Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

[Lane]

many orders of magnitude slower than that of the bacterial strains that complicate viral pneumonia and can cause sepsis.

Just to briefly mention, I believe your point is a valid one. However, the rate of spread of Lyme bacteria in the body varies enormously from person to person. Some people may have it for years, before they may be suddenly exposed to an undue amount of stress. This is often the catalyst for weakening their immune system, thus allowing the Lyme to migrate out of hidden places in the body where it been kept in check for years. In short, every time the body goes through a period of being immune compromised for whatever reason, the Lyme bacteria immediately pick up on that and proceed to the next step in the "colonization".

 

[Lane]

I thought this was interesting. The range was actually 36-51%, and is apparently due to a phenomenon known as "virus interference". This information would seem to contradict some of the recommendations being made on "non-fake" news outlets, where some "authorities" are recommending people get the flu vaccine to protect themselves from the coronavirus.

Prestigious VACCINE Journal: Flu Vaccine Increases Coronavirus Infection Risk 36%

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

It DOESN'T go back to normal. Things may improve, but normal is history. When we all got tinnitus, did our lives ever go back to normal? Of course not. Hopefully our lives improved after a while and our suffering is less than it was shortly after our injuries, but there's no way to go back to normal Or maybe another way of saying it is, welcome to the NEW normal.

It will miraculously cease to be an issue on Wednesday, November 4th 2020.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

Bill Gates, well known infection and immunology professor.

It's funny because if something big happens everyone will say "he told us, he is a genius" but if nothing happens everybody will forget about it. No risks taken making assumptions like this.

Panicking is useless. Making stacks is useless.
If everyone would be cautious, as they should be all year, with wearing mask if they are sick and washing their hands regularly, there would be virtually 0 contamination and in a one month all of this would be over, with no need of closing everything down.
The contamination is by droplets, there is no secret.

But we can thank the mass media for all the countdowns of death and all the apocalyptic theory that create a bubble of fear. Fortunately they don't do that for every virus.

Fun fact: the year of H1N1 there were less deaths from the flu because people were more cautious with their hygiene. I dream of a world where people would just be cautious and clean all year, and don't panic for every new virus.

Let's not forget that Bill Gates amassed the one of the largest personal fortunes in history by licensing to IBM an operating system that he didn't own. He then turned around and bought what became MS DOS from an unsuspecting local programmer for a mere $50,000 and passed it off as his own.

Another priceless gem:

"I see little commercial potential for the internet for the next 10 years," Gates allegedly said at one Comdex trade event in 1994, as quoted in the 2005 book "Kommunikation erstatter transport."

He's not exactly the great and virtuous oracle everyone seems to believe.

 

[Tybs]

"People buying toilet paper are retards hurr durr" is also god damned stupid. Calmly stocking up for plausible scenarios is smart.

While I agree with practically all of your points, I have a remark on this one.

Buying a bit extra is fine, but the current stocking up is ridiculous. Distribution centers are far from empty, even in countries that are critically hit by corona, so the supermarkets still get their daily refills: there won't be a shortage any time soon. The stocking up however is a big issue for people who work during the day (e.g. in healthcare) or are otherwise limited in time, since they don't get a single chance to fulfill their needs if the supermarket is empty every time they can finally come over.

People need to realize that they're not the only person on this globe, leave something for the rest.

 

[FGG]

It will miraculously cease to be an issue on Wednesday, November 4th 2020.

If this is a mere political plot, then why is Trump "own goaling" himself on this then?

In the last two days, he personally is sounding the alarms suddenly. Kinda pokes holes in the "liberal conspiracy" theory then doesn't it?

 

[Jack V]

First we would need to address the incorrect statistics that you provided.

You would need to compare actual missions per shuttle rather than just the number of shuttles in use. 135 Space shuttle missions vs the 5 Space Shuttles that actually flew missions.

The total number of crew members of all 135 space shuttle missions: 833.

Number of crew members that died: 14

That means that 1.680672268907563% of all Space Shuttle crewmembers died during their missions on a vehicle that traveled at speeds of 17,500 miles per hour. All things considered that's not a bad track record for what it is.

*The 2003 accident could arguably be excluded because it was the result of a completely unnecessary replacement of the standard tank foam with a harder "environmentally friendly" foam that damaged the tiles on take off and led to the eventual disaster during reentry. Apparently someone at NASA was concerned that having a relatively small piece of the safer foam fall into a swamp in the middle of nowhere was a major problem and decided to replace it with the harder Astronaut killing foam that caused the accident. A perfect example of how alarmist overreactions can cause dire unintended consequences.

The total number of passengers that flew on commercial airliners in 2017 alone was 4.1 billion. I wasn't able to find the exact statistics for the entire history of commercial aviation but based on that number it's probably safe to assume it's around 50 billion.

The number of people killed in commercial airline crashes since 1942 is approximately 75,000.

That means that 0.00015000000000000001% of all
commercial airline passengers over the past 80 years have died during their flight. We could more specific and adjust for the fact the Shuttle program only lasted 30 years but it really isn't necessary for our purposes.

In theory traveling on the Space Shuttle is 11,200x more likely to result in death than traveling on a commercial airliner.

In reality 74,986 more people have died on the statistically safer mode of transportation.

My statistics are correct. They're just not what you want them to be.

I said "1/3 of all Space Shuttles ultimately exploded during flight, while planes have a failure rate of almost zero."

That's true. Out of 6 Space Shuttles (Shuttles, not missions), 2 of them exploded during flight, i.e. 1/3.

Imagine, for example, how many people would fly if 1/3 of all aircraft ultimately exploded during flight.

The point is that even though the number of fatalities as a result of spaceflight are relatively low in comparison to the number of fatalities from airplane crashes, the chances of dying on a Space Shuttle are much higher.

Similarly, even though the number of fatalities as a result of coronavirus are relatively low in comparison to the number of fatalities from the flu (for now), the chances of dying from coronavirus are much higher.

That's not really all that controversial, not really sure why we're squabbling about it.

 

[Jack V]

It's nice to see you've gotten a head start on the damage control that is going to occur once this thing fizzles and the inevitable finger pointing that will happen in response to the massive economic damage that the overresponse will have caused.

Honestly, if the only bad thing to come of this is that the economy took a temporary nosedive, I'd be more likely to celebrate than waste time on "damage control."

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

The same reason that many of the corporations are jumping on the bandwagon. They're being pressured into it. His political opponents have done such effective job at riling up the masses that he now has no choice.

 

[FGG]

The same reason that many of the corporations are jumping on the bandwagon. They're being pressured into it. His political opponents have done such effective job at riling up the masses that he now has no choice.

So Trump knows it's bullshit but is feeling pressured now because of the media farce? This is pretty tin foil hat imo.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

My statistics are correct. They're just not what you want them to be.

I said "1/3 of all Space Shuttles ultimately exploded during flight, while planes have a failure rate of almost zero."

That's true. Out of 6 Space Shuttles (Shuttles, not missions), 2 of them exploded during flight, i.e. 1/3.

Imagine, for example, how many people would fly if 1/3 of all aircraft ultimately exploded during flight.

The point is that even though the number of fatalities as a result of spaceflight are relatively low in comparison to the number of fatalities from airplane crashes, the chances of dying on a Space Shuttle are much higher.

For the record only 5 of the shuttles were in use. The 6th was never deemed space-worthy. Either way it's an inappropriate way of presenting the data.

Similarly, even though the number of fatalities as a result of coronavirus are relatively low in comparison to the number of fatalities from the flu (for now), the chances of dying from coronavirus are much higher.

As evidenced in most of the countries where the testing has significantly increased the death rate decreases dramatically among those that are inflected. Estimations put it at between 2-20x more deadly than the flu but with increased testing identifying more infected individuals the percentage moves closer to the lower end of that spectrum. Regardless of where it ends up it isn't even close to the ratio of per flight deaths between Shuttle missions and commercial flights making it a wholly inadequate comparison.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

So Trump knows it's bullshit but is feeling pressured now because of the media farce? This is pretty tin foil hat imo.

Politicians caving into public pressure is literally the opposite of a conspiracy theory.

 

[FGG]

Politicians caving into public pressure is literally the opposite of a conspiracy theory.

But let's look at this in totality and apply Occam's razor here.

Is it more likely that China, South Korea, Italy, Spain, the UK (even though Trump is very close with Boris Johnson), The CDC, The WHO, Norway, Germany, Iran, The NBA, MLB, NHL, Disney, all airlines and cruise companies, the entire music industry and ticket master, and the film industry all conspired with the media (and were willing to lose trillions) to help liberals bring down Donald Trump and the pressure was so great Trump himself had to eventually start calling it an unprecedented disease and a dangerous crisis.

Or that COVID-19 is more dangerous than the flu?

 

[SugarMagnolia]

It will miraculously cease to be an issue on Wednesday, November 4th 2020.

I'm glad to learn that the world will be safe from a new virus by the results of one country's election.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

I'm glad to learn that the world will be safe from a new virus by the results of one country's election.

We'll be no less or more safe than we are the day before. The only difference is that there will no longer be any political advantage to catastrophizing the situation.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

But let's look at this in totality and apply Occam's razor here.

Is it more likely that China, South Korea, Italy, Spain, the UK (even though Trump is very close with Boris Johnson), The CDC, The WHO, Norway, Germany, Iran, The NBA, MLB, NHL, Disney, all airlines and cruise companies, the entire music industry and ticket master, and the film industry all conspired with the media (and were willing to lose trillions) to help liberals bring down Donald Trump and the pressure was so great Trump himself had to eventually start calling it an unprecedented disease and a dangerous crisis.

Or that COVID-19 is more dangerous than the flu?

Facts trump Occam's razor:

50 confirmed deaths in the US during 3 months of outbreak compared to 34,200 from previous Influenza season (Oct. 2018 - April 2019) which averaged approximately 200 deaths per day. Minimal preventative measures were taken during that outbreak which resulted in 684x the current death rate from Coronavirus.

Other countries are free to respond as they see fit although there is almost certainly a degree of political pandering to it.

Political opposition to Trump in the US openly celebrating the damage to the US economy.

Cooperations are falling in line simply because they have to at this point. Failure to do so would damage their brand and open them up to potential liability.

 

[FGG]

Facts trump Occam's razor:

50 confirmed deaths in the US during 3 months of outbreak compared to 34,200 from previous Influenza season (Oct. 2018 - April 2019) which averaged approximately 200 deaths per day. Minimal preventative measures were taken during that outbreak which resulted in 684x the current death rate from Coronavirus.

Other countries are free to respond as they see fit although there is almost certainly a degree of political pandering to it.

Political opposition in to Trump in the US openly celebrating the damage to the US economy.

Cooperations are falling in line simply because they have to at this point. Failure to do so would damage their brand and open them up to potential liability.

You are pretty pot committed to this wild theory. I will give you that.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

You are pretty pot committed to this wild theory. I will give you that.

TIL that stating facts = being committed to a "wild theory".

 

[Bill Bauer]

40 Coronavirus deaths in the US to date vs 35,000 deaths annually from influenza.

 

[Bill Bauer]

50 confirmed deaths in the US during 3 months of outbreak compared to 34,200 from previous Influenza season (Oct. 2018 - April 2019)

You are comparing apples (the start of COVID-19) to oranges (the end of last year's flu).

The response is disproportionate to a realistic assessment of the actual threat.

Which part of "30-70% of the population will get the disease before herd immunity kicks in, and 20% of patients require hospitalization that lasts weeks, and 1% die" do you think is wrong. If it isn't wrong, and you agree that our healthcare system can't handle 20% of 30% (6%) or even 20% of 70% (14%) of the population requiring hospitalization, then how do you justify your statements?

People need to realize that they're not the only person on this globe, leave something for the rest.

People with childish beliefs like that will end up being the "grasshopper" in the "grasshopper and the ant" tale. They deserve what is coming to them.

You are pretty pot committed to this wild theory. I will give you that.

I don't think his theory is wild. It is actually self-evident. However, both his theory and the theory that this pandemic will be bad can both be true.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

In the winter seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17, an estimated average of 5,290,000 ILI cases occurred in Italy, corresponding to an incidence of 9%.

More than 68,000 deaths attributable to flu epidemics were estimated in the study period.

Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

You are comparing apples (the start of COVID-19) to oranges (the end of last year's flu).

I'm comparing the first 3 months of this outbreak to the full 6 months of the 2018-2019 flu season in the US. So far the current death rate is equivalent to 1/4 of a single day during that outbreak.

Which part of "30-70% of the population will get the disease before herd immunity kicks in, and 20% of patients require hospitalization that lasts weeks, and 1% die" do you think is wrong.

I'm comparing the first 3 months of this outbreak to the full 6 months of the 2018-2019 flu season in the US. So far the current death rate is equivalent to 1/4 of a single day during that outbreak.

our healthcare system can't handle 20% of 30% (6%) or even 20% of 70% (14%) of the population requiring hospitalization, then how do you justify your statements?

I'm comparing the first 3 months of this outbreak to the full 6 months of the 2018-2019 flu season in the US. So far the current death rate is equivalent to 1/4 of a single day during that outbreak.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I'm comparing the first 3 months of this outbreak to the full 6 months of the 2018-2019 flu season in the US. So far the current death rate is equivalent to 1/4 of a single day during that outbreak.

China has actively tried to stop their pandemic (e.g., households would get a permit for one person to leave the house to buy groceries), so their experience doesn't count. In Europe and in North America, the authorities aren't doing all they could be doing to stop this. So I think that Italy's outbreak began 4-5 weeks ago (and their healthcare system is already breaking down, with doctors basically denying treatments to older people and younger people with preexisting conditions). We are about 3 weeks behind Italy...

Also, you never explained exactly which facts (what I think are facts) you don't think are true:

Which part of "30-70% of the population will get the disease before herd immunity kicks in, and 20% of patients require hospitalization that lasts weeks, and 1% die" do you think is wrong. If it isn't wrong, and you agree that our healthcare system can't handle 20% of 30% (6%) or even 20% of 70% (14%) of the population requiring hospitalization, then how do you justify your statements?

 

[Bill Bauer]

corresponding to an incidence of 9%.

In Wuhan, and in Northern Italy (the regions where the healthcare system broke down) the DEATH rate was/is close to 5%.

 

[Lane]

Political opposition to Trump in the US openly celebrating the damage to the US economy.

You sound like a Trumper. First it was Don Jr. saying Democrats are hoping millions of people will die just so it will increase the chances of getting rid of Trump. Now (similarly) you seem to be saying a large swatch of Trump's political opponents are rooting for the downfall of the American economy for the same reason. Really? You've been trying to inject politics into this thread for some time now, so I guess we can all assume you really believe this sh*t. I guess sort of like the 70%+ of Republicans who believe Obama was a Muslim and wasn't born in the U.S. Doesn't say a lot for the intelligence of the Repubs.

The most overtly political words since this whole thing started has come from Trump himself; talking about some kind of ridiculous "Obama Rule", which greatly hampered their ability to get adequate testing started. Nobody knows what the hell he's talking about, as there was never anything even remotely resembling such a rule. But it's clear Trump will make up any kind of fantasy to try to bail himself out of his own failures. The way I see it, we have a full-fledged crisis on our hands (both economic and health related), and the king of lies seems to be doubling down on his lies. Sadly, most of his supporters still consider his words gospel. Pretty pathetic really.

The link is to a sobering appraisal by a lifelong Republican, written in a conservative magazine, of just how dangerous this guy is for the U.S. and the world, especially at this time of so many uncertainties surrounding the coronavirus.

The Trump Presidency Is Over
It has taken a good deal longer than it should have, but Americans have now seen the con man behind the curtain.

PETER WEHNER

• MARCH 13, 2020

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

In Europe and in North America, the authorities aren't doing all they could be doing to stop this.

In the US they've managed to bring everything from sporting events to business actives to a screeching halt. The media has sensationalized this story almost beyond 9/11 coverage. People are stockpiling food and supplies like it's the end of the world all based on 50 deaths in 3 months. If our healthcare system gets overwhelmed it's more likely to be the result of people overreacting and placing strain on our system as a result of having it drummed into them nonstop that the end is nigh.

Which part of "30-70% of the population will get the disease before herd immunity kicks in

There won't be a 30-70% scenario.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

You sound like a Trumper.

Wrong. Voted for HRC in 2016.

hoping millions of people will die just so it will increase the chances of getting rid of Trump

They seem to more focused on driving the economy into the ground in order to defeat Trump.

Now (similarly) you seem to be saying a large swatch of Trump's political opponents are rooting for the downfall of the American economy.

I never said a "large swatch". I said that his political opponents are excited by the prospect of damage to economy. I think most reasonable people do not hope for such a thing but are helping to make that a reality by mindlessly buying into the hysteria.

You've been trying to inject politics into this thread for some time now, so I guess we can all assume you really believe this sh*t.

I believe that the response has been disproportionate to the actual threat. I believe that shutting down the country in response to a virus that so far has killed 50 people in it's first 3 months is excessive when compared to our most recent flu season during which 34,200 people died and little media attention was directed towards it.

guess sort of like the 70%+ of Republicans who believe Obama was a Muslim and wasn't born in the U.S.

I don't care where he was born or what his religious beliefs are. I happen to believe Hillary was the better choice in 2008.

The most overtly political words since this whole thing started has come from Trump himself; talking about some kind of ridiculous "Obama Rule", which greatly hampered their ability to get adequate testing started. Nobody knows what the hell he's talking about, as there was never anything even remotely resembling such a rule. But it's clear Trump will make up any kind of fantasy to try to bail himself out of his own failures. The way I see it, we have a full-fledged crisis on our hands (both economic and health related), and the king of lies seems to be doubling down on his lies. Sadly, most of his supporters still consider his words gospel. Pretty pathetic really.

Incoherent Anti-Trump babble.

 

[linearb]

I didn't want to be a dick, but YEAH your plant looked like shit... You said it doesn't matter, it looked like that... My tinnitus doesn't allow me to smoke because it goes 3x higher. Haven't smoked in probably 1.5 years at least.

Oh, the plant looks totally fine once you cut all that ugly trim leaf away . It doesn't matter, because I turn this all into oil/shatter using cryo/ethanol extraction, so I don't trim most of it. This is the same plant:

Strains with some CBD in them (like this) spike my tinnitus less than THC distillate, but, overall the net gains in sleep quality and quantity outweigh any issues, and combined with the rest of my med stack, weed seems to have an overall soothing effect on my sensory system.

Politics.

This is not an answer; you're making outlandish claims, you cannot just give one word that's a general concept.

Do you think Italy is overreacting? Do you not understand that CDC's own estimates at this point indicate we may need more hospital beds than we've got here, barring some new treatment and/or sufficiently flattening the curve?

a virus that so far has killed 50 people in it's first 3 months

The virus has barely begun to spread here; also the US death count is at 57 as of right now. And, given the hilariously limited number of tests we've done, it'd be dumb not to assume that our overall counts (positive, recovered, and dead) are all substantially higher than what we know of. Now if an old person kicks it of pneumonia there is some chance they will be tested; 2-3 weeks ago that was not happening here at all.

FFS people this is not "end times, buy all the toilet paper", it's "novel virus, stay home as much as possible so you don't kill old people and/or immunocompromised people unnecessarily."

Generally bat viruses end up mutating into something less lethal in humans, because our immune systems are relatively awful in comparison, but there is no guarantee of this. At least AFAICT it's not really possible for viruses in this class to mutate to something that can float in the air like measels.

 

[Bill Bauer]

50 people in it's first 3 months

Oh, so you are just going to ignore what I posted without bothering to explain why you think what I posted is wrong.

In the US they've managed to bring everything from sporting events to business actives to a screeching halt.

That's nothing compared to what will eventually have to be done - requiring people to not leave their home.

There won't be a 30-70% scenario.

I haven't been saving any links, but one source off of the top of my head is Angela Merkel, who stated that up to 70% might become infected.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cted-population-experts-vaccine-a9394326.html
Surely she has access to good experts. But this is one source in a huge set of sources that all state the same thing.

Here are some more, but there are many more out there
https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...ld-hit-3-billion-adults-harvard-expert-2020-3
https://lactualite.com/actualites/c...anadiens-pourraient-etre-infectes-dit-ottawa/

People are stockpiling food and supplies like it's the end of the world all based on 50 deaths in 3 months.

They understand how exponential growth works and how epidemics work.

If our healthcare system gets overwhelmed it's more likely to be the result of people overreacting and placing strain on our system

The doctors in Italy are already turning older people and people with preexisting conditions away. This explains their higher death rate. Are you saying it isn't going to happen anywhere else?

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

This is not an answer; you're making outlandish claims, you cannot just give one word that's a general concept.

It's a reasonable conclusion to draw.

Is the media and government response to this crisis proportionate to the response to other recent viruses with drastically higher death tolls? No.

Is this overzealous response causing damage to the US economy? Yes.

Which political party stands to benefit in the 2020 presidential election if the economy is struggling? Democrats.

Do you think Italy is overreacting?

To a lesser extent than we are.

(see my subsequent post.)

Do you not understand that CDC's own ESTIMATES.

When this thing fails to live up to the hype the people that wanted this to be true are going to spend the next 4 years whining about it they same way they still carry on about HRC winning the popular vote in 2016.

The virus has barely begun to spread here; also the US death count is at 57 as of right now.

3 months into this thing so far we've hit a death toll consistent with 1/4 of a single day during our last flu season.

And, given the hilariously limited number of tests we've done, it'd be dumb not to assume that our overall counts (positive, recovered, and dead) are all substantially higher than what we know of.

Increased testing will produce more cases but drive down the death rate for those infected.