Correct. I am sorry if you are one of the victims (sounds like it from your posts) but I tried to warn people very early on. I was mocked here but still tried.
Will You Get Vaccinated for Coronavirus (COVID-19)? Can It Make Tinnitus or Hyperacusis Worse?
- Thread starter TheDanishGirl
- Start date
Member- Apr 28, 2021
- 1,881
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Trauma
A 13-year-old dies in his sleep after receiving the 2nd dose of Pfizer.
Yet, no one cares.
Michigan boy dies in his sleep three days after getting vaccine
Yet, no one cares.
Michigan boy dies in his sleep three days after getting vaccine
- Aug 21, 2016
- 352
- Tinnitus Since
- 2005
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise / T worsened with antiobiotics
The UK government published official data on the vaccines (as you can see from the link) on side effects.
Both Moderna and Pfizer are listed.
Both Moderna and Pfizer are listed.
Ummmm, why is 1968 listed as the earliest reaction date for Pfizer? Right off the bat, I am having trouble trusting data if it's potentially pulling data 50 years before a vaccine existed.
- Apr 28, 2021
- 1,881
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Trauma
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
It would be interesting to know how many total shots they have in that timeframe.
My napkin math is that even if the vaccines had zero impact on anyone's ears, here in the US we'd would expect about 28,000 people to develop tinnitus within their 5 week vaccination period, just based on the number of people who got the shot and the fact that tinnitus is incredibly common and everyone who has it had to get it sometime.
That's a much higher number than is in VAERS data here. not everyone who has a spike or reaction bothers to report to VAERS, either.
This data is useful but hard to disaggregate.
My tinnitus is still really awful. It's really fucking loud today. It feels like my right ear is worse than my left although it 'extends through the brain - I don't know how to express it in words. I did read a few posts of people expressing this and it was more detailed than how I am expressing it.
I am not afraid of COVID-19 whatsoever as it's noise and meditations that impact your tinnitus. You can't always avoid noise but there's a lot of noise in my area and I think it spikes my tinnitus at times. I don't even know what the baseline is. It's really depressing.
People can get experimental vaccines but no one will help them if their tinnitus gets worse afterwards. That is only of the few things in your control. Remember that.
- Apr 28, 2021
- 1,881
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Trauma
Oabmarcus
Member
- Mar 29, 2020
- 82
- Tinnitus Since
- 1/30/2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Stress and years of using earbuds/headphones
If you want to nitpick, 1/100000000000 cases of people dying or suffering some rare adverse effects from the vaccine, I would strongly urge you to never go out, eat or drink or even breathe. Because there are higher risks of you dying from a fluke event.
Manex
Member
- Feb 28, 2019
- 57
- Tinnitus Since
- 1995
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced 1995, Azithromycin 2018
Sorry for responding late. I try to avoid too much thinking about tinnitus. But the symptoms, while improved, have also gotten worse in some ways. They did not go back to baseline. If you have tinnitus, you know that it can be confusing what baseline is, but I definitely know it's louder in general than it was prior. I also know that I've had a lot more dizzy feelings (which I didn't have before) and a lot more spikes.
I know many people who got COVID-19 after getting vaccinated. Some of them were more or less ok, and others have still persistent symptoms... so the vaccine is not really that effective.
Isn't tinnitus a known side effect of actually getting COVID-19 too?
So - if you don't take the vaccine, better make sure you live in a bubble for the rest of your life so you don't get COVID-19 either. Disclaimer: I'm still waiting to make up my mind about the vaccine too.
So - if you don't take the vaccine, better make sure you live in a bubble for the rest of your life so you don't get COVID-19 either. Disclaimer: I'm still waiting to make up my mind about the vaccine too.
It is a known side effect of COVID-19; it's included in the list of long COVID-19 symptoms.
There's another vaccine moving in the pipeline toward distribution. It's by Novavax and is a subunit vaccine, which is a method already used for Hep B, pertussis and another common vaccine. Rather than introducing the full spike protein, it uses only a small part of the protein. According to anecdotal reports from trial participants, side effects are considerably lower compared to the other vaccines. Most reports indicate no side effects. Trials were conducted last year, too.
For those on the fence with vaccination due to potential side effects, this may be a good option.
Oabmarcus
Member
- Mar 29, 2020
- 82
- Tinnitus Since
- 1/30/2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Stress and years of using earbuds/headphones
if you don't believe us, just look at the stock price of BNTX and MODERNA, that should say something about the efficacy and safety of their vaccines.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
Hi @Juan, hope you are doing well! As for anecdotes... that's not how this works. The vaccines, especially the mRNA jabs, are staggeringly effective at preventing serious disease, hospitalization and death, and persistent symptoms among the vaccinated are much less common even though they don't necessarily associate with disease severity.
Of course people are still getting sick, no where has reached herd immunity levels and we're currently a breeding ground for vaxx resistant strains. I'd still rather be vaxxed, even if I am still masking etc, because... the vaccine is staggeringly effective at preventing serious disease, hospitalization and death, and persistent symptoms among the vaccinated are much less common even though they don't necessarily associate with disease severity.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
We have hundreds of millions of vaccinated people now and thousands of breakthrough cases to compare to hundreds of thousands of cases in unvaxxed people; the data is far from complete because we're still in the middle of a mass casualty event, but these ideas are equivocal as far as I am concerned.
I am up 28% on Pfizer stock over the last 3 months. Just sayin'.
Severe hyperacusis happens to 1 in 100.000 people, or even less. I had it. So I am not risking to get vaccinated. I am not playing the lottery on this.
If pharma companies cared about people they would not be administering vaccines and now charging more for them, as both Pfizer and Moderna raised the prices of their vaccines. They would be looking for a treatment, a drug, to cure COVID-19 after people are infected.
I never got vaccinated for flu and so far so good... and flu happens every year; people just deal with it.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
You're playing the lottery either way but COVID-19 is more dangerous for your hearing than any of the vaccines by several orders of magnitude.
Yep! In an ideal world we wouldn't have to take potentially inflammatory substances to try to stop an ongoing pandemic, but here we are.
Tens of thousands of people die of the flu every year in the US alone, and some other huge number suffer neuro damage (including tinnitus!) You may not get vaccinated but about half of the US population does every year, else these numbers would be significantly higher. So "just dealing with it" includes death or dismemberment in many cases; not great.
Sorry; I understand the anxiety about the vaccines, I felt it myself twice when I went for my jabs, but there's no evidence based reason to avoid the vaccines based on tinnitus; quite the contrary when you look at what we're learning about what COVID-19 does to hearing.
Oabmarcus
Member
- Mar 29, 2020
- 82
- Tinnitus Since
- 1/30/2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Stress and years of using earbuds/headphones
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
FWIW I had about a 7 day spike after #2, similar to what happens sometimes with a flu vaxx. It was much more minor than the spikes I get from any kind of illness.
In my real day to day life I have 4 good vaxxed friends who all have tinnitus (mild, moderate, moderate, severe). One of them experienced a spike from the vaxx that subsided in a couple weeks, and his mother (who doesn't have tinnitus) had it for a few days after the second shot. The person who has severe tinnitus said no change whatsoever from the shot, but they had previously had COVID-19 and they do feel that having COVID-19 did permanent hearing damage, they just toasted a bunch of additional high frequency hearing, proved by audiogram (pre vaccination).
You can find all sorts of other bullshit anecdotes online but if you go to the primary sources and pour over the whitepapers, it's pretty easy to conclude that:
* the vaccines may pose some tiny risk to hearing*
* COVID-19 causes hearing loss and/or tinnitus in 10-15% of cases.
That's pretty cut and dry. The asterix is because, just based on the number of Americans we've vaccinated, and the normal rate of tinnitus in the population, at this point we'd expect that 30,000 people in the US would have developed tinnitus within 2 weeks of one of their shots, and this has nothing to do with the shot, that's just the normal rate of people developing tinnitus in the US.
If it's actually 60,000 or 90,000 then that's a big problem, but last I checked there were less than 30,000 incidents related to this period in VAERS, and also keep in mind VAERS data includes a lot of people (like me!) who reported tinnitus after the jab and then had it fade.
To put things differently, in my personal life I know one person who suffered significant hearing loss from COVID-19, about six dozen people who are fully vaxxed, and no one who had any long term problems from any of the shots. People can do whatever they want but Delta scares me more than any of these other things and my experience with #1 and #2 was trivial enough that I expect to get a delta booster with no hesitation as soon as it is available.
The worst thing about the vaxx by far was the weeks of waiting to get it and wondering if it was a good idea; if I could have just signed up and boom been done same day, it would have been much less stressful.
I don't know anyone who actually vaccinates for flu every year. I know this is offered here in Spain, but I don't really know anyone who does that.
As for the COVID-19 vaccines I think many people have gone to get the jab without any considerations, and totally disinformed.
I think pharma companies have to focus on a treatment to eliminate COVID-19 symptoms after people get COVID-19, and not on vaccines.
Of course pharma companies make more money selling vaccines and raising the prices of vaccines than developing a cheap drug or treatment for COVID-19.
People have the right to know who are making money out of COVID-19, who are the ultimate shareholders and stakeholders in pharma companies profiting from this. I am sure we would find many US "philanthropies" making tons of money out of this disaster.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
Half the US does and it reduces our annual flu deaths by thousands of people a year. Flu vaccination is very common in Spain, too, and drugs apparently work just as well on the other side of the ocean as they do here (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982263/)
Why? In what way is treating something after you get it better than preventing it in the first place? Do you feel the same way about polio? I'd vastly prefer to simply never get the weird organ damaging novel disease in the first place, personally.
Pharma companies suck, sure, and they're trying to make money off this, sure.
That doesn't mean the vaccines don't work (they do) and that COVID-19 isn't super dangerous both for your body and specifically for your hearing (it is) and that the vaccines aren't a lot safer (they are). Auto companies also suck, but I need a car, you know?
You're expressing the same opinion over and over again without offering any facts, and your opinion is in direct contradiction of the huge data sets we have about the millions of people who have had the vaccines, and the even larger group that has had COVID-19 with or without the vaccine.
All I am taking away from what you're saying is a vague sense of fear and misunderstanding; you say others are "misinformed", and yet you're not offering, you know, thousands of pages of peer reviewed studies that support your viewpoint. The mainstream viewpoint is supported by science, and, generally, science works pretty well.
Good luck, I hope you don't get sick!
So what do you think of the people who are reporting new tinnitus as a result of getting vaccinated, or worsening tinnitus, on these forums? Are they lying?
I'm just going to put this out there, but with a disclaimer: that I am not interested in persuading anyone one way or the other, whether to take or not take a COVID-19 vaccine. Your decision is your decision and I'm not bothered in either case.
That out of the way, I have now done a complete U-turn regarding my position on them, and no longer intend to have one under any circumstances.
Why? Because at this point it's become a matter of principle and frankly, I find the pressure being put on perfectly healthy people to take them, creepy.
A couple of things that have led me to this decision though:
1) Governments, businesses (and other vaccinated people) around the globe now threatening fit and healthy (young) men and women with, what is effectively, cancellation, isolation (and ostracisation) if they refuse to have them.
2) Endless scare stories in the media about people who had decided against having them, then dying of COVID-19, and with their last dying breath cursing themselves for their own stupidity; meanwhile a complete deficit in reporting of the high numbers of people suffering severe adverse effects and sudden deaths during and (sometimes days) after having them administered (videos are all over the internet).
3) The fact that for a healthy person this virus (apparently) has over a 99% survival rate. (Guess this depends where you source your figures, but then, not one of the handful of people I know who would be classified as being in the "at risk category" has died, or even been hospitalised).
4) The fact that this vaccine is completely experimental (long term effects are completely unknown), and the people (including some of my own family members) who have taken it are basically the guinea pigs, in said experiment:
furthermore:
4a) most vaccines require 10-15 years of rigorous testing, first in animals, then in humans; these vaccines bypassed animal testing and were fast tracked under EUA (Emergency Use Authorisation) to be used in humans.
4b) mRNA technology has never been trialled in humans. A mRNA coronavirus vaccine was trialled on animals as far back as 2002 (during the first SARS virus appearance in China) and the results were apparently horrific when the animals were exposed to the wild form of said virus.
4c) AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson and Moderna have all been given worldwide immunity from damages occurring from the testing of these new and experimental vaccines on the global population.
At the point I've reached "4c", I'm done.
Making children take these vaccines was the last straw for me, and if it wasn't for my tinnitus, I'd be going on every anti-vax protest there was in my city.
As far as my worries about catching COVID-19 and it worsening my tinnitus: I'll reiterate, I've had COVID-19 twice. Yes, it was one of the worst flus I've had in a long time (but not the worst I've had in my life) which felt much like having a chest infection, minus any mucus to cough up; but it did not worsen my tinnitus either time, and I'm pretty confident if I were to catch it again, I'd be okay. Can't say I feel the same about these vaccines.
Again, I'm not interested in arguing with people on these points. Do your own research and make your own decision.
Just wanted to let you know, that if you don't feel comfortable taking them, and are feeling pressured against your will to do so; you're not alone, there are plenty of people who don't like what they're seeing right now.
Forgot to add, that for all this: none of these vaccines gives you immunity from COVID-19 or its variants, only lessen the associated symptoms. Not much of a pay off for the risk if you ask me.
That out of the way, I have now done a complete U-turn regarding my position on them, and no longer intend to have one under any circumstances.
Why? Because at this point it's become a matter of principle and frankly, I find the pressure being put on perfectly healthy people to take them, creepy.
A couple of things that have led me to this decision though:
1) Governments, businesses (and other vaccinated people) around the globe now threatening fit and healthy (young) men and women with, what is effectively, cancellation, isolation (and ostracisation) if they refuse to have them.
2) Endless scare stories in the media about people who had decided against having them, then dying of COVID-19, and with their last dying breath cursing themselves for their own stupidity; meanwhile a complete deficit in reporting of the high numbers of people suffering severe adverse effects and sudden deaths during and (sometimes days) after having them administered (videos are all over the internet).
3) The fact that for a healthy person this virus (apparently) has over a 99% survival rate. (Guess this depends where you source your figures, but then, not one of the handful of people I know who would be classified as being in the "at risk category" has died, or even been hospitalised).
4) The fact that this vaccine is completely experimental (long term effects are completely unknown), and the people (including some of my own family members) who have taken it are basically the guinea pigs, in said experiment:
furthermore:
4a) most vaccines require 10-15 years of rigorous testing, first in animals, then in humans; these vaccines bypassed animal testing and were fast tracked under EUA (Emergency Use Authorisation) to be used in humans.
4b) mRNA technology has never been trialled in humans. A mRNA coronavirus vaccine was trialled on animals as far back as 2002 (during the first SARS virus appearance in China) and the results were apparently horrific when the animals were exposed to the wild form of said virus.
4c) AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson and Moderna have all been given worldwide immunity from damages occurring from the testing of these new and experimental vaccines on the global population.
At the point I've reached "4c", I'm done.
Making children take these vaccines was the last straw for me, and if it wasn't for my tinnitus, I'd be going on every anti-vax protest there was in my city.
As far as my worries about catching COVID-19 and it worsening my tinnitus: I'll reiterate, I've had COVID-19 twice. Yes, it was one of the worst flus I've had in a long time (but not the worst I've had in my life) which felt much like having a chest infection, minus any mucus to cough up; but it did not worsen my tinnitus either time, and I'm pretty confident if I were to catch it again, I'd be okay. Can't say I feel the same about these vaccines.
Again, I'm not interested in arguing with people on these points. Do your own research and make your own decision.
Just wanted to let you know, that if you don't feel comfortable taking them, and are feeling pressured against your will to do so; you're not alone, there are plenty of people who don't like what they're seeing right now.
Forgot to add, that for all this: none of these vaccines gives you immunity from COVID-19 or its variants, only lessen the associated symptoms. Not much of a pay off for the risk if you ask me.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
I think that based on the normal rate that people get tinnitus at in the USA, we'd expect roughly 20,000 - 30,000 people to have developed tinnitus within 2 weeks of receiving a COVID-19 shot, without any impact from the shot itself.
This is just based on 15% prevalence of tinnitus and the fact that everyone who has it has to get it sometime, and it's napkin math but even if it's off by an order of magnitude, it's thousands of people who we'd expect to develop tinnitus unrelated to the vaccine at the same time time they got the vaccine.
This is a high enough number that it makes anecdotal information fairly useless. The actual regulatory bodies tracking clinically reported adverse symptoms are not generating any significant blips that seem concerning to me; all this data is available from both VAERS and the UK equivalent.
I don't think it's impossible that some very small percentage of people develop hearing issues as a result of an inflammatory reaction to the vaccine, but the prevalence of COVID-19-related hearing loss has been estimated at 10-15% in several studies. So, ignoring the cultural implications of the vaccine and just considering the audiology, the math is that COVID-19 is, minimally, several orders of magnitude more likely to mess your hearing up than the vaccine, and also does all sorts of other things to you that ought to be concerning.
This is the only piece of misinformation I'm going to bother to directly rebut, because it's simply incorrect: the vaccines make you substantially less likely to contract the virus in the first place, and substantially less likely to have severe symptoms if you do. It is not one or the other, it is both.
mRNA technology is pretty widely misunderstood but to me one of the more obvious applications is some of the hearing-related gene therapies we've seen in the pipeline. In several cases, interesting proteins have been identified and a central problem is how to get them into the right place; reverse transcription can likely be hijacked for these purposes as well. I imagine this forum will be ecstatic if we end up with an acceleration in hearing restoration work as a result of the widespread mRNA experiment we've done, and the fact that the lack of any problems witnessed has likely accelerated such biotech by 20-30 years in 18 months. Not to mention precision weapons against various cancers and other genetic diseases.
@linearb
I like your attitude.
You're essentially saying: "I've had mine, I feel both safe and safer than I did before I had it. If you don't want to take it, then good luck to you, not my concern.", and that to me, is a relief.
What absolutely perturbs me at this moment in time is the vaccinated who have essentially become "vaccine bullies", advocating ideas to the effect of the unvaccinated being fired from their jobs and spending the rest of their lives, essentially, under home-arrest or starving out on the street.
Even Robert Malone (the inventor of the mRNA vaccine technology) is extremely sceptical of it's application and safety in these vaccines right now, and that to me is just another red flag.
At the end of the day, there are people in my life - that have taken this vaccine based on the promise that it will give them their freedoms back - whom I love so much it actually hurts; so I sincerely hope you are correct in your analysis and instincts that this vaccine will have no serious adverse effects on the people who have taken it.
That said: at this point, based on what I've learnt, I can no longer endorse anyone else having it (or having more of it, in future "booster shots" for example) and perhaps playing Russian roulette with their lives.
All the love in the world to you and your family, and I pray we all get through this in one piece.
Damocles
I like your attitude.
You're exactly the type of guy on the other side of the fence I'd actually like to see more of.
You're essentially saying: "I've had mine, I feel both safe and safer than I did before I had it. If you don't want to take it, then good luck to you, not my concern.", and that to me, is a relief.
What absolutely perturbs me at this moment in time is the vaccinated who have essentially become "vaccine bullies", advocating ideas to the effect of the unvaccinated being fired from their jobs and spending the rest of their lives, essentially, under home-arrest or starving out on the street.
On the mRNA technology: I actually totally agree with you regarding it's future utilisations in restorative and life saving medicine; but by then I should hope the technology will have been stabilised and have gone through all the correct channels of testing.
Even Robert Malone (the inventor of the mRNA vaccine technology) is extremely sceptical of it's application and safety in these vaccines right now, and that to me is just another red flag.
At the end of the day, there are people in my life - that have taken this vaccine based on the promise that it will give them their freedoms back - whom I love so much it actually hurts; so I sincerely hope you are correct in your analysis and instincts that this vaccine will have no serious adverse effects on the people who have taken it.
That said: at this point, based on what I've learnt, I can no longer endorse anyone else having it (or having more of it, in future "booster shots" for example) and perhaps playing Russian roulette with their lives.
All the love in the world to you and your family, and I pray we all get through this in one piece.
Damocles
So are you really saying that people with no previous history of hearing disorders who got tinnitus out of the blue right after getting vaccinated... got tinnitus just because they were part of a statistic that applies to the general population and not only to those who have vaccinated? Really?
Second point: when the vaccines started to get administered there were not any list of people who "should not have it" or "should check with their doctor". Now that list is growing day by day, and it is posted here in Spain, at least in my region. However, it has some broad categories of it like "do not have the vaccine if you have an autoimmune disease or an autoimmune problem".
As sufferer of a rare hearing condition (formerly severe hyperacusis, pain hyperacusis actually) I have been tested for autoimmune diseases, and I have discussed this enough with doctors to know that this is a broad category, and that sometimes things are not black or white. Sometimes tests are inconclusive and doctors say that it's hard to diagnose a patient with an autoimmune disease unless results are really really obvious... so that got me thinking... because there may be people who have autoimmune issues and are not properly diagnosed, and there may be people who do have autoimmune issues and won't read the tiny print of "don't get vaccinated if you have this" on that website.
I find that particularly irresponsible. Governments extended a blank check (money and immunity from damages) to pharma companies.
Governments just wanted to justify they were doing something against the pandemic, even if the measures taken have been a mess.
For instance in Spain the country has been opened to tourism again, and COVID-19 cases increased a lot, with a prevalence of over 900 in 100,000 people like a week ago. Now it should be down to around 650 in 100,000 people, which is a lot.
Actually our government said that prevalence should be lower than 200 cases per 100,000 people to consider the pandemic more or less contained. It seems politicians forget their own words pretty soon.
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