War in Ukraine — Megathread

Illegal immigration (including asylum seekers) is a huge problem in the U.S. also, going back years, and it's worse again under the current administration.

We spend over $100 Billion to protect Ukraine's borders but don't protect our own.

 

Could you briefly explain how illegal immigration destroys a country? I know it's a bad thing, I'm just curious at the mechanism by which destruction occurs.

Is it just illegal immigration, what about legal immigration?

 

Mexicans don't need a visa to come to Canada, we love Mexicans, just send them here!

 

New York City is currently paying about $400.00 per day, per migrant family, to house, feed, clothe, educate their children, provide medical benefits, etc. which totals over $140,000 per year, per family, of which there are tens of thousands. The average yearly income for an American family is about $75,000 per year, about half what we are spending on these migrants.

This will cost NYC 12 billion dollars, over the next few years, which will result in major cuts to services such as police, firefighters, schools, parks, healthcare, and other essential services for citizens.

This is totally insane and needs to stop, ASAP. The only way for this to happen is to replace Biden.

 

Applying for NATO membership takes time and frankly as soon as the application went in - troops would have gone over the border anyway.

I don't particularly think NATO wants to accept members who are at risk of being invaded by a major nuclear power since NATO membership would compel NATO to intervene and that could lead to a nuclear war.

 

Sure, just join loads of Telegram channels of both sides that post videos.

 

Y'all in Europe are unbelievable. I have had it with you guys. I give up with this. I hope you enjoy learning Russian and Chinese after the Asiatic hordes from the East take over your countries.

 

Why don't you tell us more about the Russian and Asiatic hordes that are in the video games that use these terms for the bad guys? Any thoughts on the Yellow Peril, while you're at it?

 

You won’t get any actual sources. And if you do, it’s likely be from Russian state media. These are the same sources that have alleged Ukraine and the U.S. of developing biological weapons in Ukrainian bio-labs or accused Ukraine of creating genetically enhanced super soldiers (not joking) as an attempt to explain their initial setbacks in the war. Plenty of other stupid shit they’ve said and it would be too much to list. It’s nothing but conspiracies and disinformation with them as you’ve been alluding to. I sometimes watch Vladimir Solovyov, a famed Russian mouthpiece for the Kremlin, just to see how deluded people in Russia are. It’s worse than I thought.

I also still haven’t received a response here about the potential for peace talks with Russia and what the stipulations would be. Because let’s be real, they know how unfavorable the terms would be for the Ukrainians. And then Russia gets to recharge and invade later again to claim more territory.

Again with this talking point. Why is there sudden concern about defense spending when we've been allocating over $700 billion (per year) for years, with only a fraction now going to help Ukraine? Where has your level of criticism and outrage been in the previous years, including Trump Administration and before? Why now all of sudden? A small portion of those funds that are now being used to support Ukrainians in their fight for survival is a big problem for you??? I find it so odd. We’re using our military defense budget for a good cause for once — helping the Ukrainians repel against ravaging Russian orcs. Makes absolutely no sense to say money is being ‘sacrifice’ when our military budget is over $700 billion annually unless you oppose it completely.

I’ve always thought our military budget was a bit excessive, but in light of the threats and actions coming from countries like Russia and China, it's become increasingly crucial to maintain a robust and modernized military force more than ever.

Putin’s dumbass actions have led Finland, a country that borders Russia and that was previously neutral, to join NATO. Not only was this invasion a big fail for Putin in that regard, but he has actually done an amazing job of illustrating why NATO is needed, by illegally invading a sovereign nation. Putrid has only himself to blame.

And once again, NATO is a defensive alliance and countries have the right to decide if they want to become members. The Russians should mind their own fucking business. Better yet, how about they join the rest of democratic world? No reason Russia couldn't had been just another powerful democratic country with friendly border relations like the rest of Europe 30 years after the cold war if it weren’t being run by bitter ex-KGB Soviet dickheads.

Anytime I see NATO encroachment brought up, I just roll my eyes every time. It’s just another sad attempt from you people to portray Russians as victims in this situation.

I agree. This war's been going on for more than long enough for the US to realize that Putin is a paper tiger. They could and should be providing all the resources required to get the job done — turn these Russians occupiers into dust with our latest toys and force these asswipes to retreat — because it benefits us just as much, if not more so, as it does the Ukrainians. This war will only stretch on and on, and more and more people (Ukrainians) will die, but it doesn’t have to be that way if we can back them up properly. This shit could be over in days with the proper level of support. Not sure why the Biden Administration keeps pussyfooting on this issue. It’s pissing me off. Give the Ukrainians ATACMS already FFS!

You’re talking to a tankie for your information. No way reflective on Europe as a whole at all. I’m certain most European nations, including the UK, appreciate our efforts during World War II, and in return, we also valued their partnership and support as evidenced by long standing alliance over the years.

As for Russia, it's really amusing seeing these delusional Russians who think that they were the sole determining factor in winning World War II. Remember, Russian logistics sucked hardcore in World War II. They were losing for a good long while until Lend-Lease and the US basically set and paid for their entire supply train that is. The Russians didn’t have shit figured out back then either, someone else had to do it for them. They just had the benefit of raw numbers and the US lend lease program to save their bitch ass. US practically modernized their whole military. People don’t remember how critical the US labor force was for the Allies. Like, FDR literally sent Ford employees overseas to help set up assembly lines to produce trucks to help supply the frontlines. Russia’s way of fighting wars is just throw bodies at the enemy. That dumbass strategy hasn’t changed all that much since the late 1800s.

Unfortunately, aligning ourselves with the Soviets was a necessary evil at the time in order to defeat the Axis powers which were a far more greater threat and evil during that time.

Fixed.

 

Russia now getting friendly with failed, pathetic state like North Korea shows just how far Putin has dragged his country down. He used to negotiate major nations... now he’s doing it with the one who can’t keep the lights on at night.

 

You mean like the US has installed a pro-Washington government all around the world with hundreds of military bases, so they can be cooperative?

Sure, the Lend-Lease played a significant role, but it was the Soviet Union's own industrial efforts and the valor displayed by its citizens and soldiers that played the most crucial roles in the Soviet defeat of the German invasion. Take a look at Stalingrad. I hate it how most westerners try to downplay the Soviet Army's significance in the war.

Take a look at the military deaths (light blue) on this chart. Germany isn't far off from the Soviet Union. The US isn't even a tiny blip.

 

I see history wasn’t your strong suit. It’s never too late to learn it though. Plus you’re making an idiotic correlation that more manpower = significant success in warfare which shows me how clueless you are, yet again. I almost feel bad having to keep pulling your skirt down.

Even Georgy Zukov, the famed Soviet WW2 general, credited FDR's Lend-Lease Act with them winning the war in his personal journal/memoir. FDR basically flew over experts in mass production (from Ford Motor Company and other companies), built a railroad network to help resupply the Soviet Army in a timely manner, and threw money and arms at the Soviet Army to ensure that they were able to modernize and successfully push back against the Nazis. The whole "throw bodies at the problem" strategy never actually worked, even according to Soviet Generals. If the Soviet Army hadn't been able to modernize at the speed it did, then their asses would have been toast. We can clearly see in this current conflict how superior technology and tactics can help overcome a sheer mass of bodies. Logistics too.

 

Maybe in Europe we're better off with the Russians and the Chinese (the new "evil axis") instead of following and embracing American "ideas" that are destroying Europe.

Europe should have deployed Huawei's 5G because that's the best technology and, by the way, Huawei makes the best cellphones. However, the EU has decided, again, to continue with its economic suicide and veto companies that can provide Europe with a competitive advantage over the US. Chinese Tech is superior, and that's why the US fears the Chinese.

 

Regarding the Ukrainian strikes in Crimea, lol. Imagine losing this many battleships and submarines to an army that has no Navy. Anyone remember the Moskva warship too? Pretty much confirms to me that the Russian Navy has always been shite since Peter I.

In occupied Crimea, a destroyed submarine (in Sevastopol), destroyed landing ship, and a missile defense system all occurring in a single week. Can we grow a pair already, western nations? Putin ain’t going to do shit.

 

How is that a lot of losses, just seems normal to me? How about the time when 1 Russian tank destroyed 8 Ukrainian vehicles? Western media completely ignored this, like they do with the rest of Ukraine's losses. Tax dollars down the drain:

Reddit: One Russian tank destroys 2 Ukrainian Tanks and 6 Armored Cars

 

So you admit you haven't got a clue about what’s going on then? We can only go by the broader evidence that is in the public domain as none of us has access to any intelligence.

Explain to me again why Russian troops are occupying and attacking another sovereign nation? I’m sure we can all agree that they are actually in Ukraine and that it’s not another conspiracy. When you attack another country entirely unprovoked, you are in the wrong, no further discussion is required. Then Putin goes on video threatening to nuke the world and you are suckling on his ballsack. What on Earth has happened to this generation?

I get the allure of having an alternative point of view, but everything seems to turn into a conspiracy nowadays. I still find it pretty fucked up that so many on here and the rest of the interwebs are on the side of a murderous dictator.

 

You aren’t very good at this. Meanwhile, there are over 5000 Russian vehicles visually confirmed to be destroyed—including Russian tanks, lost IFVs, and AFVs—from visually confirmed losses ONLY as of April 2023.

I like how in the description of that video you posted, the author emphasizes it’s a ‘non-stage footage’. Then you read the comment section and someone asks “why mention it’s a non-staged footage ?” Someone then replies with “Because most of the stuff posted here is staged because Russia is taking a beating that may end up going down as worse than the Russian Pacific fleets historic defeat over 100 years ago. So bad it has yet to recover”. Lmao.

What's even more hilarious, after browsing some content on that Russian propaganda subreddit, is that they are actually taking Ukrainian war footage (that I’m familiar with) and presenting it as their own. Thank you, I needed a good laugh today.

 

Keep thinking that Whatever makes you sleep better at night. The denial is strong in this one. If Russia was taking a beating, Zelenskiy wouldn't be whining and guilt tripping in interviews about not having enough support from the West.

Use logic sometimes. You calling me a conspiracy theorist, but you're calling all Ukrainian losses "staged by the Russian government". So, Russia is secretly buying NATO equipment, destroying it, and filming the results? Do you have any idea how dumb that sounds? Lmao. Sure, Russia is losing tanks, they'll just keep pimping out more with their near limitless resources. The EU still buys resold Russian oil.

If Russia is taking a beating, then why hasn't the Ukrainian government made any significant advancements in months, not to mention that joke of an "offensive" they had a couple months ago. Russia is playing the long game, and Ukraine will eventually lose, and Zelenskiy will sacrifice tens of thousands of Ukrainian lives to satiate his arrogance.

For the same reasons the US invaded Iraq.

I literally told you where I get my news - in Russian and Ukrainian Telegram channels, which post hourly updates with photos & Videos. Did you really misunderstand what I told you? I'm pretty sure my message was understandable. Do you want me to list their names, so you can join them and have a broader perspective other than the heavily biased New York Times/Reddit, or whatever source you use?

 

I don’t see how Ukraine can win the war with Russia when Ukraine is already running low on troops. You know Russia won’t have that problem. I also read that much of Ukraine’s infrastructure is damaged and winter is not that far away. There has to be a diplomatic solution to end this war and stop all the death and destruction it has caused.

I’m not on Putin’s side at all. He and his cronies should be tried as war criminals for invading a sovereign nation. I’m sure this will be difficult to accomplish though. I’m curious what the majority of the Russian people think of Putin and the invasion of Ukraine.

 

Sounds like we have some bots from St. Petersburg around here, lol, or people that have been misinformed to believe what they are actually saying, lol. I can't believe some of the trash talk around here. That's the hallmark of St. Petersburg trolling. Experts in divisiveness. Or so they think.

I thought the thread was going to be about war noise explosion induced hearing loss.

It turns out it is a thread about St. Petersburg trolls trying to depict the phenomenal job Joe Biden is doing in uniting the world against a crazy psychopathic mass murderer, into some kind of heinous demon.

Lol, are you making your quota of stirring up the pot anti-Biden posts, or are you so desperate for troll posting quota that you come on Tinnitus Talk in the hopes of making some cash, gee Boris, why aren't you on the front lines, oh I forgot, that would be reserved for the poverty stricken minorities in the (supposed) russkie federation being manipulated to die for a bunch of lies. Putin is using this "special operation" as a handy method to eliminate non-russkie minorities. We weren't born yesterday. And Biden has completely outsmarted the two-bit hit man on this one.

 

I asked you to post your sources so we can see the truth, and you posted nothing. Not a single thing other than a laughable Reddit video. You did what every other person does who seems to know everything, and it's usually followed with the immortal line “do your own research.” I love that line from conspiracy bros; it's as if to say that only their research is valid, and yet, we have flat Earthers believing all kinds of nonsense because they did “their own research.” It’s also about understanding what you are reading and/or seeing; what is the context, and what’s the motivation and/or what does it mean?

When one only looks for evidence that supports their beliefs it’s known as a confirmation bias, and this is currently rife on social media. I have a friend who scours the internet looking for anything to support his theories whilst largely ignoring everything else that doesn’t fit his narrative. We debate this stuff all the time.

 

I don’t read either of those, but you posted a video from Reddit, so what’s going on there? Are you criticising yourself here?

I only read Reddit for crypto stuff, very, very occasionally, but that’s about it.

 

False equivalency, whataboutism, and deflection all in one sentence. It’s getting old. You’re turning into a one trick pony.

Reading comprehensions bro. You’re having trouble keeping up now. Where have I said Ukrainian losses were staged? I don’t deny that the Russians have had some success here and there, but it’s still amusing to see you clowns go to great lengths to cover up how poorly the Russians have performed, for the supposed “second army of the world’ that they claim to be.

The only thing Russia can still do effectively is construct defensive lines and dig in. And that's what they’ve been doing these past few months. Ukraine waited too long and allowed them too much prep time. The offensive was doomed to minimal gains from the start because of that. Russian forces are bumbling idiots though because they can’t even advance either through their own minefields in order to gain any further territory. It’s a slog.

That being said, there are numerous signs indicating that Ukrainians are proceeding with caution, making slow steady progress especially recently. Russian orcs fight like idiots, so the attrition rates will still favor Ukraine by default. Ukraine was facing pressure from many people to attempt a massive foothold breakthrough, which would have been really unwise and resulted in significant casualties. They appear to be taking a more careful and measured approach, focusing on their strategic objectives like destroying logistic routes, taking hundreds pieces of artillery, etc. It's going to take a while to get through all those mines, dragon teeth, and remaining artillery safely. Meanwhile, the fact that Putin is getting more friendlier with scum like North Korea, asking for more weapons, tells me he’s getting desperate and things aren’t so hot for Russia.

The same people that believes Ukraine has failed this counteroffensive are the same people who were dooming over every street Russia took in Bakhmut. As if the Russians didn't suffer thousands of casualties trying to take that street. A lot of those same people believing the counteroffensive has failed (Tankies, Pro-Russian dipshits, etc) are the same people who think that civilians armed with small arms could defeat the US military on their own. Are you one them? I think you are.

Putin’s approval ratings have only increased since the start of this invasion at 80%. Most of them are brainwashed droids and don’t give a F about what’s happening in Ukraine, but they support it. Russians live in some weird alternate reality.

Many of them support the war, but you know what’s pathetic? When it comes time for Putin to mobilize more troops, these same people will flee en mass to other countries to avoid conscription like the cowards that they are. They’ll run away to avoid being called up, but then at the same time will still support Putin’s war from somewhere safe and away from his clutches. I have no sympathy for Russians at all. The apologists out there just don't get that if the Russian people aren't forced to change, then they won't.

 

I just told you my sources? You call me biased, yet I just told you that my sources include Ukrainian telegram news channels as well? That "laughable" video was found on a pro-Zelenskiy Telegram news channel. I asked you if you wanted me to post the channels that I'm in - you ignored the question.

 

I asked you to post specific pieces of evidence that are compelling enough to make us rethink. You didn't. You told us to go on Telegram and chase our tails, effectively. Imagine being in court and on the stand, and a lawyer asks you for specific evidence to help prove a case, and you reply “Just go on Telegram, it's on there.” Firstly, I’d say “What is on there? Show me something specific.”

I actually meant to edit that line to say that video doesn't prove anything rather than say it was laughable.

I don't want to join any Telegram channels. If you have pivotal evidence that sways the argument, then post it here. What excuse is there for Putin to invade another sovereign country and slaughter its citizens, though? It would have to be something pretty spectacular.

If he rolled into your town with tanks and starting murdering everyone in sight would you still use the same defences? Would you say it’s his right to kill all my friends and family; it’s NATOs fault, etc? Or is it because it’s someone else’s problem that is so far removed from your daily existence that you can sit and debate this stuff online like we’re critiquing a movie or something? I can guarantee you’d change your mind pretty quickly if it was you and your family that was under attack.

 

I know some Russians here in the UK - they avoid the topic and get on with their lives as normal - like it is not happening.

I suspect Putin had more support among the domestic population than is generally thought. Even those normally against Putin can become very pro-Russia when they perceive that the international community is against them - and they may be inclined to believe state propaganda.

I met a Moscow woman online a few months ago and we were getting on well until I mentioned the war - she suddenly became very aggressive and said "the truth will be twisted! there will be lies!"

Quite shocking - I stopped communicating with her.

My ex-wife of 20 years is Russian. She always loathed Putin - wanted him dead. She soon shut me down when I asked her about the war recently. She told me not to get into areas I know nothing about.

Part of my life plan is to go overseas next year and teach English and since the only foreign language I speak with any degree of proficiency is Russian - a Russian speaking nation is the obvious place to go.

If I end up in St. Petersburg (beyond the range of Ukrainian drones hopefully), I will provide some info here on the mood of the people.

 

Zelenskyy knew that Ukraine would receive help from the U.S and NATO, so he refused to speak with Russia at a negotiating table. This war, so far, has cost tens of thousands of lives, and at least hundreds of billions of dollars, and it could very well have been for nothing.

 

Well, then I guess your argument doesn't make sense, as you're declining doing something that would take you half a minute rather than making me post thousands of messages here.

You mean wasting resources on bombing Moscow city and other random useless objectives? Sounds like nice usage of tax dollars, not hypocritical at all. This situation isn't going to last much longer, hopefully. Zelenskiy is just delaying the inevitable.

 

This isn't the selfie thread