MemberIt doesnt matter, it is already an established medical fact that drugs injected into the middle ear do in fact diffuse into the middle ear. This is true for fx322 and antibiotics. Please go get your facts straight. I'm not just making this up.
South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
A few thoughts from running this by a well-informed MD, though I think most of these probably have already been discussed in some depth one way or the other either in this thread or over on MPP.
- would the patent office consider this a drug and kick it over to the FDA?
- why would someone even seek a patent in the first place on autologous PRP? Is the PRP prepared in a unique way different than how the many others already preparing PRP are doing it?
- the pure tone audiometry improvements seem fairly modest. But if they are statistically significant, even modest improvements are welcome. But, seems unclear if the changes were lasting?
- PRP conceivably might help partially damaged hair cells via growth factors, but seems unclear how it could result in further regeneration of the auditory nerve?
- unclear if patients received dexamethasone, if they did that may account for improvements?
- are the tinnitus improvements quantified and documented in some way?
Perhaps for those Skyping with Dr. Minbo Shim, some questions that could be added to the list.
- would the patent office consider this a drug and kick it over to the FDA?
- why would someone even seek a patent in the first place on autologous PRP? Is the PRP prepared in a unique way different than how the many others already preparing PRP are doing it?
- the pure tone audiometry improvements seem fairly modest. But if they are statistically significant, even modest improvements are welcome. But, seems unclear if the changes were lasting?
- PRP conceivably might help partially damaged hair cells via growth factors, but seems unclear how it could result in further regeneration of the auditory nerve?
- unclear if patients received dexamethasone, if they did that may account for improvements?
- are the tinnitus improvements quantified and documented in some way?
Perhaps for those Skyping with Dr. Minbo Shim, some questions that could be added to the list.
Oh I know! I didn't say you were making it up. My inquiry is not meant to be confrontational.
Since they say it does occur, it makes one wonder if people unknowingly have been damaging their ears overtime by certain nasal sprays of drying ototoxic chemicals destructing healthy natural biofilm and other fine cilia hair within their sinuses, eustachian tubes onto middle ear? Seems the formula's goal is to help replenish back the healthy natural biofilm, which helps with hearing. (Same concept w/ the gut). Due to climate change a lot of people have become sicker all over the place respiratory wise, using a lot of decongestant over-counter meds. (& having no idea of it's Phama chemical compound). Cause and effect... developing T.
In that case I wonder if this would work if one used nasalspray of a fx322 or a prp formula, 3x a day overtime for any progress? What would the difference be between that vs injection? A thought.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
The treatments aren't necessary instant, but you gradually notice improvement over time. Several audiographs show him do tests after a month with differences being 10-20 dBs. Based on that, it being temporary is a bit hard to believe, and I don't see how a temporary regeneration would make sense. Though, you could say it IS temporary if you don't take care of your ears from now on. Though we can't exactly validate his testimonials, as he apparently has a privacy policy, there have been several testimonials of people who lost some of the tinnitus intensity. A sports shooter, for example.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Though, one thing I've wondered is about the durability of regenerated hair cells and surrounding areas. After treatment, are the repaired areas as strong as untreated and undamaged ear, or are the structures in a comparatively weaker state? Perhaps I am overthinking it, but I worry that we'd need to be extra extra careful to the ear compared to a normal person. Does that make sense, and is that logical?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
@sakrt I feel that's something that could have happened to me, my ears were more sensitive, those nasal sprays can irritate the middle ear.
humptydumpty69
Member
I'm just trying to answer a bit with conjecture. I believe that the PRP being prepared a unique way is most of what is going on here. The patent describes viscosity that is moving slowly and able to touch anatomy for longer amounts of time. Also, I believe he uses some stem cell as well as vitamins and like you said possibly dexamethasone in combination. I'm not sure if it counts that he had an option for IV treatment listed as well. So whatever his cocktail is, I believe that is thought to be unique. Although it seemed like there were many possibilities as to what the treatment could have been, anywhere from the quantity, frequency, and composition of the treatment. If what I am saying is accurate, I would be very curious to know if/how he tailors the treatment to the individual.
He has said that some of the treatment results reverted and were not lasting in response to our small community Skype questionaire.
If the PRP could repair hair cells, but potentially not the auditory nerve, would the patient still have improvement of hearing? Many of us have only damaged hair cells and not nerve damage, correct? Or does it almost always correlate?
"Since PRP having a high viscosity is slowly discharged from the ear, the PRP may contact nerve cells in the inner ear for a long time. The nerve cells in the inner ear may be regenerated by the PRP."
It seems to me that the ideal candidates for this treatment would be similar to those for LLLT; near time of injury, hyperacusis, damaged and not dead cells, and therefore minimal hearing loss. I would say high frequency damage is a candidate since it is often the first to be damaged, but we still have anomalies with the HF results from this treatment. There is potential for HF damage with this treatment, and it is unclear why. I believe he sad that more treatment was the resolution for this? @Artemis2K, could you confirm?
When I first got my tinnitus, my ENT recommended me a steroid nasal spray. I only used it twice but the next day my tinnitus was way worse and never went back down.
Much better I agree... I wish we could get a translation for the videos!!
https://www.solsam.co.kr/?p=ear
The new YouTube videos can auto generate English subtitles. They are bad, but they get the point across I think.
humptydumpty69
Member
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Anybody knows about what he is talking about? Like a clinic in Germany who gives ear injections for 75000€ to treat Meniere's disease for Hollywood stars??
He's saying they took some blood from him and centrifuged it before reinjecting him... also said it was not allowed to do in USA. Made me think about Minbo's technique.
- Oct 17, 2017
- 646
- Tinnitus Since
- 2005
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknown - possibly hereditary
@JohnAdams are you actually going to have this treatment? Or are you just fooling all of us and making us excited for your pleasure...?
I'm sure @JohnAdams has no needs to be fooling anyone. This guy is one of the most honest people, down to earth and sincerest person I have ever known of.
yes I go out of my way to excite people that are suffering the horrible condition of tinnitus for pleasure. I enhance the pleasure by washing my hair in ranch dressing. you got me. how'd you get so smart? you must have an IQ of 1,453!
humptydumpty69
Member
I believe that the current purpose of this thread is to aid @JohnAdams in becoming as informed as possible, as he, compelled by desperation and courage, mentally and situationally prepares to pioneer Dr. Shim's treatment.
It is best if we could stay constructive. I wonder if @lymebite anticipates any further speculations on the patents from his sources?
It is best if we could stay constructive. I wonder if @lymebite anticipates any further speculations on the patents from his sources?
Constructive definitely good. And always helpful for clarity of the thread to switch to personal messaging for posts that are off-topic.
Nothing additional forthcoming from my end beyond the handful of thoughts posted earlier. Most of which I think have already been brought up in one way or another here in this thread or on the MPP thread. So nothing dramatic from my inquiries.
humptydumpty69
Member
Anybody knows about what he is talking about? Like a clinic in Germany who gives ear injections for 75000€ to treat Meniere's disease for Hollywood stars??
He's saying they took some blood from him and centrifuged it before reinjecting him... also said it was not allowed to do in USA. Made me think about Minbo's technique.
I can't imagine what this is aside from PRP in regards to his injections. He describes the blood centrifuge and incubation, I'm not sure. He also mentioned a book, I wonder if we could track that down; I would be interested. It seems that his problem was all to do with inflammation, though it is difficult to say if simply eliminating inflammation would help any of us. Though I think inflammation is definitely thought to be a cause of some tinnitus and hyperacusis, could anyone confirm? I would think in the least, if you could reduce inflmmation you could potentially eliminate feelings of general discomfort and fullness. It didn't seem that he had any damage to hair cells whatsoever.
As far as all of the celebrities that went to the facilities he describes, they all had very different ailments. It sounds like there was a versatile team of specialists supervising procedures, and that whatever treatment he received was not acting as a sort of panacea in regards to treatment.
The cause or causes of pain hyperacusis still are mostly speculative. Even the discovery in 2015 of pain fibers in the inner ear by Paul Fuchs of Johns Hopkins Medical School is not proof that those fibers are the root cause of pain hyperacusis in some way.
I do recall having heard chronic inflammation suggested from time to time as a possible cause, though offhand I cannot think of a source to link.
Isn t hearing loss one of the meniere s disease symptoms as well?
"Meniere's disease is a disorder of the inner ear that causes episodes in which you feel as if you're spinning (vertigo), and you have fluctuating hearing loss with a progressive, ultimately permanent loss of hearing, ringing in the ear (tinnitus), and sometimes a feeling of fullness or pressure in your ear."
I agree and have already stated all this on MPP. His patent is worthless and seems more of a way of gaining the trust of the gullible to me. The first page on his website is a picture of him holding a patent which I find really odd. Why promote a worthless and unproven patent at all? A serious scientist and clinician would do studies first to prove the concept, and then they would publish the results to a respected peer-reviewed journal. Anyone could make a competing PRP patent anytime they like (it would take a while to be granted, but still).
Where's the evidence? I find it staggering that whenever anyone has Skyped him he has given answers like this one:
There's no reason to be hurried to publish? Are you kidding me. It seems he's rather hurried to take people's money though. Dear me.
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