South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

#782
Foncky said:
Yes this paper is quite good news.

@Artemis2K I don't think we can compare Shim and Frequency TX's expertise... And Frequency won't talk for Shim's growth factors.
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The objective isn't really to compare their expertise, but rather analyze the potential of growth factors and the downsides. Shim's expertise is hardly relevant in this case. FreqTX moved on from growth factor for a reason, and I just want to learn more about why, from other than what the article provided.
 
#783
Artemis2K said:
just want to learn more about why, from other than what the article provided.
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They moved on from earlier published research because their new approach is much more effective. Doesn't seem like there would need to be another reason, but if there is, why do you think they would tell you?

You don't seem to understand that it's not possible to know what is going on unless you know what Shim is doing., and he has made it clear he isn't going to say. So there is no way that you or anyone else can know how what he is doing might affect anything else.
 
#784
That was my point, thank you.

We're talking about Shim here. So if we don't know what growth factors he uses, it's really useless to ask Frequency about growth factors (in this thread's context).
 
#785
I guess my main question right now is, how many effective growth factors could there actually be? I don't expect much of a variety.

I want to know how inferior the growth factors are, and whether or not the downsides are really much of a fuss. The support cell things do not sound much of a problem to me, since in their natural state they are forever dormant and useless after damage anyway.

I also highly doubt that the growth factors would nuke the opportunity for the new treatment, since supposedly it can often take multiple treatments for people who have a lot of damage to have great effect. If it can take multiple treatments, then obviously there are still a lot of support cells around, plenty for the new treatment to use.

Whichever works for me. I am still going to be saving money for whichever ends up being the best... and closest. (Well, I intend on saving money anyway so I can start a small online business) I am still concerned that the new treatment would not be an option for people with mild hearing loss. My hearing and tinnitus issues have made me depressed, impatient, and easily tempered, so I would welcome an opportunity to get rid of it. I used to be a happy-go-lucky person who enjoyed music, reading, philosophy, and video games... but now I hate just about everything. So, my obsession over this is because I want to be the person I used to be, and actually lead the life I want.

Also, if Shim ends up being a scam, at least it would be fun to watch his scheme fall apart. But, I have no idea, and although I have seen many clues where I think he is honest and believe him, I still want to gather all information and make sure.
 
#786
The only situation to know if shin minbo is a good ent or a scam...is try ! If somepeople have the possibility of try should be very important for him and for all the forum ! Thanks
 
#787
The King said:
The only situation to know if shin minbo is a good ent or a scam...is try ! If somepeople have the possibility of try should be very important for him and for all the forum ! Thanks
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Uh, no. The best way is to gather intel. Though I do want to go to South Korea and possibly meet a lot of Asian women and be absorbed in the culture and scenery... I am not going to be an ignorant guinea pig at a controversial mystery clinic.

I am saving money to use for when I am 24-25. I thought I could save up to $20,000 in a year earlier based on how promising some of my business ideas were, but that was naive. I need a good computer for that, which I lack. It's just not possible with my tablet, which I am already lazy with my writing on anyway.
 
#788
Artemis2K said:
If it can take multiple treatments, then obviously there are still a lot of support cells around, plenty for the new treatment to use.
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You are making an assumption that whatever he is doing is affecting supporting cells, and there isn't enough information to draw this conclusion.
 
#789
Aaron123 said:
You are making an assumption that whatever he is doing is affecting supporting cells, and there isn't enough information to draw this conclusion.
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I agree, there is for sure not enough information. But given that my finding about Minbo Shim using IGF-1 is correct and complete, it will not affect supporting cells. IGF-1 does not induce some kind of transformation of supporting cells into hair cells as far as i have understood.

Here is the quote to my post about shim using IGF-1
vaka said:
I think I have found out, what he is doing.
In this picture (date: 2016-06-21) in the russian Facebook presentation of the clinic he says "there is hope" for hearing loss with IGF-1.



From what I have understood in some papers, IGF-1 is the "Insulin-like growth factor 1" and is linked to two pathways in the cochlea which promote the restoration of not-yet dead hair cells.

I will state the titles of the papers here only, because I am not allowed to copy them (copyright violation). When you have university access, you can access them for sure.

The first paper shows the general importance of IGF1 in the cochlea and the second paper shows the results of IGF1 treatment after sudden sensinoiral hearing loss. Both papers are directly shown in his facebook post:
1: Cediel, Rafael, et al. "Sensorineural hearing loss in insulin‐like growth factor I‐null mice: a new model of human deafness." European Journal of Neuroscience 23.2 (2006): 587-590.
2: Nakagawa, Takayuki, et al. "Audiometric outcomes of topical IGF1 treatment for sudden deafness refractory to systemic steroids." Otology & neurotology 33.6 (2012): 941-946.

By using google scholar i have found a new review paper about IGF1 which recaps the effect of IGF-1 on cochlear cells. In short, it says that IGF-1 was found to be safe to use and effective in HC protection and regeneration of not dead HCs:
Yamahara, Kohei, et al. "Insulin-like growth factor 1: a novel treatment for the protection or regeneration of cochlear hair cells." Hearing research 330 (2015): 2-9.

I think he is using IGF1 but it is still unclear what he is doing else. Because in this picture he is saying, the methods are: blood, fatty tissue and tubinate). Maybe he is using this as gel?

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#794
Penate said:
I know the answer, 5 to 10 years, and next year 5 to 10 years and next year the same and on and on and on..........................................................
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???? I asked them if the previous destruction of supportive cells will have an impact on the treatment....
Their treatment wont be out for at least 8 years that's for sure.
 
#795
Hello Everyone,

I am new and found this site while searching for Stem Cell Therapy.
I read all 35 pages from At The Edge of Science when he went to Bangkok and I feel good about Stem Cell Therapy.
I don't have the cash for Bangkok but this S. Korea thing has me very interested. I would totally volunteer if the cash was available. I didn't lose hearing but I have a very high pitch sound and it's hard. I just spoke with my family and I will begin to save money for this. If this can cut my Tinnitus by 50% I would be so happy. Anyways back to reading and look forward to this Science developing!!
 
#796
Ivanskis said:
Hello Everyone,

I am new and found this site while searching for Stem Cell Therapy.
I read all 35 pages from At The Edge of Science when he went to Bangkok and I feel good about Stem Cell Therapy.
I don't have the cash for Bangkok but this S. Korea thing has me very interested. I would totally volunteer if the cash was available. I didn't lose hearing but I have a very high pitch sound and it's hard. I just spoke with my family and I will begin to save money for this. If this can cut my Tinnitus by 50% I would be so happy. Anyways back to reading and look forward to this Science developing!!
Click to expand...
I didn't lose hearing either but I have a high pitch sound too so you are not alone :)
 
#797
Rasmus said:
I didn't lose hearing either but I have a high pitch sound too so you are not alone
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Why do you say that you havent lost any hearing ? If your T is above or around 8 khz it will not show up on this incredibly outdated hearing test , unless you got tested higher , and then still its inaccurate.
 
#798
In 1987 I had surgery on my right ear as I had a hole in my ear drum. I lost majority of my hearing on that ear. My left ear is my only good one. Although I have a high pitch I can still hear like I have in the past.
I have my hearing test today and will let you know my results.
 
#799
RaZaH said:
Why do you say that you havent lost any hearing ? If your T is above or around 8 khz it will not show up on this incredibly outdated hearing test , unless you got tested higher , and then still its inaccurate.
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I can only go with my test, i have been testet in and no hearing loss there :/ maybe i have in higher i dont know, but in my test i dont have hearing loss
 
#800
#802
Zok said:
Would like to ask a few questions if not a problem.

So did anyone had sucess with this treatment? I guess it has something to do with https://www.ata.org/news/news/new-s...ion-method-restores-damaged-auditory-pathways.

And if I understand correctly, the injection goes through ear drum and if is how long does it takes to heal? I mean is it worth the risk.
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It is primarily based on growth factor, and nobody has gone there yet. A lot of people are not sure of its honesty, and are looking for more information before considering it. I don't think anyone is questioning the science of it, just the honesty of Minbo Shim. It's a lot to go through, and is somewhat confusing, so everyone is just waiting until specific information comes in before thinking about it.

I personally think he is genuine, and have spent at least a few dozen hours in total trying to learn about him, but there are still very valid questions that need to be answered. However, I don't have much time looking anymore due to college, and I would prefer not to invest any time while I am under serious stress, so I cannot add much to the discussion for now.

All will come to the surface in time.

Also, yes, it says it is done through ear drum, and supposedly it would take within a week for results. But don't immediately think he's THE answer, there is still a lot that needs to be learned.
 
#803
Zok said:
Would like to ask a few questions if not a problem.

So did anyone had sucess with this treatment? I guess it has something to do with https://www.ata.org/news/news/new-s...ion-method-restores-damaged-auditory-pathways.

And if I understand correctly, the injection goes through ear drum and if is how long does it takes to heal? I mean is it worth the risk.
Click to expand...

I am not too clued up on the whole process but from what I understand, there are 2 parts to the treatment. The first part is the injection through the eardrum for the growth factor and the second is the stem cells which are injected intravenously through a vein in your arm for example. The hope is the growth factor injected in the eardrum would eventually reach the site of your dead hair cells and the stem cells would then reach that site and begin repair. I think that is the gist of growth factor treatment which I believe is the treatment the forum member ATEOS had and what Mimbo Shim does.

The article you linked to from the ATA website is where researchers injected stem cells directly into the auditory nerve without damaging it and found this was more effective that the above method I assume where many stem cells die or fail to reach the auditory nerve/hair cells.

Not sure on the exact approach Frequency Therapeutics are using but I think it's the same as Mimbo but modified and the recent news of the researchers they are working with which makes their approach a lot more effective is very interesting. I guess the only thing we can do is hope Frequency Therapeutics are onto a winner and I sure hope they are
 
#804
I know that stem periferial blood works for cartilage repair, no need for growt factors.

Through blood, it is a bit strange, as stem cells are naturally found and extracted from blood. I think Neupogene or something like it increases the stem(progenitor) cells in blood.

And pretty much no stem cell will see the middle ear.

Maybe add it in the blod vessel that goes to ear, but that is still not exactly natural way to transport such cells.
 
#806
Everytime I read an adverse effect about stem cells it's always people going blind... So I suggest that injecting stem cells in the eye is not safe. I don't think this can happen with IV injections. Also from cases I read it can create lung problems for elderly people.

And if we want to get cured now we have to take some risks... For the safe way we need to wait for official treatment, it shouldn't be that long now if all goes well but still.
 
#807
It's not an adverse effect in this case, things just went south and no one knew exactly what they were doing...

So I wonder if the same scenario is possible with us : you receive a stem cells treatment to reduce your moderate/severe hearing loss (middle ear injection through the eardrum) and you go deaf...

IV injections are probably safer but less efficient.
 
#808
Foncky said:
It's not an adverse effect in this case, things just went south and no one knew exactly what they were doing...

So I wonder if the same scenario is possible with us : you receive a stem cells treatment to reduce your moderate/severe hearing loss (middle ear injection through the eardrum) and you go deaf...

IV injections are probably safer but less efficient.
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Yeah probably, I've never heard of that though. And here the stem cells are not injected in the ear
 
#809
I mean...both eyes at once lol.

After a decade of animal testing, the large companies starting the hearing regenerating clinical trials on humans I feel will fare much better.
 

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