MemberI'm saying that you can align with the Democratic Party and not be a fervent supportive of Speaker Pelosi. My point was to illustrate that I am not supportive of every Democrat politician.
2020 US Presidential Election
- Thread starter Born To Slay
- Start date
There is a conservative tactic on blogs and YouTube to align every left leaning person with every other left leaning person or ideal (it makes it easier to dismiss and dehumanize them and treat them as a monolithic boogieman) but if given a counterexample with the right with say QAnon pledged candidates, they cry foul.
Speaking of Q, Trump is now retweeting and promoting crazy Q conspiracies:
https://www.newsweek.com/robert-oneill-bin-laden-double-trump-qanon-1539010
What do the non-Q Trump supporters think of this?
https://www.newsweek.com/robert-oneill-bin-laden-double-trump-qanon-1539010
What do the non-Q Trump supporters think of this?
It's not directly taxed, but it can push you into a higher bracket, which I think is a way to generate some additional tax revenue to partially fund other programs that Yang was in favor of. I know Medicare For All was on his proposed platform, but it didn't include everyone at first. He wanted to slowly transition to that point over time, which is different from Bernie's proposal.
UBI would be given to everyone because the VAT is what funds it. More revenue from VAT produces more that can be paid out for UBI and other programs. Inflation may be of concern, but I don't think as much as some might believe. Now, if we can exclude consumer staples and/or primarily tax luxury goods and services, UBI would really serve as an enhanced form of income redistribution. Still, it would help most people as it stands. You would have to spend a lot to lose out on the benefits of UBI. Interest rate control may serve as a better means to reduce inflation. Plus, pushing some high earners into a higher bracket will produce more marginal tax revenue.
I don't think the first iteration will be perfect, but Yang's approach makes the most sense to me. I think it would evolve over time. It's important to show that economic growth would be generated at first, while simultaneously making it easier for people to get by.
It's a really interesting approach and I would love to see candidates consider plans like this. It would especially benefit the disabled and those teetering on homelessness or hungry.
- Aug 28, 2019
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Trump's rallies are so much more impressive than Biden's sleep ins. I watched the one from yesterday, and Trump has a knack for playing to the crowd. Biden doesn't. If Biden gets in, I think Harris is going to be taking over, which is a scary thought... just as scary as Trump!
So many in both parties are like that. There's plenty of examples of republicans behaving that way, look no further than the President.
Not really related. Bush had much more charisma than Cheney but Cheney had more influence. Charisma really only matters for mobilizing your base.
Trump's charisma only appeals to Trumpists who were immune to Obama's.
The only concerning thing about Yang's proposal is that it's not revenue neutral. It'd require a lot of annual borrowing. The VAT would have to be a lot higher to fully fund the program.
- Aug 5, 2019
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I genuinely don't understand what is so scary about Harris. Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand why she's not people's first choice. I feel pretty meh about her. But I don't see her dividing the country in the same way. She isn't going to defund the police.
She's on the left, but she's to the right of even Warren, who's to the right of Bernie, who's not to the left of European countries.
I expected the criticism of Harris as someone who flip flops and changes her positions based on who she's talking to. I didn't expect the "secretly a communist/Marxist" criticism. I hope this isn't common.
There's been talk in this thread along the lines of Trump being able to do anything positive and still being criticized. Well, anyone on Earth could run for president with a (D) next to their name, and they would be called a communist.
The irony is actual progressives are not enthusiastic about her precisely because she's not very left at all except that she is pro choice.
There's a lot of division among progressives. Many are leaving the Democratic Party for the Green Party as they are fed up with establishment Dems and their resistance of moving further left. They don't want expanded Medicare, they want Medicare For All. They don't want a Biden climate plan, they want a Green New Deal. Other progressives believe it is more pragmatic to reform the Democratic Party and push it further left. I'm of the latter group, but I understand the frustration.
Biden and Harris are not very left at all.
It could be raised over time. I think most importantly he wants to show it will help people breathe easier. Let's face it: never mind surpluses; not many proposed plans actually turn out even being revenue-neutral in today's politics. We're in unprecedented times, and deficits are the norm. $27 trillion in national debt... and counting.
- Apr 6, 2020
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Yikes! If nobody can convince someone here on this thread that Trump is by far the worst possible human being for the role of president, I hope The Simpsons can seal the deal in their new Tree House of Horror episode (on the 18th).
'The Simpsons' listed 50 reasons not to reelect Donald Trump in the teaser for its annual Halloween episode
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Biden & Harris are afraid of losing the Blue Wall (Michigan, Minnesota & Pennsylvania) if they go full throttle on progressive proposals like Medicare 4 all. Poll in these states are mixed when it comes to progressive proposals like that. At the same time, they don't put a lot of effort in explaining to voters in these states the pros & cons of Obama Care vs. M4All.
It takes courage to propose things for which you need to convince a lot more people than for something for which you already can get a lot of votes, given the current polls. So I understand the Democratic leadership is playing it safe, but at the same time I understand that progressives are frustrated with this strategy.
State Polls Show Medicare for All Could Cost Democrats the Blue Wall in 2020
- Apr 6, 2020
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I'm wondering in a psychological sense if providing basic income can make people as productive as they were before. F.e. how to motivate UBI receivers in looking for a job & keeping it vs. those who do not receive subsidies. Has there been a project in the USA concerning UBI?
UBI has mixed results if we look at local trials in Europe. Some people were more happier, but sometimes less likely to have a job (less motivated in looking for jobs), as the recent results of a Finnish trial have shown:
Latest Report on Finland's Universal Basic Income Trial Says It Makes People Happier
I'm not against the whole idea of UBI, but I just want to know if it is feasible enough to implement it eventually.
- Aug 28, 2019
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And this is exactly why Harris will be running things if Biden gets in. Although he's not Mr Charisma, he has more than Harris, but it will be Harris who will be pulling the strings.
I just instantly didn't like Harris, regardless of her policies. Maybe I could warm to her, but I don't see it happening.
- Aug 28, 2019
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The country already is divided, has been for a long time, but Trump just hastened the process. It's not going to be fixed under Biden or Harris. It's too late for that.
Yeah, I don't think she's a communist lol I know plenty of real communists...
I just find the current state of affairs laughable. Both Trump and Biden are real security threats.
I hate to say it, but the US almost deserves what's happening.
- Aug 28, 2019
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From a progressive's point of view, that is actually what scares me about Biden and Harris. They are not far enough to the left for me. We would return to a sense of normalcy, but my view is that we need to act now on many pressing issues. Biden's climate plan is nowhere near ambitious as the proposed Green New Deal. They also refuse to ban fracking. We don't have much time if we wish to avoid a climate apocalypse. Biden has a questionable track record, especially in regard to his 1994 crime bill and war-voting record. Harris was a strict prosecutor and certainly not progressive when it came to marijuana. They have expressed changing views on some topics, which I hope turns out to be true in policy.
They are still getting my vote as it is a step toward future party improvement. Bernie, Warren, Yang, AOC, and others may obtain roles in a Biden administration. Plus, we would get $15 minimum wage, tuition-free public college for working families, some student loan cancellation, some form of climate policy, Medicare expansion, etc. Best of all: no Trump.
It's a start. Nowhere near enough, but it sets framework for a true progressive to take over in 2024. Biden even views himself as a "transitional" president. It's no secret where the future of the party lies. DNC Chair, Tom Perez, called AOC "the future of our party." Even with the concerns, the Biden/Harris ticket is a solid step that could lead to greater Democratic Party reform in the near future.
From a strategic standpoint, absolutely. It makes total sense to play it safe. It will undoubtedly take a while until a Green New Deal and Medicare For All become more mainstream and accepted overall. Progressives will get their way, but it won't happen overnight. That's why it's much more pragmatic to reform the party instead of abandoning it altogether. Bernie is aware of this and is leading the charge in campaigning for Biden/Harris. It is extremely important that younger progressive voters don't get discouraged. After all, they are essential in making reform possible.
You have to play politics in order to change politics.
- Aug 28, 2019
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He is... along with Biden/Harris. That's the scary thing. Biden looks frail and is definitely losing it (and we may well have a dead president on our hands), Harris I simply don't like and she would be played on the world stage and Trump... well we all know about Trump!
God bless Uncle Sam
- Aug 5, 2019
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You certainly could be right about Biden and Harris. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of holding the past against politicians unless it has clear implications. Everyone has made bad decisions before, and especially in the tech era, those mistakes blow up and make people seemingly irredeemable. With this being said, I am, of course, talking about people who show clear signs of learning from their mistakes. At the same rate, we are electing the president, which is the ultimate privilege and honor. To say mistake X disqualifies you from being president and mistake X disqualifies you from living a dignified life are rather different. I think, for me, it depends on the mistake.
The crime bill means little to me because it's so clear that Biden and Harris are not about to repeat that mistake any time soon. Same with Harris and marijuana. It seems like something that is sincerely in the past. Maybe we'll see.
I have mixed feelings about the AOC wing. I think she is pretty talented at politics, but I don't think Pelosi's job is as easy as it looks. I'm not too optimistic about any direction this country goes in, to be honest. The status quo is unacceptable. But I'm not so sure that the people pushing for all of the change really know what they are doing.
I feel that the experiment in Finland should have been larger, though I understand it is a costly expenditure. Moreover, some trial participants only received small basic-income payments, while they also had a reduction in their conditional benefits for trial purposes.
One of the world's largest basic-income trials, a 2-year program in Finland, was a major flop. But experts say the test was flawed.
From the article:
"A control group of unemployed people (around 5,000 residents) continued to receive these services. The treatment group, meanwhile, received a portion (but not all) of the same conditional benefits they had been getting before, in addition to small basic-income payments of 560 euros ($640) per month."
"One participant, Sini Marttinen, told the New York Times that her income only rose by 50 euros ($55) per month during the experiment."
Also, automation is one of the major reasons that UBI could be beneficial.
Robots 'to replace up to 20 million factory jobs' by 2030
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@Christiaan,
Your country is not perfect either:
https://www.france24.com/en/20201013-dutch-pm-rutte-imposes-partial-lockdown-to-contain-coronavirus
The number of cases in this country of 17 million has surged in recent weeks to a daily record of nearly 7,400 on Tuesday. It now has one of the highest per capita infection rates worldwide.
Your country is not perfect either:
https://www.france24.com/en/20201013-dutch-pm-rutte-imposes-partial-lockdown-to-contain-coronavirus
The number of cases in this country of 17 million has surged in recent weeks to a daily record of nearly 7,400 on Tuesday. It now has one of the highest per capita infection rates worldwide.
And that's not a good precedent set. Other countries with large welfare states pay for their spending and we should also. And Yang's plan is underfunded by 100s of billions of dollars.
UBI would likely run a big deficit the first couple years until the economy grows, especially in the first year because we have to fund the monthly payments. If implemented correctly, the deficit would shrink over time as higher purchasing power generates growth. Automation also increases productivity, which in turn can enhance growth.
I'm all for paying our tab. Most proposed budgets from candidates that I've seen do not seem to be entirely feasible unless deficits are employed, again, especially early on.
There are numerous areas where we could reduce expenditures just by looking at the projected U.S. federal budget for 2021. We often fail to allocate our resources in the most efficient way. Both sides are guilty.
