MemberThere is no available evidence for or against it being a placebo.
How can they provide something they cannot obtain? And how does their inability to do so in anyway reinforce your argument?
Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod
- Thread starter Tinnitus Talk
- Start date
How can they provide something they cannot obtain? And how does their inability to do so in anyway reinforce your argument?
No, but I guess I should as I won't like to pay 1000€ for the 1st appointment in Hannover (although it's just 2 hours by car).
I'm wondering this too, as they told me I would hear from them by the end of November. Any information you can share would be appreciated. If I don't hear anything this week, I might call them again.
There is some physical evidence that Lenire works. One of the users has said that his tinnitus decreased, and his improvement was actually measured at his final visit at Neuromod office. I don't know if other users also have actually measured their decrease in tinnitus.
I think that it could be harder to measure the intensity of person's tinnitus, rather than the loudness. For example, if you have 10 different sounds in your tinnitus, and Lenire decreases the loudness of one of those sounds, can you measure the improvement in your tinnitus? Some people on this forum would just say that you're experiencing placebo effect.
I think that it could be harder to measure the intensity of person's tinnitus, rather than the loudness. For example, if you have 10 different sounds in your tinnitus, and Lenire decreases the loudness of one of those sounds, can you measure the improvement in your tinnitus? Some people on this forum would just say that you're experiencing placebo effect.
- Aug 3, 2019
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 1/1/15
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Working aircraft on tarmacs
I wonder if a placebo effect can last for a very long time? Our minds are quite the mystery...
No, a few days ago they told me they are going to email me as soon as possible for 2020 appointments.
I don't think asking again would change anything, maybe even annoy them or block their capacities.
Let's hope we will hear from them in December!
It's as close as we can get to evidence right now, but the current measurement methods are lacking in one thing: they measure the patient's findings, which are subjective.
There still is no foolproof way to objectively measure the exact sounds that a person is hearing. I guess this is one of the reasons that so many ENTs stay away from tinnitus development as far as possible. At least pain is clearly recognizable for everyone, but sound? It's already hard to describe exactly what one hears, never mind the lack of objective data...
Not saying that I doubt the testimonies or the bimodal process itself. This is still the field that looks most promising IMO when it comes to a cure. I just hope some true objective measurement technique surfaces eventually, so that there can no longer be any doubt as to whether a treatment has effect or not.
I do wonder if EEG measurements before and after would be an indicator for what is happening. According to a paper by Sven Vanneste and others there were some EEG similarities between tinnitus and depression.
Can someone give me a TLDR of recent events with Lenire?
I have been following the User Experiences thread, but not this one. Based on that thread it seems to be hit or miss, but certain timings work better for others. Has Neuromod confirmed personalizing the treatment more?
I have been following the User Experiences thread, but not this one. Based on that thread it seems to be hit or miss, but certain timings work better for others. Has Neuromod confirmed personalizing the treatment more?
Would be quite intesting indeed.
Unfortunately, there is no way to accurately predict whether someone will get tinnitus or not. Still, it should be possible to invite a X amount of adults that are physically fine for a test, and do a new test a few years later to check for changes. Statistically, at least some of them should have obtained tinnitus: the others could serve as an indicator whether observed changes happen in a regular person as well.
With an objective measurement, some people might finally shut up about it all being between the ears... well, figuratively. Literally the issue actually exists there, of course
- Apr 12, 2019
- 29
- Tinnitus Since
- 12/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear wax removal with suction by ENT
It's not so much about the prediction. Relating to Lenire and other treatments for tinnitus it would be interesting what effect it has on the signaling of the brain. Since we can measure it and at least Brai3n in Belgium has an array of different tinnitus treatment options and are apparently on the way to offer Lenire + Sven recently moved to Dublin to work on further subtyping of tinnitus, my bet is that using EEG will give us a better picture of wtf is happening. Would love if it was to be incorporated into Lenire to datamine us patients to get a better understanding. Sadly we are in commercial territory in a way...Would be quite intesting indeed.
Unfortunately, there is no way to accurately predict whether someone will get tinnitus or not. Still, it should be possible to invite a X amount of adults that are physically fine for a test, and do a new test a few years later to check for changes. Statistically, at least some of them should have obtained tinnitus: the others could serve as an indicator whether observed changes happen in a regular person as well.
With an objective measurement, some people might finally shut up about it all being between the ears... well, figuratively. Literally the issue actually exists there, of course
There have been more successful updates on this thread showing further progress for some of the users themselves or if not from members who know others that are using the device.
It seems Neuromod is using PS1 setting for most the first time, then PS4, then back to PS1 again, as they have said this was their most successful setting.
PS1 seems to be the juice. Whenever people switch to PS4 it's usually not as good but it usually still works, it's mostly to keep PS1 effective.
FWIW Tinnitus Talk also has been collecting data from people who tried Lenire, and their numbers are way more impressive than mine, with 40 people instead of 24. Basically, the success rate is pretty good like many in the thread have been saying, but there is a feature besides hyperacusis that's correlated with higher reduction rates. They can't say however because it may tamper with future data collection.
AfroSnowman
Member
- Jul 23, 2019
- 1,075
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Nonnatural energy source
It makes me wonder, especially with the costs involved in international travel, whether a 6 week timeout on PS1 would serve the same purpose of dehabituating the brain as turning on and off PS4 for 6 weeks.
I was offered an appointment today, finally after waiting for so long. It's on the 4th of February. Obviously, I'm going to accept.
AfroSnowman
Member
- Jul 23, 2019
- 1,075
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Nonnatural energy source
Hi everybody,
I received my invitation today. I want to try it but are the results good enough to take the risk?
Last time I paid for therapy in Germany, low-level laser therapy thing for 2200€... To be honest I'm a bit scared to be fooled again...
I also have hearing loss in the ear where I have my tinnitus. So it might be possible to not be accepted for Lenire at the end...
I received my invitation today. I want to try it but are the results good enough to take the risk?
Last time I paid for therapy in Germany, low-level laser therapy thing for 2200€... To be honest I'm a bit scared to be fooled again...
I also have hearing loss in the ear where I have my tinnitus. So it might be possible to not be accepted for Lenire at the end...
So happy to hear it's going forward guys!
When did you sign up? I signed up end of June, so hopefully gettin' my appointment soon, too!
HOPE be with you!
When did you sign up? I signed up end of June, so hopefully gettin' my appointment soon, too!
HOPE be with you!
AfroSnowman
Member
- Jul 23, 2019
- 1,075
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Nonnatural energy source
Gut check complete. I am hopefully scheduled on the 17th of January.
I view it as a 30% chance of a game changing difference, a 35% of minor improvement, and a 35% chance of being a non-responder. Ultimately the cost and effort is worth a 30% chance of getting my life back and even a minor improvement depending on what that sounds like could be enough to help me live life better while waiting the two years for Susan Shore's product to hit the market.
I view it as a 30% chance of a game changing difference, a 35% of minor improvement, and a 35% chance of being a non-responder. Ultimately the cost and effort is worth a 30% chance of getting my life back and even a minor improvement depending on what that sounds like could be enough to help me live life better while waiting the two years for Susan Shore's product to hit the market.
@AfroSnowman @Lurius would you be so kind as to reminding us when you submitted your interest to Neuromod? I believe it was summer, 2019, but helpful for folks on this list to understand potentially where they may be in the line. Thank you!
Hi guys,
I also got my appointment.
It will be on the 27th of February.
It was a long wait... I made my booking at 7th June.
First appointment will be 250€.
Can you please remind me the appointment process? When will the second payment be?
Thanks.
I also got my appointment.
It will be on the 27th of February.
It was a long wait... I made my booking at 7th June.
First appointment will be 250€.
Can you please remind me the appointment process? When will the second payment be?
Thanks.
- Apr 12, 2019
- 29
- Tinnitus Since
- 12/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear wax removal with suction by ENT
Got my appointment for March 2020. Which is great as I receive my yearly bonus that month. I would love it if by that time it would be possible to do the initial screening and receive the device in a two week window to avoid a double or triple trip, but I doubt it would be possible.
JohnK
Member
- Nov 10, 2015
- 311
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/26/2015 (habituated) 5/13/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Doxycycline (2015) Otimize ear drops [neomycin] (2019)
For most people the results aren't complete silence level, but it is helping most by some reduction of volume, change of pitch, making it easier to mask and forget about in day to day life, etc. There is a small minority that it may not help much, but the overall the odds are still much in our favor for at least some reduction.
You can look over the User Experiences thread to help, but there actually has been more positive feedback here from those same users on this thread and also from people other members know but aren't on the site.
I'll put it this way. Look at how many people are happy about finally getting appointments, myself included.
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