Retigabine (Trobalt, Potiga) — General Discussion

Trying to sum up all the precious info gathered above:
Very informative, although ambiguous in their conclusions... many of them can't be certain of Tinnitus being caused by VC. Not to mention a steady high pitched tone like mine, which is nonpulsatile T. And this is the most troublesome... Quite a few papers I've read though do point out relief in such nonpulsitile tupes of T after mvd surgery. I think more extensive studies had been done by Nowé et al who stated that "nonpulsatile tinnitus may result from a microvascular compression at the cisternal segment of the eighth CN" and showed a "correlation between the clinical presentation of nonpulsatile tinnitus (high and low pitch) and perceptive hearing loss".

These are important findings indeed, backed up by surgical evidence of relief in such patients. If these findings are true and accurate, they may lead to a more specific study for Tinnitus causes even if acoustic trauma is involved. That is why there are those who even having hearing damage from loud noise, they may not experience Tinnitus. And those that have T even if there is no history of acoustic trauma. Perhaps this approach is a more current and a more correct one too. A correlation between acoustic trauma when vascular compression is present should also be attended.

Just out of curiosity: Are there people out there with T and not having some kind of vascular compression of the 8th nerve? Have they checked it? With proper exams (ear MRI)? Looked into by proper doctors who can read such abnormalities?
Agree. In fact if you remember i sayd that NVC and tinnitus is controversal argument in the official literature. Moller and Jannetta (Pittsburh University) was the first to perform this type of surgery (over 1700 cases since 1974)with contrastanting results.
I understand perfectly what do you say!
 
@Viking
You say you have not have your T due to acoustic trauma. Also that vascular compression (of what type exactly) was taken care by surgery, though your T didn't completely disappear. You also say that Trobalt helped you A LOT and unfortunately couldn't continue. Since your T is of vascular confict, is it safe to conclude that Retgabine also helps in such cases? How long have you been on Trobalt? Did you experience immediate relief? Also, is your T high-low pitch continued noise, or typewriter like?

And now a couple of questions for everybody:
I experience variations in my T while walking, like every time I press one foot to the ground there is a zip like sound, a sudden spike in my T. I goes like that with every step I take. Like my shoes are wet or something... Do you people hear something like that?
My T also reaches its TOP when I open my mouth to full extend. I reaches top levels of volume, coming from my right ear alone. Like while the mouth opening enhances gradually the already steady tone I have to full extend!
There are more evidence about the tinnitus is multifactorial symptom... i say in elder post... "i doubt we will have a single pill for the treatment of tinnitus". Do you remember? Now...returning on NVC: when i perform it, i have tryed all before surgery, but not Retigabine. We are talking of 2008 year.
now it could be interisting to know if RTG work even with anatomic problem related to TMJ or NVC blocking substantially the symptom of tinnitus or not. Unfortunally we haven't evidence about it. If in 2008 some doctor make me up retigabine and it has worked probably my head could be "entire".
We cannot know it. Scientist could be help us to understand the mechanism!
 
And you need how many moths have they used it, what is that about 1 months on a drug! , 6 months is minimum, or?

There is almost always a way to improve a data summary (in relation to what you want the data to show). And yes, treatment duration may well be a factor in relation to efficacy/treatment result. But as explained in the ATA petition thread, for the informal trial data, we are just looking to demonstrate basic efficacy. And so for this exercise, it was sufficient to "eyeball" the treatment duration before computing the chart you are referring to.

Even if we had computed and factored in the treatment duration, dosage level, gender, weight, other medication, and so on, it would not increase the strength/validity of the data presented, because this is still an informal study executed in a non-clinical setting.
 
There are more evidence about the tinnitus is multifactorial symptom... i say in elder post... "i doubt we will have a single pill for the treatment of tinnitus". Do you remember?
Ok. But lets just find one that works and we 'll see about the others. Unless a combination of medications is needed, something that could complicate things A LOT!
Now...returning on NVC: when i perform it, i have tryed all before surgery, but not Retigabine. We are talking of 2008 year.
How exactly did you feel after surgery? There was real improvement? Why did you bother with your ears afterwards?

Also, you didn't answer my previous questions about your T: How was it back before and after the surgery? What tones do you have now and what then? Is it steady-continues or pulsatile? High pitched or low? Do you have the "wet shoes" effect? The opening mouth?
 
I strongly believe that what is being experienced on this board is a combination of placebo effect, coincidence, desperation, wishful thinking and mob mentality.
Many people trying Trobalt are actually experiencing real measurable reductions in tinnitus and hyperacusis.
Dannyboy, for example, has turned his life around, whilst others have clearly pointed out new lower levels.
There is solid science behind trobalt to explain why these changes are occurring. The real problem appears to be development of tolerance in some.

Physicians can prescribe medication off-label if it is safe and effective and if it may offer more hope than alternatives. If one of your patients asked to trial it at a low dose for a few days, just to see if it might work,
I think it would be a great kindness to let him/her have it, bearing in mind that there might be a chance of relief.
After all, we do all get prescribed a lot of other medicines which simply don't work at all.
 
Doctors are hesitant to provide drugs that are dangerous or cause many side-effects. It is their responsibility after all. But this doesn't mean that patients should suffer and suffer they do from this condition. This particular drug may have more side-effects than other anticonvulsants out there. The patient should be made aware of them, and perhaps make clear to the doctor that they take fool responsibility for that.

I am certain many doctors will not agree to do this, but prescribing all those pills out there, who can tell what all of those may cause, especially if taken repeatedly and for no good reason? For example, antibiotics are easily prescribed for a common flu, even though it is highly unlikely it will not pass on its own after a few days...
Who is to say that the patient will suffer less from all these drugs out there? You visit a doctor, you will leave with a prescription at hand most of the time.

A small trial of Regitabine could be harmless, it could become a problem when it works as the patient asks for more. But in that case (if it works that is) it may point the way to a cure! And if a time window exists in which a patient have the greatest change of curing himself, it would be a SHAME if that patient looses his chance just because of the classic doctor's cliche: "This is not practicing medicine".

Is it safe for the doctor's job?
-Yes
Is it safe for the patients life?
-Perhaps. And then again, perhaps by not giving that patient his chance of a cure you doom that patient to a life of misery which may equal to no life at all. Thus not doing your job as you should have been doing at the beginning, which is, basically, to CURE a patient from his condition.

Research is all about money nowadays, as most things in concurrent life are. It is totally inappropriate for just a forum community to test such a drug and no trial has yet to be made. It is up to the individual initiative nowadays, more than ever we (all) NEED that. So we (the patients) have no other choice than to endorse such initiative. And we need your (doctors) professional help more than ever.
 
@Christian78 this was the issue that I highlighted a little while back in the following post:


I realize that you have since taken action to rectify the issue by posting a NEW USER FORM (thanks!), but a new extract of data from the database has not been done since the above summary was made. At some point there probably will be a new extract done from the database and you will be included (almost certainly).

The data being provided by everyone in relation to their experience with Trobalt is potentially quite important for our Team Trobalt project. So thanks to all.

attheedgeofscience
20/DEC/2014.

At
UPMC/University of Pittsburgh Schools of the Health Sciences they are testing retigabine for tinnitus...?!?

In the model, sedated mice are exposed in one ear to a 116-decibel sound, about the loudness of an ambulance siren, for 45 minutes, which was shown in previous work to lead to the development of tinnitus in 50 percent of exposed mice. Dr. Tzounopoulos and his team tested whether an FDA-approved epilepsy drug called retigabine, which specifically enhances KCNQ channel activity, could prevent the development of tinnitus. Thirty minutes into the noise exposure and twice daily for the next five days, half of the exposed group was given injections of retigabine.

Seven days after noise exposure, the team determined whether the mice had developed tinnitus by conducting startle experiments, in which a continuous, 70 dB tone is played for a period, then stopped briefly and then resumed before being interrupted with a much louder pulse. Mice with normal hearing perceive the gap in sounds and are aware something had changed, so they are less startled by the loud pulse than mice with tinnitus, which hear phantom noise that masks the moment of silence in between the background tones.
.....

Study Finds a New Treatment for Tinnitus
HOME // STUDY FINDS A NEW TREATMENT FOR TINNITUS
Study Finds a New Treatment for Tinnitus
Tinnitus is a chronic and incurable condition that affects 5-to-15 percent of Americans. Characterized by phantom sounds such as whistling, clicking, or roaring, this disorder can be debilitating in its worst cases.

However, researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine have begun studying a drug often used in the treatment of epilepsy, known as Retigabine, as a possible method of tinnitus prevention. While it would not be a cure for this condition, it would allow users to proactively minimize the damage caused by high decibel sounds.

The study involved exposing sedated mice to damaging sounds levels for an extended period of time. Some mice were given Retigabine, while others were not. The mice that were given the drug during periods of exposure did not later develop tinnitus, while the untreated mice did.

In order to prevent tinnitus, Retigabine would have to be taken preemptively, before the onset of the condition. However, this could be very useful for anyone who works in a loud environment on a regular basis. Those who can anticipate being consistently exposed to harmful decibel levels may soon have an option to consider in the prevention of tinnitus.

To learn more, click here.

- See more at: http://www.earq.com/news/new-treatment-tinnitus#sthash.ftP4RHLf.dpuf
 
Could you give me advice how to fast get of retigabine,,, they advice 150mg a week becouse of epilepsy
I dont have epilepsy, I came on 900 in 7th day... I need to stop faster to have washout some time, and go back... honestly i believe that retigabine revire some things and settle inside brain in 2-3 months and then we lose his effectiveness... he shut down brain so probably we need to circulate with pause...

call this company and see how did they succeed in retigabine...
 
Ok. But lets just find one that works and we 'll see about the others. Unless a combination of medications is needed, something that could complicate things A LOT!

How exactly did you feel after surgery? There was real improvement? Why did you bother with your ears afterwards?

Also, you didn't answer my previous questions about your T: How was it back before and after the surgery? What tones do you have now and what then? Is it steady-continues or pulsatile? High pitched or low? Do you have the "wet shoes" effect? The opening mouth?
OK sorry for my poor previous response but i was from mobile:

before surgery i suffer of bilateral tinnitus and neurosensorial hearing simmetric loss.
Left side (where the surgery was performed) tinnitus was 6000Hz pure tone 40db static + others typewriter tinnitus (miscellaneous of tone like hissing) who came and gone away + hemifacial spasm when the tinnitus was very loud 80db. Right ear tinnitus was not constant and typewriter high pitch 8000hz. Slight problem of balance when rotate the coil. I haven't problem to TMJ articulation...then no problem opening or closing mouth. No click or others.
My diagnosis was complex. On MRI scans, there was evidence of a conflict between the basilar artery (that coming from c1 cervical spine) that impacted the dorsal cochlear nuclei. The hypotheses were these: differently from conflict AICA / PICA, I had a large artery that was going to slam directly on cochlear nuclei most markedly on the left side. So the double tinnitus could be generated from this. ABR confirmed it. The auditory pathways, as well as the visual (optical), are crossed in our brain. Immediately after surgery,performed interposing Spongostan between artery and root entry zone, tinnitus right completely abolished. Tinnitus left decreased to 5 max 15 db in the bad days. For me it was a good result. Another surgery was needed after 2 days because,to reach that area, split open the mastoid. They took therefore the doctors of abdominal fat to repair the loss of spinal fluid that flowed from his nose.
The worsening in 2013 is another story. Pure speculation by stupid italian's doctors
 

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That would be one of the animal studies done on Trobalt (by prof. Thanos Tzounopoulos) in relation to tinnitus suppression/prevention. The study was also reported in the following article about 1½ years ago:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...TINNITUS-reduces-hyperactivity-cells-ear.html
For 10 years Dr. Tzounopoulos makes these statements, never anything concrete!
When i talk with him about cannabinoids role in the management or developing of tinnitus, he sayd that was studiyg...The year was 2007...
Retigabine exist for the hospitals (intravenous form for intractable seizure crisis since 1996 and for out patients from 2000

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/58/2/253.full.pdf
 
OK sorry for my poor previous response but i was from mobile:

before surgery i suffer of bilateral tinnitus and neurosensorial hearing simmetric loss.
Left side (where the surgery was performed) tinnitus was 6000Hz pure tone 40db static + others typewriter tinnitus (miscellaneous of tone like hissing) who came and gone away + hemifacial spasm when the tinnitus was very loud 80db. Right ear tinnitus was not constant and typewriter high pitch 8000hz. Slight problem of balance when rotate the coil. I haven't problem to TMJ articulation...then no problem opening or closing mouth. No click or others.
My diagnosis was complex. On MRI scans, there was evidence of a conflict between the basilar artery (that coming from c1 cervical spine) that impacted the dorsal cochlear nuclei. The hypotheses were these: differently from conflict AICA / PICA, I had a large artery that was going to slam directly on cochlear nuclei most markedly on the left side. So the double tinnitus could be generated from this. ABR confirmed it. The auditory pathways, as well as the visual (optical), are crossed in our brain. Immediately after surgery,performed interposing Spongostan between artery and root entry zone, tinnitus right completely abolished. Tinnitus left decreased to 5 max 15 db in the bad days. For me it was a good result. Another surgery was needed after 2 days because,to reach that area, split open the mastoid. They took therefore the doctors of abdominal fat to repair the loss of spinal fluid that flowed from his nose.
The worsening in 2013 is another story. Pure speculation by stupid italian's doctors
So, after surgery you had no T in your right ear, and your left pure tone of 6000Hz became much less bothersome. What about your typewriter left various sounds? I mean after surgery your only problem was a steady tone at 6000Hz? How do you measure the tone and the loudness (db)? I for example have a loss at 6000hz in 20db according to my audiogram, but listening to samples I put my T at 16.000Hz...
 
So, after surgery you had no T in your right ear, and your left pure tone of 6000Hz became much less bothersome. What about your typewriter left various sounds? I mean after surgery your only problem was a steady tone at 6000Hz? How do you measure the tone and the loudness (db)? I for example have a loss at 6000hz in 20db according to my audiogram, but listening to samples I put my T at 16.000Hz...
Yes, tipewriter tinnitus was completely abolished in both ears with residuale of pure tone 4000hz in left side average 5 to 15 db. Improving of hearing also occurred of 20db.
If you want "find" at home your tinnitus, download the free software AUDACITY. Go on the mai bar and click on CREATE TONE and set the frequency. Measure it with the volume mixer and obtain the data who you want!
 
I see... So basically everything was better after your surgery, even the pure tone. You even gained some hearing back! Did your pre-surgery and post-surgery audiograms differ a lot?
It was quite an outcome, close to perfection...

So, mvd surgery helps with both typewriter AND constant tones! Like mine that is...
 
@skoupidis and @Viking ... Hey sorry to be the "growler at the door" here, but can you please, please, please, try and keep this thread Retigabine specific. I am trying to keep up with just this thread at least, let alone a whole lot of other stuff and it's exhausting when it goes all over the map. A number of your points and questions are of course valid and T related, but could be better in a new thread. Thanks!

Example... @amandine wanted me to post some data on Keppra versus Retigabine info in here a day or so ago, and it is already lost in history many pages back!... And yes, even though it to me is very directly linked to our Retigabine thinking, and indeed this is our main thread for general Kv channels input (if not directly related to Kv3 - Autifony - AUT00063) I am going to not put it in here as it will clutter up the Retigabine 'purity' of this thread.

As a teaser though Amandine (and others who wanted to know)...In the full paragraph, initial general description of Keppra, this is the only thing I understood = the red section of this one small extract below:

LEV (30 µM) shifted the steady-state activation of IK(DR) to a more positive potential by 10 mV, without shifting the steady-state inactivation of IK(DR). Neither Na+, nor erg (ether-a-go-go-related)-mediated K+ and ATP-sensitive K+ currents were affected by LEV (100 µM).

At age 19, back in the late 1960's, I was mesmerized by pulsating, lithe, long-legged blonde young women, expending vast amounts of energy dancing with enviable dynamism on pedestals mounted about 6 feet off the floor. They were "du jour" at the few parties I managed to crash in Kensington, or the odd London club (where volume levels of '25' on a scale of 1 to 10 had not been invented yet - plus my T was not sound reactive then anyhow). Their name was very appropriately as some of you oldies may recall; GO-GO Dancers...and boy did they "GO!"

So, needless to say these "Go-Go erg dancing Potassium channels" were not affected by LEV/Keppra. Maybe Keppra does not like blondes??? Man...it's not gonna work in Sweden!

Hope that helps Amandine. Are you blonde by any chance???

Ummmmmmm....maybe I should ask for help on the Keppra and K+ channels aspect. But do check out the Keppra thread later in weekend for those interested in the non night-club aspects...etc.

Best, Zimichael
 
@skoupidis and @Viking ... Hey sorry to be the "growler at the door" here, but can you please, please, please, try and keep this thread Retigabine specific. I am trying to keep up with just this thread at least, let alone a whole lot of other stuff and it's exhausting when it goes all over the map. A number of your points and questions are of course valid and T related, but could be better in a new thread. Thanks!
Sure thing bro! I thought of taking to pm's but considering Viking's past I felt everyone here wanted to listen to what he has to say. He is a past and probably future member of the regitabine treatment and any history of the participants should not be kept from here, especially a mvd surgery one, and successful I might add.
 
quick update:

i wake up to low t for the past 2 week, no spikes at all. i wouldn't say i have near silence all the time, most of the time it is just very low t that is still more bearable if i have pink noise. this feels like a layer of improvement on top of the original improvement i had at 900mg TID. in fact, i have felt something like incremental improvement while i've been on 1200mg TID (been on it for almost a month). i will be on it for another 2 weeks before i start the taper down. part of me want to continue this 1200mg TID for as long as it takes to completely kill the t (it feels as though this is the direction the therapy is going). but i want to be cautious, and though i am tolerating the drug well side effect wise, i am still a bit cognitively impaired, and have been so almost continuously since i went up to 900mg TID, so i want to get my 'brain' back, even if i am not completely finished with killing my t. i am also planning a second attempt in the summer if all goes well, so there is that.

i went to the opthamologist 2 days ago, i wanted to check the pigmentation issues if there were any. i went on the zeiss machine, it took computerized images of my macula (high tech stuff) and found no pigmentation. at some point i will upload copies of this scan (left eye, right eye, and from before and after drug trial, so 4 papers), but i don't have a scanner. no pigmentation issues were found. since the machine only scans the macula, the doctor did a complete scan of my entire retina using some bright light and his own observation, and he did not find any pigmentation issues. i will be going back for a third visit in february, after i have been off the drug for a month.
 
quick update:

i will be going back for a third visit in february, after i have been off the drug for a month.

that is from now few days december, january , few days february, in those you will be free from meds 30 days, that means you have like 2 weeks to tapper down????

so tell me in next 50 days, when you deduc 30 how fast will you tapper down?
 
i wake up to low t for the past 2 week, no spikes at all. i wouldn't say i have near silence all the time, most of the time it is just very low t that is still more bearable if i have pink noise. this feels like a layer of improvement on top of the original improvement i had at 900mg TID. in fact, i have felt something like incremental improvement while i've been on 1200mg TID (been on it for almost a month). i will be on it for another 2 weeks before i start the taper down. part of me want to continue this 1200mg TID for as long as it takes to completely kill the t (it feels as though this is the direction the therapy is going). but i want to be cautious, and though i am tolerating the drug well side effect wise, i am still a bit cognitively impaired, and have been so almost continuously since i went up to 900mg TID, so i want to get my 'brain' back, even if i am not completely finished with killing my t. i am also planning a second attempt in the summer if all goes well, so there is that.

Thanks for the update. A potent dosage, for sure.

Consider doing a PROGRESS REPORT if you could. I checked your last one and it seems to be already a month ago (23rd Nov) unless I missed something. Your testimony is potentially quite important (= first person doing 1200mg/day + your etiology). Thanks.

Good luck with the rest of the "therapy". And for what it is worth, I agree that taking "a break" is perhaps not a bad idea.
 
I feel very safe in saying that everybody on this board really wants Regitabine to be pharmacologically effective against tinnitus, but in all their enthusiasm I wonder why nobody has to date brought up the truly compelling evidence against such efficacy.

Dr. Stephen Nagler
 
I wonder why nobody has to date brought up the truly compelling evidence against such efficacy.

indeed. i have seen written on this board a lot of words of 'skepticism' regarding this drug, from you as well, but it is never backed up by any evidence. there is never any reference to any scientific articles, just some vague 'skepticism'. i try to understand the rational of such ill-informed skepticism, i suppose it is different in each individual case. it is possible to be both skeptical and optimistic, i feel that some on this board can't see that possibility.

i and others have detailed some compelling evidence for the efficacy of this drug, and i think the trialees are doing a good job of helping us all figure out if it actually has any efficacy. i am open to any evidence against its efficacy, especially if it were to reference some scientific article. i have not seen any on this thread.
 
Hope this helps.

Yes, thanks @attheedgeofscience, I know it is not a truly accurate assertion of this drugs efficiency but with a double blind placebo trial and with a 40% drug efficiency like this it would be enough for it to move ahead into phase 11 trials at the very least!
Which was the very reason for the comment to @Dr. Nagler.

@inadmin said...."So try ignoring that maybe putting emotions aside, because i am interested in hearing your opinion."

I hope that @Dr. Nagler does not ignore my comment, or comments like it they were made with no malice and were done to provoke healthy debate.
He made, what I thought was a pretty closed minded comment, even though the evidence is there staring everyone in the face about this drug, I called him on it, he responded, that's debate, I hope we can all be mature about it.

Regards Rich
 
This is a very good point. As mentioned in one of these trobalt threads I had masking tested before and after trobalt. Masking level had not changed - much to my surprise. It was identical. It's a study of one, but only my perception of the loudness has changed on ret.
That's a bad news, really bad news
I would like to see some trialees who have reported drastic change in T level (some even reported hearing silence or near silence) doing the same test
plus there are more negative outcome progress reports recently, my heart sinks to the bottom of the sea
 
The only way Dr Nagler, or indeed anyone with tinnitus, is to be convinced that Retigabine does something to improve their tinnitus, is to take the drug for a few weeks and see for themselves. In the absence of results from a clinical trial , the debate whether it has any efficacy or not will go on forever. We are are all relying on anecdotal evidence being presented by users of this forum, which appears to show it has some effect. I have not seen anything before on the internet where many individuals have had positive outcomes with the same drug, albeit, in some cases, a limited one.

The side effect profile of Retigabine is not encouraging, and long term use is probably not advisable at this stage.

Having had tinnitus for nearly 30 years and tried everything from ginkgo, zinc, B12, Campral etc etc I realise the skepticism surrounding "cures", but Retigabine and similar drugs in the future, like AUT00063, may be something to give us all some real hope.
 
i and others have detailed some compelling evidence for the efficacy of this drug, and i think the trialees are doing a good job of helping us all figure out if it actually has any efficacy. i am open to any evidence against its efficacy, especially if it were to reference some scientific article. i have not seen any on this thread.

Fair enough.

Let's first look at the "evidence" in favor of Retigabine's purported pharmacological efficacy against tinnitus generated on this board. We have a cadre of individuals who are truly suffering from tinnitus and are seeking relief. So these folks manage to find a source for Retigabine (no easy task in many cases) and take the drug specifically in the hopes that they will at long last achieve an appreciable degree of relief. And a fair percentage do report improvement in their tinnitus rating, which basically is their own subjective measure of their own subjective symptom. Please bear in mind that this is an improvement they were specifically looking for and hoping to achieve. There is no randomization. There are no controls. Now we all know that tinnitus is a subjective condition and as such cannot be directly measured, but even so we do not even have a reliable set of before and after tinnitus pitch and loudness matches. What we have is totally subjective data regarding a totally subjective condition, data generated from a group of very highly motivated individuals looking for (and hoping for) any suggestion of improvement. In another post I referred to it as quite likely the result of a combination of placebo effect, coincidence, desperation, wishful thinking, and mob mentality. Nevertheless, many here refer to the above circumstance as evidence. Is it evidence? It might be, but for now I choose to look at it as data points and nothing more. Especially in view of the compelling evidence against efficacy that I am about to describe.

OK. Let's for now take Retigabine completely out of the equation. Just for now. Instead, let's talk about herpes.

Approximately 20% of the population of the US has tinnitus, but the vast majority of those are for one reason or another not significantly affected by it. Maybe because it's not loud. Maybe because it occurs only sporadically. Maybe because they have fantastic coping skills. Maybe because they have habituated it. Whatever. Still and all they'd rather not have it. I know I would! But 20% of the 20% (i.e., approximately 4% of the population of the US) have severe tinnitus. And for whatever reason their lives are markedly disrupted by it. They truly suffer in every sense of the word. Maybe because it is so loud. Maybe because it is so relentless. Maybe because ... well, why am I telling you? This board is absolutely loaded with people who have severe tinnitus. This board is loaded with people who suffer. This board is loaded with people whose lives to a greater or lesser degree revolve around their tinnitus. The composition of this board is reflective of what that 4% of the US population experiences every day of their lives. And if one day - for whatever reason - your tinnitus improved by 50%, you would recognize that blessed state of affairs immediately. Right?

Acyclovir (Zovirax) is a commonly prescribed anti-herpes medication with absolutely no known pharmacological activity against tinnitus. Millions of people have been prescribed Zovirax for cold sores, genital herpes, shingles, and chickenpox. Many take it chronically to decrease the frequency of recurrent herpes outbreaks. Of course 4% of individuals on Zovirax have severe intrusive tinnitus, and another 16% have tinnitus that is not particularly severe - just like in the general population. Now if my own doctor put me on Zovirax for herpes and within a week or two my tinnitus (which has been screaming now for more than 20 years) settled down to an appreciable degree, I would be on the phone with him thanking him not for what the medication did for my herpes, but rather for the totally unexpected effect it apparently had on my tinnitus. And so would anybody else in my shoes. If any of the 4% ... hell, if most anybody in the entire 20%, actually found meaningful tinnitus relief from a herpes pill, the prescribing doctor would get a call from the appreciative patient the very next day. Not only that, if only 50% of tinnitus sufferers found appreciable unexpected tinnitus relief while on Zovirax, word would get around pretty quickly in the medical community that finally we have a pill that truly shows promise against tinnitus. There would be case report after case report. We wouldn't have to beg our internists, family doctors, and ENTs for off-label prescriptions of Zovirax ... because they would be expecting our calls and would willingly prescribe it. The stock of the company that manufacturers the drug would soar. And the whole story would of course be all over the Internet.

The operative word in the above paragraph is unexpected.

Back to Retigabine ...

Some three million Americans have epilepsy, most of whom are on medication and a goodly number of whom since 2011 have been on Retigabine, if only as a trial. So where are all the case reports of unexpected tinnitus relief from those epileptics on Retigabine who happen also to have tinnitus - severe or otherwise? Sure, we have the hardly unbiased Tinnitus Talk data from those who took the drug specifically looking for relief - but where are the hundreds of case reports we should have by now from those epileptics on Retigabine who also suffer from tinnitus and who finally found their long-sought-after tinnitus relief unexpectedly while on the drug. I do not know of hundreds of cases. I do not know of dozens of cases. Indeed I do not know of even one. And that is what I consider to be convincing evidence at this point in time - the lack of phone calls to prescribing physicians from those who unexpectedly found relief and the lack of the case reports that those phone calls would surely generate.

Now let me make it clear where I stand on the issue of off-label prescribing of Retigabine. Even though I feel strongly that ultimately a properly done study will fail to show pharmacological efficacy (just like with Campral and all the other supposed silver bullets), I would have trouble saying no to a patient of mine who asked for it - if for no other reason that I personally know what it is like to be in the bottom of that snake-infested pit where many tinnitus sufferers dwell day in and day out. Some physicians may not understand tinnitus suffering - perhaps most do not understand tinnitus suffering - but I surely do.

There are, however, mitigating factors in my situation. First of all, I see only 40 patients a year and do not prescribe any medications for any reason whatsoever. If I did, I would have to take call (which at the age of 66 is no longer on my radar), and my malpractice insurance rates (which are predicated on my not prescribing any medications) would more than double.

The original question from @john2012 had to do with whether or not I would be willing to prescribe Retigabine off-label to a patient of mine who asked for it. In view of what I wrote in the above paragraph, I would be willing to discuss it in detail with my patient's own primary care physician and (in spite of my opinion that any "effect" is not pharmacological) argue in favor of it purely on a compassionate basis, but I would not prescribe it myself.

Dr. Stephen Nagler
 
but where are the hundreds of case reports we should have by now from those epileptics on Retigabine who also suffer from tinnitus and who finally found their long-sought-after tinnitus relief unexpectedly while on the drug. I do not know of hundreds of cases. I do not know of dozens of cases. Indeed I do not know of even one. And that is what I consider to be convincing evidence at this point in time - the lack of phone calls to prescribing physicians from those who unexpectedly found relief and the lack of the case reports that those phone calls would surely generate.
I suppose the FDA is only interested in the negative side-effects of a drug, so why would there be even 1 case report for a positive side effect...
WARNING: THIS DRUG MAY CURE YOUR TINNITUS!
GSK isn't marketing this drug for tinnitus, so why would they bother to let you know it can relieve tinnitus. GSK realizes that this drug is offered as a last resort epilepsy drug, so why would it risk lawsuits for its off-label use?
GSK is aware of this potential to treat tinnitus, that's why it invested 20% in Autifony, and unsurprisingly AUT-063 was a GSK proprietary molecule.
Do the math !
 
I suppose the FDA is only interested in the negative side-effects of a drug, so why would there be even 1 case report for a positive side effect...
WARNING: THIS DRUG MAY CURE YOUR TINNITUS!
GSK isn't marketing this drug for tinnitus, so why would they bother to let you know it can relieve tinnitus. GSK realizes that this drug is offered as a last resort epilepsy drug, so why would it risk lawsuits for its off-label use?

This has nothing to do with GSK. It has nothing to do with the FDA. It has nothing to do with lawsuits. It has to do with the fact that individuals on Retigabine specifically for epilepsy who also happen to have tinnitus do not experience unexpected improvement in their tinnitus - or they would tell their doctors, who would be almost as thrilled about it as they are!

Dr. Stephen Nagler
 

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