Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience

[JohnAdams]

the Doctor would be famous In Korea

Imagine being an investor and being approached to fund a very large study involving PRP, a substance that comes from your body, and can be prepared by anybody.

 

[GlennS]

Imagine being an investor and being approached to fund a very large study involving PRP, a substance that comes from your body, and can be prepared by anybody.

There goes the tinfoil hat again. You do realize medical procedures that don't involve custom drugs happen all the time. Like... transfusions. Also, the immunotherapy I was talking about also work in a similar principle, using your own blood to culture a serum. Immunotherapy IS percolating into the mainstream. It saved Jimmy Carter, for instance. There is no conspiracy against such things being developed.

Obviously the business model involved is not selling prescription drugs but the cost involved in drawing, preparing, and injecting the serum. That doesn't come cheap if Shim's pricing is an indicator, and hence it is a profitable enterprise, something that should excite "investors". But the way you describe it, it's something that could be done in a back-alley with a dirty needle for 10 bucks and is hence a threat to the medical industrial complex pyramid scheme. You can't have it both ways. Either this is a cheap and almost DIY solution or it's an expensive and delicate (but relatively low-tech) outpatient style procedure along the lines of hair-transplants.

 

[JohnAdams]

@GlennS
Immunotherapy for cancer treatments utilize processes that are much more complicated than producing PRP, and the technology to produce PRP is much less expensive and already widely dispersed.

I don't see how investors wanting ROI is a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

 

[kelpiemsp]

I do just want to say that @Jack Straw is the definition of healthy skepticism. He is a cool dude. Which makes sense because the Grateful Dead is cool dude music. He has not crossed the line into making tragic leaps of logic into ad-hominin attacks. He wants evidence, and that's totally logical.

The problem here is this:

When I was in grad school, one of my professors was a biomedical researcher that has dealt with the FDA. He made it perfectly clear to us how the system works and how if cures for a disease were found today that were cheap/free, that we would never get them because the way it's set up, there has to be proprietary products or some intellectual property involved. Well, that's the case here. Blood and bone marrow cannot be patented, therefore no company would invest the money into it to prove it out, let alone get it through FDA trials, which are super expensive.

So this creates a situation where the only medicine that can "get out" has to be made out of a proprietary compound, or process. This creates an assumptive paradigm that approved medicines cannot come from nature, or our bodies.

Except for PRP is widely available and people are doing it. Logic does not hold up. You can charge tons for the procedure itself. Check out Regenexx. People are not doing it because they do not believe in its efficacy. That is the long and short of it.

 

[kelpiemsp]

Imagine being an investor and being approached to fund a very large study involving PRP, a substance that comes from your body, and can be prepared by anybody.

There are over 15,000 studies on pub med on PRP..............................................

 

[JohnAdams]

There are over 15,000 studies on pub med on PRP..............................................

You're actually right. Well, looks like there needs to be some studies on PRP for hearing loss then.

There sure as heck aren't any that invalidate this.

 

[kelpiemsp]

You're actually right. Well, looks like there needs to be some studies on PRP for hearing loss then.

There sure as heck aren't any that invalidate this.

well here PRP caused hearing loss by activating an autoimmune disorder....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30511475
"In our opinion, significant contraindication of PRP procedure is an autoimmune disease in the active phase." just one of the many reasons to slow walk this.

 

[kelpiemsp]

You're actually right. Well, looks like there needs to be some studies on PRP for hearing loss then.

There sure as heck aren't any that invalidate this.

It's just a matter of time. PRP is moving very fast, and of course there is clinical lag time. I have benefitted from PRP myself (it helped regrow cartilage in my knee) but it's simply an economics thing, IMHO.

 

[JohnAdams]

well here PRP caused hearing loss by activating an autoimmune disorder....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30511475
"In our opinion, significant contraindication of PRP procedure is an autoimmune disease in the active phase." just one of the many reasons to slow walk this.

From that same article.

"Platelet rich plasma procedure (PRP) is considered to be one of the safest aesthetic procedures. Adverse reactions after PRP administration are extreme rare."

Also, looks like they didn't even use her own PRP, as serum sickness involves the introduction of a foreign antigen, like from an animal, which makes sense because how can your own blood make you sick?

"Serum sickness is a reversible systemic reaction due to the formation of immune complexes with a foreign antigen present in circulation.

"Classic" serum sickness results from the formation of immune complexes due to immunization of a human host with a foreign protein."


https://empendium.com/mcmtextbook/chapter/B31.II.17.2.

"Serum sickness
Specialty Hematology
Serum sickness in humans is a reaction to proteins in antiserum derived from a non-human animal source"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serum_sickness

 

[kelpiemsp]

From that same article.
View attachment 29657

"Platelet rich plasma procedure (PRP) is considered to be one of the safest aesthetic procedures. Adverse reactions after PRP administration are extreme rare."

Also, looks like they didn't even use her own PRP, as serum sickness involves the introduction of a foreign antigen, like from an animal, which makes sense because how can your own blood make you sick?

"Serum sickness is a reversible systemic reaction due to the formation of immune complexes with a foreign antigen present in circulation.

"Classic" serum sickness results from the formation of immune complexes due to immunization of a human host with a foreign protein."


https://empendium.com/mcmtextbook/chapter/B31.II.17.2.

"Serum sickness
Specialty Hematology
Serum sickness in humans is a reaction to proteins in antiserum derived from a non-human animal source"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serum_sickness

But they exist... and while it's effectiveness has not been proven... neither has its safety

 

[JohnAdams]

But they exist... and while it's effectiveness has not been proven... neither has its safety

I just requested the full text of that study. I have a feeling they didn't use her own PRP. We shall see.

 

[Artemis2K]

One more thought while I was picking my kids up at school...

JohnAdams had experienced silence with Turmeric, and his tinnitus was also affected by his sleep. Mine is relentless like @Jazzer's and many others.

If 72 injections and then another trip to Korea can't kick @JohnAdams's mild hearing losses ass and whip his tinnitus, this alone casts serious doubts for me about the efficacy of the treatment.

You're talking potentially 90 to a hundred injections, if that can't regenerate mild hearing loss then folks like me don't stand a chance with this therapy. That's "normie" logic, using the vernacular of the forum.

Forget the audiograms, this in itself is a huge issue. Many people's tinnitus reduces or disappears over the first year or year and a half. To even say this is "better" than FX-322 is just pure braggadocious. "It has more things" (JohnAdams words). I know John was trying to say it would not only regenerate hair cells but also nerves.

So far the therapy seems lacking, but time will tell. If you dish it out, you got to be able to take it. That's only fair. Calling people babies, or knobs, ......well that ain't right.

Hoping good news and reports will be forthcoming. And if not, at least you were brave enough to have tried. I admire your courage and intelligence.

But I do think @JohnAdams you could be a bit more chill when people ask you questions... so be it.

Peace be with you.

The thing is though, it did. The tinnitus was almost gone, and John has told me that his hearing was much clearer, and that music was more lively. Unfortunately though, John didn't do a very good job protecting his ears. The downside of the treatment is that your ears become more vulnerable under the regeneration process, so you have to be as careful as someone with severe hyperacusis. I don't know if John needed to go back to South Korea. He could have very well stayed and for all I know most of his progress could have returned. I have absolutely no idea.

John left under his decision. He wasn't strongly encouraged by Shim. In fact, when I briefly mentioned this to Shim, he was actually shocked that he was doing that, as well as so early. Though he did say that as a doctor he'd recommend coming back as far as treatment is concerned he would recommend it, but the whole process is very expensive. Shim is not a scam artist.

Also, why the hell does everyone keep assuming that the minimum investment is $18,000? That's flat out wrong. That only applies to people who have hearing loss bad enough, like over 30 dB or something, to need it. You can choose to have a smaller treatment for both ears, and even have treatment for one ear for much less than that. Suggesting that it is going to be $18,000 is profoundly disingenuous. Why would Shim tell me that he'd treat me for half the price after showing him my audiogram if he was a scammer? And this is very early on before I got to trust the guy. He could have very well said I'd have to pay $6,000, which was what the minimum was at the time (it's now $4,500), but he didn't. He said that my hearing loss was good enough to where he was confused as to why I'd need it until I mentioned the tinnitus, and then he said that dividing one treatment would be enough to fix it. If he was trying to scam me, why didn't he say $6,000? I have a tendency of sharing too much, and he knew I was desperate, and he could have just said $6,000 or $12,000, and I would have not questioned it. But he didn't. He was way too open.

Also, accusing John of being a scammer really makes me mad. I've openly talked about my aspirations of online business to Shim as well as how broke I was when I started to trust him. Never have I once been suggested such a thing. I would have stopped trusting him if I did, regardless of my understanding of affiliate marketing, and I wouldn't have kept this discussion alive. My aspirations for ecommerce are very open, to where if he wanted a marketer he would have casually mentioned that, but he didn't.

You guys really need to come up with better conspiracies. They're really bad.

 

[JohnAdams]

IGF-1 is in PPR.

" The positive effects of IGF1 on hair cell damage have been confirmed with in vivo animal experiments; hearing recovery in patients with sudden sensorineural hearing loss refractory to systemic glucocorticoid treatment has also been shown to occur following IGF1 treatment. The mechanisms of IGF1-induced maintenance of hair cell number have been investigated using a cochlear explant culture system, which demonstrated that IGF1 acts on supporting cells, leading to the inhibition of hair cell apoptosis and the proliferation of supporting cells. "

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595515000982

 

[GlennS]

I don't see how investors wanting ROI is a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

Context...context...context.

You're invoking this in order to bolster Shim's credibility and validate the idea of going to the gray market for experimental treatments.

 

[Artemis2K]

But they exist... and while it's effectiveness has not been proven... neither has its safety

It may very well have the same likelihood of causing autoimmune disorders as vaccinations. Risk is everywhere in medicine. Infection, autoimmune disorders, doctors messing up, pharmaceutical complications, the list goes on.

 

[kelpiemsp]

It may very well have the same likelihood of causing autoimmune disorders as vaccinations. Risk is everywhere in medicine. Infection, autoimmune disorders, doctors messing up, pharmaceutical complications, the list goes on.

If that becomes the only risk, then I believe it will see mass adoption.

 

[GlennS]

There sure as heck aren't any that invalidate this.

It's not about proving a negative. It's about proving a positive.

 

[just1morething]

Or you can sit around and be a baby and wait for corporations and the government to do everything for you like knobs.

(slang) The glans penis, the sensitive bulbous structure at the end of the penis also known as the head of the penis.
I didn't know what a knob was until I googled it. Interesting, must mean a dickhead maybe?

 

[JohnAdams]

(slang) The glans penis, the sensitive bulbous structure at the end of the penis also known as the head of the penis.
I didn't know what a knob was until I googled it. Interesting, must mean a dickhead maybe?

Lol I'm dumb I thought it literally meant like a doorknob, showing no action. Oops.

 

[JohnAdams]

If that becomes the only risk, then I believe it will see mass adoption.

I don't really see how you can be allergic to your own blood. The actual risks are infection, inflammation, all risks involved with having an eardrum injection, and all risks involved with bone marrow extraction and getting stitches.

 

[JohnAdams]

You're invoking this in order to bolster Shim's credibility and validate the idea of going to the gray market for experimental treatments.

I have actually been advocating for people to take this info their own ENT and request them to do it.
So take a hike narte.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

I don't really see how you can be allergic to your own blood. The actual risks are infection, inflammation, all risks involved with having an eardrum injection, and all risks involved with bone marrow extraction and getting stitches.

You've actually put your money where your mouth is and flown halfway around the world to do something about your tinnitus. As opposed to the cowards that have to tear it down because they need permission from big daddy government. I suspect your critics wouldn't be brave enough to take 72 shots in the ear even if it was legal.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Probably nothing, but the vast majority of us have local audiograms done when seeing an ENT in our own country. They usually require them before seeing the doctor. The ENT I had seen said my HF hearing loss is causing my tinnitus. I have left sided TMJD also so that confuses matters.

You have mentioned that steroids silenced your tinnitus. Have you ever tried acupuncture or craniosacral massage... it may work for you... I've wanted to suggest this to you for ages... if you have tried this then my bad, if you haven't and can find someone good for a reasonable price, give it a shot. Steroids did nothing for my unchanging relentless squeal.

The thing is though, it did. The tinnitus was almost gone, and John has told me that his hearing was much clearer, and that music was more lively. Unfortunately though, John didn't do a very good job protecting his ears. The downside of the treatment is that your ears become more vulnerable under the regeneration process, so you have to be as careful as someone with severe hyperacusis. I don't know if John needed to go back to South Korea. He could have very well stayed and for all I know most of his progress could have returned. I have absolutely no idea.

John left under his decision. He wasn't strongly encouraged by Shim. In fact, when I briefly mentioned this to Shim, he was actually shocked that he was doing that, as well as so early. Though he did say that as a doctor he'd recommend coming back as far as treatment is concerned he would recommend it, but the whole process is very expensive. Shim is not a scam artist.

Also, why the hell does everyone keep assuming that the minimum investment is $18,000? That's flat out wrong. That only applies to people who have hearing loss bad enough, like over 30 dB or something, to need it. You can choose to have a smaller treatment for both ears, and even have treatment for one ear for much less than that. Suggesting that it is going to be $18,000 is profoundly disingenuous. Why would Shim tell me that he'd treat me for half the price after showing him my audiogram if he was a scammer? And this is very early on before I got to trust the guy. He could have very well said I'd have to pay $6,000, which was what the minimum was at the time (it's now $4,500), but he didn't. He said that my hearing loss was good enough to where he was confused as to why I'd need it until I mentioned the tinnitus, and then he said that dividing one treatment would be enough to fix it. If he was trying to scam me, why didn't he say $6,000? I have a tendency of sharing too much, and he knew I was desperate, and he could have just said $6,000 or $12,000, and I would have not questioned it. But he didn't. He was way too open.

Also, accusing John of being a scammer really makes me mad. I've openly talked about my aspirations of online business to Shim as well as how broke I was when I started to trust him. Never have I once been suggested such a thing. I would have stopped trusting him if I did, regardless of my understanding of affiliate marketing, and I wouldn't have kept this discussion alive. My aspirations for ecommerce are very open, to where if he wanted a marketer he would have casually mentioned that, but he didn't.

You guys really need to come up with better conspiracies. They're really bad.

Not a conspiracy mate, he's mentioned $18,000 to everyone post John's treatment. It was $6,000 a few years ago. Times have changed, it's a new price. You definitely have a special relationship with him, that's great.

I never accused John of being a scammer. Not fair. Never said or implied John was scamming anyone. I only stated the pricing has changed post Johns visit. If I called John a scammer, please show me, I would never do that.

 

[Ken219]

Please, someone take out the trash!

 

[Artemis2K]

You have mentioned that steroids silenced your tinnitus. Have you ever tried acupuncture or craniosacral massage... it may work for you... I've wanted to suggest this to you for ages... if you have tried this then my bad, if you haven't and can find someone good for a reasonable price, give it a shot. Steroids did nothing for my unchanging relentless squeal.

Not a conspiracy mate, he's mentioned $18,000 to everyone post John's treatment. It was $6,000 a few years ago. Times have changed, it's a new price. You definitely have a special relationship with him, that's great.

I never accused John of being a scammer. Not fair. Never said or implied John was scamming anyone. I only stated the pricing has changed post Johns visit. If I called John a scammer, please show me, I would never do that.

That part wasn't directed towards you.

I did discuss his pricing on video call before. He said he "reduced it" to $4,500 minimum because he is trying to improve the price after improving his treatment. That's what's frustrating to me. There must be some error on some end. I will have to talk to him again about it.

 

[JohnAdams]

As opposed to the cowards that have to tear it down because they need permission from big daddy government.

Well, there is also a steep cost factor involved. It'd be nice if insurance would pay for this.

I suspect your critics wouldn't be brave enough to take 72 shots in the ear even if it was legal.

Well, it's not illegal, therefore it's legal. That's been one of my biggest points. Any ENT in America can do this today if they want, and notice I've been vocal about trying to make this a reality. Most of my vile critics are trying to portray Minbo and I of having ulterior motives, which is illogical, because I'm advocating for people to take control of their fates and seek this out, despite the obvious uphill battle.
The pain is really not that bad. They put numbing cream on your eardrum, and even a few times the cream had worn off and the pain wasn't really that bad.

 

[Ken219]

Why is this thread still active? If I had a treatment to reduce or cure Tinnitus I would patent it and open clinics world wide. There is too much junk out there. ATA BTA articles are about the same as 30 years ago.

 

[kelpiemsp]

I don't really see how you can be allergic to your own blood. The actual risks are infection, inflammation, all risks involved with having an eardrum injection, and all risks involved with bone marrow extraction and getting stitches.

Well brush up on your bio... https://journals.lww.com/md-journal...action_to_platelet_rich_plasma__PRP__.30.aspx

the allergy was NOT to PRP, but PRP is more than just blood.

 

[Artemis2K]

Why is this thread still active? If I had a treatment to reduce or cure Tinnitus I would patent it and open clinics world wide. There is too much junk out there. ATA BTA articles are about the same as 30 years ago.

PRP cannot be patented. It comes from your own body. You wouldn't really get any far.

 

[JohnAdams]

I have found a viable treatment for tinnitus that any doctor can replicate if they want. I have spent tons of cash to find out about this. I have done my best to explain the mechanism behind its function. I have openly shared how the procedure is performed, and amazingly, it is legal to perform this in America right now. There is nothing stopping anyone from taking this info to an ENT and trying to negotiate having it done, other than fear of failure or laziness.