South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

[Artemis2K]

I would love to see someone having this treatment done while making his audiograms in his home country. Does anyone consider this treatment with some seriousness?

Some do. I would have to try Wilden's treatment first before I ever consider it. I would also need to talk with Minbo Shim more, perhaps ask him about the negative outcomes and whether or not they are permanent. His websites did after all say it took a while for full effect.

 

[lolkas]

I would love to see someone having this treatment done while making his audiograms in his home country. Does anyone consider this treatment with some seriousness?

I am hoping that we get more data this year to see real dynamics and effeviency of this treatment. If there will be steady effectiveness (evel moderate) - i will go.

My problem here is exactly in what you have posted here (great job by the way, i am sure most people would aggree that your analysis is much better some of these from pharma labs), i have seen these lost db's and left me thinking.

I am trying to figure out why if lets say patient came with following audiogram:
1k 40db
2k 50db
3k 35db
4/5/6/7/8k 30db

And after first treatment patient came out with:
1k 15db
2k 25db
3k 20db
4/5/6k 30db
7k 50db
8k 45db

Why there is loss at hight freq? Maybe thats temporary (since eardrum was damaged through needle + fluid from injection passed through cocheair membrain (well injectuon soaked in through it) and since it "touches" hught freq cells on entrance, they get sort of numb or they migrate partially to damaged area and become replacement?

 

[Artemis2K]

I am hoping that we get more data this year to see real dynamics and effeviency of this treatment. If there will be steady effectiveness (evel moderate) - i will go.

My problem here is exactly in what you have posted here (great job by the way, i am sure most people would aggree that your analysis is much better some of these from pharma labs), i have seen these lost db's and left me thinking.

I am trying to figure out why if lets say patient came with following audiogram:
1k 40db
2k 50db
3k 35db
4/5/6/7/8k 30db

And after first treatment patient came out with:
1k 15db
2k 25db
3k 20db
4/5/6k 30db
7k 50db
8k 45db

Why there is loss at hight freq? Maybe thats temporary (since eardrum was damaged through needle + fluid from injection passed through cocheair membrain (well injectuon soaked in through it) and since it "touches" hught freq cells on entrance, they get sort of numb or they migrate partially to damaged area and become replacement?

That was my line of thinking. Perhaps it could also have something to do with swelling too? I wonder if Wilden's treatment would be beneficial for along side of this... or would cause additional harm?

Uggghhhh. I really hope I can get my ears fixed. My life has been in limbo for way too long.

 

[bill 112]

Hard to know but I would imagine the eardrum healing would have something to do with it?A mate of mine blew out his left eardrum years ago by sticking his ear to a speaker that suddenly turned on(complete idiot)

He had to get it patched up or whatever at the ENT but his audiogram showed a heavy high frequency hearing loss.
He didn't have T or anything like that but after his final appointment to check on how the eardrum was healing he was given another hearing test that showed perfect hearing in the affected ear.

Maybe it was spontaneous recovery or maybe it was the fact that the eardrum had healed?Who knows but his hearing is fine to this day.

 

[bill 112]

That was my line of thinking. Perhaps it could also have something to do with swelling too? I wonder if Wilden's treatment would be beneficial for along side of this... or would cause additional harm?

Uggghhhh. I really hope I can get my ears fixed. My life has been in limbo for way too long.

ATEOS had laser therapy alongside his SC treatment,if anything he says it's important to do both simultaneously.

 

[lolkas]

That was my line of thinking. Perhaps it could also have something to do with swelling too? I wonder if Wilden's treatment would be beneficial for along side of this... or would cause additional harm?

Uggghhhh. I really hope I can get my ears fixed. My life has been in limbo for way too long.

No sh*t bro, i don't struggle near as bad as you, however im kinda close to fly out join Pashmerga to fight ISIS and end my journey that way, suicide is no go. Sorro for off-topic post.

 

[linearb]

Anyone claiming this success rate and charging these amounts immediately sets my scam alert off, because lots of weird clinics have promised high success rates with no complications for thousands of dollars, and in every other case that I'm aware of, they were full of shit.

 

[Artemis2K]

Hard to know but I would imagine the eardrum healing would have something to do with it?A mate of mine blew out his left eardrum years ago by sticking his ear to a speaker that suddenly turned on(complete idiot)

He had to get it patched up or whatever at the ENT but his audiogram showed a heavy high frequency hearing loss.
He didn't have T or anything like that but after his final appointment to check on how the eardrum was healing he was given another hearing test that showed perfect hearing in the affected ear.

Maybe it was spontaneous recovery or maybe it was the fact that the eardrum had healed?Who knows but his hearing is fine to this day.

It is well known that having eardrum damaged will cause some loss. Your friend obviously had a mixture of temporary loss from eardrum damage and cochlea shock. It depends on how much of a hole the eardrum gained though to tell which was the main factor.

Also, where did he say that? I would really like to get his input on all of this, he obviously is very well informed.

@attheedgeofscience

 

[lymebite]

@Artemis2K

ATEOS provides his full story on his profile page (click the "Information" tab).

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/members/attheedgeofscience.1629/

Here is what he writes about stem cells:

Stem Cell Therapy

While I did benefit from LLLT in terms of a hearing improvement, the therapy did little for my tinnitus. After two months of therapy, I therefore decided to pursue other options. As mentioned earlier on, I knew tinnitus is considered incurable by the current medical establishment and so I had to look for uncommon therapies which had not been attempted before i.e. clinical trials or experimental therapies - essentially therapies at-the-edge-of-science. One day while doing research on the Internet, I somehow ended up reading about stem cell therapy. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but one way or another, I found a link to a youtube video featuring the unique story of Chloe Sohl who - so far - is the most successful stem cell recipient for the experimental treatment of hearing loss (presumably because her condition was triggered by an autoimmune disorder). She had regained most of her hearing from the treatment. But there was no mention of tinnitus in the video. I assumed that she probably had suffered from tinnitus as well (after losing almost all of her hearing). I decided to look into this a little further and I was fortunate to discover that her tinnitus improvement was pretty much equal to her hearing loss gain (i.e. approximately 90% improved some 2-3 months post stem cell injections). This was my most important lead and within a couple of weeks I had found and corresponded with three different stem cell clinics who would be willing to offer me a treatment similar to that of Chloe Sohl. I ended up doing two separate stem cell treatments roughly 5 months apart. I have shared my story for both trips (as a journal on this site) and also my reflections on stem cell therapy in general.

Result: Approximately 50% improvement in tinnitus loudness (both ears).

 

[Artemis2K]

Anyone claiming this success rate and charging these amounts immediately sets my scam alert off, because lots of weird clinics have promised high success rates with no complications for thousands of dollars, and in every other case that I'm aware of, they were full of shit.

$6,000 is a standard for stem cell treatments.

We have already gone over a lot about his legitimacy. What would you say about someone who has a lot of digital footprints to the point where you would know plenty about his past, his colleagues, his travels, and who he has visited? What would you say about someone who has appeared on Russian and Korean TV media, visited Heller Lab for stem cell research, is decently active on Korean social media, and obviously is a doctor?

If he was a fraud, he would be risking a lot. Downfall wouldn't even be avoidable. So, I have began to believe him.

 

[Artemis2K]

@Artemis2K

ATEOS provides his full story on his profile page (click the "Information" tab).

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/members/attheedgeofscience.1629/

Here is what he writes about stem cells:

Stem Cell Therapy

While I did benefit from LLLT in terms of a hearing improvement, the therapy did little for my tinnitus. After two months of therapy, I therefore decided to pursue other options. As mentioned earlier on, I knew tinnitus is considered incurable by the current medical establishment and so I had to look for uncommon therapies which had not been attempted before i.e. clinical trials or experimental therapies - essentially therapies at-the-edge-of-science. One day while doing research on the Internet, I somehow ended up reading about stem cell therapy. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but one way or another, I found a link to a youtube video featuring the unique story of Chloe Sohl who - so far - is the most successful stem cell recipient for the experimental treatment of hearing loss (presumably because her condition was triggered by an autoimmune disorder). She had regained most of her hearing from the treatment. But there was no mention of tinnitus in the video. I assumed that she probably had suffered from tinnitus as well (after losing almost all of her hearing). I decided to look into this a little further and I was fortunate to discover that her tinnitus improvement was pretty much equal to her hearing loss gain (i.e. approximately 90% improved some 2-3 months post stem cell injections). This was my most important lead and within a couple of weeks I had found and corresponded with three different stem cell clinics who would be willing to offer me a treatment similar to that of Chloe Sohl. I ended up doing two separate stem cell treatments roughly 5 months apart. I have shared my story for both trips (as a journal on this site) and also my reflections on stem cell therapy in general.

Result: Approximately 50% improvement in tinnitus loudness (both ears).

Thank you! I certainly would love to pick this guy's brain about all of this. If anyone had his direct contact, please consider linking him to this thread and asking him to message me. I have read in the past that he doesn't really keep an eye on his TT messages.

 

[linearb]

If he was a fraud, he would be risking a lot. Downfall wouldn't even be avoidable. So, I have began to believe him.

Well, perhaps I was a bit harsh with "scam radar". But, there is a wide spectrum of options between "total scam" and "100% as promised". Let's just say that if this technology is ever subjected to, you know, replication, I will be sort of astonished if he's vindicated in terms of having actually found a silver bullet which fixes tinnitus in nearly all people with no downsides.

My interest here is purely academic, though, thanks to @vaka -- my own hearing is excellent, and my only glitches are in the extremely high frequencies.

As for the "normal" price of stem cell therapies, I absolutely believe that a significant percentage -- perhaps, globally, a majority -- of stem cell clinics, are more on the scam side than the legit business side. There is not nearly enough data available to suggest the efficiency of stem therapies for the majority of conditions they are marketed for; therefore, the clinics offering them have more interest in profiteering off the sick and desperate than they do in performing rigorous scientific research.

 

[Stakovic]

@RaZaH @vaka

Me:

Thank you for your reply, It's awesome that more than 100 people got free tinnitus by your therapy. but the thing that I can not understand is why a lot of people still trying to treat their tinnitus with alternative therapies and they spend a lot of money without any success. why they didn't choose your clinic, is this a lack of advertising on your side?
Thank you in advance

His answer:
Dear stakovic,

This is a brand new method.

That's why.

You are right. We have to do more advertising.



Minbo Shim, Director of Cheongmin.

 

[vaka]

Me:

Thank you for your reply, It's awesome that more than 100 people got free tinnitus by your therapy. but the thing that I can not understand is why a lot of people still trying to treat their tinnitus with alternative therapies and they spend a lot of money without any success. why they didn't choose your clinic, is this a lack of advertising on your side?
Thank you in advance

His answer:
Dear stakovic,

This is a brand new method.

That's why.

You are right. We have to do more advertising.



Minbo Shim, Director of Cheongmin.

Seems like you have a good contact to him. Can you ask him - very cautiously - whether there are any papers related to this "brand new method"

Edit: *scientific papers

 

[Stakovic]

Can you ask him - very cautiously - whether there are any papers related to this "brand new method"

Done, I asked him, waiting for response

 

[lapidus]

ATEOS had laser therapy alongside his SC treatment,if anything he says it's important to do both simultaneously.

No, he did LLLT first. After his LLLT treatment he pursued stem cells.

 

[VRZ78]

Better to ask him why people are experiencing loss in high frequencies

 

[spingee]

there are really nobody who can contact some south korean citizen to check this clinic out?

 

[Artemis2K]

"
As you can see from my statistic analysis already posted at my site,

high frequencies were relatively hard to improve than mid or low frequencies.

But in my analysis, there were no aggravation of hearing losses in high frequencies.

I only posted a portions of the whole test results, but I did statistic analysis with the whole test results.

Maybe that's why there are some subtle differenes in the results for high frequencies.


You have to know the hair cells which sensing the high frequencies are very close to the oval window and round window,

so they can be already destroyed slightly by any harmful causes such as noise, even though in the case of which the patient's hearing test results shows within normal limits.


There were no cases who experienced aggravations of his/her tinnitus after getting our treatment."

This is from Minbo Shim.

 

[Artemis2K]

Well, perhaps I was a bit harsh with "scam radar". But, there is a wide spectrum of options between "total scam" and "100% as promised". Let's just say that if this technology is ever subjected to, you know, replication, I will be sort of astonished if he's vindicated in terms of having actually found a silver bullet which fixes tinnitus in nearly all people with no downsides.

My interest here is purely academic, though, thanks to @vaka -- my own hearing is excellent, and my only glitches are in the extremely high frequencies.

As for the "normal" price of stem cell therapies, I absolutely believe that a significant percentage -- perhaps, globally, a majority -- of stem cell clinics, are more on the scam side than the legit business side. There is not nearly enough data available to suggest the efficiency of stem therapies for the majority of conditions they are marketed for; therefore, the clinics offering them have more interest in profiteering off the sick and desperate than they do in performing rigorous scientific research.

I can understand why you would be skeptical. I still cannot get over astonishment myself. At one point I thought it was many years away, but now we are discussing whether or not it is here now. Very amazing.

As for the price, I once saw a video of a legitimate biologist talking on a news network about stem cell therapies, and the typical price from all of them, even the effective ones.

Dr. Minbo Shim also apparently offers 50% off discounts in October.

 

[vaka]

"
As you can see from my statistic analysis already posted at my site,

On which site did he post his statistic analysis? Within that video or are there any presentations/pdfs?

 

[Artemis2K]

On which site did he post his statistic analysis? Within that video or are there any presentations/pdfs?

Sorry, forgot to include. http://cmclinics.com/2016/05/25/hearing-tinnitus/

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

Don't forget the brain in this tinnitus dilemma. Fixing the hearing loss will not necessarily result in Tinnitus being fixed after overexcitability in parts of the brain becomes the normal. This is exhibited by removal of Acoustic Neuromas that often yield no benefit for tinnitus suffers. That's why I believe drug therapy and RTMS etc among other is the best chance for Tinnitus suffers.

 

[lolkas]

Don't forget the brain in this tinnitus dilemma. Fixing the hearing loss will not necessarily result in Tinnitus being fixed after overexcitability in parts of the brain becomes the normal. This is exhibited by removal of Acoustic Neuromas that often yield no benefit for tinnitus suffers. That's why I believe drug therapy and RTMS etc among other is the best chance for Tinnitus suffers.

Well, see brain has these "default" patterns that get altered by damage or whatever change, then we get Tinnitus (well, strictly talking about audotory system here).

After a while altered pattern becomes "default" and tgat is ehy we dont freak out on our T anymore since are used to it.

Now, pattern of all being in "norm" is still remembered by brain, so if ehatever missaligment caused T would be fixed - brain can reverse back. This is why some people get T to dissapear, but some who has too much damage - dont (in specific area).

 

[linearb]

is there... more information about exactly what this treatment entails? Like, any information? I have clicked around the site with google translate, but I still don't know anything besides "genetic therapy".

 

[VRZ78]

is there... more information about exactly what this treatment entails? Like, any information? I have clicked around the site with google translate, but I still don't know anything besides "genetic therapy".

He won't tell us his exact recipe but told us in was growth factors and stem cells.

 

[VRZ78]

There is actually a PDF presentation which contains the slides that are in the video but I can't find it anymore..
I think it was on the FB page...

 

[Rubenslash]

there are really nobody who can contact some south korean citizen to check this clinic out?

I know a Korean guy from my student exchange program a couple of years ago. I can contact him and ask if he can link us perhaps a Korean forum in which he is being discussed + a quick impression of him.

 

[lolkas]

I know a Korean guy from my student exchange program a couple of years ago. I can contact him and ask if he can link us perhaps a Korean forum in which he is being discussed + a quick impression of him.

That would be great!

 

[Artemis2K]

I know a Korean guy from my student exchange program a couple of years ago. I can contact him and ask if he can link us perhaps a Korean forum in which he is being discussed + a quick impression of him.

I actually did a lot of work trying to look Minbo Shim up on Naver, which is the Korean Google. Could not find anything very relevant. It was a pain in the butt too, because I had to translate my words into Korean before searching.