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Retigabine (Trobalt, Potiga) — General Discussion

@Zimichael The door analogy is too simple. Your potassium channels are not electric doors with a binary on/off condition. They are analog magnetic doors that open at a certain voltage threshold. Retigabine lowers that threshold so they tend to open more often. They haven't been jammed shut the whole time you've had tinnitus, they've just had a higher threshold, so open less often than they should.

And retigabine doesn't need to affect Kv3 channels to affect tinnitus. Kv7.4, aka KCNQ4, is important in the cochlea and auditory system All these channels work together in the neuron. We don't know exactly why Autifony has targeted Kv3.1. Modulating Kv3.1 may be a faster and more efficient way of stabilizing the resting potential, or it may simply be that Kv7 channels are harder to isolate.

Going with a one-time big dose is a terrible, possible fatal idea. The brain needs time to adjust, not just to the side effects but to the intended effects of the drug. Your brain is already regulating the activity of your KCNQ channels. If you attack those channels with a mega-dose, it could induce seizures or who knows what else. Remember that of the "Gang of Four", KCNQ4 is the only one we want to regulate, but retigabine doesn't let us that precision. It will affect KCNQ2, 3, and 5 just as powerfully. KCNQ2 and 3 regulate general excitability in the brain, and KCNQ5 is expressed both inside the brain and in skeletal muscle - possibly why retigabine induces gait changes.

Remember that retigabine is only viable at all because it doesn't stimulate Kv7.1. If it did, it would affect your heart, and not in a good way.

AUT00063 is (theoretically) safer at high doses because it (theoretically) only affects the single voltage-gated potassium channel, which (theoretically) is only expressed in the auditory system. That's why you can kick the doors down with an 800mg dose, evidently on day one. Retigabine is a maverick. It kicks too many doors, and some of them are booby trapped. I see why Beryu cautioned us against comparing them.

You have a good plan, I think. Don't let a few setbacks shake you.
 
@Hudson ...Sorry if that was not clear. Yes tinnitus today is sticking at my "normal", crapsville, level "9" volume that I call "baseline". Well more accurately = "current baseline" since 2012. What happened on Monday (all day) and for a while Tuesday afternoon, was louder than that...so a sort of 9.2 or so.
Short story (truly!) is that the new > in Potiga dose has not > T volume, or seemingly H sensitivity today. I have no clear idea why any more, but it is a GOOD THING!

@rtwombly ...Hey! Fantastic response there in last post! Just what I wanted (truly!) to get my ponderings shot up and torn apart. You did a great job and I agree with what you say, though my crash course in neurology does not allow me to comment with any authority on "anlog magentic voltage" v. the 110 volt wiring I do around the house. :) I haven't even had a chance to review my own notes on it all yet, and for sure know I am playing loose with concepts. However, they help me at least fumble forward. And I hope you are right about Kv doors being 'used less' rather than 'jammed shut', though in the end the proof is always in the pudding...and the Autifony dessert is not looking super edible at the moment. What do they want, "Saint Tinnitus" androids or real live people with T?!

Anyway...Yeah, just found this in one of the references I have on file c/o: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2009.00111.x/full

2014-09-24_1243.png


Indeed the Aussie document got the "heart aspect" (Kv7.1) of Retig. wrong, though timing wise, this above is from 2009 and Aus. doc is 2013. Weird!...And I see where you are zeroing in on Kv7.4 re hearing aspects. (Which Flupirtine hits too by the way!)...Seems like there are some differences out there re what is hitting what, depending on source.

Bottom line though, is I fully agree (and hope I made that clear) that doing a "smash dose" of Retigabine is a high risk venture for sure, as there are all those other targets to hit. I'm sure not doing it! Though still feel we are going at Retig. with an epilepsy model v. a tinnitus model...but to do otherwise is kinda nuts. So we have to wait for AUT00063 and the restrictive dog-and-pony show they have put up to be lifted. Which probably means "consumer approval" before someone like me can get near it....Sigh!

Lastly, you might like this reference. It is useful for seeing the whole Potassium Channels layout...
http://www.genenames.org/genefamilies/KCN

"Autifony" (unless hitting just one/some of these???) Kv3 (KCNC) has four sub-units = Kv3.1 - Kv3.4
Flupirtine apparently hits two of the five Kv7 (KCNQ) channels = Kv7.4 & Kv7.5
Retigabine apparently hits four of the five Kv7 (KCNQ) channels = Kv7.2 - Kv7.5

...which makes me wonder why we have not been taking a harder look at Flupirtine??? ATEOS gave it just a two week spin, but it's been in use a lot longer than Retigabine and has a much, much safer side effect profile from what I recall. Am I missing something here?????????????????

Again, thanks for the great feedback. And yes, am sticking to my program for now, it just got speeded up a bit! And no I am not going to hit the field with GABA (a Benzo) though I still think it is an "interesting idea" if the choice is to do that, or zero.

And any news from @Hengist??? (Plus see Christian found the Users Progress Form place...Good!).

Best, Zimichael
 
"Autifony" (unless hitting just one/some of these???) Kv3 (KCNC) has four sub-units = Kv3.1 - Kv3.4
Flupirtine apparently hits two of the five Kv7 (KCNQ) channels = Kv7.4 & Kv7.5
Retigabine apparently hits four of the five Kv7 (KCNQ) channels = Kv7.2 - Kv7.5

...which makes me wonder why we have not been taking a harder look at Flupirtine??? ATEOS gave it just a two week spin, but it's been in use a lot longer than Retigabine and has a much, much safer side effect profile from what I recall. Am I missing something here?????????????????
I'm with you completely. In fact, according to http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/74/5/1171.full:

Flupirtine [ethyl-N-[2-amino-6-(4-fluorophenylmethylamino)pyridin-3-yl] carbamic acid] and retigabine [D-23129, N-(2-amino-4-(4-fluorobenzylamino)-phenyl) carbamic acid ethyl ester] are commonly used activators of the Kv7 channels. They activate all of the subtypes except for Kv7.1, which lacks a transmembrane tryptophan residue that is believed to be essential for the actions of these drugs

Maybe it is worth another look.
 
There is already a Flupirtine thread here in "Treatments".
 
@Christian78 Does your latest report mean that you have reduced your other meds to just the sleeping pill?

Because this is on my mind, do you mask at night, Christian? You seem to have problems sleeping and I wondered that was in spite of masking. Just bought a masker for myself today. My chiropractor has one and I get the best rest waiting for her in the adjustment room.

I use one ventilator. I used more masking before. Last two night t was more bothersome like 50% before sleep and night/morning. I use 300mgx3. I have reduce my meds on half. Trobalt make you also sleepy. My Trobalt fluctuate it goes up and then down. I donk know it is as it for now. Sometimes get to terrible sometimes to almost not hearable. We see 16 sept i started using 300 mg.
 
Both me and @Zimichael had worsening, I am still in acute stage and he is in really long chronic so the only thing that is same for me and him is taking 50mg while others started with 100mg and I have read that 50mg are made in different place than others.

It is possible that one of the channels which retigabine is affecting makes tinnitus louder and us two are sensitive to that.
 
Both me and @Zimichael had worsening, I am still in acute stage and he is in really long chronic so the only thing that is same for me and him is taking 50mg while others started with 100mg and I have read that 50mg are made in different place than others.

It is possible that one of the channels which retigabine is affecting makes tinnitus louder and us two are sensitive to that.

Hengist...My pills are 100 mg, blister pack from GSK in UK. I was cutting the pills (am good at it) and immediately sealing within "one little second" the cut half with food wrap film...to create my own "film-coated tablet". The other half went straight down the hatch. Sorry, that means I swallowed it instantly after film-wrapping that remaining half.
However, that issue is now a non issue, as am taking full 100 mg pills TID = 3 x a day, at 8 hour intervals.

Tinnitus volume and hyperacusis sensitivity have been back at 'normal baseline level' (a "9" in the User's From) as of Tuesday evening...Yeah the volume came down on the ringing before I took the first 100 mg pill Tuesday night (9:00 pm) when still in the "What the hell do I do now???!!!" mode.
As you know if you have been able to follow this see-saw ride, I had (counter-intuitively) decided to go up in dose instead of down...So far so good. However, this is very much a day by day thing.
Ummm.....and don't even ask what that means in terms of plasma load levels being persnickety (fussy). I have no flipping clue any more.

Hengist, I am presuming you have stopped taking Trobalt correct???

Best, Zimichael
 
Hengist...My pills are 100 mg, blister pack from GSK in UK. I was cutting the pills (am good at it) and immediately sealing within "one little second" the cut half with food wrap film...to create my own "film-coated tablet". The other half went straight down the hatch. Sorry, that means I swallowed it instantly after film-wrapping that remaining half.
However, that issue is now a non issue, as am taking full 100 mg pills TID = 3 x a day, at 8 hour intervals.

Tinnitus volume and hyperacusis sensitivity have been back at 'normal baseline level' (a "9" in the User's From) as of Tuesday evening...Yeah the volume came down on the ringing before I took the first 100 mg pill Tuesday night (9:00 pm) when still in the "What the hell do I do now???!!!" mode.
As you know if you have been able to follow this see-saw ride, I had (counter-intuitively) decided to go up in dose instead of down...So far so good. However, this is very much a day by day thing.
Ummm.....and don't even ask what that means in terms of plasma load levels being persnickety (fussy). I have no flipping clue any more.

Hengist, I am presuming you have stopped taking Trobalt correct???

Best, Zimichael

My posts are short so I do not know how did you not see that I told about me stopping to take it.
 
I use one ventilator. I used more masking before. Last two night t was more bothersome like 50% before sleep and night/morning. I use 300mgx3. I have reduce my meds on half. Trobalt make you also sleepy. My Trobalt fluctuate it goes up and then down. I donk know it is as it for now. Sometimes get to terrible sometimes to almost not hearable. We see 16 sept i started using 300 mg.
Would you say your side effects are fairly stable at this point? You have tiredness, forgetfulness, but it is not worse than at your previous dosage?

Before you were taking Trobalt at all (I know it's been awhile) did your tinnitus fluctuate, or would you say this is an improvement?

Sorry for so many questions, just want to have my facts straight.
 
My posts are short so I do not know how did you not see that I told about me stopping to take it.

Last time I checked I was still human and thus subject to error :). You may recall I also said I was going to be too busy for a week to keep updated. I missed a lot and my catch-up time immediately got interrupted by my own "T increase".
However, my posts are so long I don't blame anyone for tuning out!

I'm clear now though...However, are you "done" with the Trobalt or are you going to consider trying again at a higher dose say? (Like 100 mg TID = 3 x a day).

Zimichael
 
Last time I checked I was still human and thus subject to error :). You may recall I also said I was going to be too busy for a week to keep updated. I missed a lot and my catch-up time immediately got interrupted by my own "T increase".
However, my posts are so long I don't blame anyone for tuning out!

I'm clear now though...However, are you "done" with the Trobalt or are you going to consider trying again at a higher dose say? (Like 100 mg TID = 3 x a day).

Zimichael

I am not sure because I thought that my issue was with the 50mg being a bad sort or corrupted as everyone else except me and now you have had positive experiences. It is weird that me and you do not have a no-effect case but direct worsening.
 
Hi All -

There are now more than 1750 posts in this thread. Would it be possible for somebody who has been following it to summarize in two or three sentences where things stand in terms of the drug and the discussion about it.

Thanks so much.

stephen nagler
 
Yes, here it is: a few users tried it so far, one had great results, 2 had worsening and other 5-6 had significant improvements, the sideeffects were mostly bearable except for the 2 who got worsening of tinnitus. So far the effect of retigabine is quite random so the discussion is about how and why is it having such an effect but since benryu is not here we laymen can only guess.
 
Yes, here it is: a few users tried it so far, one had great results, 2 had worsening and other 5-6 had significant improvements, the sideeffects were mostly bearable except for the 2 who got worsening of tinnitus. So far the effect of retigabine is quite random so the discussion is about how and why is it having such an effect but since benryu is not here we laymen can only guess.
Both you and Zimichael had previous bad experiences with medication, so that could be a factor.
 
Yes, here it is: a few users tried it so far, one had great results, 2 had worsening and other 5-6 had significant improvements, the sideeffects were mostly bearable except for the 2 who got worsening of tinnitus. So far the effect of retigabine is quite random so the discussion is about how and why is it having such an effect but since benryu is not here we laymen can only guess.

Thank you, @Hengist. I appreciate the information.

stephen nagler
 
Yes, here it is: a few users tried it so far, one had great results, 2 had worsening and other 5-6 had significant improvements, the sideeffects were mostly bearable except for the 2 who got worsening of tinnitus. So far the effect of retigabine is quite random so the discussion is about how and why is it having such an effect but since benryu is not here we laymen can only guess.

I think we can only draw conclusions after at least a few months on the drug, certainly at least until a decent dosage had been reached. From what I understand you and @Zimichael are still early in the dosage schedule. I am hopeful that conditions will improve in due course.
 
@Dr. Nagler
It would be most interesting if you and maybe some of your other associates would chime in on this thread. I understand a Doctor would never want to make suggestions on a forum about how to use or take any medication but maybe provide some insight on what the drug does do and how it's suppose to interact with the brain and body.
 
@Dr. Nagler
It would be most interesting if you and maybe some of your other associates would chime in on this thread. I understand a Doctor would never want to make suggestions on a forum about how to use or take any medication but maybe provide some insight on what the drug does do and how it's suppose to interact with the brain and body.
Jay, check the On Retigabine... thread linked in Similar Threads.
 
@Dr. Nagler
It would be most interesting if you and maybe some of your other associates would chime in on this thread. I understand a Doctor would never want to make suggestions on a forum about how to use or take any medication but maybe provide some insight on what the drug does do and how it's suppose to interact with the brain and body.

Jay, when I post on this board, it is in the hopes that my words will have practical value.

I have decided not to have an opinion on Retigabine because in the final analysis Retigabine either will be found to have true pharmacological efficacy against tinnitus or will be found to be no more effective than placebo ... and my opinion either way will not alter that reality in the slightest.

Dr. Stephen Nagler
 
Hi all, I have been talking to one of my doctors (a pain specialist with a specific interest in tinnitus) about Retigabine and AUT00063. I wrote a small document for him in dutch, but I have translated it into english. Maybe it is of use to someone, or maybe someone with more knowledge about this matter can improve on it as it's bound to have errors. It is located on Google Docs. If someone wants edit rights to it, let me know and I'll share it with you.

http://shor.ter.net/J3

(full disclosure, I am not currently requesting my doctor to prescribe me Retigabine as we are still trying other options. Specifically, he performed a temporary superior cervical ganglion block in my neck, which impressively lowered my tinnitus). I may try a more permanent treatment in this direction. I wrote this document because he was not aware of this line of research yet)
 
Hi all, I have been talking to one of my doctors (a pain specialist with a specific interest in tinnitus) about Retigabine and AUT00063. I wrote a small document for him in dutch, but I have translated it into english. Maybe it is of use to someone, or maybe someone with more knowledge about this matter can improve on it as it's bound to have errors. It is located on Google Docs. If someone wants edit rights to it, let me know and I'll share it with you.

http://shor.ter.net/J3

(full disclosure, I am not currently requesting my doctor to prescribe me Retigabine as we are still trying other options. Specifically, he performed a temporary superior cervical ganglion block in my neck, which impressively lowered my tinnitus). I may try a more permanent treatment in this direction. I wrote this document because he was not aware of this line of research yet)

Cor...really nice summary. Good job!

However I have wanted to do a post on some "differences of opinion" on a number of Retig. and Kv channels aspects, but have not got to it yet. In short, it depends on the source! (Will try and write this up this later today or tomorrow).

One example, as you bring it up specifically in your piece, is the "heart" thing. This has been mentioned before on the thread too...
OK, there seems to be agreement that Retigabine is hitting hitting Kv7.2 to Kvy.5 and thus avoiding "heart stuff" as it is not hitting Kv7.1.
However, on the new, obviously revised, Trobalt "Package leaflet Information" that came in my box [2014, as it is not the same as the online version from 2012], number two on the list of things to watch out for on page one after a generalized paragraph, is: "Heart Conditions"...
"Trobalt can affect heart rhythm. This is more likely to affect you: ~ If you are taking other meds./Have an existing heart problem/Low potassium or magnesium in your blood/Over 65."
Also, you may recall that in the 2013 Australian application document (the go to source for a lot of stuff on Retig. - but with a few gaping holes!), they go on about "heart stuff" there too.

Now I am not saying I know the answer here. I am just pointing out that there are some "mixed messages" in the literature. Plus I see no reason why GSK would be printing this particular side effect example if they thought there was zero foundation behind it.

Just saying... Best, Zimichael
 
@Zimichael I am aware of these mixed messages. The sole reason I mentioned this in my text was that this doctor looked up retigabine to see if he could prescribe it the first time I mentioned it, and he immediately turned towards the hearth issue. I realise my text suggests that there are no heart issues, but I want this specific doctor to see that since retigabine does not target 7.1, it does not fall under that specific danger. The heart problems seem to affect people that already have heart rhythm issues, something you're probably aware of if you have them.

I would love to know more about these heart related problems as my doctor seemed to be most worried about that aspect.
 
Hi all, I have been talking to one of my doctors (a pain specialist with a specific interest in tinnitus) about Retigabine and AUT00063. I wrote a small document for him in dutch, but I have translated it into english. Maybe it is of use to someone, or maybe someone with more knowledge about this matter can improve on it as it's bound to have errors. It is located on Google Docs. If someone wants edit rights to it, let me know and I'll share it with you.

http://shor.ter.net/J3

(full disclosure, I am not currently requesting my doctor to prescribe me Retigabine as we are still trying other options. Specifically, he performed a temporary superior cervical ganglion block in my neck, which impressively lowered my tinnitus). I may try a more permanent treatment in this direction. I wrote this document because he was not aware of this line of research yet)
@Cor can you please explain what the ganglion block procedure in your neck entails?
 
Would you say your side effects are fairly stable at this point? You have tiredness, forgetfulness, but it is not worse than at your previous dosage?

Before you were taking Trobalt at all (I know it's been awhile) did your tinnitus fluctuate, or would you say this is an improvement?

Sorry for so many questions, just want to have my facts straight.

They are worse and i get feeling that are going worse. I lost 2 thing, hand cream and cup that i use, i probably threw them in garbage. Or ghost took them. It is hard to remember 5 digits. I have all OK but amnesia is killing me, all other i survive, blurred view, orange urine sometimes, drunk walking, problem to write after taking pill for 1 h, sometimes lighter for 4 h, I would rather take pills every 4, not 8 so i dont get strong hits.
 

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