Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Mpt]

ATEOS... No I'm not the Matt that you have been on conversing with... But im also considering b12 injections.... Have you seen any studies where that is more effective than taking an oral supplement though?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Well at least you have started with LLLT again! I saw in your last posts that you had upped the mw rating and length of time exposure. I hope you see results and that your T comes down or better still disappears completely.

I have indeed increased the therapy dosage. When doing so, one should keep in mind, the Arndt-Schulz law of pharmacology. The law is old and no longer used in medicine, but the overall principles still apply in a number of situations.

Essentially you can approach therapy dosage in a number of ways:

1) Increase the dosage by increasing the length of the therapy, but keeping the strength of the medicine constant, or
2) Increase the dosage by increasing the strength of the medicine, but keeping the length of the therapy constant, or
3) Deliver the same dosage split across several therapies instead of all-in-one-go, or
4) Deliver the same dosage using different strengths of medicine - and varying the length of therapy accordingly.

At some point the increase in dosage becomes detrimental - and it is therefore important to consider what part of the curve the treatment is at.

For LLLT the dosage is calculated as: Energy (J)=Power (W)×Time (s)



The diagram above is one specific instance of the Arndt-Schulz curve specific for LLLT (and not the generalized curve for other medicine).

If I get results from my therapy, I will share the protocol I have used.

 

[SteveToHeal]

Thanks ATEOS.

Your posts are extremely helpful to me and no doubt to the rest of the community.

-Steve

 

[LondonGirl]

@Owch - just reading back previous posts on this forum, I see that you had treatment at Dr Wilden's clinic and are using the laser at home too. Would you say it has had any effect on your tinnitus or your hearing so far?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

ATEOS... No I'm not the Matt that you have been on conversing with... But im also considering b12 injections.... Have you seen any studies where that is more effective than taking an oral supplement though?

As with any medical intervention, one has to ask oneself - what is it I want to achieve and how do I want to achieve it? For that, a correct diagnosis is required as well as the correct "medicine". What has been found is that people suffering from noise induced hearing loss tend to have low vitamin b12 levels. Correcting this deficiency does not necessarily correct the (associated?) tinnitus - but it may improve it. The reason intramuscular injections are suggested is because vitamin b12 is poorly absorbed via the oral route. But... if one has a correct diagnosis beforehand - and a correct follow-up diagnosis after the treatment, then using the oral route should be just as good (provided it works). But not everyone chooses to have blood screening afterwards - in which case the intramuscular method is the "foolproof" way of achieving the desired result. Intramuscular injections can be self-administered (after demonstration by the physician). Here's one of my many blood screening samples from my first stem cell treatment last summer (this one concerning antioxidant levels):



As can be seen, even otherwise healthy individuals can be deficient without knowing it...

 

[HelmutK.]

I can say, that the lasertreatment helped me very much. I had the Lumomed Lasertherapy (at the clinic of Amon Kaiser - he is the son of Dr. Wilden). He did a combination of lasertreatments for the inner ear and psychological training to reduce emotional stress. You can find my report under "itroduction". So I do not have to write it double.

 

[tomytl]

I can say, that the lasertreatment helped me very much. I had the Lumomed Lasertherapy (at the clinic of Amon Kaiser - he is the son of Dr. Wilden). He did a combination of lasertreatments for the inner ear and psychological training to reduce emotional stress. You can find my report under "itroduction". So I do not have to write it double.

Hi Helmut,

did it also help with hearing loss? Did you have better hearing after treatment?
How many sessions did you attend?


Greets Tom

 

[HelmutK.]

Hi Tom,

yes it also helped with my hearing loss. I had 10 treatments. (But I have to say, that my hearing loss became better before - not that good like after the therapy but it regenerated also because of protection. Mr Kaiser explained it to me - he said, that my consequent wearing of ear protection is the reason for the improvement of hearing before the lasertherapy).

 

[attheedgeofscience]

ScientificWorldJournal. 2013 Oct 28;2013:596076. doi: 10.1155/2013/596076. eCollection 2013.
Efficacy of low-level laser therapy in the management of tinnitus due to noise-induced hearing loss: a double-blind randomized clinical trial.
Mollasadeghi A1, Mirmohammadi SJ, Mehrparvar AH, Davari MH, Shokouh P, Mostaghaci M, Baradaranfar MH, Bahaloo M.
Author information
Abstract
Background. Several remedial modalities for the treatment of tinnitus have been proposed, but an effective standard treatment is still to be confirmed. In the present study, we aimed to evaluate the effect of low-level laser therapy on tinnitus accompanied by noise-induced hearing loss. Methods. This was a double-blind randomized clinical trial on subjects suffering from tinnitus accompanied by noise-induced hearing loss. The study intervention was 20 sessions of low-level laser therapy every other day, 20 minutes each session. Tinnitus was assessed by three methods (visual analog scale,tinnitus handicap inventory, and tinnitus loudness) at baseline, immediately and 3 months after the intervention. Results. All subjects were male workers with age range of 30-51 years. The mean tinnitus duration was 1.85 ± 0.78 years. All three measurement methods have shown improved values after laser therapy compared with the placebo both immediately and 3 months after treatment. Laser therapy revealed a U-shaped efficacy throughout the course of follow-up. Nonresponse rate of the intervention was 57% and 70% in the two assessment time points, respectively. Conclusion. This study found low-level laser therapy to be effective in alleviating tinnitus in patients with noise-induced hearing loss, although this effect has faded after 3 months of follow-up. This trial is registered with the Australian New Zealand clinical trials registry with identifier

This is probably the kind of "stuff" you are looking for - and from a credible source.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22734788

(Of course, there is nothing in the journal that I didn't already know...)

 

[attheedgeofscience]

For those interested in LLLT and some highly specific knowledge of the inner ear (the kind you will never find at your ENTs office) - have a read of this relatively short 15 page document. Unfortunately, it is not in English, but it is well illustrated.

http://www.dasgesundeohr.de/LLLT-Therapie/index.html#page/1

For those not interested in LLLT, why don't you go watch another episode of the Oprah Winfrey Show...


EDIT:

The document in the link, above, is an extract from a longer version which can be found on Dr. Wilden's homepage. In my opinion, this is probably some of the best literature on the physiology of the inner ear and LLLT, in-the-world...

 

[tomytl]

LLLT Homelaser EMLAS Konftec with 3 Laser for stimulation at "different parts" in the cochlea. Cost: 1090 USD
90 days money back guarantee.
Expectation: just check if there is an effect on this controversial discussed subject.

660 nm 50 mW (per side) 200 - 500 Hz/800-2000Hz
780 nm 90 mW (per side) 500-800Hz/2000-4000Hz
808 nm 90 mW (per side) 4000-8000Hz
Usage: 30min everyday

UpdateI: after 3 weeks of use
Tinnitus (no effect)
Hearing Loss Threshold (no effect)
Pressure in the ear (no effect)
SideEffect (no effect)

the only positive effect until now is the relaxing warm feeling on the ear due to energy absorbtion of the diode (not the light beam)

UpdateII (next week)

 

[tomytl]

Hi,
an interesting finding about LLLT.
It's not about hearing, but LLLT seems to have some regenerative potential for nerve growth.

http://www.sciencecodex.com/researchers_use_light_to_coax_stem_cells_to_repair_teeth-134516


"The new work marks the first time that scientists have gotten to the nub of how low-level laser treatments work on a molecular level, and lays the foundation for controlled treatment protocol"

Greets Tom

 

[rainman]

I'm talking about only H here- if theres no better treatment in 2 years, i will go ahead and take another week of more powerful LLLT treatment in clinic. Did very much help with my sensitivity and still does at home. with my work i wear 8h a day musician earprotection and if im getting sensitive, then an half hour of laser pen has helped. This first real testing does not surprise me. This is the only thing i invested money in with my H condition and im glad my gut feeling didnt let me down. Im sure LLLT will get good push now, with more enlightening coming up.

 

[HelmutK.]

http://www.tinnitool.com/global/media/pdf/Doppelblind-Studie_Veroeffentlichung_gb.pdf

 

[HelmutK.]

Sorry but these text is only in German language, perhapes you can translate it with a programm (it is a press Text). The lasers that they use are very soft copared to the lasers I was treated with!


Drei neue Studien zur Behandlung von Tinnitus (Ohrensausen) veröffentlicht
Unabhängige Studien bestätigen Wirksamkeit der Softlaser-Behandlung



Zürich (pts005/03.08.2012/07:15) - Die Wirksamkeit der TinniTool Softlaser-Therapie wurde bereits früher von zwei unabhängigen Studien bestätigt. Vom ENT Department, Piacenza Clinic in Italien und von der AL-Ahliyya Amman University in Jordanien. In diesem Jahr sind drei weitere Studien veröffentlicht worden, welche zum gleichen Resultat führten.

Die Studie - von Prof. Marina Savastano und ihrem Team von der Università di Padova aus Italien - wurde mit 49 Tinnitus-Patienten durchgeführt. Bei allen Patienten wurde ein TinniTool Softlaser mit 5 mW Leistung und 650nm Wellenlänge angewendet. Der Softlaser verfügte über einen Kopfbügel, welches den Betroffenen erlaubte, die Anwendung zielgerichtet und bequem von zuhause durchzuführen. Die Behandlung bestand aus einer dreimonatigen Anwendung von 20 Minute pro Tag. Die Untersuchungsreihe wurde mit dem genormten Tinnitus Handicap Inventory (THI) Verfahren geprüft. Die Intensität verminderte sich zwischen 10-20 dB bei fünf Probanden, 25-40 dB bei 17, 40-60 dB bei 19, 60-70 dB bei drei und 70-90 dB bei drei Personen. Bei zwei Probanden wurde keine Verbesserung festgestellt. Fazit: Es wurde eine statistisch signifikante Reduktion der Tinnitus-Intensitätsschwelle beobachtet.

Die Studie - von Dr. Ahmed H Salahaldin und seinem Team, vom General Hospital, Hamad Medical Corporation in Qatar - umfasste 65 Patienten im Alter von 15 - 76 Jahre mit chronischen Tinnitus, mit einer minimalen Dauer der Erkrankung von einem Jahr. Die Untersuchung umfasste 101 Ohren von 65 Patienten. Ein 5 mW Softlaser von TinniTool mit einer Wellenlänge von 650 nm wurde für 20 Minuten, einmal täglich, für drei Monate angewendet. Über die Hälfte der Patienten (56,9%) konnten eine markante Verbesserung der Tinnitus-Symptome verzeichnen. Eine leichte Verbesserung wurde bei 33,8%, eine markante Verbesserung bei 16,9% und eine komplette Heilung bei 6,15% der Patienten festgestellt. Bei Patienten, mit Schwindel-Anfälle erfuhren 27,7% eine leichte Verbesserung und 16,9% eine komplette Heilung. Fazit: Die Softlaser Therapie erwies sich als nützlich für die Behandlung des chronischen Tinnitus.

Die Studie - von Dr. Juan Carlos Olmo und seinem Team, vom Instituto Costarricense de Audiología Clínicas de la Audición aus Costa Rica - wurde mit 22 Patienten, im Alter zwischen 36 und 61 Jahren, mit langjährigen, chronischen Tinnitus durchgeführt. Alles Patienten, welche bereits von HNO Ärzten erfolglos behandelt wurden. Diese Gruppe wurde jetzt mit dem EarLaser behandelt. Die Ergebnisse zeigten eine markante Verbesserung bei 45%, eine komplette Heilung bei 20%, keine Änderung bei 35% der Patienten. Insgesamt zeigte die Softlaser-Therapie bei 59% der Fälle eine markante Wirkung. Fazit: Die Softlaser-Therapie erwies sich als eine gute Alternative für Patienten, die vorab erfolglos versuchten eine andere medizinische oder chirurgische Lösung zu finden.

 

[tomytl]

LLLT Homelaser EMLAS Konftec with 3 Laser for stimulation at "different parts" in the cochlea. Cost: 1090 USD
90 days money back guarantee.
Expectation: just check if there is an effect on this controversial discussed subject.

660 nm 50 mW (per side) 200 - 500 Hz/800-2000Hz
780 nm 90 mW (per side) 500-800Hz/2000-4000Hz
808 nm 90 mW (per side) 4000-8000Hz
Usage: 30min everyday

UpdateI: after 3 weeks of use
Tinnitus (no effect)
Hearing Loss Threshold (no effect)
Pressure in the ear (no effect)
SideEffect (no effect)

the only positive effect until now is the relaxing warm feeling on the ear due to energy absorbtion of the diode (not the light beam)

UpdateII (next week)

UpdateII: after approx. 6 weeks of use
Tinnitus (no effect)
Hearing Loss Threshold (no effect)
Pressure in the ear (no effect)
SideEffect (no effect)

So there is still no noticeable change.

Greets Tom

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

30mW infrared and 90mW 808nm if I recall correctly, Chinese brand lasers I forgot the name.

Hi Dan
Hope everything is ok. But you buy a laser from a chinese brand on the internet?
How much love do you have for your ears.
I do clothing production in china. And chinese use a lot a word " similar" as "same" . Hope you understand what that means. For a chinese similar is the same as "same". in other words as if it´s red and it´s light, is a laser.
Attention with that people and what they sell. I worked for a chinese company and know how they think. I´m absolut sure that the guy that sold you the laser in china, is driving a Audi or a Mercedes. Dr Wilden,last time I saw him was in VW green Van.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

UpdateII: after approx. 6 weeks of use
Tinnitus (no effect)
Hearing Loss Threshold (no effect)
Pressure in the ear (no effect)
SideEffect (no effect)

So there is still no noticeable change.

Greets Tom

I´m not here to protect Dr Wilden. But buying devices from internet to Chinese internet companies?
There are more chances in the world to find cure that those products really work. I know you have 90 days return.
Just try and see what they say?

 

[tomytl]

In other words you think this lasers aren't lasers at all?
How is your treatment going? Maybe you could ask Dr. Wilden about differences
between his laser and some others...
I have no idea, I'm just trying.

Greets Tom

 

[SteveToHeal]

No - they are lasers. I just don't know if they work or not.

I haven't done any TRT treatment yet. I see her tomorrow.

Nah - i pretty much ran down that road with Wilden and co and came to the conclusion it's Russian roulette re LLLT. At the end of the day, its Konftec, Luci or MLS. Who knows what they really do or claim to do? When I asked the difference between Luci or MLS, Luci people said Luci was the later model to MLS.

 

[SteveToHeal]

No - they are lasers. I just don't know if they work or not.

I haven't done any TRT treatment yet. I see her tomorrow.

Nah - i pretty much ran down that road with Wilden and co and came to the conclusion it's Russian roulette re LLLT. At the end of the day, its Konftec, Luci or MLS. Who knows what they really do or claim to do? When I asked the difference between Luci or MLS, Luci people said Luci was the later model to MLS.

There might even be other LLLT devices on the market but those are the three that hit my radar. Sorry man. I think we know about as much as the next guy re LLLT. From what i read, u have to persist. It's not great. But u never know, it might just work for you.

 

[dan]

Yes, it was Konftec I used.

 

[tomytl]

Yes, it was Konftec I used.

Hi Dan,
did you have success with the Konftec?
I'm still using it without any noticable effect in T/HL/Hyperacusis and pressure in the ear.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

In other words you think this lasers aren't lasers at all?
How is your treatment going? Maybe you could ask Dr. Wilden about differences
between his laser and some others...
I have no idea, I'm just trying.

Greets Tom

I just realise, there are two persons on the fórum with Konftec laser, and no results. And others that got results with lasers from Dr Wilden. I think you got some results in the past with a laser ( not Konftec I think). maybe just something to consider. There are other brands not only the ones from Dr Wilden. But just realise two person with same suplier got no results. And knowing the chinese people as well as I do, they can do anything to get sales.

That is why I asked yo to try to send back, Just check there reaction? Of corse the decision is up to you.

 

[tomytl]

I just realise, there are two persons on the fórum with Konftec laser, and no results. And others that got results with lasers from Dr Wilden. I think you got some results in the past with a laser ( not Konftec I think). maybe just something to consider. There are other brands not only the ones from Dr Wilden. But just realise two person with same suplier got no results. And knowing the chinese people as well as I do, they can do anything to get sales.

That is why I asked yo to try to send back, Just check there reaction? Of corse the decision is up to you.

I can compare the Tinnitool (wich has very low power) and the Konftec with much more power.
Konftec is much more bright....
I probably will return my Konftec, because there hasn't been any imporvement until now.

But to buy the MLS is a financial risk, because we also do not know if it really works.

For both, Konftec and MLS, there is almost no information to find if it's useful or not, this is what made/make me
very sceptical. But I'm happy for everybody who can speak about success..

Greets Tom

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

See my post.
I think there is something wrong with Audigrame from Dr wqilden, Cause in the one I made in Portugal the 12hz was less 60db. Something I need to clarify. But felling better for now let´see in the future, It takes time to work, If will work at all. But need to try.
At the same time does not make sense he rises the values, cause that wy he have no reason to try to sell the lasers.
Time will tell.

 

[Ken219]

Example I had a heart attack and 4 stents. My co-worker bypass and stents. My cardio believe one takes plavix for life. My co-worker was taken off after 6 months. Human guinea pigs?

 

[tomytl]

See my post.
I think there is something wrong with Audigrame from Dr wqilden, Cause in the one I made in Portugal the 12hz was less 60db. Something I need to clarify. But felling better for now let´see in the future, It takes time to work, If will work at all. But need to try.
At the same time does not make sense he rises the values, cause that wy he have no reason to try to sell the lasers.
Time will tell.

Yes, time is almost the biggest medicine with ear related problems. After my sudden hearing loss in 2003 I had
Tinnitus/Hyperacusis and (still have) hearing loss. The "new" damaged hearing was unconfortable for years, but after many many monthes T went away and Hyperacusis too.. I also could better hear even the audiogramm
looked the same last 10 years.... so time and the changes in the auditory processing are the biggest changes.

Greets Tom

 

[tomytl]

I still use my LLLT home laser without any positive effect.
But today I had following thoughts:
What have a tooth with a inner ear hair cell common? Both can't regenerate.
Some weeks ago there where news about LLLT with teeth..
http://wyss.harvard.edu/viewpressrelease/155/
So why can't LLLT not help inner ear cells to repair?

 

[Ervan]

Who ever use tinnitool?
http://www.tinnitool.com/en/therapie_moeglichkeiten/
Look like promising treatment..
Any result, please.? Thanks, God bless..