Will You Get Vaccinated for Coronavirus (COVID-19)? Can It Make Tinnitus or Hyperacusis Worse?

[Ken219]

I'm waiting for better treatments or a cure for tinnitus.

 

[Tinker Bell]

You are comparing soldiers to citizens. Huge difference... Need I say more?

You failed to read the rest of my post where I mentioned citizen vaccine requirements. There is a huge difference between soldiers and children, yet vaccine requirements still exist for both.

In case you were unaware of citizen vaccine requirements, the U.S. also requires 14 different vaccinations for unvaccinated immigrants.

Unsure what more you can say because clearly the U.S. does vaccinate soldiers and citizens alike.

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefuge...tion/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html

 

[Tinker Bell]

I might just mention that there is a vast difference between the inoculations of the 1700's, and those that are being used (pedalled?) today.

Yes, inoculation in the 1700s was through variolation, a process where people were directly exposed to small pox sores by scratching it into their arms or inhaling them. People would then develop small pox symptoms and it carried a risk of death, far higher than the risk of death with current vaccination processes. There is a vast difference, and it's that today's vaccinations are safer.

I also referenced vaccine requirements currently practiced today.

 

[Juan]

So no, vaccination requirements are not unconstitutional in the U.S. and there is precedent that well establishes their legality.

So the French are more advanced in this respect than the US

 

[Damocles]

Wow. I wish I could say the same thing.

I guess when you don't see it actually happening you think it's all rainbows and unicorns. Unfortunately it isn't.

Not sure why you're quoting me here @aura...

My post in this thread exists solely as information for people undecided on the vaccine, who are being presented only with pro-vaccine propaganda and no information to the contrary i.e. the fact that this "vaccine rollout" is an ongoing experiment and a lot of perfectly healthy people are developing serious illnesses (not just (worsened) tinnitus) and dying after being given them.

Also, I like how you've zoomed in on my one piece of anecdotal evidence and completely disregarded the objective facts that I've included (which are all completely true and verifiable btw), in some kind of attempt to discredit what I've said.

Some friends of mine, young, healthy, were hospitalized for weeks.
Others died. 50, 60-year-old people without serious health problems.
Three of my friends lost a parent because of COVID-19.

Well then your friends have been very unlucky this last two years, because based on the numbers and the mortality rate of this virus, there's nothing exceptional about it.

I've never seen this happening before.

Thousands of people die of coronaviruses each year, therefore I'm surprised.

Well I guess you'll run out of doctors in a few years because almost all of us are vaccinated.

You say this like I'm the one who gave them the ultimatum of gambling with their health or losing their jobs.

I know A LOT of vaccinated people and they are just fine.

1000 COVID Stories – Share Your Story
HOME (covidvaccinedeaths.org)
C19 VAX REACTIONS - Home

I guess when you don't see it actually happening you think it's all rainbows and unicorns.

Some of them had really nasty, flu like symptoms a few days after but that was all.
Me and my husband, my parents and his parents only had a sore arm.

Yes, these are the mildest short term effects you've mentioned and experienced; most of us abstaining are concerned about the long term effects said "vaccine" will have.

I've had lots of vaccines done: DTaP, polio, MMR, influenza vaccine for the past 4 years, hepatitis b, pneumococcal vaccine, a RhoGAM shot... and I'm ok. Well... except for my tinnitus

These are all traditional type vaccines with a long history of use and low incidence of recorded adverse effects (some of them anyway, one or two are debatable).

The Moderna, Pfizer, AztraZeneca and J&J vaccines are all prototypes that have been rushed into widespread use -without yet having proved safe or effective- for no justifiable reason.

For me, as a doctor, it's simple.

I don't care about rules and masks and vaccine passports and who's making money.

Same. What do you think me or anyone else warning people about the seriousness of the situation we are finding ourselves in, has to gain by doing so?

I wash my hands, wear a mask when needed (always K95) and I got vaccinated. It's just common sense in my opinion.

So now you are at risk of catching and suffering the (potentially enhanced) effects of COVID-19 and the unknown long term health effects of an experimental vaccine too. Yeah, sounds like "common sense" to me....

I had my doubts about the vaccine.

So your instincts were telling you something wasn't right at one point.

But I've read a lot, I've asked my colleagues, people whose opinion I value and respect and I took the leap of faith.

Agreed. You took a leap of faith. Now it's simply a matter of where you land.

"FAITH: belief that is not based on proof".

You might respect those peoples opinions, but at the end of the day, THIS is the experiment, what is happening NOW is the TEST, and there is currently no conclusion to base any belief off. Those people are, just like you, simply choosing to have faith, and hoping the decision they made was the right one.

Also, as far as your "reading" was concerned, you realise google and bing are completely whitewashing their results pages. Type in almost any combination of negative question about the vaccines and barely anything will come up except "debunked myths coming from the far-right".

We, doctors, should be the first to set a good example. And we did.

@aura, this is TT. Ask most people here what their opinion on most doctors and their judgement is.

Although there were people saying that it was all an act, that we were injected with saline solution... the amount of fake news, it's just insane.

I f*cking wish it was just saline solution. If it was, I could finally sleep well at night not worrying about the people I love who have taken this sh*t.

Of course bad things can happen, they have happened before but I choose to be optimistic. So far, so good.

As I said to @linearb (if you even bothered to read my entire post...), I hope my concerns prove to be unfounded and that these vaccines have no long term implications, simply for the sake of my own loved ones. But I cannot sit idly by and see more people being pressured -by people that took the risk themselves- into putting their lives on the line as well.

If you're happy with your decision, then great, but there's no need to persuade other people it's a good idea when it isn't. Governments worldwide are doing a good enough job of this themselves already, by threatening people with the TAKE VACCINE vs NO JOB game and eventually a nice "RE-EDUCATION CAMP" if you don't.


What I really want to know: is will you risk your daughter's life and health and make her take one? then in 20 years time, when the government can put anything and everything they want inside her and your grandchildren with complete legal authority, wonder how it all came to this?

 

[linearb]

This young man's horrible experience with COVID-19 jumps out at me because the "rewiring" that seems to be responsible for his ongoing sensory problems seems very f'ing similar to what happens with tinnitus in the DCN, it's just a different set of sensory pathways in a different brain region doing the same basic "fill in the blanks" exercise and ending up resulting in chronic misery.

Also of course a lot of people with long COVID-19 also have tinnitus since COVID-19 massively fucks your hearing in 10-15% of cases per latest data I've seen.

I'm ready for my booster but I'll wait for the state to come around on it. I know people playing games to get third shots; seems like a bad idea, though granted if I lived in a regressive and packed city I might feel differently, especially since we've got decent clinical data on 3rd doses from Israel now.

 

[Damocles]

Actually it is legal in the U.S. in at-will states. Legal precedent is already being set that establishes this, too.

Plus, the "U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) issued guidance stating that employers generally can mandate COVID-19 vaccinations for employees who physically enter the workplace without running afoul of the federal anti-discrimination laws it enforces . . ."

LOL @Tinker Bell

It was also perfectly legal in communist China, in 1989, to shoot thousands of students for protesting and reading anti-government poetry out loud.

Needless to say, in todays China, it is also perfectly legal to "disappear" citizens that criticise the communist party and "re-educate" them by means of blackmail, rape and torture.

So I guess that makes it okay then!

Nothing like shifting the goal posts of morality when a corrupt government makes inhumane acts legal.

 

[Jake S]

You failed to read the rest of my post where I mentioned citizen vaccine requirements. There is a huge difference between soldiers and children, yet vaccine requirements still exist for both.

In case you were unaware of citizen vaccine requirements, the U.S. also requires 14 different vaccinations for unvaccinated immigrants.

Unsure what more you can say because clearly the U.S. does vaccinate soldiers and citizens alike.

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefuge...tion/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html

Well, regardless what the government decides doesn't mean it's legal. They've over stepped their authority more times than I care to count...

We should continue this conversation another day because it's an emotional topic for me right now.

 

[Damocles]

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This young man's horrible experience with COVID-19 jumps out at me because the "rewiring" that seems to be responsible for his ongoing sensory problems seems very f'ing similar to what happens with tinnitus in the DCN, it's just a different set of sensory pathways in a different brain region doing the same basic "fill in the blanks" exercise and ending up resulting in chronic misery.

Also of course a lot of people with long COVID-19 also have tinnitus since COVID-19 massively fucks your hearing in 10-15% of cases per latest data I've seen.

I'm ready for my booster but I'll wait for the state to come around on it. I know people playing games to get third shots; seems like a bad idea, though granted if I lived in a regressive and packed city I might feel differently, especially since we've got decent clinical data on 3rd doses from Israel now.

Don't worry joey, nothing to say you can't have both; chances are you could have taken the vaccine before you caught the virus, been f*cked up by that, and then f*cked up by COVID-19 as well.

 

[Damocles]

Vaccine requirements for private citizens are not prohibited by the constitution either. Healthy children are required to receive a wide range of vaccinations in order to attend public schools and universities

Was going to contradict you here, because I personally know several people over in the US who have never had any vaccinations, from when they were children, up to now.

Then I saw this:

but this varies by states.

I didn't know this, but thank god, because seriously, who the f*ck would choose to live in any state where this was the norm?

At least if you were pro-choice, and that includes for things like choice to undergo abortion for unwanted pregnancies -something that laughably the same people who are pushing vaccines support, despite it being the exact same principle- you could up state and relocate somewhere else.

But that's not going to be an option if this madness doesn't get stopped in it's tracks soon. Sh*t, you're not even going to be able to leave the state you're in without one of those shiny new "vaccine passports".

In case you were unaware of citizen vaccine requirements, the U.S. also requires 14 different vaccinations for unvaccinated immigrants.

Yes, I'm sure they've all had their "jabs".

 

[GlennS]

I see this thread is starting to revolve around one very strident anti-vaxxer (Damocles, a fitting username).

Here's the thing. Progress can be scary. mRNA was new but if the sky was gonna fall, it would have by now. Those who are still holding out are succumbing to fearmongering and are causing much more damage than any odds of mRNA side-effects. I simply do not have the patience to play whack-a-mole with stubborn people whom I know will never change opinions. The sad thing is even my own sister is part of this anti-vaxx death-cult. Heck, not even all vaccines are mRNA. Strip away the antivaxx talking points and what you are really looking at is an extreme perversion of political tribalism, hence the veering into talking points on immigration, etc... This is the same form of willful ignorance you see with climate change and what is turning out to be a fatal flaw in human character as we race the planet through its mass extinction event.

If only this were limited to a personal choice I could say make your bed and lie in it but it's not. It impacts everyone else, especially young kids who are completely filling ICU wards in our beloved red-states. Most of the rest of the world has little to no access to vaccines but our fellow Americans who can just drive down to the local drug store and get it without an appointment are sitting it out--let alone not even masking.

 

[Damocles]

For the risk to be two percent, there would need to be more than 6.5 million reports of tinnitus. VAERS may not capture all reports, but millions of people with tinnitus and auditory changes would not go unnoticed.

You would have rejected it for a side effect risk that is less than zero percent (based on the total vaccinated versus the number of VAERS reports)? Do you avoid everything that has a rare chance of impacting tinnitus? That's everything from vitamins and pain medications to some foods.

That's a much higher number than is in VAERS data here. not everyone who has a spike or reaction bothers to report to VAERS, either.

If it's actually 60,000 or 90,000 then that's a big problem, but last I checked there were less than 30,000 incidents related to this period in VAERS, and also keep in mind VAERS data includes a lot of people (like me!) who reported tinnitus after the jab and then had it fade.

This is a high enough number that it makes anecdotal information fairly useless. The actual regulatory bodies tracking clinically reported adverse symptoms are not generating any significant blips that seem concerning to me; all this data is available from both VAERS and the UK equivalent.

CDC Deletes 6,000 Deaths From VAERS | The Wellness Way

CDC Caught Deleting 150k of Vaccine Death Cases From VAERS Brighteon

I think you've both had enough VAERS for one decade.

 

[Damocles]

I see this thread is starting to revolve around one very strident anti-vaxxer (Damocles, a fitting username).

LOL @ revolving around me.

There were literally two posts by me in this thread before tonight, when someone called me out on one anecdotal experience I recounted.

Also my name is in reference to the volatile nature of living with tinnitus, but I think we both know you knew that.

Here's the thing. Progress can be scary. mRNA was new but if the sky was gonna fall, it would have by now.

Oh okay, because you're the gatekeeper on the parameters of time "long term" effects span? Interesting.

Those who are still holding out are succumbing to fearmongering and are causing much more damage than any odds of mRNA side-effects.

How so? Pretty sure the max damage is rolling the dice with an unproven drug, while remaining vulnerable to said virus and continuing to spread it.

I simply do not have the patience to play whack-a-mole with stubborn people whom I know will never change opinions.

Um... I would happily take a vaccine if anyone could provide persuasive evidence that one would be beneficial to me or anyone else... especially teenagers and children with fantastic immune systems.

Heck, not even all vaccines are mRNA.

Agreed, there is Novavax and others on their way.

If you read through the thread, you'll see I've recommended such vaccines to people if they really are left with no other choice due to the coercive measures placed on them by their governments and employers.

Again, I'd take one of these if anyone could provide persuasive evidence that it would be any better than my own immune system, which has been exposed to the virus twice.

Strip away the antivaxx talking points and what you are really looking at is an extreme perversion of political tribalism, hence the veering into talking points on immigration, etc...

@Tinker Bell brought up immigration, and it's relevant: because while native European and U.S citizens are being asked to take a dangerous prototype vaccine, you literally have hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated African, Middle Eastern and South American illegal immigrants sauntering through the boarders and going wherever they please! All this while ordinary legal citizens are being told they're going to need vaccine passports to go to the next state over, or to work (that doesn't seem insane to you?)

This is the same form of willful ignorance you see with climate change and what is turning out to be a fatal flaw in human character as we race the planet through its mass extinction event.

I believe in climate change. I think you'll find the ignorant are the people that try to pigeon-hole one political perspective to an entire political paradigm. You can believe in climate change and not believe experimental vaccines that were never properly tested are safe...

If only this were limited to a personal choice I could say make your bed and lie in it but it's not. It impacts everyone else, especially young kids who are completely filling ICU wards in our beloved red-states.

Please do (say it). Because the fact you're vaccinated doesn't mean you're no longer spreading the virus (feel free to look into that). So what are you doing that I'm not to "save the world" @GlennS?

Also, agreed, kids are at huge risk right now, due to the dogmatic belief that "everyone must be vaccinated no matter what".

Unvaccinated kids "filling ICU wards", are you serious? Give me a break, even the WHO didn't try to pull that one.

Most of the rest of the world has little to no access to vaccines but our fellow Americans who can just drive down to the local drug store and get it without an appointment are sitting it out--let alone not even masking.

Don't care about masks, even I wear one to the store; covers up the dry skin around my beard from the dermatitis.

Oh and for the record: I'm not an "anti-vaxxer". Plan on getting my tetanus booster shot this year, but I guess that's the difference between people that scrutinise information and people that don't... assumptions.

 

[Kriszti]

I'm ready for my booster but I'll wait for the state to come around on it. I know people playing games to get third shots; seems like a bad idea, though granted if I lived in a regressive and packed city I might feel differently, especially since we've got decent clinical data on 3rd doses from Israel now.

Here, in Hungary, people at risk and elderly people can sign up legally for the third shot. Policy is in favor of heterologous vaccination (Hope I use the correct term, I mean the third vaccine should be a different method than the previous ones.). My parents will get a Pfizer jab, because Sinopharm resulted in low antibodies count in their case. I'm not sure about the correlation of the low antibodies and the immunity, I read so many contradictory info.

I wanted to ask you guys whether is it common in your countries to test one's antibodies level?

 

[linearb]

Tthe power of the US government to mandate vaccination is fully federal, it's based on Supreme Court precedent from 1861.

Unvaccinated kids "filling ICU wards", are you serious? Give me a break, even the WHO didn't try to pull that one.

...??

Number of US children hospitalized with COVID-19 hits record; Dallas out of pediatric ICU beds

Pediatric ICU beds over 70 percent full in Tennessee, according to state report

'Your child will wait for another child to die': No pediatric ICU beds left in Dallas

Is there a conspiracy to make these numbers up, and multiple news agencies in different states, including a Fox affiliate are all in on it?

Wow the deep state is even deeper than I thought, that's much more likely than a bunch of kids dying of a novel disease at an alarming rate.

Worth noting: by financial necessity pediatric ICUs are designed to generally operate at a majority-full capacity, with enough overhead to absorb stuff like a bad flu or RSV season. So it doesn't actually take that much of a demand surge to overwhelm capacity, especially paired with a general lack of medical personnel available due to pandemic burnout.

Nonetheless, kids are dying in Dallas who might not otherwise because there's no ICU beds for them, AZ is not looking much better and I am not thrilled to know what things are going to look like locally in 6-9 weeks.

 

[Simon85]

I've had the two Pfizer shots with no change in my tinnitus. I'd strongly encourage everyone to get vaccinated. Vaccinated people are less likely to catch, spread and suffer severe health issues as a result of COVID-19. If not for your own wellbeing then for others around you. Testing is still underway for the vaccination of children under 12. My 4 year old, for example, is unvaccinated and the protection of this group relies on us adults doing the responsible thing. I can only imagine the pain for children and their parents if a child gets put in ICU.

'This is real': Fear and hope in an Arkansas pediatric ICU

 

[Damocles]

Tthe power of the US government to mandate vaccination is fully federal, it's based on Supreme Court precedent from 1861.

See my earlier post to @Tinker Bell on that. Legality =/= Morality.

"Unvaccinated kids "filling ICU wards", are you serious? Give me a break, even the WHO didn't try to pull that one."

...??

Number of US children hospitalized with COVID-19 hits record; Dallas out of pediatric ICU beds

Pediatric ICU beds over 70 percent full in Tennessee, according to state report

'Your child will wait for another child to die': No pediatric ICU beds left in Dallas

Crazy thing:
Update – World Health Organization Recommends: "Children Should Not Be Vaccinated" – NewsWars

Weird how just last year we were told the only risk concerning COVID-19 and children was that they themselves could become vectors and pose a threat to the "at risk". Now they're dropping like flies.

In fact, forget last year, I only read this article last month...

Covid: Children's extremely low risk confirmed by study - BBC News

Is there a conspiracy to make these numbers up, and multiple news agencies in different states, including a Fox affiliate are all in on it?

I don't know, have you visited any of these ICUs to see for yourself?

Nonetheless, kids are dying in Dallas who might not otherwise because there's no ICU beds for them, AZ is not looking much better and I am not thrilled to know what things are going to look like locally in 6-9 weeks.

It'll be nothing compared to what you're going to see when they start vaccinating them...

 

[Damocles]

I've had the two Pfizer shots with no change in my tinnitus.

Yeah it doesn't make everyone's tinnitus worse. Established. Still, plenty of people whose it did. Feel free to read any of the several threads started by people that now have (worse) tinnitus as a result of it.

Also, as I've previously stated, (worse) tinnitus is just one side effect. There are others, both short and long-term... like death for example.

I'd strongly encourage everyone to get vaccinated.

You don't say...

Vaccinated people are less likely to catch

Nope.

spread

Nope.

and suffer severe health issues as a result of COVID-19.

So we're told, and yet vaccinated people are being hospitalised and dying...

If not for your own wellbeing then for others around you.

Taking the vaccine and putting your own life at risk isn't doing anything for anyone else, except lowering the population a little maybe; free up some jobs and seats on the bus.

Testing is still underway for the vaccination of children under 12.

God help them all.

My 4 year old, for example, is unvaccinated and the protection of this group relies on us adults doing the responsible thing.

Which is what? Increasing their chances of being orphaned? Injecting them with something that is potentially lethal? Carving a future for them in which they no longer have a choice regarding what happens with their own bodies?

I can only imagine the pain for children and their parents if a child gets put in ICU.

You won't have to imagine it for very long. Just keep doing what you're doing and it'll be real all too soon.

'This is real': Fear and hope in an Arkansas pediatric ICU

Lol, appreciate the link to a paywall. Maybe something we can read that backs up your position next time? Just an idea.

 

[linearb]

Paywall? Get a 12 foot ladder https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/13/children-hospitalizations-covid-delta/

The claim that in fact we don't have a capacity crisis in pediatric ICUs in multiple geographic areas is quite extraordinary, given that in all cases this is what's being reported by local news organizations on the ground as well as mainstream sources including both the FOXs and NBCs/etc.

Today, as delta infections mount, some front line doctors suggest children are being hospitalized at higher rates and with more serious illnesses because of the new variant — a still-unproven hypothesis. What is indisputable is that in a swath of low-vaccination states stretching from Florida, South Carolina and Texas, up to Indiana and Missouri, the first large wave of pediatric cases is hitting hard — overwhelming hospitals, dominating political debates over mask and vaccine mandates and throwing school reopening plans into disarray.

Linda Young, a respiratory therapist at the hospital for nearly 37 years, said these latest children with covid appear to be progressing to respiratory distress much faster and in less predictable patterns: "I have never seen anything like this." Even healthy children are being hospitalized, she said, something she had not seen in previous waves.

I wanted to ask you guys whether is it common in your countries to test one's antibodies level?

In the US as far as I know this is mostly offered by private labs and is generally sketchy in that the tests are expensive and the results are fairly unreliable. I don't know if this has changed since I looked into it a year ago, but if so it's probably just gotten more stupid and corrupt because that tends to be the things our healthcare system selects for.

 

[2noist]

Anybody with half a brain sees @linearb is the reasonable one, and @Damocles is the anti-vaxxer with nonsense conspiracy theories.

I'm proud of everyone who gets vaccinated, that shows you care about others.

 

[AfroSnowman]

Weird how just last year we were told the only risk concerning COVID-19 and children was that they themselves could become vectors and pose a threat to the "at risk". Now they're dropping like flies.

For the record the delta variant is killing children at a rate vastly above that of COVID-19 classic. If you follow the tragedy that has been unfolding in Indonesia the Government is reporting about 100 children per week dying from Delta starting about 7 weeks ago.

Devastated Indonesian parents mourn children lost to COVID-19

Really sad. I know of 2 families personally who have lost little ones, a 2-year-old and a 7-year-old.

Also the Sinovac vaccine is trash. About 200 Sinovac vaccinated MDs died here over the last couple of months.

Good news is I haven't seen any reports of mRNA vaccinated folks dying here, they are getting sick but not needing O2.

 

[Damocles]

Anybody with half a brain sees @linearb is the reasonable one, and @Damocles is the anti-vaxxer with nonsense conspiracy theories.

I'm proud of everyone who gets vaccinated, that shows you care about others.

Feel free highlight anything I've said that isn't true. In your own time, of course.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Lots of people are suffering from the vaccines, and more than just tinnitus.

We still don't have comparable data to show the effects with and without a vaccine per person. If people are still dying and spreading with the vaccine, how can we do a comparison analysis?

I have read a couple of instances of people getting COVID-19 and being fine, then getting the vaccine and getting tinnitus.

It's a small risk but man it still sucks and it's ruining lives.

 

[2noist]

Lots of people are suffering from the vaccines, and more than just tinnitus.

We still don't have comparable data to show the effects with and without a vaccine per person. If people are still dying and spreading with the vaccine, how can we do a comparison analysis?

I have read a couple of instances of people getting COVID-19 and being fine, then getting the vaccine and getting tinnitus.

It's a small risk but man it still sucks and it's ruining lives.

LOL. That's just stupid, sorry.

If you get infected with COVID-19, the risk of acquiring hearing disorders including tinnitus and having to face death, is MUCH higher than that of the vaccine.

COVID-19 is a big risk, the vaccine is a tiny risk. Which do you choose?

 

[Damocles]

Paywall? Get a 12 foot ladder https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/13/children-hospitalizations-covid-delta/

Appreciate the revised link @linearb. I have since read the incredibly emotive article.

The claim that in fact we don't have a capacity crisis in pediatric ICUs in multiple geographic areas is quite extraordinary, given that in all cases this is what's being reported by local news organizations on the ground as well as mainstream sources including both the FOXs and NBCs/etc.

Oh I see, so you're saying that off the back of this article from @Simon85, and articles like this: 'Your child will wait for another child to die': No pediatric ICU beds left in Dallas, from you...

there's no way I could possibly deny that children are at risk and we have a massive crisis on our hands unless we all get vaccinated immediately (children included). Except I can.

Here's why:

1)
(quoted from @Simon85's article)
"Linda Young, a respiratory therapist at the hospital for nearly 37 years, said these latest children with covid appear to be progressing to respiratory distress much faster and in less predictable patterns: "I have never seen anything like this."

"After many months of zero or few pediatric covid cases, we are seeing infants, children, and teens with covid pouring back into the hospital, more and more each day … I worry that we will run out of beds and staff," Heather Haq, a pediatrician for Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, tweeted recently.

"It's exhausting and nonstop," said nurse Brittany Rowell".

Told all the same things last year. Exact same sensationalism. Hospitals were "spilling over". Doctors were going to have to start choosing which patient's lives were worth saving and which weren't. Then these:

• "Empty Hospitals, Overstaffed, Not Treating Patients" – NHS Whistleblower confirms you've been lied to – Daily Expose
• Hospitals and Emergency Rooms Empty, No Coronavirus patients - YouTube

Doctors and Nurses finding time to make TikTok videos and post dance routines on YouTube despite "running out of beds and staff":

• Doctors Dance Wearing PPE Kits: COVID-19 | BOOM | Dancing Doctors | Corona Warriors - YouTube
• Charlotte nurses go viral with coronavirus dance - YouTube
• This 'Singing Surgeon' Is Bringing People Joy During the Coronavirus Pandemic (parade.com)

Seriously @linearb, do me a favour and go and visit one of those wards in Dallas, then tell us what you've found. Even better, film it for us.

2)
(quoted from @Simon85's article)
"You always have times when you cry," Shonda Grappe, a pediatric intensive care nurse, said a few hours into her shift. "Everyone is feeling this."

"Outside Room No. 5 on the third floor, where Caia lay with a stuffed frog in one hand and a stuffed seal in the other, a crowd of doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists and other specialists buzzed around her and other sick children".

Hyper-emotive language used here. Was this necessary? Why is the article trying so hard to pull on your heart strings? Pretty over-the-top if you ask me. Why not just be factual in the reporting? Maybe, I don't... there's an angle or intended goal here? (rhetorical, btw).

3)
(quoted from @Simon85's article)
"Five of those (children) were on ventilators and three were on heart-and-lung bypass machines of last resort. It wouldn't be long before more sick kids were on the way."

Funny, you'd think legit doctors wouldn't be using ventilators at this point, considering:

• Ventilators Kill | Armstrong Economics
• Ventilators: Helping or Harming COVID-19 Patients? (webmd.com)
• New Data Suggests It's Ventilators That Are Killing People (eutimes.net)
• Covid death rates dropped as doctors rejected ventilators (msn.com)
• COVID19: Are Ventilators Killing People? - Fort Russ (fort-russ.com)

4)
(quoted from @Simon85's article)
"Delta has changed a lot of things," Beyrer said. "But what has not changed is that our best protection is immunization."

Yeah, there is no immunization currently available. Current COVID-19 vaccines do not provide immunity.

Difference between immunization and vaccination - SaneVax, Inc.

"Beyrer" might want to go back to medical school...

5)
(quoted from @Simon85's article)
"Doctors at major children's hospitals say nearly all of their patients are unvaccinated. They are either under age 12 and not yet eligible for the coronavirus shots, or teens who put off the vaccine."

Frankly, I just find it amazing that none of you find it coincidental that at the exact same time questions regarding the ethics of mandating experimental vaccines for kids appeared on our TV screens, suddenly Delta Variant springs from nowhere! Oh and look it's extremely deadly to children. Well that's all we need to know, get those kids arms out and I'll get the needles!

What a joke...

 

[Damocles]

LOL. That's just stupid, sorry.

If you get infected with COVID-19, the risk of acquiring hearing disorders including tinnitus and having to face death, is MUCH higher than that of the vaccine.

COVID-19 is a big risk, the vaccine is a tiny risk. Which do you choose?

Even if that was true (which it's not (unless you'd like to prove it with some actual evidence)) it would be completely irrelevant which one killed more people, because getting ill or dying from one, does not mean you can't get ill and die from the other.

You can catch the virus, survive it, then get the vaccine, become ill and/or die.

Vice versa:

You can have the vaccine, survive it, catch the virus, become ill and die.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

All you're doing by taking the vaccine is increasing your chances of suffering a horrible side effect or death from that, along with your continued chance of catching the virus and developing a crippling health condition or dying from that also.

I've said this like 5 times already. Why don't you stop being lazy @2noist and actually read the posts in the thread?

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know about @2noist's power of judgement:

 

[AfroSnowman]

Frankly, I just find it amazing that none of you find it coincidental that at the exact same time questions regarding the ethics of mandating experimental vaccines for kids appeared on our TV screens, suddenly Delta Variant springs from nowhere! Oh and look it's extremely deadly to children. Well that's all we need to know, get those kids arms out and I'll get the needles!

All those people being buried in the mass graves in India and Indonesia must be really committed to the conspiracy to get kids in the UK and USA vaccinated. What a bunch of manipulative jerks.

For most of July when the Delta variant really got going here I'd hear about 2 deaths a day from the families of my coworkers. As the country shut down coworkers asked for vacation time so that the could wait in line for O2 for sick family members. They would wait in line for up to 15 hours to get a tank refilled because they couldn't generate enough. Hospitals were turning people away and they had to die at home. My housekeeper's father died 10 days ago because the medical system had collapsed so he was turn away for his kidney dialysis.
Imagine killing yourself just to trick the sheeple in the UK that this was a deadly variant and that a widely used vaccine could keep you from dying What a bunch of master puppeteers.

 

[linearb]

COVID-19 is a big risk, the vaccine is a tiny risk. Which do you choose?

I think people's risk analysis on this is broken for 4 reasons:

#1 our government (and most) has mismanaged information and misled people, creating reasonable distrust

#2 there's a fake sense of agency, where getting a vaxx is a thing you do willfully and so if it bites you you regret it. If you get COVID-19 and it bones your hearing you just had "bad luck"

#3 COVID-19 is serious enough to look catastrophic if you're working on the front lines burning bodies, and at this point most people in the US likely know someone who's been severely ill with it, if not died from it, but it's still burned through a small enough percentage of the population that it's easy to pretend things should be back to normal

#4 actual data has been a moving target, as it is in any complex and unfolding global situation, but the emergence of variants (mostly Delta) as well as the increasing documentation of Long COVID-19 (especially in children) is causing massive changes in the way certain things are being viewed on a weekly basis. So, if one is primarily following the mainstream media it's easy to get the impression that "the story is changing constantly" because it is.

This is why I try to confine myself to reading the clinical data coming out of COVyID specific units, as well as whitepapers but not preprints, or, at least, if I go down the preprint rabbit hole I take it with a huge grain of salt.

As far as that data and whitepapers there's substantial of both to back up the claims that we're in a different and very dangerous situation with peditatric COVID-19 than we were a year ago. But, in that case I actually don't know how useful it is to post a hundred pages of raw data when we literally have all of our MSM sounding klaxons in near lockstep about how screwed ICU capacity is right now.

I believe that the fact that major, basically corporate pro-Republican employers like WalMart are saying "hey, you gotta be vaxxed" will ultimately be the thing that drives the numbers to where they need to be, if we get there at all. I'm not particularly comfortable with that concept because it means we're relying on corporate control to implement health programs, and I can see a future where, you know, WalMart workers go to the WalMart hospital when they get sick and take WalMart drugs and see WalMart doctors. Sort of a return to the way mining towns were run.

However, if the alternative to that is "US continues to just have huge unvaxxed population, creating perfect breeding ground for escape variants as vaxxed and nonvaxxed populations interact", that also sounds pretty shitty That's essentially the situation we've been in with the flu for decades, with the caveat that the vaccines for the flu don't work nearly as well and until recently contained mercury (lol). But, the flu is a lot less lethal than covid and even at that getting the flu fucking sucks, can cause permanent tinnitus and kills more than 10,000 Americans a year on average. Not a model to emulate, IMO, I think the "total elimination" model we pursued with smallpox is much better, and unlike the flu, the insane efficiency of the mRNA vaccines would actually make this possible if social pressures could be overcome, and if we could produce a global vaccine supply within 3-4 viral replication cycles.

Those both seem like pretty steep hills to climb, so I'm mentally prepared for things to be weird for a long time, and ultimately think that COVID-19 is going to end up changing the basic nature of society at least as much as 9/11 did (which was significant). Some of these changes could be positive, many of them will not be, and of course we'll see some amount of increased consolidation of executive, federal and state powers, just like we did post-9/11.

 

[Damocles]

All those people being buried in the mass graves in India and Indonesia must be really committed to the conspiracy to get kids in the UK and USA vaccinated. What a bunch of manipulative jerks.

For most of July when the Delta variant really got going here I'd hear about 2 deaths a day from the families of my coworkers. As the country shut down coworkers asked for vacation time so that the could wait in line for O2 for sick family members. They would wait in line for up to 15 hours to get a tank refilled because they couldn't generate enough. Hospitals were turning people away and they had to die at home. My housekeeper's father died 10 days ago because the medical system had collapsed so he was turn away for his kidney dialysis.

Imagine killing yourself just to trick the sheeple in the UK that this was a deadly variant and that a widely used vaccine could keep you from dying. What a bunch of master puppeteers.

Love that you've misconstrued me debunking mass hysteria, with me denying people are actually dying of a virus at the moment.

I notice you chose to quote me on the convenient targeting of children by the "Delta Variant" at the exact same time the world was debating "if kids should have the COVID-19 vaccine?"...

But completely chose to ignore my response to @2noist:

Seriously, why even bother putting forward an argument, if what you're putting it to is a straw man?

 

[Damocles]

For most of July when the Delta variant really got going here I'd hear about 2 deaths a day from the families of my coworkers.

And you know this was the "Delta variant" how?

As the country shut down coworkers asked for vacation time so that the could wait in line for O2 for sick family members. They would wait in line for up to 15 hours to get a tank refilled because they couldn't generate enough. Hospitals were turning people away and they had to die at home. My housekeeper's father died 10 days ago because the medical system had collapsed so he was turn away for his kidney dialysis.

Yes, agreed, people are dying of a virus. A variant? How could you possibly know? Did you get them tested?

Tell me how you think scientists test for variants please, I'm eager to hear how you think it works.

Btw, not sure which of those 2 countries you're referring to here, but you realise the population of India is huge. If you did "the napkin Math" I'm sure you'd find the amount of people dying is perfectly in keeping with a virus that has a 0.2% mortality rate.

Imagine killing yourself just to trick the sheeple in the UK that this was a deadly variant and that a widely used vaccine could keep you from dying.

The vaccine won't keep you from dying and that is based on both sound Science and conclusive data.

Not sure who you're saying has killed themselves for the purpose of tricking UK citizens, but you can easily fiddle death rates by attributing almost any cause of death in the last 2 years, to COVID-19...

What a bunch of master puppeteers.

Well, I don't know about puppeteers, but I've certainly found some easily manipulated puppets today.