South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)

Nice work JohnAdams. I read your post again. Nice detective work. I am a 7 hour flight more or less to Korea, I find it so tantalizing and scary. That's me. I am very grateful for your research. Thanks. I don't have a credit card, I am a Luddite using my sons tablet to get on the www. I need to make a contribution to this forum asap, I feel hope, I am grateful.

What's the logic of not publishing, is it as simple as " that's to much work, when I am a practitioner and want to fill my bank account up". Shim was thanked for splashing out on a feast at Stanford (a little disconcerting to me) but he was also, as you said, had his fingers on the pulse and was visiting an important facility that compliments his methodology.
 
@JohnAdams,

I think you have a great find here, and you are drawing decent connections. My greatest concern still is the reasoning for the evidence of HF damage associated with Shim.

I'd also like to point out @EddieA 's recent experience with intra-articular PRP:

"That is the main reason I did PRP, and the (potentially temporary) reduction of tinnitus perception seems to be a side effect of the healing of the nerves connected to my AO/AA joints."



I am still waiting back on his reply for elaboration on this statement, and why EddieA is convinced that his nerves are healing, and if a medical professional suggested this; but if it is in fact the case that his nerves are healing, this would be evidence for @lymebite 's MD source's inquiry as to if PRP could heal nerves.
 
"By a combination of growth factor stimulation and expression of the transcription factor, Math1, that is required for hair cell formation in the inner ear, we show here that MSCs derived from bone marrow can be induced to differentiate into hair cells. The neurosensory progenitors obtained from bone marrow can be converted to sensory cells by co-culture with cells of the developing sensory epithelium, moreover, even in the absence of Math1 expression."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136105/

This is exactly what Dr. Minbo Shim is doing.

Moreover, look whose names are on this paper.

View attachment 24985

Stefan Heller, as in Stanford's Heller Lab.

WHAT DO THEY DO?

"OUR LABORATORY WORKS ON INNER EAR DEVELOPMENT AND REGENERATION, AS WELL AS ON THE BIOLOGY OF SENSORY HAIR CELLS, THE MECHANOSENSITIVE CELLS OF THE INNER EAR."

https://hellerlab.stanford.edu/

View attachment 24986

Albert Edge is the one that discovered that the notch inhibitors regrow hair cells. This is the basis of fx322.

"Dr. Albert Edge showed in 2013 that a "notch inhibitor" class molecule gives rise to new hair cells in a culture. "


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/human-hearing-loss-could-be-reversible/491777/

Looks like Dr. Minbo had his fingers on the pulse of this technology as it was emerging and ran with it.

This lends more credentials to his process in my opinion.
By the way, Shim just looks like he is at a nerd frat party where they have rigged the projector to play Anime or a Twitch stream. Also, are you sure that is Shim and not just some random Asian?
 
Here's more about marrow derived mesenchymal stem cells regenerating hair cells.

"Role of Endogenous Bone Marrow Stem Cells Mobilization in Repair of Damaged Inner Ear in Rats"

"Histological examination of inner ear specimens from rats receiving GCSF therapeutic regimen confirmed the regeneration of the organ of Corti that coincided with the positive shift of the DPOAE records of these rats."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651279/
 
By the way, Shim just looks like he is at a nerd frat party where they have rigged the projector to play Anime or a Twitch stream. Also, are you sure that is Shim and not just some random Asian?
Did you spend more than 2 seconds looking at that? It is directly from the Hellar lab website and the caption says it is Dr. Minbo Shim. Why ask such ridiculous questions? This is all a joke isnt it?
 
@JohnAdams,

After watching the Stanford video that you posted, which I will link here as well, since it seems to be a decent resource, it seems that Heller and Stanford could be somewhat approachable. I wonder if you could contact them and inquire about Shim, see if they have furthered any "interactions," or just ask a general opinion in regards to his clinic, treatment, and/or patents?





Screen Shot 2018-12-22 at 10.23.03 AM.png
 
@JohnAdams,

After watching the Stanford video that you posted, which I will link here as well, since it seems to be a decent resource, it seems that Heller and Stanford could be somewhat approachable. I wonder if you could contact them and inquire about Shim, see if they have furthered any "interactions," or just ask a general opinion in regards to his clinic, treatment, and/or patents?





View attachment 25043

I've reached out. Other's have as well. They are ignoring. Maybe they're busy. Maybe something else.
 
I have access to the full text of this study.

Insulin-like growth factor 1: A novel treatment for the protection or regeneration of cochlear hair cells
Yamahara, Kohei ; Yamamoto, Norio ; Nakagawa, Takayuki ; Ito, Juichi
Hearing Research, December 2015, Vol.330, pp 2-9

"First, a phase I/II clinical trial was performed to assess the safety and efficacy of IGF1"
"No serious adverse events associated with the test treatment occurred during this trial."

"In this review, IGF1 has been described as a novel and potent treatment for SNHL, potentially via HC protection and regeneration. In clinical trials, IGF1 was shown to be effective for SNHL and is considered a potential medication for the treatment of SSHL with similar or superior effects compared with intra-tympanic steroid therapy."

IGF1 is in Platelet Rich Plasma.
 
@JohnAdams,

I think you have a great find here, and you are drawing decent connections. My greatest concern still is the reasoning for the evidence of HF damage associated with Shim.

I'd also like to point out @EddieA 's recent experience with intra-articular PRP:

"That is the main reason I did PRP, and the (potentially temporary) reduction of tinnitus perception seems to be a side effect of the healing of the nerves connected to my AO/AA joints."



I am still waiting back on his reply for elaboration on this statement, and why EddieA is convinced that his nerves are healing, and if a medical professional suggested this; but if it is in fact the case that his nerves are healing, this would be evidence for @lymebite 's MD source's inquiry as to if PRP could heal nerves.
Could you share a link or source regarding potential high frequency damage?
 
@Arseny
Shim told me many patients seen improvement in Tinnitus some a complete silencing but he admits that was rare.

The only thing that Shim has going for him is his use of growth factors,if what Libermann tells me is correct,that auditory nerve fibres survive for decades after they have detached and that growth factors tell them to sprout out and reattach again then maybe Shim is doing just that with whatever soup he injects into your ears.

NT-3 is the most potent growth factor for the job,it's the growth factor responsible for synaptic connections forming in the inner ear during our development BUT,it's not the ONLY growth factor capable of doing so.
They tested this years ago using various drugs and proteins and each had their own level of success,some having none at all so it is plausible that administering growth factors to the ear can indeed reduce T or H if synaptopathy truly is the cause.

Funnily enough the reason they aren't pumping NT-3 into our ears today is because it has a nasty affect on haircells and causes them to die,NT-3 has to be administered accurately on site to be effective and cause no complications.

So I wonder if the growth factor Shim pumps into our ears is responsible for the higher frequency loss we've seen on some of those audiograms,if NT-3 is anything to go by its completely plausible.Theres also long term problems to consider alongside that,will this cause hearing to die a month after treatment etc and as of yet we haven't any experiences from his former patients to conclude what,if any problems they had.


It's difficult to find everything in the early thread. I recall someone exclaiming that Shim's solution for HF damage caused by the treatment, is more treatment to heal the HF damage. The last paragraph of the quote above mentions the discussion of HF damage in regard to Shim.
 
I wonder if you and others mentioned Shim when you attempted to make contact? Are they unavailable in general, or just when pertaining Shim?
I asked about him.
@Arseny

It's difficult to find everything in the early thread. I recall someone exclaiming that Shim's solution for HF damage caused by the treatment, is more treatment to heal the HF damage. The last paragraph of the quote above mentions the discussion of HF damage in regard to Shim.
Well it's not NT 3. But yes many good questions here.
 
@Arseny
It's difficult to find everything in the early thread. I recall someone exclaiming that Shim's solution for HF damage caused by the treatment, is more treatment to heal the HF damage. The last paragraph of the quote above mentions the discussion of HF damage in regard to Shim.
Thank you very much. I will read it thoroughly.
I'm very interested in restoring high frequency hearing, because I suspect I might have cochlear synaptopathy in high frequencies from bad circulation and noise exposure (MRI machine increased my tinnitus 2-3 times). Audiogram only shows 15 db loss at 16000 hz in my left ear and the other ear is perfect.

My main sound is a 15000 hz hiss/sizzle. Morse code didn't get worse after an MRI so I suspect only high frequencies are affected or my neck got messed up even more from the vibrations on the MRI table.
 
Thank you very much. I will read it thoroughly.
I'm very interested in restoring high frequency hearing, because I suspect I might have cochlear synaptopathy in high frequencies from bad circulation and noise exposure (MRI machine increased my tinnitus 2-3 times). Audiogram only shows 15 db loss at 16000 hz in my left ear and the other ear is perfect.

My main sound is a 15000 hz hiss/sizzle. Morse code didn't get worse after an MRI so I suspect only high frequencies are affected or my neck got messed up even more from the vibrations on the MRI table.
Your ears aren't that bad compared to some of us, go to Korea, you can be easily fixed by Dr. Minbo.
 
Stefan Heller just got back to me.

I asked him about Dr. Shim and mentioned PRP injections, but no details about the cocktail.

"Listen to your otologist. I know that Minbo stayed in my lab, and some meetings, but he received no training and we did not provide him with any secrets to cure hearing loss. There is no scientific foundation that would show any of the treatments you have mentioned work. I am not able to recommend

Sincerely,
Stefan Heller"

I can't cut and paste on my kids tablet, that's what I am using now. That is the gist of it.
Don't know what to say, I thought the Heller lab was doing work like this, I am gutted and confused. Will check email now to make sure I didn't miss anything.
 
@Daniel Lion

Not sure what I can say. I don't like simply writing this off after the work I've done trying to look into this information. What everyone else has found as far as scientific papers are concerned are also compelling enough to keep following this. If Shim is a fraud, he sure has been around for quite a while. SK doesn't like medical fraud, so he'd be screwed pretty soon if he was not legitimate. Eventually mistakes come back to haunt. After Christmas I will get back into investigating.

I would like to know why exactly Heller says the science is phony. After what we have read, that simple brush off feels too weird. I am by no means discrediting it, that would be foolish considering his contribution. However, it is possible for someone to find something else while going in a separate path, and the papers we have read just bug me.
 
Korean people, not friends...a long shot.
He probably got back to me, because he was at his desk...I got lucky, my letter was humble and from a lay persons perspective. The doctors have gone home for Christmas, many Koreans are Christian. Don't know what to make of it. Reluctantl, sad, frustrated. Don't know what to think. Does doctor Heller have to say that, because of his position, a random email from a stranger? By the way , did talk to a doctor here from Korea, but was of no help. Not giving up....when someone says " we have discovered a way to regenerate and reverse hearing loss" basically Shims words. What do you think?
 
Stefan Heller just got back to me.

I asked him about Dr. Shim and mentioned PRP injections, but no details about the cocktail.

"Listen to your otologist. I know that Minbo stayed in my lab, and some meetings, but he received no training and we did not provide him with any secrets to cure hearing loss. There is no scientific foundation that would show any of the treatments you have mentioned work. I am not able to recommend

Sincerely,
Stefan Heller"

I can't cut and paste on my kids tablet, that's what I am using now. That is the gist of it.
Don't know what to say, I thought the Heller lab was doing work like this, I am gutted and confused. Will check email now to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Well, there is indication that this will work. I've posted a peer reviewed paper about IGF-1 (several times) that touts clinical phase studies on humans that implicated it in regeneration of hair cells as well as recovery of hearing IN HUMANS. PRP contains IGF-1. as well as other growth factors, he also used mesenchymal stem cells and Stefan Hellar himself has his name on a published paper saying those types of stem cells are proginitors for hair cells, at least in vitro. So there is evidence that this does actually work.

Human trial overview:

"clinical trials were performed to study the efficacy of IGF1 in the treatment of SSHL. First, a phase I/II clinical trial was performed to assess the safety and efficacy of IGF1 (UMIN-CTRR000000936) (Nakagawa et al., 2012, 2010). SSHL that was refractory to systemic steroid therapy was selected as the target disease for the clinical trial. Patients (n ¼ 25) with definite SSHL and with no recovery after systemic glucocorticoid treatment for more than 7 days were recruited within 29 days of SSHL onset. T he outcome of IGF1 treatment in patients was compared with that of a historical control in which patients underwent hyperbaric oxygen therapy. In the historical control, 66 out of 199 patients (33%) exhibited improvements in hearing threshold (Nakagawa et al., 2012, 2010). The outcome measure was the proportion of patients showing an improvement in hearing threshold, which was defined as a recovery of 10 decibel (dB) hearing level (HL) in the mean hearing level at the five frequencies tested (0.25, 0.5, 1, 2, and 4 kHz) at 12 and 24 weeks after treatment. Topical IGF1 application onto the round window membrane via gelatin hydrogels was performed as in the in vivo animal studies (Fujiwara et al., 2008; Iwai et al., 2006; Lee et al., 2007) and at 12 weeks after the test treatment, 48% (95% confidence interval[CI]28e69%) of the patients exhibited improved K. Yamahara et al. / Hearing Research 330 (2015) 2e9 5 hearing, with this proportion increasing to 56% (95% CI 35e76%) at 24 weeks after treatment. The proportion of hearing improvement observed at 24 weeks after IGF1 treatment was significantly higher than that observed in the historical control trial (p ¼ 0.015) (Nakagawa et al., 2010). The average recovery in pure tone audiometry thresholds over the five frequencies tested was found to be 11.9 dB (Nakagawa et al., 2012). Hearing improvement at 24 weeks after IGF1 treatment was found to be statistically significant at all five frequencies compared with the hearing levels of the patients at registration. A time course analysis of the changes in hearing threshold revealed that hearing recovery after topical IGF1 treatment occurred during the initial 4 weeks in the majority of patients, but that further recovery (>20 dB) was evident in some patients at a later stage (Nakagawa et al., 2012). No serious adverse events associated with the test treatment occurred during this trial."

Then they did another human clinical trial with even better results!!!!

"Based on the result of the phase I/II clinical trial described in 5.1., a randomized clinical study was performed (UMIN000004366)."

"A trend, however, was observed: a higher proportion of patients with 30 dB HL improvements in pure-tone average hearing thresholds was measured for the IGF1 group than in that the intra-tympanic steroids group. The difference in changes in pure-tone average hearing thresholds over time between the two treatment groups was found to be statistically significant (p = 0.003). In this trial, no adverse events were observed. The findings of this trial suggest that IGF1 is an effective treatment for SSHL and that IGF1 is a similar or superior therapy compared with intra-tympanic Dex therapy."

CONCLUSION:

"In this review, IGF1 has been described as a novel and potent treatment for SNHL, potentially via HC protection and regeneration."

SOURCE:
Insulin-like growth factor 1: A novel treatment for the protection or
regeneration of cochlear hair cells
Kohei Yamahara, Norio Yamamoto, Takayuki Nakagawa, Juichi Ito

There's more significant data for this than FX322 and in terms of curing tinnitus as a symptom of hearing loss this is by far the best thing I think we have seen so far. :ROFL:

Someone find something better, please.
 
I think Heller was being diplomatic, hell I don't know... I did not go into any details. I only said that the good doctor Shim was doing PRP injections and claiming some very good success with regeneration and hearing loss, what do you think, Dr. Heller?

I have posted his response... is it weird, or to be expected from a professional. Would his reaction be the same if we were chatting in a bar or cafe. Does an email force ones hand to be diplomatic and conservative?

He certainly seems to be not in touch or aware of Shim except for people from this site emailing him. Maybe a way to get all of us out of his hair.
 
@JohnAdams,

You know, I had never seen the second half of that statement by Heller before now. You have been posting some very interesting and convincing stuff recently. If Shim actually has any ties at all, I'm starting to think this could really be worth exploring. If you are on the fence at all about doing Shim's treatment, you might actually have to balls up and go through with this.


Haha, I'm editing this, I didn't realize that we had replies from Heller now.
 
I think Heller was being diplomatic, hell I don't know... I did not go into any details. I only said that the good doctor Shim was doing PRP injections and claiming some very good success with regeneration and hearing loss, what do you think, Dr. Heller?

I have posted his response... is it weird, or to be expected from a professional. Would his reaction be the same if we were chatting in a bar or cafe. Does an email force ones hand to be diplomatic and conservative?

He certainly seems to be not in touch or aware of Shim except for people from this site emailing him. Maybe a way to get all of us out of his hair.
I plan on doing a video call on Skype after Christmas. John, David, do you want to be in it?
 
@JohnAdams,

You know, I had never seen the second half of that statement by Heller before now. You have been posting some very interesting and convincing stuff recently. If Shim actually has any ties at all, I'm starting to think this could really be worth exploring. If you are on the fence at all about doing Shim's treatment, you might actually have to balls up and go through with this.

If he is on the fence, that's not good enough for me to want him to go. I don't want him to unless he has some confidence. Hesitation can be a valid warning.
 
Personally, I am not disheartened by the lack of endorsement from Heller. I have had success with a number of alternative treatments that no establishment practitioner would advocate. My greatest concern would be risks rather than effectiveness. My gut tells me that this is a 3 fold more effective therapy than clinical LLLT, not that this has any merit. I think that I will post you the results of PRP that I have seen in the scaring of skin; perhaps this will be relevant to some.

As far as Heller revealing no secrets, seems a curious way to structure his response. The guy next to Shim in the picture seems awfully buddy-buddy with him. I bet he spilled every moment of his research and experience with Shim while slurping noodles and tipsy on Stella. Shim sponsored the thing, why do you think there was so much beer in proportion to the rest of the stuff?
 
Last edited:

Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!

Register

Register on Tinnitus Talk for free!

Register Now