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Retigabine (Trobalt, Potiga) — General Discussion

NOW: I must admit that retigabine took me possibility to remember, but it is getting better. Bur retigabine gave me my life back, i can go out, gym, watch movies, go to city, socialize , love, ride bicycle, SLEEP with sleep white noise that i need and have used last 20 years ( i wake up easily and my ex white noise was too loud i made it so little now like 15 years ago). I have to say bad thing is when side effect stay like 2-3h (bit groggy), but I wake up with screeching sound now and i say ok, what a nice day out, lets take dosage or retigabine, and have a shower, and i got cosmetics because now I CARE ABOUT MY LOOK, have nice shower, then maybe I should go gym 1h, then i can make some nice meal, or go to city a bit, visit a friend, take a tea, well then the evening comes, i CANT RESIST not to go out, at least to by 4 apples. I lost 11 kg from 27th august.

Before: I dont care did i shower, important is i don't stink, i don't care how my hair look like, give me just some sport trousers that i have and wash one take other, don't talk to me, i talk not to you, i can not imagine to step out a door, just dont force me please to go out, there are some cousin came by (oh shit i have to go say hello! :(( ) Just please let me take some benzo. I wake , uh one more day, why i did not die, i wanna kill my sell, one more horrible day of this hell of life, i take clothing on myself, i need to survive to 12:00 oh, I MUST EAT :(( why, i move around i try and then it is 12, now survive to 18, uh, try to play online game, but if i play too much i get stressed t go up, don't eat hard food, be careful not to yawn because t goes up, be careful of cling by dishes or anything, never put a head on arm because it presses head and t goes up, uh it is 14, at 16 there are new on tv, takes me 30 minutes, it is 17, lets eat something sweet takes pleasure over tinnitus, get 15 kg in 2,5 months of severe t torture that i got in may, then there is 18, oh i survive, lets eat something, ant news go, and so on , tv show, there is 21:30, time to take old antihistamine, take benzo, take antidepressant and sleeping pill, turn on 2 noise devices and sleep. Now there will be sleep only nice time in day (now sleeping is nice but not something i LIKE . i like daytime!

Do you notice difference???
Hmm, I can use this to show my doctor for a Retigabine prescription!!! Great story Christian.
Your "before" scenario is like words out of my mouth and I'm sure some others here.
 
I dont want to be negative but i worry about the long term affects. So far it seems that if you taper off the T comes back. But I'm not sure if we have enough information yet to definitively make that conclusion.
 
Sounds good. What dosage do you use currently and at what dosage you felt good effects?
300mg+300mg+250mg

strongest side effect is amnesia that is now fading away, other one is slurry speak blurry vision that last ca 15 min to 2h depends, id you have normal dosage then it is ok, if it is early morning dosage biggest chance that you got stronger lasting side effect, afternoon know and evening not important you sleep
 
I dont want to be negative but i worry about the long term affects. So far it seems that if you taper off the T comes back. But I'm not sure if we have enough information yet to definitively make that conclusion.
That is reason as that say autifony will be one per day pill to end of life...

Anyway no one in EU dont need retigabine, before i came to Sweden i bought 2 box in Croatia for 50 euro each, so i have 2 x 100 mg x 84 for 100 euro
 
300mg+300mg+250mg

strongest side effect is amnesia that is now fading away, other one is slurry speak blurry vision that last ca 15 min to 2h depends, id you have normal dosage then it is ok, if it is early morning dosage biggest chance that you got stronger lasting side effect, afternoon know and evening not important you sleep
christian are all the side effects subsiding now? including the slurred speech and blurry vision?
also did you feel those side effects all day long or immediately after each dose?
 
I dont want to be negative but i worry about the long term affects. So far it seems that if you taper off the T comes back. But I'm not sure if we have enough information yet to definitively make that conclusion.
We're still waiting on Mpt to come back from vacation and update us on that one, Rube. Christian is just starting to find his proper dosage, IMO. Mpt found his quickly, due to low side effects in his case, and stayed on it a full 2 months. He was successful in dropping the dosage a little...hope he'll come back and say he's dropped it a lot. Experiences will vary, but from what I've seen of the long-term effects reports, they are in terms of a couple years. Six to eight months seems like a reasonable risk if it does what we hope.

Come on back, Mpt!

@Christian78, so glad you are still having success. From your experience, I wonder if there are more complex dose-dependent effects than we thought, as some of the lower doses seems to have given you the most grief. I know the body is acclimating, but I wonder if there are other things going on. Seems like I read somewhere that AUT-00063 can act as both an inhibitor and a stimulant for the nerves, depending on how much you take! Maybe you were in stimulant mode previously and only after crossing a certain threshold did you get into inhibition. Didn't say anything about this earlier because I can't find where I read that, but it sticks in my head....
 
It seems to me that @Mpt was rather brave in his fast taper up. I am guessing that there was a possibility that such a fast taper up would have led to some heightened side effects, but either those risks are overblown, or he was lucky (I believe the former). I don't plan on tapering up that fast, but I think it might be a good idea to taper up as fast as possible. There might be something to @Zimichael's suggestion that we 'blow the door open' with regard to these channels. I have a (speculative) concern that there may be some time-dependent homestatic response at the cellular level that is working against the drugs effects, and a fast taper up might counter-act that more effectively.

I also think that it is important to get a sufficiently effective dosage in your system. According to the australian report (http://www.tga.gov.au/pdf/auspar/auspar-retigabine-131017.pdf), there was a significantly greater effect on epilepsy on the higher dosages (900mg/day or 1200mg/day) than on the 600mg/day dosage.

Also from the australian report:

"The reported order of potency for retigabine effects on KCNQ mediated currents by expressed subunits was KCNQ3 > KCNQ2/3 > KCNQ2 > KCNQ4."

and

"There is limited activity at KCNQ4 and KCNQ5 (EC50 values of ~5.2 μM and ~6.4 μM, respectively; relative to a mean free fraction Cmax value of ~1 μM at the highest clinical dose of 1200mg/day)"


So at 600mg/day (~0.5 μM), it is probably not as effective. Also, from https://www.ucl.ac.uk/npp/research/dab/dablab/Tatulian_et_al_2001.pdf

"10 μM retigabine produced a significant left-shift of the activation curves in the order KCNQ3 (-43 mV) > KCNQ2/3 (-30 mV) > KCNQ2 (-24 mV) > KCNQ4 (-14 mV). "

Check out this table:

1.png



While the KCNQ2/3 (homo/hetero-meric) channels are present throughout the CNS and may in fact help to hyper-polarize the hyperactive neurons in the entire network, the KCNQ4 channels are localized to the cochlea (OHC basal membrane), and many other areas of the auditory network (notably absent from the DCN and cortex, however). There is some reason to believe that modulation of the KCNQ4 channels might be effective, so taking a dose sufficient enough to affect these channels might be key. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10760300

My general sense about this drug is that you don't want to be on if it is not helping you. In my opinion, the goal should be to get to 900mg/day (perhaps even 1200mg/day) in as safe and quick a timeframe as possible. The more I read about this drug, the more optimistic I am that it will help most people. @Mpt and @Christian are the only two so far that have reached 900mg/day, and they have seen great results. While retigabine is not as specific to the auditory network as AUT00063 (Kv3 channels are highly specific to auditory network), it is still effectively causing hyperpolarization in (most of) the neurons we are concerned about. I am aware of the nuance regarding interspike-intervals that @benryu was mentioned, but from what I have read I don't think that is important enough not to give retigabine a shot.

My gameplan is to get to 900mg/day in as safe and quick a timeframe as possible, maybe something like a 300mg/day start with a 150mg increase every 5 days. I plan on trying this for at least 6 months, but no longer than one year. If during my taper down my T returns, I probably will lean towards stopping the drug and waiting for something with a better side effect profile, but hopefully there will be some permanent improvement. Hopefully I can get my prescription soon. Anyways, just wanted to share my thoughts on dosage.
 
christian are all the side effects subsiding now? including the slurred speech and blurry vision?
also did you feel those side effects all day long or immediately after each dose?
All side effect are going down, but really some are nice, it like makes you a bit high. :D I suppose it is becouse one needs time to get used on then, and body needs it too. I notices just after a pill one cant really do hard gym, bit it can cross walking machine.
 
I find it very strange that mpt is not posting experience while writing in other threads. We are all crazy waiting for his news. The big question is if Retigabine make permanent cure or will always T come back to the initial state. And if not, how long must keep on Retigabine to make permament changes.
I think, that the fact that AUT results are coming in not so far time is making some people decide to wait for it instead of test with Retigabine, that would happen in most of non severe cases like mine. Anyways, we have something that is working as some proved and we are on the right track, that makes me feel very optimistic about all K channel modulators
 
Well, I hate to say this, but I am pretty sure that my Trobalt trial has not produced and will not produce any results of note with my tinnitus. I say "pretty sure", because I am not quite done yet, and the Gods could decide that 'going down' in dose could be just the ticket. But I doubt it.

As of this morning's 5:00 am dose, I have dropped from 600 mg/day total (200/200/200 mg), to 450 mg/day total (150/150/150 mg). I am starting a fast taper as am running out of pills and do not want to take a dive from 600 t0 zero in just a few days. My sense is, that could be 'dangerous'. I will however be finished if all goes as planned one week from now...then Retigabine plasma free (c. 98% if go by the book) in 10 days after that.

All of you have been on this Retig ride since the beginning will know that I had high hopes yet realistic expectations. I also said I don't placebo. For sure if I did, this would be the time, as this is the first real hope of a probable positive "T effect" I have seen in decades, while we wait for 00063. Sigh!

From what I can tell I am the only trialee that has had zero change in T volume, tone, pitch, whatever at these doses. @Hengist had a blow-out after the first pill (Where are you? Are you OK?), @Viking had 'other issues' that stopped him, everyone else had effects quite soon. Even Christian was getting results after day five...

Today second day on 200 mg x 3 per day, I would like to say but I am afraid to jinx it. I feel my second day on 200 x 3 per day and i thing when I listen my Tinnitus went down like between 30-45% plus i don't get spikes. ( i had really reactive tinnitus)

(usage program was 3 day 3 x 100, 3 days 3 x 200, then normal dosage)

I am now 3 weeks in and ramped up in dose a lot faster than I thought I would. My body weight mg/kg dose level target was 600 mg per day. We know that it rapidly crosses the BBB...
Since RTG/EZG is highly permeable and not subject to P-glycoproteinactive transport across the blood–brain barrier, free plasma concentrations provide an accurate indication of the free brain concentrations achieved.
...thus my "kick the doors down with a high enough dose" was given at least a small chance of working. Unfortunately the doors stayed shut.
Yes, there is evidence that the length of time with tinnitus will make it harder to change. So perhaps my results here prove that...or maybe not. Perhaps hitting the Kv7 channels is not the right doorway for me. We are all different.
The reason I could not give this trial more time (as those following will know) and why I increased dose so quickly, was that the supplier was "out of stock" for my repeat order. Thus I had not option. Either drop it or give it a go at 600 mg/day...which I did.

Now it is time for some other 'longer term T' folks to step up I hope. We need more info. We need a wider trial base.

On an ending note for now, I will say that side effects were surprisingly mild versus what I was expecting. I have had far worse experiences (though mainly with 'gut/nutritional' type meds). Yes I had one day (day 7 at 200 mg/day total) where my tinnitus went up markedly, but came to baseline the next day. Yes I have increased hyperacusis as of around the same time. I am hoping this goes down as I taper off the drug.

Well, enough for one post. I will do a formal update on the "Users thread" as well. I will also add more posts about some tips, thoughts, other mild side-effects, and some concerns, over the next days. I will also do a full report with my total dosing schedule after I complete this month long 'trial' next week.

Hell, I had to give it a try and put my money where my mouth was. I applaud those doing this Retigabine and hope others do so too. As the Brits used to say..."Carry on."

Best, Zimichael
 
Im really sorry about that Zimichael, im pretty sure that the fact that is very chronic has something to do with it. Hopefully the big kick of 800mg per day of Aut63 will do the job. Even would be safer a bigger dose as no side effects were described plus Kv3 are meant to be more effective than Kv7. Also I hope your H gets the previous level.

Talking about H @Christian78 did you experience any improvement? I hope so as it seems to be a side of the same "T" coin. For me, H is more a problem than T in some situations.
 
@Zimichael, I think it still is impossible to say without going up to a therapeutic dose (900mg - 1200mg). Yes some people reported changes at lower doses, but nobody has found a dose lower than 900mg to be optimum, that is, nobody has stopped at 450/600/750 because their tinnitus went away. People have stopped going up due to side effects, not efficacy. Concentration in the blood may have little to do with it.

I know you're in a position where you have to taper down. Unless Juan Carlos wants to start an export business it looks like we're going to continue to have a supply problem here in the states. Hopefully we'll have Autifony news before long. If not, maybe we'll know more about effective dosing after locoyeti's experiment and you'll have another opportunity to benefit. Seems like Lep and Christian had better experiences the second time around!
 
Well, I hate to say this, but I am pretty sure that my Trobalt trial has not produced and will not produce any results of note with my tinnitus. I say "pretty sure", because I am not quite done yet, and the Gods could decide that 'going down' in dose could be just the ticket. But I doubt it.

As of this morning's 5:00 am dose, I have dropped from 600 mg/day total (200/200/200 mg), to 450 mg/day total (150/150/150 mg). I am starting a fast taper as am running out of pills and do not want to take a dive from 600 t0 zero in just a few days. My sense is, that could be 'dangerous'. I will however be finished if all goes as planned one week from now...then Retigabine plasma free (c. 98% if go by the book) in 10 days after that.

All of you have been on this Retig ride since the beginning will know that I had high hopes yet realistic expectations. I also said I don't placebo. For sure if I did, this would be the time, as this is the first real hope of a probable positive "T effect" I have seen in decades, while we wait for 00063. Sigh!

From what I can tell I am the only trialee that has had zero change in T volume, tone, pitch, whatever at these doses. @Hengist had a blow-out after the first pill (Where are you? Are you OK?), @Viking had 'other issues' that stopped him, everyone else had effects quite soon. Even Christian was getting results after day five...



I am now 3 weeks in and ramped up in dose a lot faster than I thought I would. My body weight mg/kg dose level target was 600 mg per day. We know that it rapidly crosses the BBB...
Since RTG/EZG is highly permeable and not subject to P-glycoproteinactive transport across the blood–brain barrier, free plasma concentrations provide an accurate indication of the free brain concentrations achieved.
...thus my "kick the doors down with a high enough dose" was given at least a small chance of working. Unfortunately the doors stayed shut.
Yes, there is evidence that the length of time with tinnitus will make it harder to change. So perhaps my results here prove that...or maybe not. Perhaps hitting the Kv7 channels is not the right doorway for me. We are all different.
The reason I could not give this trial more time (as those following will know) and why I increased dose so quickly, was that the supplier was "out of stock" for my repeat order. Thus I had not option. Either drop it or give it a go at 600 mg/day...which I did.

Now it is time for some other 'longer term T' folks to step up I hope. We need more info. We need a wider trial base.

On an ending note for now, I will say that side effects were surprisingly mild versus what I was expecting. I have had far worse experiences (though mainly with 'gut/nutritional' type meds). Yes I had one day (day 7 at 200 mg/day total) where my tinnitus went up markedly, but came to baseline the next day. Yes I have increased hyperacusis as of around the same time. I am hoping this goes down as I taper off the drug.

Well, enough for one post. I will do a formal update on the "Users thread" as well. I will also add more posts about some tips, thoughts, other mild side-effects, and some concerns, over the next days. I will also do a full report with my total dosing schedule after I complete this month long 'trial' next week.

Hell, I had to give it a try and put my money where my mouth was. I applaud those doing this Retigabine and hope others do so too. As the Brits used to say..."Carry on."

Best, Zimichael

Hey @Zimichael thanks for undertaking this trial. Would you consider restarting this after your dental work? I feel like a higher dosage and/or a longer timeframe (at least a few months) would be more definitive. Maybe chronic cases require higher doses (regardless of body mass)?
 
@Zimichael
I thought it took about 4 to 6 weeks to notice any effects and youre just on wk3?

There is no set rule on when one may, or may not, experience any effects on tinnitus (if at all) c/o Retigabine. Everything we have been going on has been extrapolation from the wealth of online studies, papers, reports, GSK submission data, @benryu info, our musings, etc., etc.
However, the "real data" for our purposes here, is what has happened to the people that have actually taken the stuff (Trobalt/Potiga)...In a way, it is the only data that counts for the present, as none of the other sources have been zeroing on on tinnitus.

Go back and read everyone else's posts who has trialed this...All I am saying is, based on our trialees, I am the only one who had no effects at all within a very short period of time, and at the doses I achieved. That is just a fact. (Yes I had a one day T > spike, but I am ignoring that as just "noise").

Now whether this means that it would be the same result if I was able to take Trobalt at 600 mg total/day for another month; or 900 mg total/day for a week, or month, or two months...It is all 'speculation'. That is what "trials" like this are for. One can ponder possibilities ad infinitum and indeed it would be great to know the answers to those questions.

For myself though, I have answered the question...for now. I know my body. I know that with "brain meds" stuff I almost invariably have reacted incredibly quickly. (I mean the Tramadol I had to deal with many months ago was so darn fast I didn't even have time to remember I had taken something! Waaaayy faster than expectations re mood effect. Likewise all the boatload of SSRI's and SNRI's I was given many years ago when I "had" to have "Depression", as no-one could come up with a diagnosis! I and all the docs would always expect at least a 4 week delay or more, yet with zero expectations, I would suddenly be getting effects on day two! No placebo, as often the effects were the opposite of expected. Indeed I was jokingly referred to as a "First in class" patient!!! I could go on...).

So, I will let others take up the trial ball here and will watch what happens to 'long term T' candidates. If they sit on the dose and get zero results up to 600 mg, then suddenly the angels break their inner T trumpets at 900 mg/day...then yeah, of course I would reconsider.

However, at this point, I still have this trial to complete as I taper down. I still want to submit a culminatory report once that is done. Then I have to see what happens to my > hyperacusis as my plasma concentration of Retigabine clears out...and let you all know. "In the name of Science" and all that.

It has been an exhausting process in many ways. I have been on this, and in this, for hundreds of hours since those embryonic days in early July. I have learned a great deal. I have shared lots of great stuff with fellow travelers. I have spent $ to put my money where my mouth is. I have taken risks I was warned not to take. I have made sacrifices (no glass of wine on my deck in the evening! :(). I will not miss waking up every morning at 5:00 am to take my bleedin' Trobalt.

Etc., etc., etc.

Best, Zimichael
 
Well, I hate to say this, but I am pretty sure that my Trobalt trial has not produced and will not produce any results of note with my tinnitus. I say "pretty sure", because I am not quite done yet, and the Gods could decide that 'going down' in dose could be just the ticket. But I doubt it.

As of this morning's 5:00 am dose, I have dropped from 600 mg/day total (200/200/200 mg), to 450 mg/day total (150/150/150 mg). I am starting a fast taper as am running out of pills and do not want to take a dive from 600 t0 zero in just a few days. My sense is, that could be 'dangerous'. I will however be finished if all goes as planned one week from now...then Retigabine plasma free (c. 98% if go by the book) in 10 days after that.

All of you have been on this Retig ride since the beginning will know that I had high hopes yet realistic expectations. I also said I don't placebo. For sure if I did, this would be the time, as this is the first real hope of a probable positive "T effect" I have seen in decades, while we wait for 00063. Sigh!

From what I can tell I am the only trialee that has had zero change in T volume, tone, pitch, whatever at these doses. @Hengist had a blow-out after the first pill (Where are you? Are you OK?), @Viking had 'other issues' that stopped him, everyone else had effects quite soon. Even Christian was getting results after day five...



I am now 3 weeks in and ramped up in dose a lot faster than I thought I would. My body weight mg/kg dose level target was 600 mg per day. We know that it rapidly crosses the BBB...
Since RTG/EZG is highly permeable and not subject to P-glycoproteinactive transport across the blood–brain barrier, free plasma concentrations provide an accurate indication of the free brain concentrations achieved.
...thus my "kick the doors down with a high enough dose" was given at least a small chance of working. Unfortunately the doors stayed shut.
Yes, there is evidence that the length of time with tinnitus will make it harder to change. So perhaps my results here prove that...or maybe not. Perhaps hitting the Kv7 channels is not the right doorway for me. We are all different.
The reason I could not give this trial more time (as those following will know) and why I increased dose so quickly, was that the supplier was "out of stock" for my repeat order. Thus I had not option. Either drop it or give it a go at 600 mg/day...which I did.

Now it is time for some other 'longer term T' folks to step up I hope. We need more info. We need a wider trial base.

On an ending note for now, I will say that side effects were surprisingly mild versus what I was expecting. I have had far worse experiences (though mainly with 'gut/nutritional' type meds). Yes I had one day (day 7 at 200 mg/day total) where my tinnitus went up markedly, but came to baseline the next day. Yes I have increased hyperacusis as of around the same time. I am hoping this goes down as I taper off the drug.

Well, enough for one post. I will do a formal update on the "Users thread" as well. I will also add more posts about some tips, thoughts, other mild side-effects, and some concerns, over the next days. I will also do a full report with my total dosing schedule after I complete this month long 'trial' next week.

Hell, I had to give it a try and put my money where my mouth was. I applaud those doing this Retigabine and hope others do so too. As the Brits used to say..."Carry on."

Best, Zimichael

Dear Zimichael i'm sorry for you. I had to stopped trobalt because the side effects on my kidney was returning. Now i'm on HI-FU with Dr. Jeanmonod. Hoping...
 
@Zimichael, I think it still is impossible to say without going up to a therapeutic dose (900mg - 1200mg). Yes some people reported changes at lower doses, but nobody has found a dose lower than 900mg to be optimum, that is, nobody has stopped at 450/600/750 because their tinnitus went away. People have stopped going up due to side effects, not efficacy. Concentration in the blood may have little to do with it.

I know you're in a position where you have to taper down. Unless Juan Carlos wants to start an export business it looks like we're going to continue to have a supply problem here in the states. Hopefully we'll have Autifony news before long. If not, maybe we'll know more about effective dosing after locoyeti's experiment and you'll have another opportunity to benefit. Seems like Lep and Christian had better experiences the second time around!
@SoulStation is on a pretty low dose of 300mg per day i think. he has posted that he has seen some improvements.​
 
Im really sorry about that Zimichael, im pretty sure that the fact that is very chronic has something to do with it. Hopefully the big kick of 800mg per day of Aut63 will do the job. Even would be safer a bigger dose as no side effects were described plus Kv3 are meant to be more effective than Kv7. Also I hope your H gets the previous level.

Talking about H @Christian78 did you experience any improvement? I hope so as it seems to be a side of the same "T" coin. For me, H is more a problem than T in some situations.

Yes well there are some sound that make my t worse, and yes sharp sounds make t worse, but i personally dont know what is H, and how it feels to have it so i dont know how to answer because i dont know what is H (except name)
 
@Christian78 I guess not everybody with T experiencies H. What you described is what I call "reactive tinnitus", that's diferent from H.
H is when some sounds (high pitched) feel super loud that makes you so annoyed, in some cases/people can even feel pain in the ears with that sounds, the inmediate reaction is to close your ears as a super high volume sounds was playing.
In my case I have some H but not severe, I feel it with high freq sounds of course but also when I am talking myself, that weirdly forces me to talk softer some times
 
Sorry, deleted the original of this as a "little birdie" told me my family name was visible even under the black ink...which it was when I zoomed in! (The quality of photos with these little digital cameras is amazing). Anyway, here again with a 'redacted' photo. Zimichael

@Viking ... @locoyeti ...Thanks! Yeah it took quite a lot of effort to do the whole 'shebang' thus far. Also I stick by my
statements about dose, and the need for even the faintest whisper of a change, even for a few seconds, by the 600
mg/day level to warrant another go at this stuff. Also, that I am totally willing to review that based on others with 'longer term T' who may try it and get 'results' suddenly at higher dosages than 600 mg,...or after longer exposure times even at lower (or higher) doses.
Our "trialee base" is just way too small, and way too short in time frame to jump to more than preliminary conclusions.
And I do have some by the way, and will share one later...but will reserve summary for final report.

Oh, have also been meaning to post these photos. And yeah, "London Pharmacy" is a few doors down from "Westlake Pharmacy" http://www.globalpharmatrading.com/Contact-Us/ which is the drop shipper c/o CandaPharmacyOnline.


2014-10-08_0746.png


2014-10-08_0747.png


Best, Zimichael
 

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