Member- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
Coleoptere
Member
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Russian is my native. What do you want to know? I translated important part from the video. Rest of information isn't impornant for us (about cancer treatment, Russian medicine etc.)
Want me to connect with Khabarovsk clinic and check if Russian doctors could apply Minbo's method there?
Yes!
And also, what do you make of the rest of that video from Russia? What's the overall topic?
Arseny
Member
- Nov 1, 2018
- 283
- Tinnitus Since
- 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Possibly from problems with blood flow
@humptydumpty69 @Artemis2K @Coleoptere @JohnAdams
0:00-0:15 Khabarovsk and Chuong Min clinic??? signed an agreement to work together with the goal to provide education for Russian doctors.
0:15-0:45 Information about medial tourism
0:45-0:58 Delegation from South Korea came and they are going to be meeting Russian doctors for 2 days. The South Korean doctors are going to acquaintance themselves with Russian doctors. From what I understand it's just a meet and greet for 2 days and no education yet. It was arranged by health ministries of Russia and South Korea.
0:58 They show a video of a man in glasses. His name is Choi Zhune Hi? Чой Чжун Хи. He's a director of "Institute for development of health care industry" in South Korea.
0:58-1:17 This is a government level program. This program suggests visits Korean professors and "world class doctors" from the best Korean clinics to Khabarovsk. They will have lectures and practice. Russian doctors will visit Korean clinics.
1:17-2:55 Not related to hearing and tinnitus whatsoever. More about medical tourism and that Russian clinics are getting better and almost got to the level of the clinics from South Korea, but there are several treatments that are still unavailable in Russia.
2:55 They show the doctor Minbo Shim.
2:55-3:12 "We have integrated new technologies for hearing loss recovery. Our doctors learned how to control the regeneration process of cells and tissue. (He doesn't say what cells and what tissue) We can restore hearing even in most severe cases. Today we have patients coming to us from all over the world including eastern parts of Russia."
3:12-3:20 Doctors from other countries are ready to provide the treatment (they don't say which one, I think it's mostly related to medical tourism) and government (I think Russian government) is ready to pay for the treatment if it's life saving.
3:20-3:37 You can get medical examinations done (cancer related) for 500$ in Khabarovsk. It think they mean that the cost itself (for the clinic) is 500$. I assume you will have to pay more money on top of that. But in South Korea same test will cost you about 1500$. So it makes more sense to teach Russian doctors in South Korean clinics and provide tests and treatments "at home" (in Russia).
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Sure, why not? The more options the better. I wouldn't go to Russia myself though... lol.
Sorry, I got you confused with someone else before I double checked. It happens lol.
So Minbo Shim was established enough to be a part of a country sponsored medical training event and helped Russian patients? That's fascinating. Definitely relevant to this discussion. Thank you.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Can someone help me figure out what this organization and his association? http://cmclinics.com/2017/02/17/joined-as-a-authorized-clinic-for-stem-cell-regeration-treatment/
humptydumpty69
Member
So that video seems legitamate, though I don't really know what the further translation tells us.
They are training their doctors in Korean methods, and evidently Shim's method is relevant to them. I gathered that they are trying to lessen medical tourism? And to do the procedures in Russia instead of Korea?
Regardless, I think speculation on the efficacy of Shim's patent is still our best approach. Hopefully @lymebite is able to find something.
They are training their doctors in Korean methods, and evidently Shim's method is relevant to them. I gathered that they are trying to lessen medical tourism? And to do the procedures in Russia instead of Korea?
Regardless, I think speculation on the efficacy of Shim's patent is still our best approach. Hopefully @lymebite is able to find something.
Arseny
Member
- Nov 1, 2018
- 283
- Tinnitus Since
- 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Possibly from problems with blood flow
This is his Russian patent for the treatment. You can right click in Chrome and press "Translate to English"
http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/265/2657828.html
It seems that the treatment is conducted with intratympanic injections of "platelet-rich plasma" that's drawn from your blood + Dexamethasone.
Subsequently, local anesthesia of the eardrum was performed in each subject with the help of Emla Cream 5% (AstraZeneca, Korea).
Approximately 10 ml to 20 ml of blood was taken from the subject's vein. A blood tube containing an anticoagulant was used to collect blood. The collected blood was centrifuged at room temperature for approximately 5 minutes at a speed of 4200 rpm. Approximately 3 ml to 4 ml of a middle layer with a high platelet count was obtained from centrifuged blood to prepare PRP. The resulting PRP had a viscosity from about 2 mPa⋅s to 3 mPa⋅s (micro VISC, RHEOSENSE, INC.).
Immediately after receiving PRP, from about 3 ml to 4 ml of the obtained PRP was divided into 3 or 4 1 ml syringes, and then each 1 ml was injected into the tympanic cavities of the subject's both ears at 30-minute intervals.
PRP was incubated at room temperature for about 15 to 25 minutes after receiving PRP. Viscosity of the incubated PRP was approximately 12 mPa⋅s to 14 mPa⋅s. Approximately 0.5 ml to 1 ml of PRP was injected into the tympanic cavities of both ears of the subject.
When using this method, PRP was administered twice a week, six times in total. Of all six times, PRP was administered the first three times, and the other three were injected dexamethasone (Jeil Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd.), with 1 ml of dexamethasone injected into the tympanic cavities of both ears of the subject, and then PRP was also injected.
Approximately 2-120 days after the initial administration of PRP, a tone audiometric test was performed as described in (1). To analyze the data obtained as a result of the test and to evaluate the differences between the indicators before the introduction and after the introduction, the SPSS WIN 18.0 program was used at each frequency and the Student's t-test was determined.
The results of the left and right ear audiometric tests are presented in Tables 1 and 2, respectively, and in FIG. 1 and 2 are graphs, respectively.
The results of the treatment:
The first column is frequency. Numbers are audiogram results in db. Numbers on the left are before (До введения second column Среднее), and on the right are after (После введения fourth column Среднее). The other numbers are "standard deviation" (Среднеквадратическое отклонение). I don't know what t and p numbers mean.
http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/265/2657828.html
It seems that the treatment is conducted with intratympanic injections of "platelet-rich plasma" that's drawn from your blood + Dexamethasone.
Subsequently, local anesthesia of the eardrum was performed in each subject with the help of Emla Cream 5% (AstraZeneca, Korea).
Approximately 10 ml to 20 ml of blood was taken from the subject's vein. A blood tube containing an anticoagulant was used to collect blood. The collected blood was centrifuged at room temperature for approximately 5 minutes at a speed of 4200 rpm. Approximately 3 ml to 4 ml of a middle layer with a high platelet count was obtained from centrifuged blood to prepare PRP. The resulting PRP had a viscosity from about 2 mPa⋅s to 3 mPa⋅s (micro VISC, RHEOSENSE, INC.).
Immediately after receiving PRP, from about 3 ml to 4 ml of the obtained PRP was divided into 3 or 4 1 ml syringes, and then each 1 ml was injected into the tympanic cavities of the subject's both ears at 30-minute intervals.
PRP was incubated at room temperature for about 15 to 25 minutes after receiving PRP. Viscosity of the incubated PRP was approximately 12 mPa⋅s to 14 mPa⋅s. Approximately 0.5 ml to 1 ml of PRP was injected into the tympanic cavities of both ears of the subject.
When using this method, PRP was administered twice a week, six times in total. Of all six times, PRP was administered the first three times, and the other three were injected dexamethasone (Jeil Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd.), with 1 ml of dexamethasone injected into the tympanic cavities of both ears of the subject, and then PRP was also injected.
Approximately 2-120 days after the initial administration of PRP, a tone audiometric test was performed as described in (1). To analyze the data obtained as a result of the test and to evaluate the differences between the indicators before the introduction and after the introduction, the SPSS WIN 18.0 program was used at each frequency and the Student's t-test was determined.
The results of the left and right ear audiometric tests are presented in Tables 1 and 2, respectively, and in FIG. 1 and 2 are graphs, respectively.
The results of the treatment:
The first column is frequency. Numbers are audiogram results in db. Numbers on the left are before (До введения second column Среднее), and on the right are after (После введения fourth column Среднее). The other numbers are "standard deviation" (Среднеквадратическое отклонение). I don't know what t and p numbers mean.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Did you see the fees?!! 8 to 10k. Arizona is a haven of seniors and wealthy people where many can afford this type of "holistic" therapy for "wellness" and cosmetic reasons. I don't see anything of how it helps hearing loss or tinnitus and may be a ploy drawing those with prebycusis there, and likely requires yearly follow ups$$$$. Not covered by health ins.
What's the difference of their formulation to Dr. Minbo's? Injecting into the inner ear through round window into the cochlea? (which will require local or general anesthesia). My guess it will create immediate fullness creating possible temp. hearing loss until absorption hence the number of days of stay for monitoring. Can't go on a flight with an ear full of fluid and may require temp. p.e tubes?
I'm confused about the Vit. D. Does the formula have an interaction in depleting further Vit. D, correlated to the bone/cartilage in the ear?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Are you talking about the low vitamin D thing? Shim corrected me when I asked, and it isn't the case. Low vitamin D is fine. Bad for your health in general, but fine for this treatment.
Thanks for clarifying. I think most of us have low Vit. D in general, except those in Arizona
I'm also perplexed if these injections are in middle or inner ear. If it's in middle ear, how would that help overall, as it cannot get absorbed into the inner ear area, as well as may leak out the eustachian tube? It sounds like a method to produce healthier biofilm within the middle ear which is gaining more recognition.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Thanks for clarifying. I think most of us have low Vit. D in general, except those in Arizona
I'm also perplexed if these injections are in middle or inner ear. If it's in middle ear, how would that help overall, as it cannot get absorbed into the inner ear area, as well as may leak out the eustachian tube? It sounds like a method to produce healthier biofilm within the middle ear.
There is a "simulation" on this video
Nope. Fx322 is injected into the middle ear and they have shown that it does seep into the inner ear via the round window membrane.
I don't think that's possible unless you have a fistula rupture in either of the oval and round membranes, otherwise both are quite pliant barriers? I may be wrong... it's just that I didn't think they were penetrable unless by a needle etc.
humptydumpty69
Member
I dunno Man, you're talking about the efficacy of Stem Cell now. As far as pricing, that is reasonable compared to plenty of these alternative procedures. I'm really not that familiar with with that clinic's procedures; all I know is quoted from that email.
As far as the difference in procedure, we are all trying to asses Shim's procedure now, perhaps you can take a look at his patent as well as see if you have input. I believe that Shim retracted his thoughts on Vitamin D in a recent Skype statement.
humptydumpty69
Member
I haven't looked through the Russian patent yet, for those who have or are, I wonder if there are differences in the USA pending patent?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
The whole Vitamin D came from me. That was my error. I misinterpreted what he said. I also cannot access our conversation since I shut down the email address after being spammed by bots.
humptydumpty69
Member
Well that's too bad because they have already proven it can. Get up on your research.
I'd rather have a true scientist willing and trying to seek a biological formulation cure to heal our ears where the source of the problem is, rather than towards the alarming trend with Neurology electrical gadgets. The concept of all these computer electrical technical devices for long term dependent temporary relief, while concurrently gaining access to people's brains bothers me a great deal. Personally, I wouldn't want them messing with mine any further.
humptydumpty69
Member
@Arseny,
Unfortunately my H is too bad to turn the volume up loud enough on this video to discern, but I think it is Russian too? Perhaps you could tell us if there is anything of relevance or importance? Thank you for your help Arseny, we appreciate it.
If that was the case, while people are snuffing nasal sprays and pouring salt formulas up the eustachian tubes, all of them would be having drastic vestibular outcomes from it being absorbed into the inner ear if the round window was open in the way you say it is. Wouldn't it?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
humptydumpty69
Member
It has English subtitles. You can mute.
Oh jeeze, I thought they were bullets and not verbatim. Thanks Arti, nevermind @Arseny
They are permeable. That's how intratympanic injections work: the needle is just used to perforate the ear drum and deposit the chemical by the window to the cochlea.
When I did mine, the doctor told me to keep a certain orientation of my head for 10-15 minutes to make sure the compound would have the highest efficacy in penetration.
I suspect it depends on the compound and how easy it can traverse the membrane.
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