Agnostics “R” Us...

[GeorgeLG]

I am a open-minded person who has searched for truth on countless subjects throughout my life, including this one. I just come up completely empty-handed on religion. I was married to a Christian and was immersed in her families beliefs for over 20 years and nothing. Read their Bible with them, went to their churches, sat as they prayed before meals. Like @Stuart-T, I think that the Bible is a fine piece of work and, despite some of the content like beating slaves, it has many good ideas put forth to its readers. Where I just cannot square the whole thing is the endless mass death and suffering at the hands of other human beings. The Jews during WWII, Rwanda, the women and children of the Ukraine now. All the talk of free will and the devil still leaves us with killing on the level of a million people for sport or in the name of some God, hatred of fellow man, monumental intolerance and racism, etc. To me the whole story line looks reverse engineered to fit the long-standing human condition.

As I always say, if you're not hurting anyone ,then I'm good with what someone else believes and if it brings you comfort, then I am glad for you, but as I look throughout my life, I see a roughly equal amount of misery, happiness, early physical suffering, longevity, good and bad behavior, contentment, fear, and so on in both camps. It just doesn't seem to make any difference here on earth which is all I can see and understand. The big differences are all supposed to be in the afterlife, something nobody can ever verify by definition.

 

[just1morething]

@SarahMLFlemmer, I used to be a Christian so there's hope for you yet.

Maybe your tinnitus is the focus of your life? Mine is so debilitating today, that's all I can think about. I'm okay with people believing or not, it's their choice. I just don't want to argue about it on a tinnitus forum. I even know someone who is a Jehovah Witness, and although I don't believe in their teachings, he is a nice person to me, so I won't judge him.

Did you grow up Catholic sir? I was even an altar boy. And I'm also a sinner like most people.

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

We don't know who wrote the Old Testament books. Clearly the Jews had some highly literate people and I consider the Old and New Testaments to be iconic and great works of the ancient world.

But that does not mean the core supernatural claims are true. That there is a God - or that anything miraculous ever happened.

Yeah well, they probably had psychedelic pills. You read that book from the very first page to the last, then tell me what you think.

 

[Lilah]

And why do women have to be silent in church but not men?

Timothy 2

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."

So women should not then be priests after all. And we should not see women teaching men in any capacity. It was the woman who was tricked, not the man - she can only be saved by being a bearer of children so that's her place. Eve's gullibility or willingness to be tricked has been very costly for women ever since.

Personally I can't subscribe to anything so repugnant and misogynistic - but if that's your religion - good luck to you.

This verse is targeted towards a certain audience. Paul's letters show he faced different challenges at different churches. The Bible shows that women prophesied and prayed out loud (and definitely not as much as men) which would happen in a church. Also during those times women did not study, hence why Paul wanted women to ask their husbands if they have questions. This can also explain why Paul asked women at this particular church to remain quiet - because they were uneducated.

One of the remarkable things about Jesus is that he is fine with women being educated. In the case of Martha and Mary, Martha was irritated with Mary for not helping with housework but instead preferred to listen to Jesus at his feet. Jesus essentially told her not to fuss, and that housework is less important than hearing/studying God's word. Also, we can presume that Mary was asking God himself a lot of questions.

Along the same line, childbearing is not required for salvation. The Bible actually says it is better to be single (and celibate) but marriage is better for those with strong sexual urges for it is better to marry than fornicate. "Saved through childbearing" is referring to something else, probably something like womankind can make up for the Fall a bit by suffering this pain or raising a child, but it has nothing to do with eternal life.

 

[Stuart-T]

I'm not a "sir" and at the time, l did believe in God. I saw a story about animals being tortured. I decided then and there that there was no God.

You do realise there are Christians who will say, evil - suffering - children dying of cancer etc - is to test the faith of believers.

I don't see that any kind of loving God is compatible with the random suffering we see in the world. But that's not the reason I don't believe. There may be an evil God - who delights in this pain.

My reason for disbelief in any remarkable claim is lack of evidence.

I have been presented with remarkable claims which I disbelieved - and then having been presented with evidence - had no option but to accept that the claim was most probably true.

For example - someone told me that the Soviets had buildings - large blocks - which could be moved from one street to another. I really doubted this could be true but researched it - saw photos - film - found reliable sources and it turned out to be true.

But convincing evidence for a God so far eludes me.

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

I doubt it. That book was written by 7 goat herders 700 years after your so called God. Religion is one of the biggest con games on earth.

"Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool." — Mark Twain

That book is the inspired Word of God! Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for their religion. Religion doesn't save anyone. There are plenty of extremes, charlatans, false Christs, false teachers, wolves in sheep's clothing, peddlers of the Gospel. Bro, trust me, there are so many people trotting around professing that they are Christians, and they are not. Right now I am trying to convince some of my Christian friends of some of the "new" teachings that is spreading in Christianity, they show the same characteristics I mentioned above, but are deceived and acting fools. No wonder why unbelievers think we're nuts!

I'm not a "sir" and at the time, l did believe in God. I saw a story about animals being tortured. I decided then and there that there was no God. Of course I knew that evil existed in the world and had seen many horrible things but I never questioned my faith. I don't know what was different this time. Perhaps it was the straw that broke the camel's back. But something inside me clicked and my belief died. I went to my room, tore up my Bible and threw it in the bin.

I will admit to you that old habits die hard. Last year I went through a phase of saying the Lord's prayer before trying to go to sleep. But don't get any ideas @SarahMLFlemmer. I've been an atheist for many years and unless I have solid proof to state otherwise, will remain so.

My bad, Ms.! Sorry.

Yeah, there are so many questions; "how could a good God allow x, y, z?" They're legitimate questions, some of which I have asked myself, but I have decided for myself that if I am reading something in the Bible that doesn't make sense to me or that I am not quite understanding and questioning God's goodness; that either I have a flawed understanding of what I am interpreting or I'm lacking its context.

 

[GeorgeLG]

That book is the inspired Word of God! Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for their religion. Religion doesn't save anyone. There are plenty of extremes, charlatans, false Christs, false teachers, wolves in sheep's clothing, peddlers of the Gospel. Bro, trust me, there are so many people trotting around professing that they are Christians, and they are not. Right now I am trying to convince some of my Christian friends of some of the "new" teachings that is spreading in Christianity, they show the same characteristics I mentioned above, but are deceived and acting fools. No wonder why unbelievers think we're nuts!

Einstein once said that "power always attracts men of low morality". Its no different on this subject, inserting yourself between mortals and their God and demanding money has been shown to be very powerful and profitable. This really turned me off to religion in college but I eventually learned to separate the opportunists grifting off of this subject like any other in politics, miracle medical cures and such. I eventually then went back to searching for my truth on the subject and decided that spirituality has nothing to do with grifting and needs to be a personal journey. Regardless of my ultimate conclusion on the subject, I believe that I don't need to pay anyone to tell me about my relationship with spirituality. I am a self-study person by make up but I do understand how others enjoy a group teaching environment and like the fellowship, however.

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

Einstein once said that "power always attracts men of low morality". Its no different on this subject, inserting yourself between mortals and their God and demanding money has been shown to be very powerful and profitable. This really turned me off to religion in college but I eventually learned to separate the opportunists grifting off of this subject like any other in politics, miracle medical cures and such. I eventually then went back to searching for my truth on the subject and decided that spirituality has nothing to do with grifting and needs to be a personal journey. Regardless of my ultimate conclusion on the subject, I believe that I don't need to pay anyone to tell me about my relationship with spirituality. I am a self-study person by make up but I do understand how others enjoy a group teaching environment and like the fellowship, however.

Amen, amen, amen! My husband was personally turned off by some of the things that he had seen going on in church and said, "This is Christianity? I'm out!" I was going to our current church solo for many years until my husband finally started digging in to what the Word says about how we should live, what "the church" should look like, etc. etc. etc. on his own. Praise God, my husband is a dedicated believer now. We disagree with some of the ways we see our church ran, and have come to some different conclusions than our Pastors, but all in all, we have pretty biblically sound Pastors and for that I am appreciative cause there is so much extremism and insanity out there being taught.

We try to not just talk the talk, but also walk the walk. We teach what we are! People can spot a phony from a mile away.

Opportunists, there are many of those in "Christianity" too, sad, but the Bible talks about that too. We have strongly rebuked people that hold these teachings and are hated for it by our friends that indulge in this nonsense. And, what a surprise, the Bible talks about that TOO!

We are all to walk out our own salvation with fear and trembling, as the Word of God states it, but there is only one way to the Father, God, and that is Jesus Christ. And yes, we need no middle man, Christ is the mediator between us and God, not anyone else! May him be the power and the glory forever!

 

[just1morething]

The big differences are all supposed to be in the afterlife, something nobody can ever verify by definition.

Afterlife is the most important thing and also the most hard to fathom. It's much easier for my mind to understand death as being final and our bodies turning into dust, even though that is a depressing thought.

There are many more questions than answers regarding God and a potential afterlife. It seems easier to be a believer when you have a healthy body and some wealth to buy material things. There is so much suffering in this world that it does make a caring God difficult to understand. Right now I'm too focused on my tinnitus and other body issues to think of God or any particular religion.

 

[Stuart-T]

This verse is targeted towards a certain audience.

And this is what Christians say when faced with an uncomfortable quote.

If the Bible was written for a particular audience - then we can discard the whole book since that audience is now long gone.

One of the remarkable things about Jesus is that he is fine with women being educated.

Oh you think the master of the universe should get a commendation for being fine with women being educated. It's funny how all the apostles are men. No women.

But tell me - why do you think anybody should care what the Bible says?

Most people, including myself, get on well without it and we don't have to do any tap dancing to justify the absurd immorality of the bulk of the Bible.

I have decided for myself that if I am reading something in the Bible that doesn't make sense to me or that I am not quite understanding and questioning God's goodness; that either I have a flawed understanding of what I am interpreting or I'm lacking its context.

So slavery, stoning unruly boys, subjugating women, taking slaves and virgins from conquered peoples, genocide, killing witches - all these things which any reasonable person would say are immoral, you give a free pass because you must have a flawed understanding or are lacking context.

That's a pretty good way of not facing up to what your book actually advocates.

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

And this is what Christians say when faced with an uncomfortable quote.

If the Bible was written for a particular audience - then we can discard the whole book since that audience is now long gone.

Oh you think the master of the universe should get a commendation for being fine with women being educated. It's funny how all the apostles are men. No women.

But tell me - why do you think anybody should care what the Bible says?

Most people, including myself, get on well without it and we don't have to do any tap dancing to justify the absurd immorality of the bulk of the Bible.

So slavery, stoning unruly boys, subjugating women, taking slaves and virgins from conquered peoples, genocide, killing witches - all these things which any reasonable person would say are immoral, you give a free pass because you must have a flawed understanding or are lacking context.

That's a pretty good way of not facing up to what your book actually advocates.

Nobody said that they should get a "free pass," I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth to prove a point. The people who are doing these things to justify evil are the ones taking Scripture out of its context.

God is good, but He is also just, sovereign, and holy.

Look, God rescued me out of a life of darkness. I come from a broken home, I was molested at a young age by my step-father, my mom was schizophrenic and had men in and out of her life constantly leaving me to my own devices, my dad was physically sick all of my life. My mom, bless her heart, handed me a meth pipe at 16 years old and my addiction took me into some pretty scary places. I still have a brother and a sister in their addiction and it pains me to death. My mom died in her addiction about 6 years ago, I was very close with her and loved her dearly through everything, and my dad passed around the same time from heart failure. I have many physical ailments that makes life hard everyday. Every one of us walking this earth have dealt with some kind of pain and agony, no one is exempt. But here's the thing, man, I have this hope that no one can take from me, my man. There's no way we suffer this life just to get buried in the dirt and that be it. No way. Jesus died for me as he died for you, and all who believe have eternal life. A life where there will be no more pain, no more tears, no more suffering, no more death. It is finished.

 

[Stuart-T]

Nobody said that they should get a "free pass," I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth to prove a point. The people who are doing these things to justify evil are the ones taking Scripture out of its context.

God is good, but He is also just, sovereign, and holy.

Look, God rescued me out of a life of darkness. I come from a broken home, I was molested at a young age by my step-father, my mom was schizophrenic and had men in and out of her life constantly leaving me to my own devices, my dad was physically sick all of my life. My mom, bless her heart, handed me a meth pipe at 16 years old and my addiction took me into some pretty scary places. I still have a brother and a sister in their addiction and it pains me to death. My mom died in her addiction about 6 years ago, I was very close with her and loved her dearly through everything, and my dad passed around the same time from heart failure. I have many physical ailments that makes life hard everyday. Every one of us walking this earth have dealt with some kind of pain and agony, no one is exempt. But here's the thing, man, I have this hope that no one can take from me, my man. There's no way we suffer this life just to get buried in the dirt and that be it. No way. Jesus died for me as he died for you, and all who believe have eternal life. A life where there will be no more pain, no more tears, no more suffering, no more death. It is finished.

Nobody wants to take hope away from you and I am sorry you have had such a tough time.

I am glad you have found some strength through your religion. But when you make claims like only those who believe in Jesus get eternal life - the rest go to the flames - you can't expect anyone to tip toe around your faith.

On another note, I am delighted to find Bible believing Christians taking part in the discussion.

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

Nobody wants to take hope away from you and I am sorry you have had such a tough time.

I am glad you have found some strength through your religion. But when you make claims like only those who believe in Jesus get eternal life - the rest go to the flames - you can't expect anyone to tip toe around your faith.

On another note, I am delighted to find Bible believing Christians taking part in the discussion.

No, I know no one is trying to convince me here not to believe in Christ. I appreciate civil and productive conversation. Thank you for the apology but it's not your fault! All of these things work together for the good of those who love God, it all conforms us into the image of His son, if we let it. (Romans 8:28-29) Nobody has to tip toe around me, I'm not easily offended. The Bible tells us that we will be hated for His name's sake, so I'm prepared for it. What's crazy to me is that I'm finding so-called Christians "persecuting" Bible believing Christians even more than unbelievers currently! I knew the world would hate us, but I had no idea it would be "in the house of God!" I suppose the wheat and the tare are supposed to grow together. I'm having an easier time with non-Christians than with actual Christians right now. I'm just here to share my testimony and hope that somebody bites!

 

[GeorgeLG]

No, I know no one is trying to convince me here not to believe in Christ. I appreciate civil and productive conversation. Thank you for the apology but it's not your fault! All of these things work together for the good of those who love God, it all conforms us into the image of His son, if we let it. (Romans 8:28-29) Nobody has to tip toe around me, I'm not easily offended. The Bible tells us that we will be hated for His name's sake, so I'm prepared for it. What's crazy to me is that I'm finding so-called Christians "persecuting" Bible believing Christians even more than unbelievers currently! I knew the world would hate us, but I had no idea it would be "in the house of God!" I suppose the wheat and the tare are supposed to grow together. I'm having an easier time with non-Christians than with actual Christians right now. I'm just here to share my testimony and hope that somebody bites!

@SarahMLFlemmer, in what way do "Christians" persecute each other? What is the basis for the hate?

 

[Lilah]

It's funny how all the apostles are men. No women.

Not only were these men apostles but they were also Jesus' closest companions who spent night and day with him. So, this is nothing unusual. Even today, among the more conservative crowd, best friends are usually limited to people of the same gender except the spouse. It was also unbecoming for women to travel alone to foreign lands which is what the apostles did. Nevertheless, Jesus did have a group of women following Him.

So slavery, stoning unruly boys, subjugating women, taking slaves and virgins from conquered peoples, genocide, killing witches - all these things which any reasonable person would say are immoral, you give a free pass because you must have a flawed understanding or are lacking context.

You are blaming God instead of man for this behavior. If you look at issues more closely, you'll see there is some reasoning. However, I agree it can be difficult to reconcile some of the items you listed. On genocide, there are instances where God wants renewal and so He wipes out populations which He considers evil (like the Canaanites), usually as a last resort. God's qualities also include wrath. In WWII for example, the U.S. wiped out Hiroshima and Nagasaki to stop the war on the Pacific front. Not an apples-to-apples comparison, but there are some similarities. On witchcraft, this term could be translated as someone who created poisons. We know not everyone involved with the occult was stoned to death. When Peter met Simon, an acclaimed sorcerer in Samaria, Peter did not threaten him with stoning but instead asked him to repent and pray (which Simon did and received the Holy Spirit).

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

Nobody wants to take hope away from you and I am sorry you have had such a tough time.

I am glad you have found some strength through your religion. But when you make claims like only those who believe in Jesus get eternal life - the rest go to the flames - you can't expect anyone to tip toe around your faith.

On another note, I am delighted to find Bible believing Christians taking part in the discussion.

All I know is my life was and did head down a pretty dark path, and God rescued me from it. I didn't become a Christian and things just automatically got easier, quite the opposite, actually. But it got better! I have peace and joy, even in the midst of chaos. When I first developed tinnitus, my faith was tested hardcore. I have other health ailments that pain me pretty severely, but THIS was the straw that broke this camel's back. I went through an extreme 3 month mental breakdown over this and started questioning, "how could my God allow this?" Then I questioned, "how could my God allow His son to be beat unfairly to literally death?" I stepped out of the leadership position I have been in for the last 4 years (I work with "at risk" teens pretty much) at our church. Those two questions were answered with Scripture, in many places, actually. But Romans 8:28-29 and John 16:33 have been a lifesaver for me. I started to have suicidal thoughts in my first 3 months of tinnitus, but we were never promised a life without suffering. We were born into sin, and as a result we face death and decay from the moment we're born. One day, I will experience what was once in the Garden of Eden. Perfect harmony with God. I look forward to a glorified body, where my body and mind will be whole. A place with no more ear ringing. Oh, glorious day! Amen.

 

[Stuart-T]

On genocide, there are instances where God wants renewal and so He wipes out populations which He considers evil (like the Canaanites),

I rest my case.

One can explain how a messed up human or country would obliterate a population including all the blameless babies, but a loving, perfect God? The crassness of your apologetics knows no bounds.

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Einstein once said that "power always attracts men of low morality". Its no different on this subject, inserting yourself between mortals and their God and demanding money has been shown to be very powerful and profitable. This really turned me off to religion in college but I eventually learned to separate the opportunists grifting off of this subject like any other in politics, miracle medical cures and such. I eventually then went back to searching for my truth on the subject and decided that spirituality has nothing to do with grifting and needs to be a personal journey. Regardless of my ultimate conclusion on the subject, I believe that I don't need to pay anyone to tell me about my relationship with spirituality. I am a self-study person by make up but I do understand how others enjoy a group teaching environment and like the fellowship, however.

Yeah and the Bible says money is the root of evil. Still people toss money in the baskets hoping it buys them the stairway to heaven.

I knew a young man back in the 70s who was into LSD, marijuana and alcohol. He woke up one morning after a binge, and said he had a calling. So he became a pastor. He is now a millionaire. Damn, religion is sure profitable.

 

[GeorgeLG]

Yeah and the Bible says money is the root of evil. Still people toss money in the baskets hoping it buys them the stairway to heaven.

I knew a young man back in the 70s who was into LSD, marijuana and alcohol. He woke up one morning after a binge, and said he had a calling. So he became a pastor. He is now a millionaire. Damn, religion is sure profitable.

Stalin killed 6 million of his own people, many suffering horribly, Cambodia 2 million, Armenia 1 million, Rwanda 1 million, German atrocities on Russian soldiers during WWII 3 million, the Holocaust 7 million, countless war crimes with unspeakable suffering, Ukraine war crimes in progress. The religious wars. It goes on.

I just don't understand and can't square all this death and suffering. Why create people, make them so defective that with free will they harm each other in such massive numbers? Even the whole crucifixion thing. It is estimated that the Romans crucified 6,000 people as a way of showing the general public not to screw with the Roman authorities. If eliminating godless people is the goal why make them suffer so much? Why not just make them spontaneously expire? Why make them that defective in the first place? I won't bother describing what the Russian soldiers are doing to the women and children of the Ukraine right now but torture and total submission to authoritarian rule is the goal. The Ukraine is 85% Christian.

 

[Luman]

Stalin killed 6 million of his own people, many suffering horribly, Cambodia 2 million, Armenia 1 million, Rwanda 1 million, German atrocities on Russian soldiers during WWII 3 million, the Holocaust 7 million, countless war crimes with unspeakable suffering, Ukraine war crimes in progress. The religious wars. It goes on.

I just don't understand and can't square all this death and suffering. Why create people, make them so defective that with free will they harm each other in such massive numbers? Even the whole crucifixion thing. It is estimated that the Romans crucified 6,000 people as a way of showing the general public not to screw with the Roman authorities. If eliminating godless people is the goal why make them suffer so much? Why not just make them spontaneously expire? Why make them that defective in the first place? I won't bother describing what the Russian soldiers are doing to the women and children of the Ukraine right now but torture and total submission to authoritarian rule is the goal. The Ukraine is 85% Christian.

I do not own any firearms but I'm damn glad that so many others in America do.

 

[Stuart-T]

Stalin killed 6 million of his own people, many suffering horribly, Cambodia 2 million, Armenia 1 million, Rwanda 1 million, German atrocities on Russian soldiers during WWII 3 million, the Holocaust 7 million, countless war crimes with unspeakable suffering, Ukraine war crimes in progress. The religious wars. It goes on.

I just don't understand and can't square all this death and suffering. Why create people, make them so defective that with free will they harm each other in such massive numbers? Even the whole crucifixion thing. It is estimated that the Romans crucified 6,000 people as a way of showing the general public not to screw with the Roman authorities. If eliminating godless people is the goal why make them suffer so much? Why not just make them spontaneously expire? Why make them that defective in the first place? I won't bother describing what the Russian soldiers are doing to the women and children of the Ukraine right now but torture and total submission to authoritarian rule is the goal. The Ukraine is 85% Christian.

Christians will say - God is testing the faith of believers to determine who is worthy for eternal salvation. The more heinous the atrocity - the greater the test of faith.

People whose faith is so weak that they give it up because a little girl is raped and killed by a madman have no place in heaven. Therefore - these horrible acts must go unfettered and the world necessarily is the way it is because of original sin and necessity of free will to choose between Jesus and faithlessness.

That - is Christian theology.

 

[GeorgeLG]

I do not own any firearms but I'm damn glad that so many others in America do.

I am not arguing against gun-ownership, it's fundamental to our constitution but having the ability to rise up against the tyranny of government comes at a great cost to the population at large:

 

[Luman]

I am not arguing against gun-ownership, it's fundamental to our constitution but having the ability to rise up against the tyranny of government comes at a great cost to the population at large:

View attachment 54199

This is the unfortunate reality, but there must be ways to address the problem of firearm murders, that would help reduce them.

 

[Stuart-T]

I am not arguing against gun-ownership, it's fundamental to our constitution but having the ability to rise up against the tyranny of government comes at a great cost to the population at large:

View attachment 54199

That chart is homicides - it does not address that catastrophic suicides from gunshots.

USA is an amazing country but the fact that so many people own guns is enough to keep me safe and sound in the UK.

Enjoy your right to bear arms Americans!

This is the unfortunate reality, but there must be ways to address the problem of firearm murders, that would help reduce them.

Let us know when you have an answer.

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

@SarahMLFlemmer, in what way do "Christians" persecute each other? What is the basis for the hate?

Doctrinal differences, deception.

 

[GeorgeLG]

Let us know when you have an answer.

Step one is election finance reform. Like we have said here about religion gone bad, power and money.

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

Christians will say - God is testing the faith of believers to determine who is worthy for eternal salvation. The more heinous the atrocity - the greater the test of faith.

People whose faith is so weak that they give it up because a little girl is raped and killed by a madman have no place in heaven. Therefore - these horrible acts must go unfettered and the world necessarily is the way it is because of original sin and necessity of free will to choose between Jesus and faithlessness.

That - is Christian theology.

We're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as revealed in Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone... not by our own works, lest any man boast. Your statement about the testing of our faith is false. We can't do enough to earn our salvation. The Bible says, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and also it says, "if we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, we're liars." Every single human has sinned (missed the mark) and have fallen short to the glory of God. Romans 10:9 says, "If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved." We are not saved by works, although works are a byproduct, it does show proof that we actually indeed are saved. Baptism doesn't save us, our gifting doesn't save us, speaking in "tongues" does not save us... Only Christ's blood. His sacrificial atonement for our sins.

Whoever did this monstrosity to this little girl you speak of will answer to and be judged by God one day. Belief in Him is the only thing that makes us righteous, because we are not on our own.

The little girl who was raped and killed, is this a personal experience that you endured?

Yeah and the Bible says money is the root of evil. Still people toss money in the baskets hoping it buys them the stairway to heaven.

I knew a young man back in the 70s who was into LSD, marijuana and alcohol. He woke up one morning after a binge, and said he had a calling. So he became a pastor. He is now a millionaire. Damn, religion is sure profitable.

Giving money does not earn our salvation. We put our faith in what Christ did on the cross ALONE for our salvation. Works do not save anyone. Christ's blood does, His sacrificial atonement for our sins alone saves us. We do not have the power to save ourselves, only Christ in me - His righteousness. No man may boast because it's not of us!

Yes, some people are peddlers of the Gospel. This is a genuine concern that even I and many other Christians have a problem with. Making merchandise out of God's people. That is not okay and these people will give an account of what they've done here to God Himself one day.

 

[Stuart-T]

We're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as revealed in Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone... not by our own works, lest any man boast. Your statement about the testing of our faith is false. We can't do enough to earn our salvation. The Bible says, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and also it says, "if we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, we're liars." Every single human has sinned (missed the mark) and have fallen short to the glory of God. Romans 10:9 says, "If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved." We are not saved by works, although works are a byproduct, it does show proof that we actually indeed are saved. Baptism doesn't save us, our gifting doesn't save us, speaking in "tongues" does not save us... Only Christ's blood. His sacrificial atonement for our sins.

Whoever did this monstrosity to this little girl you speak of will answer to and be judged by God one day. Belief in Him is the only thing that makes us righteous, because we are not on our own.

The little girl who was raped and killed, is this a personal experience that you endured?

You are now preaching and making claims without supporting evidence.

Bible quotes is not evidence to me or anyone else who is not a Christian or Jew.

No, the raped girl is just an example.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Either there is a God and he doesn't give a shit about anyone, or there is no God. I'm leaning towards #2.

I have been homebound for 4 months with severe hyperacusis, I don't even give a shit about the tinnitus anymore. I'm in earmuffs 24/7 because any noise gives me prolonged pain (also spikes the tinnitus for days or weeks at a time).

All this after a year of insane atonal electric dentist drill type sounds from Klonopin. I have literally lost everything and I have a deadline to get better (once my lease is up), because I can't move.

Where is God? Is he in the clouds watching me, laughing? Is my life God's joke?

EDIT:

I guess, it could always be worse.

 

[just1morething]

I do not own any firearms but I'm damn glad that so many others in America do.

I don't own any guns either but I suppose they can act as a deterrent to criminal activity. I can't say I approve of rapid fire gun sales in our society because of the mass shootings recently. Charlton Heston once said that the U.S. had more shootings because of our mixed ethnicities.