2020 US Presidential Election

And is the Republican field so weak to not have anyone other than Trump to put forward? Well, I think we saw in 2016 they didn't, because back then the GOP tried desperately to keep him from winning. The wagon circling is pathetic at this point. Get rid of him and bring some new blood in. Seriously, right now the GOP is a death-cult.
I don't think anyone that ran in 2016 could beat Trump and I don't think Romney could either. That's partially an insult to all of them but not completely. Trump just has a death grip on the party. We've seen it in the polls that have come out since the riots. Republicans don't blame him and don't want him to go. A wide majority still approve of his job.

The 2024 election cycle will be one for the history books.
 
@Born To Slay

I wonder how much the party would take into consideration his chances of winning the general.

I mean he lost this time fairly handedly and that was before the terrorist attack. No question he lost some moderate voters. Especially since Biden will falsely get a lot of credit for the vaccines. I say falsely to mean no politician should get credit, not that he's stealing Trump's credit.

Anyways, I wonder if it will be a Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders situation. I am NOT comparing Bernie to Trump, I just mean from a strategy perspective. I wonder if many people would not vote for Trump in the primaries because he's not electable to the moderate anymore.
 
You sure about that? I've seen a few celebrities mentioning that there is only unity when there is accountability which is implying that unless you apologise for voting for Trump then there is no unity. It seems people assume that those who voted for Trump supported the attack on the US Capitol which is not true at all.

I've watched a range of news from both sides so I can make an informed decision. By watching the news from one viewpoint we miss the other side's viewpoint.
Not true at all? A new poll, cited earlier here, showed that 18% of Republicans supported the riot and remember about 71% of Republicans strongly support Trump. So it seems about a quarter of his supporters support the riot. So not most but it's not just the fringe. That's a pretty decent chunk of Trump supporters.
 
You sure about that? I've seen a few celebrities mentioning that there is only unity when there is accountability which is implying that unless you apologise for voting for Trump then there is no unity. It seems people assume that those who voted for Trump supported the attack on the US Capitol which is not true at all.

I've watched a range of news from both sides so I can make an informed decision. By watching the news from one viewpoint we miss the other side's viewpoint.
They mean accountability for those who committed terrorism. They are not asking Trump voters to apologize. I'm not aware of a single celebrity who wants to hold half of America personally accountable for Trump.

But they do want to hold Trump accountable for Trump's actions. Those two things are not and should not be conflated.

And this is where it's cult behavior again. Holding Trump accountable feels like holding them accountable for his behavior to Trump followers. But that's not how it works.
 
@Born To Slay

I wonder how much the party would take into consideration his chances of winning the general.

I mean he lost this time fairly handedly and that was before the terrorist attack. No question he lost some moderate voters. Especially since Biden will falsely get a lot of credit for the vaccines. I say falsely to mean no politician should get credit, not that he's stealing Trump's credit.

Anyways, I wonder if it will be a Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders situation. I am NOT comparing Bernie to Trump, I just mean from a strategy perspective. I wonder if many people would not vote for Trump in the primaries because he's not electable to the moderate anymore.
I don't think so. They don't think he lost, they think it was stolen. A vast majority of Republicans still believe that. That's what's going to save Trump. A loser looks like shit but to them Trump a winner who was robbed.

They won't believe the polls or any experts either, they'll say Trump won in 2016, only lost in 2020 because it was stolen and he can win again in 2024.

And he numbers bear these assertions out. Every poll Trump is included in, he gets a majority. The polls since the riot show the party still loves him and still believes him. There's no indication that anything has changed. Republican politicians know this too, that's why most of them in the house voted to object to the results in PA.

Buckle up, 2024 is going to be one hell of an election.
 
If Trump had won, this whole country would have been ablaze with riots, looting, arson, and perhaps killings. Everybody knows this, so why are they pretending otherwise? The police chief of Washington DC asked, six times, for the National Guard, to handle the demonstrations, and was refused. It seems to me that somebody, most likely the Democrats, actually WANTED to let the protesters inside, so that they could blame Trump.
 
They mean accountability for those who committed terrorism. They are not asking Trump voters to apologize. I'm not aware of a single celebrity who wants to hold half of America personally accountable for Trump.

But they do want to hold Trump accountable for Trump's actions. Those two things are not and should not be conflated.

And this is where it's cult behavior again. Holding Trump accountable feels like holding them accountable for his behavior to Trump followers. But that's not how it works.
Well I hope that's not the case because I felt sorry for those celebrities that wanted to vote for Trump in the election and if they did they would have experience backlash from their peers.

Some of them did an ultimatum that if you vote for Trump we can't be friends anymore.
 
I'd like to see the Trump vaccine injected into "Cryin" Chuck's arse. ;) "Crazy" Nancy should get it the same place. (My noise is loud)


 
Well I hope that's not the case because I felt sorry for those celebrities that wanted to vote for Trump in the election and if they did they would have experience backlash from their peers.

Some of them did an ultimatum that if you vote for Trump we can't be friends anymore.
That worked both ways if you didn't notice.

I'm curious about something, though, you obviously have a problem with Twitter deleting Trump (personally, I would have banned him temporarily through the inauguration because he is currently a national security threat but it's a complicated issue and I can see both sides). You said point blank, the US was becoming more like the Chinese Government (even though Twitter is a private company).

But you also earlier said that celebrities shouldn't be allowed to discuss election candidates and who they were voting for.

These two ideas are not very consistent with each other so now I am really curious. What is your opinion on censorship?

Are you saying only politicians should be allowed to talk politics (or does that rule only apply to celebrities)?

And should free speech among politicians be unrestricted (i.e. should you be allowed to call for an angry mob to punish Mike Pence)?
 
Well I hope that's not the case because I felt sorry for those celebrities that wanted to vote for Trump in the election and if they did they would have experience backlash from their peers.

Some of them did an ultimatum that if you vote for Trump we can't be friends anymore.
I have more empathy for teachers, nurses, tinnitus and hyperacusis sufferers who are forced to work than celebrities loaded up with millions of dollars. The precious celebrities will weather COVID-19 lockdowns and any crisis just fine, that's what happens when you have 10s of millions.
 
After that FBI briefing and press release today, yikes for anyone that waltzed into the Capitol. They are talking long term case making, 20+ year sentences for organizers and militants, etc.

All entirely deserved, IMO, but this is where I get some cognitive dissonance:

upload_2021-1-12_19-31-7.png
 
What in the world? Literally no one is proposing that.

I think you might have a fundamental misunderstanding of what this is all about.

Where do you get your news from out of curiosity?
Rupert Murdoch subsidiary most likely.
I'm making a conscious choice to try to laugh about this. But my heart is broken for my country.

It's truly amazing the damage a sociopath in power can do.
The laughs, if any, will come later.
 
Those that want to impeach Trump are basically saying the 75 million people that voted for Trump are dumb.
I don't believe it's 75 million anymore. I think you're underestimating how many Republicans and Trump voting Independents are infuriated by what Trump did. Perhaps not more than 5-10%, but I suspect if the election was held again, he probably wouldn't get even 70 million votes.
I don't see any point of an impeachment of Trump. It will only add fuel to the fire by doing this.
There absolutely has to be consequences and accountability for his behavior. If he's allowed to get off scot free from the multitude of impeachable offenses he's committed over the past four years, it essentially gives free reign to the next despot that comes along (whether Repub. or Dem.) and is a little more competent than Trump at overthrowing a democracy.
The call for unity should be after people say they were wrong and that Joe Biden is President.
Especially the Republican politicians who gave credence to Trump's absurd claims about a fraudulent election. To this day--at this critical time--they're still not telling their constituents the truth. They're not telling them to "stand down". And they're still trying to gain donations and political power. Just despicable.
It seems people assume that those who voted for Trump supported the attack on the US Capitol which is not true at all.
Polls show that 45% of them do. Multiply that by the 74 millions votes Trump got, and my back of the napkin calculation tells me that comes to about 37.5 million voters. That's a lot!
I think deep down he might be a redeemable person.
That almost gets into some deep philosophical reflection. I agree with you, and believe that everybody is "redeemable". I think we're all on a common spiritual journey. We spend a number of lifetimes here, by and large immersed in a world of love vs. power. The use of both have consequences, with the use of power usually having deeply negative consequences.

But karma comes to the rescue, and allows those who've misused power to be on the receiving end of that at some later date. Which then is an opportunity to choose love going forward. In the end, we all learn, our lifetimes in this "arena" end, and we're ready for our next step(s). -- I hope nobody minds a little detour into the philosophical! :rolleyes:
 
After that FBI briefing and press release today, yikes for anyone that waltzed into the Capitol. They are talking long term case making, 20+ year sentences for organizers and militants, etc.

All entirely deserved, IMO, but this is where I get some cognitive dissonance:

View attachment 42747
The terrorists should be given hyperacusis and have to listen to Trump talk. They would be classically conditioned to properly hate him talking.
 
specially the Republican politicians who gave credence to Trump's absurd claims about a fraudulent election. To this day--at this critical time--they're still not telling their constituents the truth. They're not telling them to "stand down". And they're still trying to gain donations and political power. Just despicable.
You didn't think the 3 hour video I posted of the Georgia Election Hearings was credible?

 
That worked both ways if you didn't notice.

I'm curious about something, though, you obviously have a problem with Twitter deleting Trump (personally, I would have banned him temporarily through the inauguration because he is currently a national security threat but it's a complicated issue and I can see both sides). You said point blank, the US was becoming more like the Chinese Government (even though Twitter is a private company).

But you also earlier said that celebrities shouldn't be allowed to discuss election candidates and who they were voting for.

These two ideas are not very consistent with each other so now I am really curious. What is your opinion on censorship?

Are you saying only politicians should be allowed to talk politics (or does that rule only apply to celebrities)?

And should free speech among politicians be unrestricted (i.e. should you be allowed to call for an angry mob to punish Mike Pence)?
I agree it's a complicated issue. I'm not sure what would have been better, to ban Trump indefinitely or to ban him until the day after Inauguration Day. I feel like the second option would have been better because by then he has no power and you can let the courts deal with him.

I still believe politicians and family members of those politicians or running for office should be the only ones to say who they are going to vote for publicly. It is easy for those in the Entertainment Industry that have a following to sway the vote from one way over the other. I have no problem if they have stated who they have voted after the election has finished but before it I'm against it.

I am against censorship unless there were any words that were said to provoke violence. Now we can argue all day whether Trump said anything to incite violence at the US Capitol. There have been countless of other celebs who have provoked violence or have wished ill-will to Trump especially when he was experiencing COVID-19 but you don't see those people getting banned because apparently saying that is a good thing to the Democrats and to the Big Tech and media eyes. It is so easy for Democrats to get away with things compared to Republicans. Did people really forget the things Biden did during his years in the Senate?

Politicians should have free speech to a certain extent. If they provoke violence to anyone and I mean if it is obvious that was their intention then they should be banned.
 
You didn't think the 3 hour video I posted of the Georgia Election Hearings was credible?
@just1morething -- Quite honestly, I didn't watch it. I guess I need to have a compelling reason to start watching a 3-hour video I know absolutely nothing about. I did just now go to the video, and discovered it was covering testimony in Georgia on voting irregularities. I then noticed it was broadcast by NTD, a media outlet I'd never heard of.

So I tried to see what other kinds of videos they produce. It looked like a right wing agenda, but from there I really lacked interest. If you can distill in a few words what you think is significant in the video, and parts of the video where you think they make a compelling case, I'd consider taking a look.

But this all seems to be just about Georgia. Let's just say they did find enough evidence to overturn Biden's win in Georgia (which I doubt since the whole election was overseen by Republicans who themselves voted for Trump). That still leaves Trump another 3-4 states behind. Do you think there's evidence in a few other states to overturn the election?

You seem to think so, because I recall you saying something like, "the steal is real". Like many others have asked for, "Show me the evidence". If it's in any videos you run across, give me the details. Otherwise I'm not inclined to wade through what I think could be a 3-hour video of worn out, non-credible right-wing talking points. I may be wrong on that, but the track record of right wing media is extremely poor.
 
That Senator Schumer seems like kind of an ass to me. He said the Capital riot will live in infamy like the Pearl Harbor attack. Hardly comparable. Schumer and Pelosi are quite the pair.

View attachment 42745
An attempted coup and insurrection at the Capitol is historically huge.
 
You didn't think the 3 hour video I posted of the Georgia Election Hearings was credible?
Nope, Giuliani is full of shit and will be disbarred for lying.

The Republican Governor, SOS, and Republican electoral watchers all signed off on the election. See the video of Republican Georgian officials debunking fraud claims.

Giuliani has had every case thrown out, he is a wind bag.
 
"Gender Programs in Pakistan": Exactly why are we giving 10 million dollars of American taxpayer's money to fund this?

Here is another one: "101 million to combat 'the transnational threat of wildlife poaching and trafficking."
"New museums on the National Mall that will focus on Latinos and women, which were pushed by Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ) and Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)."

We are in the middle of the worst health crisis the world has seen in one hundred years. The money should not be given to these causes, especially not now.
The purpose of the gender programs in Pakistan is: general support for human rights, support the development of democracy in a country that has nukes and a bad history, and to undermine Islamic extremism. By extension of all of these would be to weaken monetary support for the Taliban in Afghanistan.

This is a much cheaper way in terms of lives and bang for the buck than direct military involvement. We only have to go in with guns and trillions of dollars when our long term and very cheap in comparison soft power plays fail. In comparison we spent around 2 trillion in the Afghanistan war
 
An attempted coup and insurrection at the Capitol is historically huge.
Apparently, even McConnell thinks so. If the following reporting is accurate, this seems to have the potential to be a big deal. -- There are enough votes in the Senate to remove Trump from ...

The story from CNN's Jim Acosta on Tuesday was that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is "furious" with President Donald Trump and actually "hates" him. It's a similar tale New York Times reporter Maggie Habermann reported, noting that McConnell is secretly grateful that Donald Trump is being impeached again.

But the full CNN report revealed something even more significant. There are 67 votes to remove Trump from office among the Democratic and Republican Senators. -- "Several GOP sources said on Tuesday that if McConnell supports conviction, Trump almost certainly will be convicted by 67 senators in the impeachment trial," said CNN.

"If Mitch is a yes, he's done," CNN cited one Senate GOP source who didn't want to be named. -- That leaves one man between Trump being removed from office and Trump holding power and possibly running again in 2024.​
 
Nope, Giuliani is full of shit and will be disbarred for lying.

The Republican Governor, SOS, and Republican electoral watchers all signed off on the election. See the video of Republican Georgian officials debunking fraud claims.

Giuliani has had every case thrown out, he is a wind bag.
Did you watch the testimonies at the hearings? Some were non-partisan unbiased people testifying. I thought you liked the nerdy type people lol. In most precincts in Fulton County there was 90% plus votes for Biden. That doesn't seem possible for a layman like myself to believe. Gosh my noise is terrible. Maybe the soup at Olive Garden?

The SOS of Georgia appears to be a RINO and doing a cover-up for some reason. There could be threats to him or his family... who knows?

Anyway I hope you and @Lane are doing well. :) It doesn't pay to get worked up over this. I'm really disgusted my noise is this bad though. :(
 
It's hard to follow this thread because you have sane people trying to communicate with unhinged individuals, all of whom are now in my ignore filter. My point is, don't play whack-a-mole with MAGA trolls. Engagement only legitimizes their bogus talking points.
 
Liz Cheney, No. 3 House Republican, to vote to impeach Trump

(CNN)Wyoming Republican Rep. Liz Cheney, the party's third-ranking House leader, announced on Tuesday that she will vote to impeach President Donald Trump, becoming the highest-ranking official from her party to support charging and removing him from office following the Trump-incited riot at the Capitol last week.

In a statement, Cheney, a staunch conservative, said Trump was responsible for the death and destruction that day.

"The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened without the President," said Cheney. "The President could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence. He did not."

"There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution," she added.​
.............................................................................................

I thought this was a pretty amazing apology by a (former) Trump supporter...

"I owe the Never Trumpers an apology. They were right all along." Writing at The American Conservative[/URL], Rod Dreher explains:​

What I did not foresee is that Trump would normalize cult thinking on the Right. Donald Trump did not make people lose their minds. Nobody held a gun to people's head and force them to espouse crazy things on Trump's behalf. But a lot of people did go that far.

I regret not taking the Never Trump folks more seriously back in the day. ... I am saying that the things that the Never Trumpers said about not making a deal with this devil were true, or at the very least more truthful than I gave them credit for at the time. And for that, I am sorry.​
 
I don't even really care for politics, but there are people here in Michigan who are ready for blood. I grew up in a rural white community and now live in Detroit proper where 90% of my neighbors are black. It's a definite culture shock and even going home surprises the shit outta me. The people in rural Michigan are usually very respectful people but I'm afraid something seriously bad is going to happen soon. The same group that planned to kidnap the Michigan Governor has strength and support I've never thought possible. I'm guessing an armed conflict will occur in the next 2 weeks. Maybe I'm off base but I'm guessing.
 
It's hard to follow this thread because you have sane people trying to communicate with unhinged individuals, all of whom are now in my ignore filter. My point is, don't play whack-a-mole with MAGA trolls. Engagement only legitimizes their bogus talking points.
So what have you class me as, sane or an unhinged individual?
 

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