2020 US Presidential Election

[TeeOh]

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PS: wtf. I can't stay away. Am I addicted to this thread or:
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You know how a lot of right wingers reference George Orwell, despite him going to war against them?

Another thing they do is say that this American folk song "is hated by the communists" despite Woody Guthrie being a communist lol.

The lyrics just sums up his political beliefs:

"A sign was painted said: Private Property,
But on the back side it didn't say nothing"

This is clearly a very anti-capitalist message, yet some right wingers say that this song is an anti-communist song. The comments section of the video even speaks about this non-sense the right does.



They also use this song which was written during the times of segregation before it ended, but right wingers quote the lyrics as if Bob Dylan was talking about leftists, even though I don't think leftists agreed with racism. His songs lyrics sound like he was critical of conservatives of the time, hence the title name:

 

[GlennS]

Of course the question is, who could the anti-Trump group coalesce around?

If they were smart they'd back Mitt Romney who comes out of this smelling like a rose. I don't think he was a very compelling candidate when he ran against Obama but if he decides to run again he'd be a compelling one for swing-voters inhabiting the center-right. He was a far better governor of my state than he was a presidential candidate but I know he still has those moderate policies in him if he's willing to stick to them rather than to robotically drift to the right the way he (and McCain) did in their bids. He'd be Biden's age if he ran in 2024 so if Biden can do it, he can.

 

[Zugzug]

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PS: wtf. I can't stay away. Am I addicted to this thread or:

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I'm definitely addicted. Better than being addicted to meth, but not by much.

 

[FGG]

We're past the point where people express their disagreement with keyboards. It's simply not funny anymore, no matter how crazy these QAnon adrenochrome type arguments are.

I'm making a conscious choice to try to laugh about this. But my heart is broken for my country.

It's truly amazing the damage a sociopath in power can do.

 

[Born To Slay]

If they were smart they'd back Mitt Romney who comes out of this smelling like a rose. I don't think he was a very compelling candidate when he ran against Obama but if he decides to run again he'd be a compelling one for swing-voters inhabiting the center-right. He was a far better governor of my state than he was a presidential candidate but I know he still has those moderate policies in him if he's willing to stick to them rather than to robotically drift to the right the way he (and McCain) did in their bids. He'd be Biden's age if he ran in 2024 so if Biden can do it, he can.

I agree Mitt Romney would probably be one of the better picks for the establishment to run. If Trump wins again and they immediately coalesce around Romney, Romney might have a shot but I still think he'd be the underdog.

 

[Lilah]

George Orwell was against totalitarianism, "groupthink," and censorship - these are facts. Not an expert on the Spanish Civil War, but I've read 1984 and Animal Farm.

 

[TeeOh]

I'm making a conscious choice to try to laugh about this. But my heart is broken for my country.

It's truly amazing the damage a sociopath in power can do.

Even though I always clown the guy, but there's times when I take him a little more seriously. How he evolved over the past 4 years and the way he acted in more recent times, is just far from normal.

When we are children, we are all born innocent. We all play with our toys, are afraid of the dark and cry when we are scared.

I don't know how he changed from the day he was born to now, but I can't help but to think this didn't happen to him alone.

I remember Mary Trump bringing up how his father was cold and abusive, and how when he was younger he was a lot more mentally healthy. She brought up the fact that her dad hated when Donald Trump showed emotion and it might have played into the part when she said that he didn't cry or showed any emotions when his father died.

He's an example of a person you shouldn't be and should always discourage. If you are going to raise children, or currently are, then don't follow this example and the way Trump's dad raised him.

 

[Born To Slay]

Even though I always clown the guy, but there's times when I take him a little more seriously. How he evolved over the past 4 years and the way he acted in more recent times, is just far from normal.

When we are children, we are all born innocent. We all play with our toys, are afraid of the dark and cry when we are scared.

I don't know how he changed from the day he was born to now, but I can't help but to think this didn't happen to him alone.

I remember Mary Trump bringing up how his father was cold and abusive, and how when he was younger he was a lot more mentally healthy. She brought up the fact that her dad hated when Donald Trump showed emotion and it might have played into the part when she said that he didn't cry or showed any emotions when his father died.

He's an example of a person you shouldn't be and should always discourage. If you are going to raise children, or currently are, then don't follow this example and the way Trump's dad raised him.

This is the lesson from the Trump era that I don't think is talked about enough, how do we as a society raise our kids to be better than him? And I think allowing our kids to show their emotions and not shove traits of toxic masculinity down their throats will go a long way. I hope the President sees a therapist, I think deep down he might be a redeemable person.

 

[Born To Slay]

George Orwell was against totalitarianism, "groupthink," and censorship - these are facts. Not an expert on the Spanish Civil War, but I've read 1984 and Animal Farm.

So then he'd be against Trump's own group think policy proposals? Trump has consistently tried to force every American to be patriotic and he tried to push thru a revamp of education to make it more America sycophantic, he has participated in cancel culture by leading the charge to cancel Colin Kaepernick and others and led the charge to ban flag burning despite the Supreme Court already ruling it to be protected free speech.

Silicon Valley's policies are by no means promoting freedom of expression right now but let's not act like the President is a proponent of free speech and free expression, he's on many occasions shown himself to be the opposite. The only difference is he wishes to censor different groups.

 

[Born To Slay]

Another poll released shows the same sentiment as the other poll I posted here. Only 15% of Republicans want Trump removed early and 69% say he wasn't to blame much or at all. That number only gets scarier when you factor in that 18% of Republicans actually support the capitol riots. That might sound small but remember Trump only needs 51% of Republican support to win the primary in 2024. 18 is more then a third of that. I think with the numbers we're seeing in the polls, Trump is a still force in Republican politics and he has the support to win the nomination again. Hell, I seriously question if there's a scenario where he could lose.

Most Americans blame Trump for Capitol attack but are split on his removal

So why is this so important? It's because this is likely to be a major consideration for both Dems and Reps in the legislative branch about whether or not to impeach, convict and ban him from office and both sides have incentives and disincentives to do so.

I also want people here to be emotionally prepared for a third election cycle centering around Trump, as horrifically awful as that sounds.

 

[TeeOh]

George Orwell was against totalitarianism

That is true, but that's because his ideology is very similar to anarchism (He did fight along anarchists), where he's very much against authoritarian states. Don't think Trump wouldn't embrace totalitarianism if he had unlimited powers in the government either. George Orwell would have been extremely critical of him and considered his government too authoritarian as lot of anarchists already do because they don't believe in the state and hierarchy.

"groupthink,"

The MAGA crowd is not immune to that. Why did you think they kept believing there was election fraud despite losing court case after court case?

and censorship

He was critical of censorship that serves the very powerful people first instead of the working class. In his ideal society like most anarchists, he would probably adopt some form of "censorship" where I imagine pro-racist/pro-slavery propaganda would be removed. That's what a lot of people with far left ideology believe in including anarchists who are against a government and authoritarianism as they believe it will lower harm and exploitation by following through with that which is to them is freedom, because they only see chaos in whats happening in the US and consider Washington's definition of freedom as propaganda.

 

[GlennS]

Let's not mince words here. Trump is by any definition of the word--evil.

And even more alarming, a large swath of his supporters are also evil. It's not pleasant to concede that there are elements of evil that are seductive to people. We're not as saintly as we'd like to think we are. That guy beating a cop with the American flag is no patriot, for instance.

Commentators have beaten around the bush on this, they've used terms like narcissistic, mentally ill, egotistical, bully, etc... but what we're really talking about is evil.

He fits the profile of pretty most stereotypical film villains. A good comparison would be someone like Kylo Ren in Star Wars as far as the temper tantrums, pettiness, and insecurity.



The way Kylo was lured into fighting Luke's projection or the way Khan was insulted into following Kirk into the Mutara Nebula, it's the same personality profile.

Donald Trump is the epitome of how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When he was just a goofball singing Green Acres on an awards ceremony or saying "You're Fired" on The Apprentice, it was fine. But give a man like this the presidency and it is the road to ruin.

As bad as prior presidents have been, none have been so morally corrupt as to drag the country to this point, even Nixon, and in Nixon's case he had just come off a landslide reelection WIN in 1972, not a loss. The Watergate break-in seems almost inconsequential compared to Trump's various impeachable offenses (of which Ukraine and the Capitol incitement are only two). The Georgia call alone is worse than Watergate, IMHO.

 

[Luman]

Trump and I share a Scottish ancestor, John Lyon, whose mother, Lady Janet Campbell of Glamis (1495-1537), was burned at the stake by King James V of Scotland, for high treason and witchcraft, both charges of which were untrue, as there were political reasons to kill her. Her family members was tortured on the rack, in order to force confessions against her.

If there were burnings today, Pelosi and Schumer would light the matches, to execute Trump. Since they can't do this, they're trying to impeach him and remove his Secret Service protection, which all presidents are normally granted for life.

Lady Janet is my 13th Great Grandmother, and Donald Trump's 14th. Below is a painting of her.

 

[FGG]

Trump and I share a common Scottish ancestor, Lady Janet Campbell of Glamis (1495-1537), who was burned at the stake by King James V of Scotland, for high treason and witchcraft, both charges of which were untrue, as there were political reasons to kill her. Her family members was tortured on the rack, in order to force confessions against her.

If there were burnings today, Pelosi and Schumer would light the matches, to exexute Trump. Since they can't do this, they're trying to impeach him and remove his Secret Service protection, which all presidents are normally granted for life.

Lady Janet is my 13th Great Grandmother, and Trump's 14th. Below is a painting of her.

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Then you are related Mary Trump, too, who says her uncle is a horrible human being and not to he trusted and his supporters have threatened her as a result.

 

[TeeOh]

Let's not mince words here. Trump is by any definition of the word--evil.

And even more alarming, a large swath of his supporters are also evil. It's not pleasant to concede that there are elements of evil that are seductive to people. We're not as saintly as we'd like to think we are. That guy beating a cop with the American flag is no patriot, for instance.

Commentators have beaten around the bush on this, they've used terms like narcissistic, mentally ill, egotistical, bully, etc... but what we're really talking about is evil.

He fits the profile of pretty most stereotypical film villains. A good comparison would be someone like Kylo Ren in Star Wars as far as the temper tantrums, pettiness, and insecurity.

The way Kylo was lured into fighting Luke's projection or the way Khan was insulted into following Kirk into the Mutara Nebula, it's the same personality profile.

Donald Trump is the epitome of how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When he was just a goofball singing Green Acres on an awards ceremony or saying "You're Fired" on The Apprentice, it was fine. But give a man like this the presidency and it is the road to ruin.

As bad as prior presidents have been, none have been so morally corrupt as to drag the country to this point, even Nixon, and in Nixon's case he had just come off a landslide reelection WIN in 1972, not a loss. The Watergate break-in seems almost inconsequential compared to Trump's various impeachable offenses (of which Ukraine and the Capitol incitement are only two). The Georgia call alone is worse than Watergate, IMHO.

Watch the full interview where he keeps repeating "The world is messssss", as he sounded very much like a deranged villain (like Heath Ledger's Joker). He was saying weird things like "David, David - I mean, I know you're sophisticated guy" and I remember thinking to myself "Why did he even say that?? So random" because it was so strange. A thing that a lot of crazy people do is that they speak in a very bizarre and confusing way like what I mentioned in the last sentence. Basically his mental state right now is a bit like the joker's mental state, and both were a bit goofy too.

Already shared it, but every time Trump does something chaotic or been responsible for something like the storming of the capitol, this video always pops in my mind. This used to be funny, but now it's starting to give me bad vibes:



Here's a longer version without the loud music in case it was hard to listen to his voice:

 

[Lucifer]

I feel like the impeachment of Trump is going to divide America even more. Those that want to impeach Trump are basically saying the 75 million people that voted for Trump are dumb.

There's a week to go before Joe Biden becomes President. I don't see any point of an impeachment of Trump. It will only add fuel to the fire by doing this.

 

[Zugzug]

The Georgia call alone is worse than Watergate, IMHO.

I completely agree. This President is so insane that this call is being talked about like a boo boo. If Obama did only this, he would be impeached instantly and branded as the worst President ever. I think the Georgia call could be worse than the Ukraine call.

 

[Zugzug]

I feel like the impeachment of Trump is going to divide America even more. Those that want to impeach Trump are basically saying the 75 million people that voted for Trump are dumb.

There's a week to go before Joe Biden becomes President. I don't see any point of an impeachment of Trump. It will only add fuel to the fire by doing this.

Give me a break. You're right that it's divisive, but it's certainly not the fault of the people impeaching.

Republicans always play victim. No, people like Lilah who just said that people are willing to go to war for the "truth" are causing the division. God forbid a terrorist gets held accountable.

The call for unity should be after people say they were wrong and that Joe Biden is President.

 

[Born To Slay]

I feel like the impeachment of Trump is going to divide America even more. Those that want to impeach Trump are basically saying the 75 million people that voted for Trump are dumb.

There's a week to go before Joe Biden becomes President. I don't see any point of an impeachment of Trump. It will only add fuel to the fire by doing this.

The counter argument is that by impeaching him, you may be able to ban him from holding public office again, which would make it much harder for Trump to continue to harm our democracy.

Because as I showed above, if Trump ran again, he'd be a shoo in for the GOP nomination.

 

[just1morething]

Then you are related Mary Trump, too, who says her uncle is a horrible human being and not to he trusted and his supporters have threatened her as a result.

Trump was most admired man in 2020 so he must not be all bad.

 

[Lucifer]

The call for unity should be after people say they were wrong and that Joe Biden is President.

Good luck with that. The people that voted for Trump are not going to say they were wrong for voting for him in the presidential election.

If Biden does well in the next 4 years then maybe people will admit they were wrong but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[Lucifer]

The counter argument is that by impeaching him, you may be able to ban him from holding public office again, which would make it much harder for Trump to continue to harm our democracy.

Because as I showed above, if Trump ran again, he'd be a shoo in for the GOP nomination.

The only benefit he will be scared to lose is the lifetime secret service. Other than that he can afford to lose the rest of his benefits.

 

[TeeOh]

I voted for Trump as most admired man too, but only for the laughs.

 

[Born To Slay]

The only benefit he will be scared to lose is the lifetime secret service. Other than that he can afford to lose the rest of his benefits.

Screw his benefits, the main reason they'd impeach and convict is so they could bar him from holding federal office in the future.

This is unlikely however, I'd be shocked if they could get 17 Republicans to vote for that. Trump is the Republican Party at this point.

 

[Zugzug]

Good luck with that. The people that voted for Trump are not going to say they were wrong for voting for him in the presidential election.

If Biden does well in the next 4 years then maybe people will admit they were wrong but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

I'm making a separation between Trump voters and people who support the idea that the election was rigged and that force must be used to overturn the result.

It's weird to me because in one breath, conservatives are saying that the Trump crazies represents a small number. But in the same breath, they want to say that 75 million think this way.

The people I think should apologize are the following: any big name politician, advisor, or member of the media who has enabled him.

The people I don't think should apologize are the people who like conservative policy positions and voted for him.

Doesn't it tell you something about the whole party though when it's this difficult to say that domestic terrorism is bad? It shouldn't be this dramatic.

 

[GlennS]

And is the Republican field so weak to not have anyone other than Trump to put forward? Well, I think we saw in 2016 they didn't, because back then the GOP tried desperately to keep him from winning. The wagon circling is pathetic at this point. Get rid of him and bring some new blood in. Seriously, right now the GOP is a death-cult.

 

[FGG]

Good luck with that. The people that voted for Trump are not going to say they were wrong for voting for him in the presidential election.

What in the world? Literally no one is proposing that.

I think you might have a fundamental misunderstanding of what this is all about.

Where do you get your news from out of curiosity?

 

[Luman]

Then you are related Mary Trump, too, who says her uncle is a horrible human being and not to he trusted and his supporters have threatened her as a result.

Mary Trump is resentful of Donald Trump because they had legal disputes over the estate of Fred Trump.

A "horrible human being" is a matter of opinion. I am sure that there are people who would say that Biden is a horrible human being, and the same goes for the Clintons, Pelosi, etc. I don't care about Trump's family problems, or refusal to voluntarily show his tax returns. I want the country run well and in my opinion, he did that very well. And, I may add, I did not vote for him in 2016.

If Biden had picked a halfway decent running mate, I might have voted for him, just for a change. He did not, I am not sorry that I voted for Trump, and would do the same if the election were held again tomorrow...

 

[Lucifer]

What in the world? Literally no one is proposing that.

I think you might have a fundamental misunderstanding of what this is all about.

Where do you get your news from out of curiosity?

You sure about that? I've seen a few celebrities mentioning that there is only unity when there is accountability which is implying that unless you apologise for voting for Trump then there is no unity. It seems people assume that those who voted for Trump supported the attack on the US Capitol which is not true at all.

I've watched a range of news from both sides so I can make an informed decision. By watching the news from one viewpoint we miss the other side's viewpoint.

 

[just1morething]

That Senator Schumer seems like kind of an ass to me. He said the Capital riot will live in infamy like the Pearl Harbor attack. Hardly comparable. Schumer and Pelosi are quite the pair.