2020 US Presidential Election

What percent of abortions are due to rape? I would think very low. I admit a lot more is at stake for a woman than a man. Carrying a baby full term would take a lot of responsibility that men probably can't fully relate to. Your friend's case was a very tough decision for sure. I suppose her doctor's opinion weighed in on her decision heavily. I hope her cancer is under control.
I don't know what percent of abortions are from rape (it's probably low but I have no idea what the percentage is) but imagine the implications for men if a woman had to declare rape to get an abortion.

Then imagine the implications for women who were raped if abortion was banned for them too.

I think both sides can work together to minimize abortions as much as possible by focusing on sex education and contraception.

My friend is doing well overall, thanks! She has side effects from the anti estrogen drugs and insurance won't cover the ovariohysterectomy. She is saving up for it though and knock on wood, still cancer free after 5 years.
 
if you are so enlightened and acknowledge the corruption etc., still voting for them and support makes you irrational.
First of all, I do not think I am enlightened. I consider myself a low-moderate information voter. But I disagree with your statement that voting for them makes me irrational. Your assumption is that if both parties suck, the alternative must be better. I do not see letting Trump win another term nor voting third party as a better alternative.

Where is this eutopia? Where do adults live a life exactly how they wish it was? What is the motivation to not vote? Do you believe in Accelerationism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism) Because I don't. If I did, I would consider a different decision.

I believe a country is like a massive ship. It slides into and out of chaos slowly. I don't believe in accelerationism because there are too many moving parts and political theatre to pull it off.
 
First of all, I do not think I am enlightened. I consider myself a low-moderate information voter. But I disagree with your statement that voting for them makes me irrational. Your assumption is that if both parties suck, the alternative must be better. I do not see letting Trump win another term nor voting third party as a better alternative.

Where is this eutopia? Where do adults live a life exactly how they wish it was? What is the motivation to not vote? Do you believe in Accelerationism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism) Because I don't. If I did, I would consider a different decision.

I believe a country is like a massive ship. It slides into and out of chaos slowly. I don't believe in accelerationism because there are too many moving parts and political theatre to pull it off.
You support a party you acknowledge as corrupt and they support/enable far left organizations and their agendas - to put it in simpler terms.

It is pointless for me to suggest to you what to do because you object to every point I make. Because of my tinnitus, I frankly don't give a **** but if I was not like this, I have voted for 'alternative' parties or registered an 'abstain' vote. I only claim voting for what you think is a corrupt party is foolish and irrational.
 
You support a party you acknowledge as corrupt and they support/enable far left organizations and their agendas - to put it in simpler terms.

It is pointless for me to suggest to you what to do because you object to every point I make. Because of my tinnitus, I frankly don't give a **** but if I was not like this, I have voted for 'alternative' parties or registered an 'abstain' vote. I only claim voting for what you think is a corrupt party is foolish and irrational.
Maybe this analogy would help: would you rather have an ingrown toe nail or severe frostbite on your toes? Clearly the answer is neither and you would rather have normal toes but imagine that's the *only* choice you have and if you don't chose you automatically get the frostbite.

Both parties suck but it's better to chose the one that sucks way less.
 
Maybe this analogy would help: would you rather have an ingrown toe nail or severe frostbite on your toes? Clearly the answer is neither and you would rather have normal toes but imagine that's the *only* choice you have and if you don't chose you automatically get the frostbite.

Both parties suck but it's better to chose the one that sucks way less.
Sigh. :rolleyes:

Nope.
 
lol, what you are actually doing is cherry picking the opinions of the moderate liberal and then blaming the progressive for it. Moderate liberals tend to believe that the Democratic party (though flawed) is much better than the Republican party. They may even question far deviations from the party. These people tend to get angry at the proposition of not voting or voting third party because they see a true difference.

@Christiaan, by all accounts, views the current policies from either party as not nearly good enough. You are acting like he has been shilling for the Democratic party, and is now quoted as saying that both parties are the same. Also, people can see that you claim to be a "both parties are the same" person, but your rhetoric shows significantly more concern for the left. You haven't proven anything.

It's so funny to me that you think the viewpoint of "both parties are corrupt" is so enlightened and novel. It's basically the most ordinary position possible -- hence why only ~55% of the American population votes. If you asked a random person on the street what they think of politics, they will tell you that both sides bicker and accomplish nothing.

With all due respect @Zugzug, but your ''all parties are the same'' remark is a simplification of what I have written so far & not really intellectually honest. One example is following the logic reasoning of your argument: to say that I support the idea that both parties are the same, is to say that I don't see essentially any difference between the parties in every single way. That is something that I haven't written explicitly nor implicitly. There are differences in social policies, but my main concern is that both parties supported and still support business friendly models on the misperception that trickle down economics benefits the lower class, that corporate influence in politics cannot be denied per se & that it may negatively influence democracy (serving common good).

In recent years, the Democrats have been consistently liberal on social issues (gay marriage, justice reform, abortion), but almost indistinguishable from the Republicans on economic issues. They are as likely to be as hostile to unions as Republicans, their support for free trade hurt the working class and exported the manufacturing sector (Source: the book ''Listen Liberal'', link: https://inthesetimes.com/features/l...frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality.html).

If we talk about the role of corporate money in politics, I think we both differ in that perspective in that I belief that not all companies or rich people are giving donations to parties for philanthropic reasons, but that it is also a means to get close to politicians in hopes of changing their mind or convincing them to support a certain policy. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that it is good for people in general per se. A report in 2014 (Gilens & Page, 2014) gives a clear presentation detailing the outsize degree of influence of the rich on the political system and the consequences of economic inequality on democracy in America. Their conclusion is that preferences of the rich were far more likely to shape politics than the preferences of the middle-class or poor. Here's a summary from the New Republic website:

"Economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy," the authors wrote, "while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence." As they further noted in their follow-up book, that imbalance has translated to decades of policies that have slashed taxes for the wealthy, pared back the social safety net, and deregulated Wall Street, even as broad segments of the American public support initiatives like Medicare for All, higher taxes on the rich, and government intervention in climate change'' (link: https://newrepublic.com/article/158330/democrats-cant-quit-addiction-big-money-donors)

There are examples of this happening in current politics. You might think that it is a coincidence that politicians or lobby groups change their minds/behavior after having received a donation, but sometimes it's too much of a coincidence. Here's just three example that quickly comes to mind:


· Congressman Derek Kilmer's initiative to commercialize asteroid mining after a donation from a mining company (https://kilmer.house.gov/news/in-th...congress-to-protect-private-property-rights-3)

· Governor Cuomo giving immunity to nursing home executives after big campaign donations (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-execs-immunity). As long as Citizen's united stands, this will

· Businessman Louis DeJoy donated money to Trump's campaign and later assigned US Postmaster General (https://choice.npr.org/index.html?o.../new-postmaster-general-is-top-gop-fundraiser)


About my political viewpoints: you should know that I already mentioned many times before that I am a progressive (actually balancing between social democracy, social liberalism & conservative communitarianism). That I am strongly rooted in progressivism doesn't mean I don't belief in US politics anymore because of strong ties between business and the two big parties (or ''that they are not good enough''). Change is always possible. Anyway, If I were an American, I would support Biden temporally & belief that grassroots organization, pressure on politicians and cooperation between likeminded spirits are crucial in overturning issues like Citizen's United, changing the face of Democratic Party & maybe forming a 3rd party if differences between Centrists and Progressives are too big to ignore. Public financing of political parties is a way to make parties more independent & more receptive to voters, as I have seen in my country.

And lastly, if you think I haven't proven anything, well, that's entirely fine. I at least try to substantiate my arguments about the role of money in politics (my main concern) with sources. I don't know if you had philosophy in high school, but if you want to prove the fallacy of an argument, you ought to substantiate your counter-argument with logical reasoning and (preferably) sources to disprove that. If you assume that I believe every party is the same (which I don't think at all), or that corporate money influences politics (which I do belief, but which you didn't mention), at least try to substantiate it by using logical arguments and (preferably) sources to prove otherwise OR ask Socratic questions why I have arrived at the conclusion that, indeed, all parties are the same.

Edit: It's a very cynical remark to assume that people like me criticize both parties because it's ''enlightened & novel''. Seriously? Why and how did you arrive at that conclusion?
 
The US economy right now can be summed up as:

- Real estate bubble
- Technological stocks bubble (FAANG), specially Tesla.
- Huge deficit
 
With all due respect @Zugzug, but your ''all parties are the same'' remark is a simplification of what I have written so far & not really intellectually honest. One example is following the logic reasoning of your argument: to say that I support the idea that both parties are the same, is to say that I don't see essentially any difference between the parties in every single way. That is something that I haven't written explicitly nor implicitly. There are differences in social policies, but my main concern is that both parties supported and still support business friendly models on the misperception that trickle down economics benefits the lower class, that corporate influence in politics cannot be denied per se & that it may negatively influence democracy (serving common good).

In recent years, the Democrats have been consistently liberal on social issues (gay marriage, justice reform, abortion), but almost indistinguishable from the Republicans on economic issues. They are as likely to be as hostile to unions as Republicans, their support for free trade hurt the working class and exported the manufacturing sector (Source: the book ''Listen Liberal'', link: https://inthesetimes.com/features/l...frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality.html).

If we talk about the role of corporate money in politics, I think we both differ in that perspective in that I belief that not all companies or rich people are giving donations to parties for philanthropic reasons, but that it is also a means to get close to politicians in hopes of changing their mind or convincing them to support a certain policy. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that it is good for people in general per se. A report in 2014 (Gilens & Page, 2014) gives a clear presentation detailing the outsize degree of influence of the rich on the political system and the consequences of economic inequality on democracy in America. Their conclusion is that preferences of the rich were far more likely to shape politics than the preferences of the middle-class or poor. Here's a summary from the New Republic website:

"Economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy," the authors wrote, "while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence." As they further noted in their follow-up book, that imbalance has translated to decades of policies that have slashed taxes for the wealthy, pared back the social safety net, and deregulated Wall Street, even as broad segments of the American public support initiatives like Medicare for All, higher taxes on the rich, and government intervention in climate change'' (link: https://newrepublic.com/article/158330/democrats-cant-quit-addiction-big-money-donors)

There are examples of this happening in current politics. You might think that it is a coincidence that politicians or lobby groups change their minds/behavior after having received a donation, but sometimes it's too much of a coincidence. Here's just three example that quickly comes to mind:


· Congressman Derek Kilmer's initiative to commercialize asteroid mining after a donation from a mining company (https://kilmer.house.gov/news/in-th...congress-to-protect-private-property-rights-3)

· Governor Cuomo giving immunity to nursing home executives after big campaign donations (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-execs-immunity). As long as Citizen's united stands, this will

· Businessman Louis DeJoy donated money to Trump's campaign and later assigned US Postmaster General (https://choice.npr.org/index.html?o.../new-postmaster-general-is-top-gop-fundraiser)


About my political viewpoints: you should know that I already mentioned many times before that I am a progressive (actually balancing between social democracy, social liberalism & conservative communitarianism). That I am strongly rooted in progressivism doesn't mean I don't belief in US politics anymore because of strong ties between business and the two big parties (or ''that they are not good enough''). Change is always possible. Anyway, If I were an American, I would support Biden temporally & belief that grassroots organization, pressure on politicians and cooperation between likeminded spirits are crucial in overturning issues like Citizen's United, changing the face of Democratic Party & maybe forming a 3rd party if differences between Centrists and Progressives are too big to ignore. Public financing of political parties is a way to make parties more independent & more receptive to voters, as I have seen in my country.

And lastly, if you think I haven't proven anything, well, that's entirely fine. I at least try to substantiate my arguments about the role of money in politics (my main concern) with sources. I don't know if you had philosophy in high school, but if you want to prove the fallacy of an argument, you ought to substantiate your counter-argument with logical reasoning and (preferably) sources to disprove that. If you assume that I believe every party is the same (which I don't think at all), or that corporate money influences politics (which I do belief, but which you didn't mention), at least try to substantiate it by using logical arguments and (preferably) sources to prove otherwise OR ask Socratic questions why I have arrived at the conclusion that, indeed, all parties are the same.

Edit: It's a very cynical remark to assume that people like me criticize both parties because it's ''enlightened & novel''. Seriously? Why and how did you arrive at that conclusion?
@Christiaan, my friend, I think there is a giant misunderstanding. My entire post was directed at Pete. The only time I invoked your name was to suggest that you think that the policies from either party aren't good enough -- which, economically, is true. As evident by Pete's outrage over social issues, and his claims that both parties are the same, suggests to me that he mostly views both parties as being similar in terms of economic policy, as opposed to the "culture war."

I have never assumed that I knew what you would do if you were an American. Actually, my best guess would have been a vote for Biden, but I really didn't know.

I say this as a compliment. I think you are too high level for this thread. I certainly assume you have very nuanced positions.
 
With all due respect @Zugzug, but your ''all parties are the same'' remark is a simplification of what I have written so far & not really intellectually honest. One example is following the logic reasoning of your argument: to say that I support the idea that both parties are the same, is to say that I don't see essentially any difference between the parties in every single way. That is something that I haven't written explicitly nor implicitly. There are differences in social policies, but my main concern is that both parties supported and still support business friendly models on the misperception that trickle down economics benefits the lower class, that corporate influence in politics cannot be denied per se & that it may negatively influence democracy (serving common good).

In recent years, the Democrats have been consistently liberal on social issues (gay marriage, justice reform, abortion), but almost indistinguishable from the Republicans on economic issues. They are as likely to be as hostile to unions as Republicans, their support for free trade hurt the working class and exported the manufacturing sector (Source: the book ''Listen Liberal'', link: https://inthesetimes.com/features/l...frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality.html).

If we talk about the role of corporate money in politics, I think we both differ in that perspective in that I belief that not all companies or rich people are giving donations to parties for philanthropic reasons, but that it is also a means to get close to politicians in hopes of changing their mind or convincing them to support a certain policy. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that it is good for people in general per se. A report in 2014 (Gilens & Page, 2014) gives a clear presentation detailing the outsize degree of influence of the rich on the political system and the consequences of economic inequality on democracy in America. Their conclusion is that preferences of the rich were far more likely to shape politics than the preferences of the middle-class or poor. Here's a summary from the New Republic website:

"Economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy," the authors wrote, "while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence." As they further noted in their follow-up book, that imbalance has translated to decades of policies that have slashed taxes for the wealthy, pared back the social safety net, and deregulated Wall Street, even as broad segments of the American public support initiatives like Medicare for All, higher taxes on the rich, and government intervention in climate change'' (link: https://newrepublic.com/article/158330/democrats-cant-quit-addiction-big-money-donors)

There are examples of this happening in current politics. You might think that it is a coincidence that politicians or lobby groups change their minds/behavior after having received a donation, but sometimes it's too much of a coincidence. Here's just three example that quickly comes to mind:


· Congressman Derek Kilmer's initiative to commercialize asteroid mining after a donation from a mining company (https://kilmer.house.gov/news/in-th...congress-to-protect-private-property-rights-3)

· Governor Cuomo giving immunity to nursing home executives after big campaign donations (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-execs-immunity). As long as Citizen's united stands, this will

· Businessman Louis DeJoy donated money to Trump's campaign and later assigned US Postmaster General (https://choice.npr.org/index.html?o.../new-postmaster-general-is-top-gop-fundraiser)


About my political viewpoints: you should know that I already mentioned many times before that I am a progressive (actually balancing between social democracy, social liberalism & conservative communitarianism). That I am strongly rooted in progressivism doesn't mean I don't belief in US politics anymore because of strong ties between business and the two big parties (or ''that they are not good enough''). Change is always possible. Anyway, If I were an American, I would support Biden temporally & belief that grassroots organization, pressure on politicians and cooperation between likeminded spirits are crucial in overturning issues like Citizen's United, changing the face of Democratic Party & maybe forming a 3rd party if differences between Centrists and Progressives are too big to ignore. Public financing of political parties is a way to make parties more independent & more receptive to voters, as I have seen in my country.

And lastly, if you think I haven't proven anything, well, that's entirely fine. I at least try to substantiate my arguments about the role of money in politics (my main concern) with sources. I don't know if you had philosophy in high school, but if you want to prove the fallacy of an argument, you ought to substantiate your counter-argument with logical reasoning and (preferably) sources to disprove that. If you assume that I believe every party is the same (which I don't think at all), or that corporate money influences politics (which I do belief, but which you didn't mention), at least try to substantiate it by using logical arguments and (preferably) sources to prove otherwise OR ask Socratic questions why I have arrived at the conclusion that, indeed, all parties are the same.

Edit: It's a very cynical remark to assume that people like me criticize both parties because it's ''enlightened & novel''. Seriously? Why and how did you arrive at that conclusion?
Just admit that you're a communist instead of rambling on.
 
@Christiaan, my friend, I think there is a giant misunderstanding. My entire post was directed at Pete. The only time I invoked your name was to suggest that you think that the policies from either party aren't good enough -- which, economically, is true. As evident by Pete's outrage over social issues, and his claims that both parties are the same, suggests to me that he mostly views both parties as being similar in terms of economic policy, as opposed to the "culture war."

I have never assumed that I knew what you would do if you were an American. Actually, my best guess would have been a vote for Biden, but I really didn't know.

I say this as a compliment. I think you are too high level for this thread. I certainly assume you have very nuanced positions.
They're similar because the system is rigged and yes, obviously they share many big business and corporate ideas. The "culture war" is semantics although the democrats clearly and vehemently value support from and give support to the far left. The Democrats also are a bit more willing to 'bend that or pretend they want to, with even more government intervention, taxation and more intrusive lefist policies. But, the system is more or less the same.

As I explained previously, your perceived "differences" whether economic or "cultural" is negligible in the grand scheme of things regarding the political climate. Maybe, there are Democrats who invite more far left transformation of the USA which is probably want most want here. I am glad I don't live there.
 
Who had the "Trump looks up to Putin" bingo card in this thread again?
 

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I'm interested in knowing the pros and cons of both candidates, both in terms of what they have done and what they say they will do, and in terms of statesmanship, likeability, honesty, health and so on.

Please give me an easy to read bulletpoint list... if you want!
 
The whole "second the nomination" thing is so weird and misleading. When I first read the sensationalized headlines, I thought that AOC was doubling down on Bernie or bust. In actuality, it's just a formality. The DNC even asked her to second the nomination for Sanders. So odd.
 
@Christiaan, my friend, I think there is a giant misunderstanding. My entire post was directed at Pete. The only time I invoked your name was to suggest that you think that the policies from either party aren't good enough -- which, economically, is true. As evident by Pete's outrage over social issues, and his claims that both parties are the same, suggests to me that he mostly views both parties as being similar in terms of economic policy, as opposed to the "culture war."

I have never assumed that I knew what you would do if you were an American. Actually, my best guess would have been a vote for Biden, but I really didn't know.

I say this as a compliment. I think you are too high level for this thread. I certainly assume you have very nuanced positions.
Ok, in that case: sorry for misunderstanding your message @Zugzug. And thank you for your compliment, but I am not too good for anything or a know it all, even if it looks that way with my extensive posts. It's just a matter of too much leisure time I guess.
 
Who had the "Trump looks up to Putin" bingo card in this thread again?
What a coincidence that today a bipartisan senate report is released on Russia gate, which keeps pilling up info on the alleged cooperation between Team Trump and Russian operatives

Trump campaign Russia contacts were 'grave threat', says Senate report

''The report concluded that the Kremlin "engaged in an aggressive, multifaceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence" the 2016 election, and that some Trump associates were keen on help from Russia.''

Link: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53830374
 
The whole "second the nomination" thing is so weird and misleading. When I first read the sensationalized headlines, I thought that AOC was doubling down on Bernie or bust. In actuality, it's just a formality. The DNC even asked her to second the nomination for Sanders. So odd.
Yeah, but it's not surprising. Attaching AOC to Sanders more means that if they lose in November, they can push her further from the reigns of power.
 
The whole "second the nomination" thing is so weird and misleading. When I first read the sensationalized headlines, I thought that AOC was doubling down on Bernie or bust. In actuality, it's just a formality. The DNC even asked her to second the nomination for Sanders. So odd.
My thoughts exactly this morning. I have read that the DNC already informed major outlets before the convention about the formal procedures of nominating someone else than Biden during the event, but it may seem as if some outlets like NBC News have ignored it to make the news more sensational (by using the Ocasio is going rogue by nominating Sanders frame) (Link: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...cuses-nbc-spreading-misinformation-dnc-speech)
 
Who had the "Trump looks up to Putin" bingo card in this thread again?
Yeah, I mean Trump would surely look up to Putin, whether he had blackmail on him or not. The question is whether or not that explains him siding with Putin over his intelligence agency.
 
I'm interested in knowing the pros and cons of both candidates, both in terms of what they have done and what they say they will do, and in terms of statesmanship, likeability, honesty, health and so on.

Please give me an easy to read bulletpoint list... if you want!
It's maybe too early to make a a bullet list on what both candidates want or will do, as party delegates need to vote during conventions on proposals that are brought forward by Dems & GOP policy platforms. So We'll know it today or tomorrow (last day Dems convention) what the Democrats want to achieve if they win the presidency. Next week we have the republican convention, so it's might take a little while before you can see pundits on TV comparing both parties to-do lists. Having said that, even if proposals are approved by a majority, they are not set in stone (not judicially binding), but at least you can hope that both presidential candidates try to keep their promises (approved proposals) once one of them have won the highest office.

Anyway, I've found an extensive article on the Intercept where you can find the reasons why Biden or Trump should become president. It's a bit biased toward Biden, but the reasons are well constructed IMO: https://theintercept.com/2020/04/20/donald-trump-joe-biden-2020-presidential-election-voting/
 
It's maybe too early to make a a bullet list on what both candidates want or will do, as party delegates need to vote during conventions on proposals that are brought forward by Dems & GOP policy platforms. So We'll know it today or tomorrow (last day Dems convention) what the Democrats want to achieve if they win the presidency. Next week we have the republican convention, so it's might take a little while before you can see pundits on TV comparing both parties to-do lists. Having said that, even if proposals are approved by a majority, they are not set in stone (not judicially binding), but at least you can hope that both presidential candidates try to keep their promises (approved proposals) once one of them have won the highest office.

Anyway, I've found an extensive article on the Intercept where you can find the reasons why Biden or Trump should become president. It's a bit biased toward Biden, but the reasons are well constructed IMO: https://theintercept.com/2020/04/20/donald-trump-joe-biden-2020-presidential-election-voting/
That makes for dire reading. How the hell did it get to this state of affairs?

What happens if Biden dies on the job?
 
That makes for dire reading. How the hell did it get to this state of affairs?

What happens if Biden dies on the job?
It's hard to say @all to gain. I think it's a matter of political culture. There's a clear difference in how ideas find their way in a party and by whom it is supported in the US vs. UK/NL. The top two US parties have a strong top-down approach in policy making, at least, that's my impression. If we take the Democratic Party at the national level for example, they have set up a task force after the presidential primaries where politicians and/ or representatives (think labour leaders, teachers, lobbyist) from different strides (in this case people picked by Team Biden and Team Sanders) deliberate ideas and eventually reach an understanding/ compromise (form policy proposals). At the national convention, delegates of candidates (those who represent candidates that won enough votes in primary states) get to decide if they support the set of proposals or not. If a majority are for these proposals, it will be formalised at the end of the convention as the official party campaign program for the upcoming presidential elections. In other words, it has a very strong top-down structure in policy making.

Link: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-bernie-sanders-unity-task-forces-release-dnc/story?id=71670170

In the UK and in the Netherlands, policy proposals can be proposed at the top, but also from bottom-up (although the balance between top-down vs. bottom-up differs between leftwing, centre and rightwing parties). I will explain this from my perspective as a party member of the Dutch Socialist Party. Alright, if a party wants to create a party program, it normally appoints a commission that consists of politicians, people with specialty in a certain area (lets call them technocrats), rank-and-file members, people with PR skills, etc. Eventually, they have reached a common ground and formulate a programme based on a set of certain ideals & concrete policy proposals that are aligned to those ideals. Subsequently, the party programme will be proposed during a local meeting of the party in every village and city of the country, where members have the right to offer insights, criticise proposals, propose amendments or even offer new policy proposals in the party programme. During this local meeting, a majority needs to be found to change policy proposals or accept new ones. Eventually, the changed party programme will be discussed during the national convention of the party. This convention will be visited by delegates (party members) from each local branch of the party. They will then vote each single policy proposal that is mentioned in the party programme. If a majority of the delegates accepts each single policy proposal, it will be formalised in the party programme. Finally, at the end of the convention, the party leadership will accept the party programme and they will use & promote it in their campaign for the next elections. In both our countries, party programmes are always a starting point in negotiating with other parties to form a government, for which compromise is often key. If you look at how party programmes are formulated in both our countries, it has a top-down and bottom-up structure in policy making

Edit: If Biden were to die on the job, the Vice President (Kamala Harris) would replace him (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
 
For me, Clinton > Kamala > Biden. Kamala is less corrupt than Clinton, but I don't think would run the country as well. And Joe Biden won't run the country at all, just will prevent Trump from running it. This is, of course, amongst the known establishment candidates. I would prefer a progressive/establishment hybrid.
 
@WillBeNimble @Christiaan @PeteJ

And what do you think of Harris being crowned president?

Honestly, I'm beginning to think Putin might be better than Trump or Biden/Harris LOL I never thought I would ever say that...!!

I'm joking...!! But you know what I mean!!
I hope she has learned from her mistakes as attorney general in California (she has a conservative record: lacked willingness to prosecute rich organisations/institutes like Steven Mnuchin's OneWest bank for foreclosure violations, declined to investigate officer involved shootings & aggressively prosecuted misdemeanours). (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/how-left-feels-about-bidens-vp-pick/615193/)

Although, she has proven to change her opinion if she thinks that another idea is better. That shows intellectual honesty (which I value). She's flexible & experienced. Has a strong liberal record in the senate, so she represents the middle ground & glue within the party and thus could more easily find common ground as an in-betweener vis-à-vis blue dog Democrats and Progressives (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ord-senate-policies-us-election-a9675071.html). She has the advantage that she has a higher chance to become president if she sits this one out as VP in a successful Biden administration. She will have a lot more name recognition, which will help her in the next Democratic Primaries. The question remains if she will be the right candidate in 2024. There will always be other contenders. I have a strong feeling that someone ambitious like AOC (who, in my view, has incredible debate skills, a strong moral compass & strong capability to popularise policy measures like Green New Deal) will give it a shot, but she might as well choose to aim lower for a senate seat (Chuck Schumer's seat) to gain more political experience (which is advisable). I'm not to sure about all of this, but we'll see.

Edit: PhD in politics? It's a woulda, shoulda and coulda thing for me, as I am kind of disabled to further my studies with severe tinnitus. Maybe in the future, I'm optimistic enough to believe that a cure will be found for all of us here on Tinnitus Talk.
 
For me, Clinton > Kamala > Biden. Kamala is less corrupt than Clinton, but I don't think would run the country as well. And Joe Biden won't run the country at all, just will prevent Trump from running it. This is, of course, amongst the known establishment candidates. I would prefer a progressive/establishment hybrid.
@Zugzug, what country are you from? I know it's in Europe some place by some of your words.
 
Edit: PhD in politics? It's a woulda, shoulda and coulda thing for me, as I am kind of disabled to further my studies with severe tinnitus. Maybe in the future, I'm optimistic enough to believe that a cure will be found for all of us here on Tinnitus Talk.
You sure have good concentration judging by the length and detailed description of your posts. Most people with severe tinnitus have poor concentration, me included.
 

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