Will You Get Vaccinated for Coronavirus (COVID-19)? Can It Make Tinnitus or Hyperacusis Worse?

[kestokas]

So if you are young and have no existing health conditions, then the risk/reward ratio of taking an outdated vaccine, that really only truly protects you against hospitalisation anyway, just doesn't seem worth it. This risk/reward ratio is the exact reason the all knowing scientist/health professionals are not vaccinating young children. It's too much of an unknown (risk).

That's a wrong view in my personal experience.

You'll never know how COVID-19 will affect you, but after by your own words "hospitalization only", I've got unilateral tinnitus and a bunch of other health problems (GERD, heartbeat issues), which thankfully subsided during a 3-month period, but tinnitus remained every little bit the same as after COVID-19. And my left ear is damaged and have HF hearing loss.

Also at my work, which have ~150 employees, during pre-vaccination period, three of my co-workers have been hit hard by COVID-19 (one left work because he can't work anymore because of lung problems.).

After vaccination (90% at my company, which I work for), nobody has been hit by hard COVID-19 (although many have had Delta variant of COVID-19).

I was 36 when COVID-19 hit me (sadly two-three months away from required vaccination age threshold). I had no other health problems before (especially hearing related).

 

[makeyourownluck]

That's a wrong view in my personal experience.

You'll never know how COVID-19 will affect you, but after by your own words "hospitalization only", I've got unilateral tinnitus and a bunch of other health problems (GERD, heartbeat issues), which thankfully subsided during a 3-month period, but tinnitus remained every little bit the same as after COVID-19. And my left ear is damaged and have HF hearing loss.

Also at my work, which have ~150 employees, during pre-vaccination period, three of my co-workers have been hit hard by COVID-19 (one left work because he can't work anymore because of lung problems.).

After vaccination (90% at my company, which I work for), nobody has been hit by hard COVID-19 (although many have had Delta variant of COVID-19).

I was 36 when COVID-19 hit me (sadly two-three months away from required vaccination age threshold). I had no other health problems before (especially hearing related).

I'm sorry that this is your experience, it sounds dreadful and I hope your tinnitus improves, but, the likelihood of that happening to a 36-year-old who is otherwise healthy is incredibly small.

I also think you have quoted me a bit out of context when I said 'hospitalisation only'. I was talking about risk/reward ratio, and eluding to the fact that younger folks have a greatly reduced chance of being hospitalised anyway - which is undoubtedly true.

I've known around 30 people who have had COVID-19 and only 2 struggled, one was 60 and overweight, the other over 70. I actually found out last week that I have had COVID-19 after I showed a picture of chill blains on my feet to my Rheumatologist thinking it may be something to do with my Lupus - apparently it's called 'COVID-19 toe', aside from this, I had no other symptoms, and I would be deemed an 'at risk group'. So yes, you never know, as with most things in life.

The main message I was trying to get across in my previous post still remains - the vaccine will likely become redundant as the virus mutates - the new 'extensively mutated' strain is proof of this. This makes the issues surrounding vaccination more complex.

 

[kestokas]

I'm sorry that this is your experience, it sounds dreadful and I hope your tinnitus improves, but, the likelihood of that happening to a 36-year-old who is otherwise healthy is incredibly small.

I also think you have quoted me a bit out of context when I said 'hospitalisation only'. I was talking about risk/reward ratio, and eluding to the fact that younger folks have a greatly reduced chance of being hospitalised anyway - which is undoubtedly true.

I've known around 30 people who have had COVID-19 and only 2 struggled, one was 60 and overweight, the other over 70. I actually found out last week that I have had COVID-19 after I showed a picture of chill blains on my feet to my Rheumatologist thinking it may be something to do with my Lupus - apparently it's called 'COVID-19 toe', aside from this, I had no other symptoms, and I would be deemed an 'at risk group'. So yes, you never know, as with most things in life.

The main message I was trying to get across in my previous post still remains - the vaccine will likely become redundant as the virus mutates - the new 'extensively mutated' strain is proof of this. This makes the issues surrounding vaccination more complex.

Still, vaccinated/unvaccinated hospitalization ratio is much higher at unvaccinated side (80%-20%), which cannot be dismissed. Also, vaccinated hospitalization mainly occurs for immunosuppressed people or who have many co-morbidities.

Also, when I was in the hospital, all 3 of my ward "mates" were between 30-40 years. Only one had other health problems, and other two were relatively healthy (all three were hospitalized because of oxygen shortage because of pneumonia and needed additional oxygen support). According to my country statistics, there were 57 deaths of 20-39 people age group, and only 2 vaccinated in the same age group because of COVID-19, which shows that hospitalization/death is much more likely without being vaccinated even at younger age group.

I've taken the vaccine 9 months after COVID-19 infection without any side effects, except sore arm. I admit that I was hesitating taking vaccine, because my COVID-19 antibody was very high 9 months after the infection and I was scared of making my tinnitus worse, but thankfully everything went well.

 

[makeyourownluck]

Sorry for the delay. @kestokas.

Obviously I'm not going to argue with your personal experience, or country's statistics, how could I.

Yes, the vaccines do protect against hospitalisation, I have already said this myself, but the odds of being hospitalised are low.

57 people have died, which is terrible, but in comparison to the many thousands in this age group that have had COVID-19, it is a relatively small number that's all I'm saying. To my mind I'm taking a calculated risk - I couldn't handle the vaccine making my tinnitus worse.

I also take a risk when I get in a car regularly, considering 3700 people die in road accidents everyday, and many more are seriously injured. These are the risks we take everyday without even thinking.

 

[Ed209]

Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination: guidance for healthcare professionals

 

[tpj]

Nor is fearmongering with unsubstantiated data. That's what you and a couple here are doing. Jack Straw is being the sensible and objective one if anything really... I haven't seen him saying it's not possible to get worse from the vaccine, but that it's very unlikely. And that if you get infected with the virus, you will much more likely get worse tinnitus and hearing loss. Which is all true and any credible scientist will vouch for.

I'm not fearmongering. I'm stating what has happened to me.

 

[russiancarl]

My tinnitus still hasn't settled and I am waiting until then to consider a vaccine.

I hope Novavaxx gets approved and is okay for Omicron-strain. That is my preferred vaccine at this point.

 

[Robster]

I'm not fearmongering. I'm stating what has happened to me.

Agree 100%, if someone's tinnitus is negatively affected by the vaccine then they are fully entitled to say so in this thread. I don't have any time for anti-vaxers, but there is a big difference between anti-vaxers and people who are factually stating that the vaccine adversely affected their tinnitus.

It's extremely disrespectful and illogical to group anti-vaxers and people who are stating they had an adverse reaction to the vaccine together. They are two totally different groups.

 

[Lane]

I read reports that, even though COVID-19 enters via the nose/throat, it eventually progresses south but often the vaccine kicks in by this time to contain it up top and this really felt like what happened to me on day 3.

Hi @RAA -- I've read similar reports, of it taking anywhere from 24-72 hours for the virus to migrate from the nose/throat down to the lungs. Just think of what would happen to this pandemic if everybody in the world rinsed their sinuses with a safe and effective antiviral agent every night before going to bed.

Not everybody would do it of course, but it doesn't prevent any of us from doing it for ourselves. Doing so--IMHO--would likely greatly reduce the odds of contracting COVID-19, and keeping it non-severe if we did contract it. Who needs a vaccine when you can relatively easily avoid severe COVID-19?

 

[RAA]

Hi @RAA -- I've read similar reports, of it taking anywhere from 24-72 hours for the virus to migrate from the nose/throat down to the lungs. Just think of what would happen to this pandemic if everybody in the world rinsed their sinuses with a safe and effective antiviral agent every night before going to bed.

Not everybody would do it of course, but it doesn't prevent any of us from doing it for ourselves. Doing so--IMHO--would likely greatly reduce the odds of contracting COVID-19, and keeping it non-severe if we did contract it. Who needs a vaccine when you can relatively easily avoid severe COVID-19?

Interesting point. I will be honest to say I'm not qualified enough to know if antiviral rinsing is as effective as a specific COVID-19 vaccine, but anecdotally part of the reason for me getting the vaccine was so I can lead a relatively unrestricted life when it comes to international travel (being a British national with family here in the UK yet resident and living in a foreign country).

So a word of warning on some countries' stance on this that has impacted me the last few weeks. In the UK they allow vaccinated visitors, both British like me and foreign tourists, to enter the UK if they have a vaccine passport (double/triple jabbed etc) in our country of residence, yet if just one person on your flight here to the UK tests positive you are hounded by track and trace to isolate for 10 days (unless you received your vaccine here in the UK like fellow Brits resident here), no matter if it's exactly the same vaccine used in both countries. It's a total farce and has totally put me off international travel right now after having decided to take the vaccines to try to mitigate this. If this helps anyone else travelling in these COVID-19 times avoid this then I will feel better as it's been a terrible experience I wouldn't wish on others.

 

[Jack08]

I have the option of Pfizer and Moderna boosters, both have a similar reported risk of tinnitus but many of these people will not already suffer from tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Has anyone had any info from their ENT or similar which jab may be less likely to result in otological complications?

 

[Jack Straw]

I have the option of Pfizer and Moderna boosters, both have a similar reported risk of tinnitus but many of these people will not already suffer from tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Has anyone had any info from their ENT or similar which jab may be less likely to result in otological complications?

There is an experience thread where people post their side effects.

Share Your Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccine Experience: Any Impact on Your Tinnitus or Hyperacusis?

We also did data collecting for the first two shots and it seemed like Pfizer had the least amount of side effects and for those who had a spike, the vast majority of them had it subside in less than two weeks. I am pretty sure the graph is in this thread somewhere.

 

[volsung37]

When money and science mix, the truth is often the loser.

A recent programme on Channel 4 Dispatches shows how much money Pfizer are making from a single jab costing a few cents. The UK govt is buying it for $22 a shot.

I got severe tinnitus spike following the first jab which I am still dealing with. As someone stated above, the number of people who will report tinnitus onset following vaccination will be minimal. They are in panic mode and in despair for the most part. Yet numbers are increasing. Mass coercive medication rarely leads to good outcomes. I suspect a tsunami of reports in the next year or so. But nothing will be done. The drug companies have no liability.

 

[Jack08]

There is an experience thread where people post their side effects.

Share Your Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccine Experience: Any Impact on Your Tinnitus or Hyperacusis?

We also did data collecting for the first two shots and it seemed like Pfizer had the least amount of side effects and for those who had a spike, the vast majority of them had it subside in less than two weeks. I am pretty sure the graph is in this thread somewhere.

Many thanks for this, not sure why I didn't find this thread already. It's difficult to infer anything concrete but it's nice to see something, I will try and get in touch with my ENT dept today although I suspect they aren't going to be helpful.

 

[Jack Straw]

A recent programme on Channel 4 Dispatches shows how much money Pfizer are making from a single jab costing a few cents. The UK govt is buying it for $22 a shot.

I find statements like this so interesting. I think it is well understood that it doesn't cost a lot to make, but what is being paid for is the investment the company put in to get this vaccine. We live in a capitalist society so of course they want a return on their investment. We don't know how much money they poured into getting this off the ground. Unfortunately, money is the greatest incentivize in our society and will be the only thing to keep pushing us forward in science.

I will also say I don't agree with certain drug companies charging astronomical prices for medication, but I think $22 is pretty reasonable.

 

[Starthrower]

I had to wait until this November to get both Pfizer vaccinations. No side effects at all. On the second jab just fatigue and a sore arm for one day.

I had COVID-19 in July 2020.

 

[volsung37]

I think $22 is pretty reasonable.

You have to put it in perspective.

AstraZeneca were charging the UK government cost price.

I believe Pfizer also had a significant amount of their costs paid by the US govt.

 

[Robster]

I find statements like this so interesting. I think it is well understood that it doesn't cost a lot to make, but what is being paid for is the investment the company put in to get this vaccine. We live in a capitalist society so of course they want a return on their investment. We don't know how much money they poured into getting this off the ground. Unfortunately, money is the greatest incentivize in our society and will be the only thing to keep pushing us forward in science.

I will also say I don't agree with certain drug companies charging astronomical prices for medication, but I think $22 is pretty reasonable.

You talk about the investment cost, but nearly all of this cost was covered by the US government for Pfizer and the UK government for AstraZeneca. Pfizer could charge the UK government a quarter of what they do and still make a healthy profit. I don't know if you can watch the Panorama investigation into this in the US but if you can give it a watch, as it shows Pfizer are profiteering from a pandemic. This is also a Channel 4 investigation, not an investigation by some anti-vaxer.

 

[Chris S.]

Can't make up my mind about the booster yet (had my Pfizer 1st and 2nd jabs in March and April respectively). The first Pfizer jab gave me a spike that never went back to base. I had an awful, though thankfully short-lived, extra spike after jab 2 (as well as chills, fatigue, and fever), but those (including the spike) resolved within about 30 hours after the jab. From what I am reading, the Pfizer booster is not necessarily going to provide the same protection against the Omicron as against the Delta, so, maybe, I will be waiting until a modified booster comes along in a few months.

 

[PeteJ]

I have the option of Pfizer and Moderna boosters, both have a similar reported risk of tinnitus but many of these people will not already suffer from tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Has anyone had any info from their ENT or similar which jab may be less likely to result in otological complications?

Just use your common sense. There's risk regardless of which jab you choose.

Also, it was predicted that you would need ongoing boosters and that prediction was accurate. Many "anti-vaxxers" predicted that there would be ongoing or constant variants, too, and that has been accurate so far as well.

Tinnitus sufferers risk their tinnitus getting worse by getting a COVID-19 jab - that's undeniable. But, everyone should decide for themselves if they want to roll the dice or not. But, people who decide not to shouldn't be vilified, mocked or attacked with derogatory language - they're just trying to help and exercise their freedom of choice.

 

[Clerkp]

But, people who decide not to shouldn't be vilified, mocked or attacked with derogatory language - they're just trying to help and exercise their freedom of choice.

I don't think anyone is being vilified. The question is whether there is misinformation spreading on the impact of the shots on tinnitus. I do agree with you though - it appears that this is not a risk free proposition either way and people will have to decide for themselves. I am assuming I'll be getting a yearly shot for the rest of my life; like a flu shot. Hopefully we will have a better handle on what is causing tinnitus from the shots soon.

 

[mbsq]

Which also means that if 10 to 15 percent of COVID-19 cases report tinnitus, the actual number is probably 2x that.

Why? We're talking about people who were hospitalised and observed; there's no "VAERS for COVID-19 infection". Plus, if you multiply 15 by 2 you get 30, which is about 81 million more people. When percentages and sheer volumes get to this order of magnitude, you don't just randomly get a "2x" margin of measurement error; that kind of stuff is on the low end when the discrete nature of small numbers could have such multiplicative effects. On top of all that, the mainstream media would be overjoyed to report the horrors of COVID-19 symptoms, so they're unlikely to miss the mark by that far.

 

[Chris S.]

But, people who decide not to shouldn't be vilified, mocked or attacked with derogatory language - they're just trying to help and exercise their freedom of choice.

Where I live, it's sadly the opposite. The people being vilified and attacked with all kinds of verbal abuse are the ones who got the vaccine.

I certainly understand the "freedom of choice" argument. But, at the time of a global pandemic, when being unvaccinated likely drives the infection further and risks to harm others, I am not sure if I see "freedom of choice" as having priority over public health. But I certainly agree that we need a better solution than the current jabs, given their medical side effects.

 

[mbsq]

It is common to see arguments for taking the vaccine of the following form. If you take the vaccine, the side effect X probabilities are P, and if you get infected they are Q. Compute your expected utility.

What this ignores is that after one or two doses, you may experience something and then have more information than this simple blank-slate either-or argument. Are there any studies that make claims of the form, "If you experienced X side effect after dose N, then you may have such-and-such underlying health condition, and your conditional probability of experiencing a worsening of X is P"? There should be a large enough data set to compute probabilities in this more fine-grained way.

 

[Jack Straw]

Also, it was predicted that you would need ongoing boosters and that prediction was accurate. Many "anti-vaxxers" predicted that there would be ongoing or constant variants, too, and that has been accurate so far as well.

Anti-Vaxxers in their all mighty wisdom predicted that we would need ongoing shots to protect against new variants? You mean they finally realized that it would be a similar situation to the flu shot?

 

[PeteJ]

Anti-Vaxxers in their all mighty wisdom predicted that we would need ongoing shots to protect against new variants? You mean they finally realized that it would be a similar situation to the flu shot?

Vaxxers were adamant they would only need 2 shots.

I said you would need ongoing boosters because there would be constant variants. I've predicted everything accurately.

Where I live, it's sadly the opposite. The people being vilified and attacked with all kinds of verbal abuse are the ones who got the vaccine.

I certainly understand the "freedom of choice" argument. But, at the time of a global pandemic, when being unvaccinated likely drives the infection further and risks to harm others, I am not sure if I see "freedom of choice" as having priority over public health. But I certainly agree that we need a better solution than the current jabs, given their medical side effects.

People who got the vaccine generally don't hang out with unvaccinated people and if they do, the unvaccinated people don't harass the vaccinated.

The media, government and health officials vilify the unvaccinated, though. I see it every day.

 

[Ed209]

Vaxxers were adamant they would only need 2 shots.

Since when was this the case? I thought it was highly likely that it would follow a model similar to the flu vaccine. Didn't almost everyone think this? We know that our immunity is limited, so I'm not sure what else people were realistically expecting.

I said you would need ongoing boosters because there would be constant variants. I've predicted everything accurately.

That wasn't hard to predict was it I despair at the debates on here lately.

Everyone should just do what they believe is best for them and their family. The end.

 

[Lane]

Anti-Vaxxers in their all mighty wisdom

Hi @Jack Straw -- I would encourage you to not put all "anti-vaxxers" into one group. I have a lot of anti-vaccine sentiment toward the current vaccine environment, but I'm actually pro-safe vaccines. I've discovered over the past 25-30 years that there's a great deal of malfeasance in the whole vaccine apparatus. Way too much emphasis is put on profits, and way too little emphasis on safety.

There is little effort to make vaccines safer, because it would take more research and cost money. Why do that when you have no liability for injuring people with unsafe vaccines? I get it. -- BTW, many people with ME/CFS had their devastating illness start with unsafe vaccines. One of the worst is Merck's Gardasil vaccine. Has severely injured tens of thousands of young girls--for no good reason. Killed over a 100 as well.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Everyone should just do what they believe is best for them and their family. The end.

Best advice I've seen on here lol.

 

[Brian P]

If your tinnitus was caused by Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine and it went away or improved, how long did it take? What level was your tinnitus at the beginning vs. now?