2020 US Presidential Election

[Zugzug]

Conservatives love Trump because Trump loves America and he pushes conservative policy. It is not that complicated. Although I find Trump quite likeable and humorous, we don't have to agree/love every aspect of his personal life or personality, or marry him.

I actually agree that a good President doesn't have to be your moral hero. Governing is a difficult, big picture skill; having someone look out for the greater good can be important. But there does reach a point where they shouldn't act that deplorable, divisive, childish, and frankly, useless for civil discourse.

To be honest, where I draw the line on "deplorable" is whether that leader is stoking division just to see others upset. Life is hard. You never know what someone is going through. It's extremely obvious (I see it on my own social media feeds) that Trump attracts a lot of people who get off on the suffering of others. I've seen so much "owning the libs" mentality. What does this accomplish? And yeah, liberals are starting to do this too, now that they figured out that these deplorable people want to see them suffer.

This is far different from dialogue where person A voices an opinion, person B voices a different opinion, and they are upset because their opinions are different. I guess all I'm saying is there's a way to agree with a lot of conservative policy positions and have it be genuine. The Trump family is not this -- they are antagonizing assholes.

 

[all to gain]

I actually agree that a good President doesn't have to be your moral hero. Governing is a difficult, big picture skill; having someone look out for the greater good can be important. But there does reach a point where they shouldn't act that deplorable, divisive, childish, and frankly, useless for civil discourse.

To be honest, where I draw the line on "deplorable" is whether that leader is stoking division just to see others upset. Life is hard. You never know what someone is going through. It's extremely obvious (I see it on my own social media feeds) that Trump attracts a lot of people who get off on the suffering of others. I've seen so much "owning the libs" mentality. What does this accomplish? And yeah, liberals are starting to do this too, now that they figured out that these deplorable people want to see them suffer.

This is far different from dialogue where person A voices an opinion, person B voices a different opinion, and they are upset because their opinions are different. I guess all I'm saying is there's a way to agree with a lot of conservative policy positions and have it be genuine. The Trump family is not this -- they are antagonizing assholes.

The whole thing has become tit for tat. But hasn't politics always been like that?

Where the hell are the people who are supposed to be looking out for all of us? Do they truly exist?

Trump has to go!! I just don't like the alternative either.

 

[PeteJ]

The extreme left is just as bad. It's laughable listening to those on the left who say it isn't. I live in a country that followed Marxist Leninist thought, and I've seen what it's done to the people and the country. No thanks.

I have said numerous times that the US should just get on and split already. You people are not going to see eye to eye. My saying that there could be a civil war wasn't figurative, I meant it. I don't need to be careful about anything, it is what I believe.

My point about fracking is in relation to Harris' insincerity, not about fracking itself. Whilst people in the West are getting all worked up about climate change, places like Russia and China couldn't give two hoots, so even if the US becomes the cleanest country in the world it probably won't make a massive dint in helping the environment.

Good points.

I don't always agree with you but your points here are solid.

Two more for consideration:
1) Glenn's views aren't a minority. I think close to 50% think that way. I agree that civil war isn't just a possibility, it's inevitable. There's too much division in views. The p.o.v. divide isn't minor, it's significant.

I think the U.S. isn't the only western country in that position. But, the USA is unique in their Constitution and gun rights. Predictions: look for the government, Democrat or Republican, to try to remove guns. Democrats will be more eager, extreme and hasty to do that, however.

2) Glenn's theory doesn't make sense: Trump has caused all this division and violence? So, Trump is the leader of Antifa and BLM? Most of the violence has been committed by leftist groups.

 

[Lucifer]

The whole thing has become tit for tat. But hasn't politics always been like that?

Where the hell are the people who are supposed to be looking out for all of us? Do they truly exist?

Trump has to go!! I just don't like the alternative either.

I would have liked to seen a debate between Biden and Pence. I feel like Pence is forced to support Trump even though be may not agree with some of the things that Trump is doing.

 

[Lilah]

It's extremely obvious (I see it on my own social media feeds) that Trump attracts a lot of people who get off on the suffering of others.

I guess I don't see this. The only time it even comes close to this is when conservatives fight back with facts when they come across fake news.

 

[all to gain]

Good points.

I don't always agree with you but your points here are solid.

Two more for consideration:
1) Glenn's views aren't a minority. I think close to 50% think that way. I agree that civil war isn't just a possibility, it's inevitable. There's too much division in views. The p.o.v. divide isn't minor, it's significant.

I think the U.S. isn't the only western country in that position. But, the USA is unique in their Constitution and gun rights. Predictions: look for the government, Democrat or Republican, to try to remove guns. Democrats will be more eager, extreme and hasty to do that, however.

2) Glenn's theory doesn't make sense: Trump has caused all this division and violence? So, Trump is the leader of Antifa and BLM? Most of the violence has been committed by leftist groups.

Those guns LOL. What is it about the US and guns? Nothing with being able to use guns down the gun club, but when every man, woman and child is armed to the teeth you are asking for trouble. And their cherished constitution?

The divisions have always been there, but they have just come to the fore under Trump. They would have come to the fore anyway sooner or later.

 

[PeteJ]

Those guns LOL. What is it about the US and guns? Nothing with being able to use guns down the gun club, but when every man, woman and child is armed to the teeth you are asking for trouble. And their cherished constitution?

The divisions have always been there, but they have just come to the fore under Trump. They would have come to the fore anyway sooner or later.

Go read up on US history. They established their country with guns. They had to fight for their country with guns even before the Civil War. The Founding Fathers were well aware of corrupt governments, division and potential for wrongdoings against the people so gun rights and defending yourself was important.

The division and political differences were there before Trump. I will reiterate, the leftist groups are the most violent ones but both parties are guilty of violating rights.

 

[all to gain]

Go read up on US history. They established their country with guns. They had to fight for their country with guns even before the Civil War. The Founding Fathers were well aware of corrupt governments, division and potential for wrongdoings against the people so gun rights and defending yourself was important.

The division and political differences were there before Trump. I will reiterate, the leftist groups are the most violent ones but both parties are guilty of violating rights.

I know the reason for guns, I was being slightly facetious. But really, if people wonder why the US has so many murders and police killings it is staring at them in the face. Get rid of the guns, and the number of killings will fall dramatically.

The US is still a very young country and is holding onto things like its cherished constitution because I feel it is for all intents and purposes a very conservative country in many ways; way more conservative than the UK for example. At the same time though, it has allowed many freedoms, which are fighting against its natural conservatism, and we are seeing the result of this now.

 

[PeteJ]

This article shows the hypocrisy and indifference or outright support of leftist violence:

It's a Straight Line from Biden to BLM

 

[FGG]

I wish the Republican party was more John McCain than Trump:

 

[Zugzug]

I wish the Republican party was more John McCain than Trump:

I agree with you fully. However, doesn't it say something about Obama Derangement Syndrome when this is considered "high character"? John McCain literally said that a Harvard educated, US born Senator was not a Muslim Terrorist. This is how low the bar is to not be a bigot. Conservatives love to pretend like the Obama years didn't happen -- like they didn't look for anything and everything to oppose him on the grounds that he's a Liberal.

Obamacare was apparently the worst thing ever because it was passed by Obama. Yet they never came up with a replacement. Obama successfully passed a conservative policy, they opposed it on the grounds of Obama Derangement Syndrome, and then never had a better way.

Liberals finally figured out that politics is team sport. Now the Trump supporters are seeing how stupid it is and ignoring their role in this process.

 

[PeteJ]

I know the reason for guns, I was being slightly facetious. But really, if people wonder why the US has so many murders and police killings it is staring at them in the face. Get rid of the guns, and the number of killings will fall dramatically.

The US is still a very young country and is holding onto things like its cherished constitution because I feel it is for all intents and purposes a very conservative country in many ways; way more conservative than the UK for example. At the same time though, it has allowed many freedoms, which are fighting against its natural conservatism, and we are seeing the result of this now.

Nonsense. Canada has a strict gun control policy but Toronto has lots of gun crimes, shootings etc. Why can't you liberals understand that?

Criminals will find a way to get guns.

You're comparing the US to the UK?

The UK is a police state and so is Australia. Many Western nations have enslaved their citizens even more than before. Taking guns out of citizens' hands or removing gun rights makes it even easier.

UK coronavirus response criticized as people are filmed by drones and stopped while shopping



UK police warned against 'overreach' in use of virus lockdown powers

Britain's "Police State" and the Dangers of Everyday Authoritarianism

Orwell's 1984. How police state Britain makes fact of fiction

Both 'leftist' and 'right' sources are cited. The government and police justify their increasing powers from security, "fighting coronavirus and ensuring public's health" to whatever other excuse allows them to enforce their trampling of rights. All the while, most of the public keep their heads in the sand or they're too preoccupied or scared to do anything about it.

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Trump and "right" should not exist in the same sentence. His lax mindset regarding masks and distancing has resulted in Trump becoming our super-spreader-in-chief. I really don't get how anyone could still be beating this dead horse unless they are mindless drone.

See, when you start insulting me, I stop my conversation with you. I do have a mind, Glenn. You should not be insulting others in your comments because they disagree with you.

What you are saying is that the President cannot get sick.

 

[all to gain]

Nonsense. Canada has a strict gun control policy but Toronto has lots of gun crimes, shootings etc. Why can't you liberals understand that?

Criminals will find a way to get guns.

You're comparing the US to the UK?

The UK is a police state and so is Australia. Many Western nations have enslaved their citizens even more than before. Taking guns out of citizens' hands or removing gun rights makes it even easier.

UK coronavirus response criticized as people are filmed by drones and stopped while shopping

UK police warned against 'overreach' in use of virus lockdown powers

Britain's "Police State" and the Dangers of Everyday Authoritarianism

Orwell's 1984. How police state Britain makes fact of fiction

Both 'leftist' and 'right' sources are cited. The government and police justify their increasing powers from security, "fighting coronavirus and ensuring public's health" to whatever other excuse allows them to enforce their trampling of rights. All the while, most of the public keep their heads in the sand or they're too preoccupied or scared to do anything about it.

No, it's not nonsense. The homicide rate due to guns will significantly drop.

You are right though, if someone really wants a gun they can get one, but in the UK guns are few and far between. We have a very low homicide rate, but that may be due to other things as well as the scarcity of guns, i.e. overall mentality that most people don't feel the need to arm themselves to the teeth.

And what are you doing about your liberties being taken away? Besides ranting on a tinnitus forum? NOTHING!

 

[FGG]

I know the reason for guns, I was being slightly facetious. But really, if people wonder why the US has so many murders and police killings it is staring at them in the face. Get rid of the guns, and the number of killings will fall dramatically.

The US is still a very young country and is holding onto things like its cherished constitution because I feel it is for all intents and purposes a very conservative country in many ways; way more conservative than the UK for example. At the same time though, it has allowed many freedoms, which are fighting against its natural conservatism, and we are seeing the result of this now.

You can't get rid of the guns now that there are almost 400 million guns in the US. We would be more Brazil than Australia because of this fact. There would immediately be a black market and giving cartels an increased incentive for one more thing to further traffic to the US is a really bad idea.

 

[all to gain]

You can't get rid of the guns now that there are almost 400 million guns in the US. We would be more Brazil than Australia because of this fact. There would immediately be a black market and giving cartels an increased incentive for one more thing to further traffic to the US is a really bad idea.

It certainly would be a massive task to get rid of all guns, but got to start somewhere. It's changing the mentality that's the main thing, but it could take generations to achieve.

But what's the alternative? Some countries have quite a lot of guns, like Switzerland, but don't have the problems the US does. It's mentality first and foremost.

 

[Lilah]

No, it's not nonsense. The homicide rate due to guns will significantly drop.

You are right though, if someone really wants a gun they can get one, but in the UK guns are few and far between. We have a very low homicide rate, but that may be due to other things as well as the scarcity of guns, i.e. overall mentality that most people don't feel the need to arm themselves to the teeth.

And what are you doing about your liberties being taken away? Besides ranting on a tinnitus forum? NOTHING!

The UK has a lot of knife crime. Whenever there is a knife spree in London, Paris, etc. it is all over the news here. Knife crime is virtually non existent in the U.S. That's because the criminal with the knife doesn't know if the other person has a gun. It is more difficult to kill a person with a knife, that's why the homicide rate in the U.K. is possibly lower.

 

[FGG]

It certainly would be a massive task to get rid of all guns, but got to start somewhere. It's changing the mentality that's the main thing, but it could take generations to achieve.

But what's the alternative? Some countries have quite a lot of guns, like Switzerland, but don't have the problems the US does. It's mentality first and foremost.

I agree there is room for improving background checks, etc but "just get rid of the guns" is not a feasible solution imo.

Switzerland doesn't likely have the same cartel infrastructure to immediately distribute black market guns.

But yes, mentality plays into it. I think there could be sensible gun reforms if both sides could meet in the middle.

As soon as you even *talk* about reducing guns, gun sales skyrocket. That doesn't happen as much with talks of criminal background checks and bans in the case of restraining orders etc.

 

[all to gain]

The UK has a lot of knife crime. Whenever there is a knife spree in London, Paris, etc. it is all over the news here. Knife crime is virtually non existent in the U.S. That's because the criminal with the knife doesn't know if the other person has a gun. It is more difficult to kill a person with a knife, that's why the homicide rate in the U.K. is possibly lower.

Yeah, there is a lot of knife crime, but as you say the homicide rate is lower... as in... way lower in the UK... 1.2 per 100,000 for the UK and 4.96 for the US. Obviously there are other reasons than just guns at play.

Where I am (Russia) the rate is 8.21 per 100,000, but there are way fewer guns than in the US in most places. Here it is generally a more violent society, and alcohol is often at play.

It really all comes down to mentality and not just the weapon of choice, but having more weapons in society will more than likely increase the chances of those with the mentality to kill to actually carry it out. That said, we all have knives at home, and most of us wouldn't dream of using them to hurt others.

 

[Juan]

Hi Lilah,
what does FAANG stand for?
Thanks.

FAANG = Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google = companies that do NOT pay their taxes.

 

[Juan]

President Trump Suggests 'Injecting' Disinfectant as Coronavirus Cure | NBC New York

 

[Zugzug]

Sadly, it is too late to fix the gun problem. It should have been fixed a long time ago. There are too many guns at this point, and too much of a gun culture to dream of buybacks. We're going to need a more creative solution -- one that I don't have the answer to.

We should still implement common sense gun reform, as it's better than nothing, but it won't fix the problem.

 

[Lilah]

Trump Song:



Spanish version:

 

[all to gain]

I agree there is room for improving background checks, etc but "just get rid of the guns" is not a feasible solution imo.

Switzerland doesn't likely have the same cartel infrastructure to immediately distribute black market guns.

But yes, mentality plays into it. I think there could be sensible gun reforms if both sides could meet in the middle.

As soon as you even *talk* about reducing guns, gun sales skyrocket. That doesn't happen as much with talks of criminal background checks and bans in the case of restraining orders etc.

Going off thread, but it's quite funny talking about mentality, as when I say I'm English here (I live in Russia for those who don't know) they ask me, "Yeah, but where exactly are you from?", i.e. meaning am I from England or am I from the US. Many people here do not differentiate between the two. But if they knew the cultural differences they'd understand that we are by and large a completely different people:

- religion isn't a big deal nowadays in the UK
- the gun culture simply does not exist in the UK
- the humour in the UK is based more on sarcasm and piss taking, which may be lost on many in the US
- the 'sue' culture does not exist in the UK
- the UK would never call a sporting championship a world championships when only one or two nations are taking part in it
- size isn't everything to those in the UK
- the British maybe make fun of themselves more
- and the list goes on.

I think a Britisher would find it easier to live in the US than the other way around, simply because we grow up with American culture through tv and we know the US humour and lifestyle. All that said, we still have things in common, especially due to language.

 

[Lilah]

Going off thread, but it's quite funny talking about mentality, as when I say I'm English here (I live in Russia for those who don't know) they ask me, "Yeah, but where exactly are you from?", i.e. meaning am I from England or am I from the US. Many people here do not differentiate between the two. But if they knew the cultural differences they'd understand that we are by and large a completely different people:

- religion isn't a big deal nowadays in the UK
- the gun culture simply does not exist in the UK
- the humour in the UK is based more on sarcasm and piss taking, which may be lost on many in the US
- the 'sue' culture does not exist in the UK
- the UK would never call a sporting championship a world championships when only one or two nations are taking part in it
- size isn't everything to those in the UK
- the British maybe make fun of themselves more
- and the list goes on.

I think a Britisher would find it easier to live in the US than the other way around, simply because we grow up with American culture through tv and we know the US humour and lifestyle. All that said, we still have things in common, especially due to language.

For someone who is Christian and conservative (based on American standards) it is difficult to feel at home in Europe. I know from personal experience, as I lived in Brussels for 14 months.

 

[FGG]

Going off thread, but it's quite funny talking about mentality, as when I say I'm English here (I live in Russia for those who don't know) they ask me, "Yeah, but where exactly are you from?", i.e. meaning am I from England or am I from the US. Many people here do not differentiate between the two. But if they knew the cultural differences they'd understand that we are by and large a completely different people:

- religion isn't a big deal nowadays in the UK
- the gun culture simply does not exist in the UK
- the humour in the UK is based more on sarcasm and piss taking, which may be lost on many in the US
- the 'sue' culture does not exist in the UK
- the UK would never call a sporting championship a world championships when only one or two nations are taking part in it
- size isn't everything to those in the UK
- the British maybe make fun of themselves more
- and the list goes on.

I think a Britisher would find it easier to live in the US than the other way around, simply because we grow up with American culture through tv and we know the US humour and lifestyle. All that said, we still have things in common, especially due to language.

I think the US is quite a bit more diverse than you give it credit for. Not everyone is a bible thumping gun nut. And British comedy is extremely popular here.

I lived in the UK for a year and really one of the few things that stood out to me was the lack of flags everywhere as I already mentioned. It seemed "similar enough" otherwise.

Edit: the "world series" is totally dumb though. I will give you that.

 

[all to gain]

I think the US is quite a bit more diverse than you give it credit for. Not everyone is a bible thumping gun nut. And British comedy is extremely popular here.

I lived in the UK for a year and really one of the few things that stood out to me was the lack of flags everywhere as I already mentioned. It seemed "similar enough" otherwise.

Yeah, I realise that not everybody is as you say.

We are, nowadays, made to feel ashamed to fly the English flag and to a lesser degree the British flag. Both may offend the Scottish and to a lesser extent the Welsh and Northern Irish lol

It may be though that you are more simply aware of 'others' than the average American?

 

[all to gain]

For someone who is Christian and conservative (based on American standards) it is difficult to feel at home in Europe. I know from personal experience, as I lived in Brussels for 14 months.

Maybe so, but I'm specifically talking about the UK and in particular England. Believe me, Europe is not a homogeneous entity. There is a marked difference between nations. In fact, I never say I am from Europe. For me, Europe is 'that place over the water', but I know full well that the UK is a part of the continent of Europe.

 

[OnceUponaTime]

The coronavirus spread without control in the US because Trump did not take the right measures to contain the pandemic.

@Markku

I didn't know that there was a limit of words that I could post on here. My apologies.

I was trying to make a point with the long list.

Here's the link:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/...s-decisive-actions-to-combat-the-coronavirus/

 

[FGG]

The Taliban just endorsed Trump for President.

Can you even imagine the uproar if they endorsed Obama whether he accepted the endorsement or not?