South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

[Rasmus]

NT3 is important for nerve health. It has shown to help repair synaptic damage of the ear by scientists. The ribbon synpase are important for communicating the inner ear to the haircells. Think of it as a wire/connector. If the ribbon synapse is damaged, hearing quality degrades especially speech, and there is evidence it may also be a cause of tinnitus.

However, there are various types of growth factors. I have no idea what Minbo Shim supposedly uses, but he takes from bone marrow and blood.

Anyway, I have just contacted South Korea's Ministry of Health & Welfare page. Hopefully they answer, and if they have information I will be one step closer to getting to bottom of this. Perhaps their answer could be the thing needed.

Thanks Sounds like good info ;D

 

[bill 112]

Well I just got off the phone with Shim,I can have the treatment in January and I'm needed there for 2 weeks to complete it.Total cost is $6000 with $1200 payed to secure my appointment(non-refundable).
What to do?My H is really bad so I know travel is going to be tough,I'm sitting here not knowing what to do.

 

[VRZ78]

Well I just got off the phone with Shim,I can have the treatment in January and I'm needed there for 2 weeks to complete it.Total cost is $6000 with $1200 payed to secure my appointment(non-refundable).
What to do?My H is really bad so I know travel is going to be tough,I'm sitting here not knowing what to do.

Did he assure you that it will improve your H ?
If after that you still have the money to do a stem cell treatment I'd say that maybe you should try to do the 2 treatments in one trip like you start your stem cell 3 weeks after Shim but you stay there between...

But if that would not allow you to get SC maybe wait until we know more about him or see if your H get better in the meantime so you can fly.

Maybe your worsening is temporary because you got a virus or idk you're not sick these days ?

It's a tough call.....

 

[Mentos]

Well I just got off the phone with Shim,I can have the treatment in January and I'm needed there for 2 weeks to complete it.Total cost is $6000 with $1200 payed to secure my appointment(non-refundable).
What to do?My H is really bad so I know travel is going to be tough,I'm sitting here not knowing what to do.

Did he disclose to you more details about which growth factors does he use at his treatment?

 

[bill 112]

Did he assure you that it will improve your H ?
If after that you still have the money to do a stem cell treatment I'd say that maybe you should try to do the 2 treatments in one trip like you start your stem cell 3 weeks after Shim but you stay there between...

But if that would not allow you to get SC maybe wait until we know more about him or see if your H get better in the meantime so you can fly.

Maybe your worsening is temporary because you got a virus or idk you're not sick these days ?

It's a tough call.....

He didn't assure me of anything,he knows I have T and H but still said he could treat me.I asked him if this could potentially help with synapse repair etc and I'm just waiting on an answer back.
If his results are true then it should,according to his results speech in noise improved for lots of his patients and according to Libermanns theory synapses and auditory nerves are responsible for hearing in backround noise.

When I asked him about his success with T he said that he had treated a few people whose main complaint was T,if they had obvious hearing loss then they were eligible for the treatment.

Lots of people reported lessening of their T with one woman claiming it to be totally gone,he also said seeing these results makes him feel great,like he's playing god with miracle healings.

So yeah,I don't know what to do,my H got worse randomly about two weeks ago,I'm thinking I overdone things as I can't see any other reason for it.

 

[bill 112]

Did he disclose to you more details about which growth factors does he use at his treatment?

No,he won't go into detail sadly.

 

[Foncky]

What to do?My H is really bad so I know travel is going to be tough,I'm sitting here not knowing what to do.

You will surely be able to book a A380 ticket, so a least the flight will be ok (it's like 60-65dB inside during the cruise, superior deck). But the whole travel is still a challenge obviously.

 

[bill 112]

You will surely be able to book a A380 ticket, so a least the flight will be ok (it's like 60-65dB inside during the cruise, superior deck). But the whole travel is still a challenge obviously.

It's going to be tough I know that much,it'll all be worth it if it works but what if it doesn't?Thats what I'm afraid of,travelling across the world straight into a scam.I just need more info on the guy and that he's genuine,the fact that he works in a state run hospital would suggest to me that he's somewhat genuine.Its hard to know.

 

[Foncky]

Don't forget what @wags said, it's the best opinion I've read about Shim so far :

There are a couple of things we do know, and I agree with what you're saying @bill 112

One of the most important tenants of the scientific method is creating results that are reproducible by others. Until Dr. Shim has had his technique verified by the extended medical community (which it seems he has has not), then his treatment is as clinically effective as banging your head against the wall. Even if it does "work", there is no guarantee that it will continue to work in 6 months, won't cause cancerous growths, won't make hearing worse later, or any other myriad complications that could come from an unstudied and guarded medical procedure such as this one.

I know a lot of us here are desperate and we feel a lot of pain (I myself have T that is umaskable and my own "ear fund"), but I'm highly advising anyone here to save their money. I know a lot of us spite the medical community, but there are reasons we put regulations on procedures and there is a method to the madness that Dr. Shim is not above.

Even if we know what kind of procedure he performs, there is no medical consensus on any treatment for hearing loss or tinnitus and as such the risk will stay the same.

Even if he says "I use X growth factor with Y stem cells injected into the Z" that means zero to us without the research backing it. In the end it's any individuals choice whether or not to proceed with the treatment, but nothing we find out will make this any "safer" or "sure" barring a full release of peer reviewed papers authored by Dr. Shim explaining the treatment in detail - and further validated studies from third parties that back his findings - and clinical trials that prove the efficacy of these results. I don't mean to be a debbie downer here and I was on board earlier in the thread, but after seeing more and more about him it's clear to me that we are not going to get the answers we want because they don't exist.

 

[bill 112]

Don't forget what @wags said, it's the best opinion I've read about Shim so far :

It's the truth,I had to completely agree with that comment.

Desperate people do desperate things I guess.

 

[Amber]

I suspect @Artemis2K is working with Dr. ShamShim. Artemis is the only one who is trying to make others believe the doctor is the real deal.

 

[VRZ78]

I don't know if the tests he does are speech recognition in silence or speech recognition in noise...

 

[Rubenslash]

Isn't there a Korean Tinnitus forum or something where he is being discussed as well.

 

[Artemis2K]

I suspect @Artemis2K is working with Dr. ShamShim. Artemis is the only one who is trying to make others believe the doctor is the real deal.

Where have I said that he was 100% legitimate? :/

That is an offensive and ignorant statement. If you want a bit of background about me, here: I am a 22-year-old libertarian autistic man about to try community college for mechatronics, just made scores in English Writing & Reading ACCUPlacer Tests at 107 and 101 scores with both under an hour. I intend to try online eBay resale while going to college and holding a job, which may be impossible.

I am cautiously optimistic about Shim, and desperately hopeful. I have been emailing so many people about him, not getting any answers, and I am starting to worry I may be breaking South Korean laws doing so.

 

[Mario martz]

Ok,I have to write this for all H and T sufferers to read.To me it is absolute confirmation that T and H are a direct result of small fibre neuropathy in our case peripharel/auditory neuropathy.

My H started in January 2014,there was no pain just a complete intolerance or sensitivity to sound.
I improved to nearly cured over the next two years when I began experiencing new symptoms,a burning stinging electric feeling in my neck and head.This symptom was intermittent at the time but it slowly and slowly progressed to where I collapsed entirely in January this year.The pain was all over my body now,my skin was sensitive to touch,my body stung and burned along with my head and face and my sensitivity had increased seven fold.

I went to my neuro and he started giving me all the nervous system malarkey but I knew in my heart he was wrong,that this was something a lot more sinister.I went to my audiologist who performed a hearing test on me and everything checked out,that was until he done a speech recognition test really loudly into my ears.I pulled the headset off and left there and then but my symptoms has now intensified 100 times worse.

I lay in a wreck at home,not knowing what the hell was happening me.Months had passed and I got somewhat better and of course I had to make some money to support myself so had no choice but to go back to work.I slowly worsened and worsened yet again to where my symptoms are all on overdrive as a result and I'm stuck in the mess where I am now.

I found a new neurologist and went to see him today,he done extensive tests on me throughout the day,my symptoms are as follows
-Hyperacusis
-Tinnitus
-Full body skin stinging and burning caused by sound
-Head stings and burns along with face(Trigeminal Neuralgia)
-Sensitive to touch,prickly skin feeling
-Vomiting
-Distortion
-Jaw pain
-Hot ears

And there's more.

Anyway here are the results,even the neuro was perplexed by the whole thing.

-Recent MRI was absolutely clear
-Blood tests came back normal(no diabetes)
-Cranial nerve tests,all nerves functioning normally,no lesions or damage as checked on recent MRI.
-Cognitive and brain functioning tests all normal
-Full body nerve tests,all normal
-No trapped nerves in neck or head,spine is straight.

He literally checked every single thing there is to check on me,and his diagnosis was idiopathic peripharel neuropathy.
That all my symptoms were textbook of peripharel neuropathy but that it was odd as from what he could tell all my peripharel nerves are functioning normally,there's been trauma to them,no diabetes or other nerve damaging conditions that could be causing this.
He then said"the only nerve that can be causing these symptoms that I can't objectively test is your auditory nerve,but your auditory nerve can't send out pain signals so that's impossible,that or your neuropathy is simply small and undetectable but considering the severity of your symptoms I don't believe that to be the case not to mention it's all triggered by sound"

I then showed him the recent research by Libermann and pain sensing fibres in the auditory nerve and he was amazed as he hadn't heard about it.
He just said"well that makes perfect sense now doesn't it,your next stop is an audiologist to get a BAR test done,if it's damaged I would imagine something would show up there"

Now,there's no way in hell I'm doing a BAR test,it's like firing a gun into your ears from what I heard so that will simply never happen with me not to mention how idiotic audiologists can be with H patients.

This was the first neuro who actually investigated me rather than push me out the door with TRT leaflets like they usually do,but to me at least it's only concreting my belief that this is from auditory neuropathy,not haircells or anything else other than the auditory nerve.

All my peripharel nerves and CNS system are working fine but yet I have peripharel neuropathy and the only nerve they can't objectively test is my auditory nerve.
They could see it on my scan and there are no lesions there or obvious trauma but the fact that my symptoms are consistent with that of small fibre neuropathy,it's simply undetectable from a scan and a much more accurate test is needed i.e the BAR.
He also done a few nerve blocks on my cranial nerves to ascertain whether they were causing it and none gave me any real relief,they made my head numb and yet I could still feel my body stinging regardless,according to him if let's say my trigeminal nerve was at fault a nerve block would stop all pain temporarily,but it didn't.

So make of that what you will but it's quite obvious to me now after these investigations that it could only be auditory nerve based.We've eliminated nearly everything now,everything except the auditory nerve.

Maybe redundant but.. have you been tested for Lyme?

 

[bill 112]

Maybe redundant but.. have you been tested for Lyme?

Yes,no Lymes disease as far as their aware.

How do they test for that anyway?I just gave blood samples from what I can remember.

 

[Mricha37]

Research news is what keeps me going. Even if it was a complete lie, if it gives me hope I don't care. Most people in here are older and at least got to live some life without tinnitus. I got no time without it so F all of you

 

[bill 112]

Research news is what keeps me going. Even if it was a complete lie, if it gives me hope I don't care. Most people in here are older and at least got to live some life without tinnitus. I got no time without it so F all of you

How old are you?Not like I got much of a go at life either,T started when I was 18 just about to start college,24 now with extreme H.

 

[Rubenslash]

There are many people here between 20 and 30 years old..

 

[Mricha37]

How old are you?Not like I got much of a go at life either,T started when I was 18 just about to start college,24 now with extreme H.

I'm 32 now. Got T in 2008. What eats me up is not the ringing, but the loud music that lead to it. So stupid. I'll say to the youngins, you will be fine but for sure your life will be taking a different path than you had planned. Whether it's good or bad is up to you.

But the people that are getting it recently are somewhat lucky, so much new info and research.

 

[bill 112]

I'm 32 now. Got T in 2008. What eats me up is not the ringing, but the loud music that lead to it. So stupid. I'll say to the youngins, you will be fine but for sure your life will be taking a different path than you had planned. Whether it's good or bad is up to you.

But the people that are getting it recently are somewhat lucky, so much new info and research.

Couldn't agree more with that last statement,the lack of knowledge or ignorance towards T here is mind boggling to say the least.

I know so many people here who have it but seeing as their old school and don't fully understand the science behind they just say things like"ahh sure it's just a thing in the brain,ignore it and keep going as normal"or"sure it's a mind over matter thing,if you don't listen to it it's not there"whilst they continue to go to concerts and gigs unprotected.

They're encouraged or led into this behaviour by T specialists here,it's painted as a brain thing that won't get worse unless you want it to be worse,that kind of thing.

Two of my uncles have T,one of them regularly fires shotguns and rifles without protection as he just simply isn't aware of how bad things can get.

 

[Anonymous2929]

Bullshit, most of you are lucky who just have T. I been deaf since birth (28 to be next week)....oh I also have T

 

[glynis]

Life just gets louder and for young ones loud music,computer games ,head sets,mobile phones,iPods ,silent discos with head sets and more.
Like my youngest son 21 who has his ear bones removed and hearing impaired still uses ear phones and head phones and goes to gigs and concerts,plays music loud and puts his hearing in danger a lot.
He knows how I suffer with bilateral tinnitus and Menieres and worry about his ears but he just carries on.
He also is epileptic and he's got the don't wrap me up in cotton wool approach and got a amazing job as a architect on a lot of money and drives a car and mild tinnitus.
Maybe his epilepsy medication helps him from tinnitus who knows but he is a very happy son and loves life so hope I never see him on here struggling with tinnitus as he won't be told
..lots of love glynis

 

[Mentos]

I'm 37 and indeed I had 35 years without T behind me, but my life so far was quite fucked-up with lots of turmoil including divorce, depression etc. 2 years ago when it seemed my life is finally on a right track with new wife, new house and a good job I decided to enyoj my life to the fullest and went to that bloody death metal gig which turned my life upside down again... So @Mricha37 don't feel offended but no matter what age we all suffer the same and we all hoped for a different quality of lives than we got due to T.

 

[Mricha37]

Bullshit, most of you are lucky who just have T. I been deaf since birth (28 to be next week)....oh I also have T

Dude, that sucks so bad. I'm sorry about your situation. My younger brother is deaf from birth, he has no T though as his is not Cochlea related.

 

[Mricha37]

They're trying it with gene therapy from what I've read,genes or a virus that will bring NT-3 to its desired target rather than shotgunning it by just injecting NT-3 into the cochlea.

Bill, so what coming up trials and research would you put your money on?

 

[bill 112]

Bill, so what coming up trials and research would you put your money on?

It's difficult to say but noise induced T/H won't be cured through pharma that's my bet.

I constantly hear of this drug and that drug for T but it's irrelevant,it's only going to give people a reduction in T until tolerance kicks in like Valium and then your back to square one again.

Like anything the root cause must be treated or repaired anything other than that is simply masking the problem.

Stemcells is where it's at,I've said this since day one and will continue to do so.

Drugs have the potential to restore hearing by turning supporting cells into haircells but we have no idea what losing supporting cells would mean,Stemcells can find exactly where the damage occurred by locating the glial scar and then repairing itself exactly where the damage is and that sits well with me.Its the same with the auditory nerve and synapses the only way we will ever repair that is by Stemcells and nothing else.

Just look up Stemcells synapse repair/auditory nerve repair etc and it's blatantly obvious that Stemcells can and do repair these damages in the lab,no drug is going to repair someone with MS only relieve some of the symptoms.

For people with stress induced T Stemcells have shown to calm overactive neurons in mice with epilepsy so why not T?

I'm a complete Stemcells advocate as you can tell,no other treatment really interests me at this point.

 

[SilverSpiral]

It's difficult to say but noise induced T/H won't be cured through pharma that's my bet.

I constantly hear of this drug and that drug for T but it's irrelevant,it's only going to give people a reduction in T until tolerance kicks in like Valium and then your back to square one again.

Like anything the root cause must be treated or repaired anything other than that is simply masking the problem.

Stemcells is where it's at,I've said this since day one and will continue to do so.

Drugs have the potential to restore hearing by turning supporting cells into haircells but we have no idea what losing supporting cells would mean,Stemcells can find exactly where the damage occurred by locating the glial scar and then repairing itself exactly where the damage is and that sits well with me.Its the same with the auditory nerve and synapses the only way we will ever repair that is by Stemcells and nothing else.

Just look up Stemcells synapse repair/auditory nerve repair etc and it's blatantly obvious that Stemcells can and do repair these damages in the lab,no drug is going to repair someone with MS only relieve some of the symptoms.

For people with stress induced T Stemcells have shown to calm overactive neurons in mice with epilepsy so why not T?

I'm a complete Stemcells advocate as you can tell,no other treatment really interests me at this point.

Since they are working on viruses that secrete nt-3, but have found that injecting such viruses into the middle ear have been damaging as their targetting is not specific to the synapses, do you think that by the time they develop a virus that will secrete nt-3 only to the correct synapses, it may be taken orally?

 

[bill 112]

Since they are working on viruses that secrete nt-3, but have found that injecting such viruses into the middle ear have been damaging as their targetting is not specific to the synapses, do you think that by the time they develop a virus that will secrete nt-3 only to the correct synapses, it may be taken orally?

Impossible to say Spiral as I'm not that educated on the whole Gene delivery thing.How they come up with a solution is up to them.

 

[Mentos]

Life just gets louder and for young ones loud music,computer games ,head sets,mobile phones,iPods ,silent discos with head sets and more.
Like my youngest son 21 who has his ear bones removed and hearing impaired still uses ear phones and head phones and goes to gigs and concerts,plays music loud and puts his hearing in danger a lot.
He knows how I suffer with bilateral tinnitus and Menieres and worry about his ears but he just carries on.
He also is epileptic and he's got the don't wrap me up in cotton wool approach and got a amazing job as a architect on a lot of money and drives a car and mild tinnitus.
Maybe his epilepsy medication helps him from tinnitus who knows but he is a very happy son and loves life so hope I never see him on here struggling with tinnitus as he won't be told
..lots of love glynis

Hi Glynis, do you mean your son has mild tinnitus but still enjoys his life and have succesfull work? If so than I'm happy for him that he manages his mild T that good. How did he acquire it, noise induced or did he always have it?