.

 

[acute]

I will not answer any questions about my tinnitus. I have explained it several times. That type of questions has no sense. I will not answer any of that, I have already passed that phase quite a few months ago trying to explain to everybody how it sounds, how many sounds it has, and all that kind of useless shit. I'm just not interested in continuing to talk about it anymore.

It's seems like even here people are always doubting the severity of someones tinnitus. I am not going to describe my tinnitus again over and over because it just makes me sick and it makes me extremely angry to describe that fucking and nauseous shit. If someone wants to know how mine sounds, they should look at my previous posts. However, since my onset in April 2019, new sounds have appeared and in general tinnitus has worsened. My tinnitus is now louder and most unpleasant than before.

Little off topic, sorry.

 

[FGG]

I hope you're right. We're a great deal different than birds. Even though the ability to regenerate hearing is dormant, do we really know for sure that there is something out there to start that process in humans? I know FX-322 is supposed to do that, but we don't have solid proof at this point. And we can't just look into the cochlea either to verify. I don't mean to be a downer, just see my skepticism as a method of self-preservation.

They have regenerated hair cells in a human explant cochlea study. That's pretty solid proof it doesn't just work in birds.

 

[Tweedleman]

I will not answer any questions about my tinnitus. I have explained it several times. That type of questions has no sense. I will not answer any of that, I have already passed that phase quite a few months ago trying to explain to everybody how it sounds, how many sounds it has, and all that kind of useless shit. I'm just not interested in continuing to talk about it anymore.

It's seems like even here people are always doubting the severity of someones tinnitus. I am not going to describe my tinnitus again over and over because it just makes me sick and it makes me extremely angry to describe that fucking and nauseous shit. If someone wants to know how mine sounds, they should look at my previous posts. However, since my onset in April 2019, new sounds have appeared and in general tinnitus has worsened. My tinnitus is now louder and most unpleasant than before.

Little off topic, sorry.

Totally agree. If someone is posting here every day, especially in this thread of all, then they're obviously suffering which is what's important. It's not a competition to see whose got it worse.

 

[Contrast]

Suicidal Thread is MPP 2.0

 

[Contrast]

Does anyone want to help me figure out if consciousness is a fundamental part of the universe or not?

It's not like I'm killing myself soon, I just want to know for a friend. k thanks

 

[Contrast]

The first rule of Medicine "Do no harm" Should be replaced with "Do whatever the fuck it takes to reverse/stop biological damage.

 

[Contrast]

YOUR SUFFERING IS JUST A WAY FOR THEM TO PROMOTE THEIR BEHAVIORAL MODIFICATION THERAPIES.

 

[Orions Pain]

That feeling deep down in your soul that this all isn't going away, and it's not going to get better.

Just knowing of this pain and suffering messed my brain up bad. There's no going back. I feel like I'm not even me anymore.

 

[GlennS]

Does anyone want to help me figure out if consciousness is a fundamental part of the universe or not?

To be honest there are probably some other online hangouts that are better for that sort of thing than a thread frequented by people on the verge of suicide.

And really, if it's that important for you, do some formal self-learning and maybe write a book or do a documentary on it. It's already keeping you going, why not go all the way?

 

[Orions Pain]

 

[Contrast]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-b-f-skinner-may-have-been-the-most-dangerous-psych-1548690441

 

[Contrast]

The only nice thing I have to say about ACT is that it's cheap, so more money in theory could be put inside for biomedical sciences. Other then that it's god awful as it brainwashes the sufferer into processing noxious stimuli as the new normal™

For every one paper on pubmed that takes about nerve regeneration or noiceptor blockers, there is gonna be several dozens discussing CBT and ACT ad nasseum. Psychologist obviously out number scientist who have a deep understanding of biology.

 

[Contrast]

I picture the world like human cattle, the elite pyschologists are at the highest levels of academia spewing nonsense. Meanwhile the average patient is visiting countless doctors and getting nowhere and buying all the snake oil on Amazon. I'm a delusion retard for viewing biomedical research as a way out of this mess.

 

[GlennS]

I see my advice is falling on deaf ears (no pun intended) just as I knew it would.

 

[grate_biff]

Tinnitus and noxacusis especially is just not possible to live with anymore.
I have suffered with this for soon 6 years now, but it is just getting worse.

Maybe from the ear infection I had last year or maybe it´s from my relentless benzo withdrawal.
I can´t stand even the normal every day to day sound. Flushing my toilet is just pure torture if I don´t protect myself.

I think I have found a way to off myself in my sleep (propane-gas and a tent) and I´m determined to do it this week. I have postponded it many times already.

I´m totally addicted to three different AD´s as well. They are making me sick and probably make my tinnitus and hyperacusis even worse.

Frequency Therapeutics has kept me alive for a long time, but it´s just too far away when every second of my life is misery.

I still think I am in a dream/nightmare, but unfortunately it´s reality.

God help me...

 

[xyz]

But... I don't think that there's a link between how badly a disease needs a cure and the probability that a cure is found. There are many horrible things out there for which there isn't a cure as of yet. Think of Parkinson's, dementia, Huntington's, ALS, MS, Cerebral Palsy,...

There's plenty of money in research on very trivial things that happen to be lucrative. I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet there has been more money in toothpaste than in tinnitus research.

P.S.: toothpaste is still very important if you want to avoid having to go to the dentist. Keep brushin'.

I am not saying that the private sector should invest in basic tinnitus research. They will not do this because it has only a remote chance of being profitable. But governments should do so. And when I see here in Germany Charite (one of Germany's lead medical research institutions) is promoting something like Tinniwell just makes me disappointed.
Yes, toothpaste research - unfortunately only my ears are messed up, my teeth are okay.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Tinnitus and noxacusis especially is just not possible to live with anymore.
I have suffered with this for soon 6 years now, but it is just getting worse.

Maybe from the ear infection I had last year or maybe it´s from my relentless benzo withdrawal.
I can´t stand even the normal every day to day sound. Flushing my toilet is just pure torture if I don´t protect myself.

I think I have found a way to off myself in my sleep (propane-gas and a tent) and I´m determined to do it this week. I have postponded it many times already.

I´m totally addicted to three different AD´s as well. They are making me sick and probably make my tinnitus and hyperacusis even worse.

Frequency Therapeutics has kept me alive for a long time, but it´s just too far away when every second of my life is misery.

I still think I am in a dream/nightmare, but unfortunately it´s reality.

God help me...

Hey brother,
Innocent question, I am sorry.

Is it possible to do a slow taper of the ADs or have them adjusted? You did say their making you sick and making the tinnitus and hyperacusis worse.
So sorry you are in the shit... can you get some help with the meds?

 

[Daniel Lion]

@FGG I owe you an apology.
I am sorry. I know music is everything to you. In my post I didn't address the significance of that, so now I am.
I hope fervently that one day you can enjoy your passion again and be soothed by your favorite sounds. I sincerely mean that. Sorry if I downplayed that my friend.

 

[PeteJ]

Lay people talk about hair cell regeneration, neuromodulation, and repairing a damaged cochlea. Medical professionals talk about CBT, TRT and ACT. This is how you know we are living in a clown world.

People here say that researchers are going to save everyone though. Are they experts or lay people?

 

[PeteJ]

At my onset I managed to get my doctor to prescribe benzos for a couple of months.
Then I read somewhere a warning that benzos can increase Tinnitus volume - so I stopped dead.
I've never taken them since - and would not consider them again.

A few people here still take benzos though. I think they would stop them if their tinnitus kept increasing in volume. Wouldn't they?

It doesn't matter anyway, for me, as my current dr refused. Even if I got a new doctor, the probability is high that he/she wouldn't prescribe them to me either. I think doctors here are really conservative or at least ones taking new patients. I suspect that benzos and opioids are two medications that are the most difficult to get.

 

[PeteJ]

They have regenerated hair cells in a human explant cochlea study. That's pretty solid proof it doesn't just work in birds.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Researchers have made all these discoveries but have done nothing for people yet.

 

[PeteJ]

I am not saying that the private sector should invest in basic tinnitus research. They will not do this because it has only a remote chance of being profitable. But governments should do so. And when I see here in Germany Charite (one of Germany's lead medical research institutions) is promoting something like Tinniwell just makes me disappointed.
Yes, toothpaste research - unfortunately only my ears are messed up, my teeth are okay.

Yeah, your country is a POS now. Like all the others.

 

[PeteJ]

tinnitus is brain cells interpreting nothing as sound.

I thought it was neurons misfiring? If that is true, how is cochlea and ear cell regeneration or Frequency Therapeutics/FX-322 etc. going to help? Brain cells will have to interpret the repaired tissues or?

 

[PeteJ]

As bad as my ear pain and chronic pain is, my tinnitus volume always seems to be the worst thing I have.

In theory, maybe a narcotic or opioid could help a bit with the physical pain although I can't get that. But, I can't reduce the tinnitus volume.

I think there were a few theories on what *might* reduce the volume but I keep forgetting what they are. REALLY FUCKING LOUD TONES aren't helpful for concentration and memory.

 

[FGG]

@FGG I owe you an apology.
I am sorry. I know music is everything to you. In my post I didn't address the significance of that, so now I am.
I hope fervently that one day you can enjoy your passion again and be soothed by your favorite sounds. I sincerely mean that. Sorry if I downplayed that my friend.

Thank you. That made me cry (in a good way). No apology needed but I did appreciate your words. You are such a kind soul.

 

[FGG]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Researchers have made all these discoveries but have done nothing for people yet.

The drugs are in clinical trial. They fully intend for people to have these treatments. The FDA clinical trial process is the only obstacle at this point.

 

[FGG]

I thought it was neurons misfiring? If that is true, how is cochlea and ear cell regeneration or Frequency Therapeutics/FX-322 etc. going to help? Brain cells will have to interpret the repaired tissues or?

Tinnitus is similar to phantom limb pain. When you disrupt the signal along the auditory pathway, the brain interprets the lack of signal as tinnitus (or hyperacusis when central gain tries to compensate).

The brain is plastic, though. Using "mirror therapy" in Phantom Limb Pain in can settle the hyperactivity just like restoring the damaged audio pathways will cause the brain's maladaptive plasticity to reverse. The brain doesn't have a "preference" and can adapt and readapt to restored input (hence why phantom limb pain can be treated with mirror therapy).

 

[Star64]

Tinnitus and noxacusis especially is just not possible to live with anymore.
I have suffered with this for soon 6 years now, but it is just getting worse.

Maybe from the ear infection I had last year or maybe it´s from my relentless benzo withdrawal.
I can´t stand even the normal every day to day sound. Flushing my toilet is just pure torture if I don´t protect myself.

I think I have found a way to off myself in my sleep (propane-gas and a tent) and I´m determined to do it this week. I have postponded it many times already.

I´m totally addicted to three different AD´s as well. They are making me sick and probably make my tinnitus and hyperacusis even worse.

Frequency Therapeutics has kept me alive for a long time, but it´s just too far away when every second of my life is misery.

I still think I am in a dream/nightmare, but unfortunately it´s reality.

God help me...

Please do not give up, benzo withdrawal can play havoc big time on one's thought process. I am not doubting you have suffered for a long time with both tinnitus and noxacusis but being in withdrawal is probably exacerbating both.

I only speak from my own experience, and benzo withdrawal made my tinnitus go through the roof, it also caused me severe hyperacusis and noxacusis not to mention a host of other horrid symptoms. Everything is amplified when one is in withdrawal and suicidal ideation is extremely common.

You are also taking three antidepressants, who knows if these are also causing you more problems than good. It takes a long time once you are benzo free to start feeling better. I am nearing 6 months off benzos and I am feeling much better but it is a slow process. I am no longer suicidal, I no longer have hyperacusis or noxacusis these things lasted for months and I never thought I would survive this ordeal but time can heal, please give it more time.

It can take years after benzo withdrawal to return to normal functioning, I still have loud tinnitus but I have learnt strategies to cope, I am hoping you will too. Things can improve with time, withdrawal will make everything way worse.

Have you got a medical doctor that is over seeing your withdrawal? If I recall you were tapering extremely fast previously which is not a good idea. Maybe you could taper more slowly the benzo and then try and reduce the other medications you are taking after you have successfully withdrawn from the benzo.

Please do not hesitate to PM me if you need to talk to someone, I truly understand how difficult it must be for you right now. HANG IN THERE, GIVE IT MORE TIME