Stem Cell Clinics for Treating Tinnitus?

[LostOutWest]

Hello all - about 6 weeks into tinnitus and it's been rocky. I'd be up for just about any treatment type.

I know Stem Cells are controversial, but anyone have any stem cell center recommendations for tinnitus? I am having a hard time determine the stem cell clinic that @attheedgeofscience went to in Bangkok. Location doesn't matter.

Anyone have any feedback on StemCells21?

Up for any info. Feel free to PM too.

Thanks!

 

[lcj]

If money and location are no issue for you I do believe that StemCells21 is your best bet. It is the clinic that 4 Tinnitus Talk members have gone to including ATEOS.

They have to date treated over 50 people for tinnitus and hearing loss. And are the only clinic I know of that combines the LLLT, oxygen, stem cells and peptide therapies.

Outside of StemCells21 there are a limited number of clinics that have any experience with tinnitus or other vestibular disorders.

 

[LostOutWest]

If money and location are no issue for you I do believe that StemCells21 is your best bet. It is the clinic that 4 Tinnitus Talk members have gone to including ATEOS.

They have to date treated over 50 people for tinnitus and hearing loss. And are the only clinic I know of that combines the LLLT, oxygen, stem cells and peptide therapies.

Outside of StemCells21 there are a limited number of clinics that have any experience with tinnitus or other vestibular disorders.

Thanks so much. I appreciate your reply. StemCells21 definitely looks to be the clinic with the most developed protocol on tinnitus. Great point on multiple treatment combinations beyond stem cells, too.

 

[lcj]

Thanks so much. I appreciate your reply. StemCells21 definitely looks to be the clinic with the most developed protocol on tinnitus. Great point on multiple treatment combinations beyond stem cells, too.

Sure! Let me know if you are considering it as there are some questions I had that clinic never answered.

Also, take a look at the following study:

https://www.ejao.org/m/journal/view.php?doi=10.7874/jao.2018.00115

Summarized here:

https://cells4life.com/2018/10/stem-cells-treat-sensorineural-hearing-loss/

Even though the study was looking mainly at safety it's very interesting to me that the children who received the largest doses of IV stem cells had the greatest responses in their hearing. All the children studied had acquired hearing loss (meaning they were born with normal hearing and a genetic component was ruled out).

This and other anecdotal reports and papers prove to me that stem cells need not be administered intratympanically in order to have some kind of effect in many/most cases.

 

[Allan Mcmillan]

Thanks so much. I appreciate your reply. StemCells21 definitely looks to be the clinic with the most developed protocol on tinnitus. Great point on multiple treatment combinations beyond stem cells, too.

I'm from Bangkok and I have contacted their clinic over tinnitus, apparently, their patients usually need multiple treatments to get good results. This is for their $11,000 dollar option for acoustic trauma induced tinnitus.

 

[lcj]

I'm from Bangkok and I have contacted their clinic over tinnitus, apparently, their patients usually need multiple treatments to get good results.

I wonder how much of that is partially an attempt to upsell. When I first contacted SC 21, they only emailed the prices using their most expensive (passage 1) cells. It's not until I looked in the brochure that I saw the cheaper prices of the passage 3 cells and even cheaper still adipose cells.

They also state that adipose cells are not recommended for anything other than orthopedic conditions yet I know of two or three people who have had success with hearing loss/tinnitus using adipose cells (one was a former patient they provided for me).

Also all the people on Tinnitus Talk who received benefit there did only one treatment. So while I feel multiple treatments are beneficial and increase chances of success, they are perhaps being more conservative with their recommendations than needed maybe because they have an economic incentive to do so.

 

[JPGL]

I wrote to them and they answered me:

Good morning , the stem cell protocol we do is via extraction of stem cells from fat with liposuction. The cost of this procedure starts at 10000 dolars for one treatment.This included the costs of the procedure,anesthesia,and injection to the eardrum,hyperbaric chamber and nutritional IV.​

Can someone who lives in Florida give us more references?
Does anyone know this clinic?
Are they legitimate?

The stem cell clinic I'm talking about is:

browardentaesthetics.com

 

[scotty03874]

I wrote to them and they answered me:

Good morning , the stem cell protocol we do is via extraction of stem cells from fat with liposuction. The cost of this procedure starts at 10000 dolars for one treatment.This included the costs of the procedure,anesthesia,and injection to the eardrum,hyperbaric chamber and nutritional IV.​

Can someone who lives in Florida give us more references?
Does anyone know this clinic?
Are they legitimate?

The stem cell clinic I'm talking about is:

browardentaesthetics.com

Don't waste your money, I was treated there in May 2021 with no positive results... Liposuction stem cell injection cost was $7000.00.

 

[Freerunner]

Don't waste your money, I was treated there in May 2021 with no positive results... Liposuction stem cell injection cost was $7000.00.

Hi Scotty,

How many injections did you receive and were they only IV?

 

[scotty03874]

How many injections did you receive and were they only IV?

3 separate injections, no IV, right into the eardrum. Gave me crazy vertigo for a brief moment. Didn't help out my tinnitus or hearing loss.

 

[James Connelly]

So I emailed StemCells21 a few questions. I have hearing loss from a gig and I also had a TBI last year which is still affecting my vision.

Here are the questions I asked along with their answers. What are your thoughts? Legit or not? I know maybe 4 people have had stem cell treatment there but I've not seen anyone recently.

Regarding hearing loss and tinnitus treatment:

Question:

Endolymph fluid inside the cochlea is a harsh environment for foreign stem cells, how do you change the composition of the fluid before the procedure ensures the cells survive? How do you get inner and outer hair cells to grow in the right location to restore hearing rather than anywhere? How do you establish a connection with the auditory nerve to restore hearing?

Answer:

Yes, the endolymph is the fluid that is present in the inner ear cochlea, which is rich in K+.

But our stem cells procedure for tinnitus is not that we are injecting the stem cells into that inner cochlea area. We do not penetrate the tympanic membrane to inject the stem cells.

As I discussed with you during our consultation, the route of administration of our MSC stem cells to get to that part of the ear is, injecting the stem cells via the intramuscular injection in front of the ear lobe around the temporal region (the meridian points). From these injection points the stem cells will migrate to the inner ear and also the hair cells and not to the cavity of the inner ear. The stem cells are also not being affected by K+.

Once the stem cells are migrated onto those areas, it will start to repair and regenerate the hair cells thus gradually improve the hearing and tinnitus.


Question:

If the hair cells continuously reproduce how do you make sure tumours don't grow?

Answer:

Umbilical Cord tissue Derived Mesenchymal Stem Cells (UC-MSC) does not have the potential for carcinogenesis (tumor formation)

Only embryonic stem cells (that are obtained from the aborted fetus) can have the potential for tumor formation.

Regarding the TBI:

Question:

Can stem cells become axons? My neurologist believes my visual and cognitive issues relate to axon injury. I have a clear MRI scan showing no brain damage. Why use the type of cells you use? What is their benefit over other types of cells?

Answer:

Mesenchymal stem cells are multipotent adult stem cells that are present in multiple tissues, including umbilical cord, bone marrow and fat tissue. Mesenchymal stem cells can self-renew by dividing and can differentiate into multiple tissues including bone, cartilage, muscle, and connective tissue. In Juvenile states MSCs can also differentiate into other cell types such as cardiomyocytes, neural precursors and/or mature neurons, however this ability reduces with ageing or large scale laboratory culture expansion of MSCs.

MSCs have shown the ability to avoid a negative response from a person's immune system, allowing the cells to be transplanted in a wide range of people without fear of rejection. These transplants vastly increase the body's natural healing abilities and have potent anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive responses.

MSCs possess several properties that are advantageous in the field of regenerative medicine and tissue engineering. Their potential for immunomodulatory, immunosuppressive, and regenerative properties has been widely used in the form of cell-based therapy for inflammatory, immune-related, and degenerative diseases.

Their use is beneficial in tissue regeneration given their capability to differentiate into several cell lineages, their homing capacity, angiogenesis, anti-apoptotic activity, and secretion of bioactive soluble factors (growth factors, cytokines, extracellular vesicles / EVs)

MSCs function in immunomodulation by inhibiting the proliferation of several types of immune cells through the action of cytokines and regulatory factors. Their anti-inflammatory effect decreases an immune response to inflammation, thus protecting the host. Anti-apoptotic activity of MSCs protects injured cells and preserves organ function.


Question:

How do the stem cells navigate to the right places and areas of injury rather than if you're not going to be injecting them directly into the brain?

Answer:

MSCs have the ability for selective migration toward a site of injury, in a process called homing. This means they can act as an efficient surveillance system, which detects changes in the environment such as the presence of inflammation. They have in fact been shown to travel to the site of inflammation from the injection site and subsequently induce the release of bioactive molecules.

For any defects of damages of the brain tissue or neurons, the route of administration of the stem cells will be Intrathecal (lumbar puncture) injection of the stem cells directly into the spinal canal. Once the cells are in the spinal canal, it will reach up to the brain and with the homing effect, the stem cells will go to the areas of the inflammation and damaged cells that need to be repaired and regenerated.

 

[scotty03874]

So I emailed StemCells21 a few questions. I have hearing loss from a gig and I also had a TBI last year which is still affecting my vision.

Here are the questions I asked along with their answers. What are your thoughts? Legit or not? I know maybe 4 people have had stem cell treatment there but I've not seen anyone recently.

Regarding hearing loss and tinnitus treatment:

Question:

Endolymph fluid inside the cochlea is a harsh environment for foreign stem cells, how do you change the composition of the fluid before the procedure ensures the cells survive? How do you get inner and outer hair cells to grow in the right location to restore hearing rather than anywhere? How do you establish a connection with the auditory nerve to restore hearing?

Answer:

Yes, the endolymph is the fluid that is present in the inner ear cochlea, which is rich in K+.

But our stem cells procedure for tinnitus is not that we are injecting the stem cells into that inner cochlea area. We do not penetrate the tympanic membrane to inject the stem cells.

As I discussed with you during our consultation, the route of administration of our MSC stem cells to get to that part of the ear is, injecting the stem cells via the intramuscular injection in front of the ear lobe around the temporal region (the meridian points). From these injection points the stem cells will migrate to the inner ear and also the hair cells and not to the cavity of the inner ear. The stem cells are also not being affected by K+.

Once the stem cells are migrated onto those areas, it will start to repair and regenerate the hair cells thus gradually improve the hearing and tinnitus.


Question:

If the hair cells continuously reproduce how do you make sure tumours don't grow?

Answer:

Umbilical Cord tissue Derived Mesenchymal Stem Cells (UC-MSC) does not have the potential for carcinogenesis (tumor formation)

Only embryonic stem cells (that are obtained from the aborted fetus) can have the potential for tumor formation.

Regarding the TBI:

Question:

Can stem cells become axons? My neurologist believes my visual and cognitive issues relate to axon injury. I have a clear MRI scan showing no brain damage. Why use the type of cells you use? What is their benefit over other types of cells?

Answer:

Mesenchymal stem cells are multipotent adult stem cells that are present in multiple tissues, including umbilical cord, bone marrow and fat tissue. Mesenchymal stem cells can self-renew by dividing and can differentiate into multiple tissues including bone, cartilage, muscle, and connective tissue. In Juvenile states MSCs can also differentiate into other cell types such as cardiomyocytes, neural precursors and/or mature neurons, however this ability reduces with ageing or large scale laboratory culture expansion of MSCs.

MSCs have shown the ability to avoid a negative response from a person's immune system, allowing the cells to be transplanted in a wide range of people without fear of rejection. These transplants vastly increase the body's natural healing abilities and have potent anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive responses.

MSCs possess several properties that are advantageous in the field of regenerative medicine and tissue engineering. Their potential for immunomodulatory, immunosuppressive, and regenerative properties has been widely used in the form of cell-based therapy for inflammatory, immune-related, and degenerative diseases.

Their use is beneficial in tissue regeneration given their capability to differentiate into several cell lineages, their homing capacity, angiogenesis, anti-apoptotic activity, and secretion of bioactive soluble factors (growth factors, cytokines, extracellular vesicles / EVs)

MSCs function in immunomodulation by inhibiting the proliferation of several types of immune cells through the action of cytokines and regulatory factors. Their anti-inflammatory effect decreases an immune response to inflammation, thus protecting the host. Anti-apoptotic activity of MSCs protects injured cells and preserves organ function.


Question:

How do the stem cells navigate to the right places and areas of injury rather than if you're not going to be injecting them directly into the brain?

Answer:

MSCs have the ability for selective migration toward a site of injury, in a process called homing. This means they can act as an efficient surveillance system, which detects changes in the environment such as the presence of inflammation. They have in fact been shown to travel to the site of inflammation from the injection site and subsequently induce the release of bioactive molecules.

For any defects of damages of the brain tissue or neurons, the route of administration of the stem cells will be Intrathecal (lumbar puncture) injection of the stem cells directly into the spinal canal. Once the cells are in the spinal canal, it will reach up to the brain and with the homing effect, the stem cells will go to the areas of the inflammation and damaged cells that need to be repaired and regenerated.

I'm doing Dr. Minbo Shim's (from South Korea) PRP protocol in the United States in early July. Dr. Shim is training directly with the doctor I'm doing it with. He is going to assist on the procedure. I guess Dr. Shim uses a very easy injection instrument that he invented called the Shim Shot. He noted that it is even easy for beginners to administer it. He uses growth factors and PRP. 6 injections through the eardrum, over the course of two weeks.

 

[James Connelly]

I'm doing Dr. Minbo Shim's (from South Korea) PRP protocol in the United States in early July. Dr. Shim is training directly with the doctor I'm doing it with. He is going to assist on the procedure. I guess Dr. Shim uses a very easy injection instrument that he invented called the Shim Shot. He noted that it is even easy for beginners to administer it. He uses growth factors and PRP. 6 injections through the eardrum, over the course of two weeks.

Cool, I hope it goes well for you mate. If you don't mind me asking, what made you go for that rather than StemCells21? I think I saw that you were thinking about it. Is there a website or anything for the doctor you're going to see? I've just read a bit on Tinnitus Talk about Dr. Shim but there were 70 odd pages to get through... Cheers!

 

[scotty03874]

Cool, I hope it goes well for you mate. If you don't mind me asking, what made you go for that rather than StemCells21? I think I saw that you were thinking about it. Is there a website or anything for the doctor you're going to see? I've just read a bit on Tinnitus Talk about Dr. Shim but there were 70 odd pages to get through... Cheers!

It's a lot closer to me (only 3 hours by plane) and a lot more inexpensive than StemCells21.

 

[Travis Henry]

I'm doing Dr. Minbo Shim's (from South Korea) PRP protocol in the United States in early July. Dr. Shim is training directly with the doctor I'm doing it with. He is going to assist on the procedure. I guess Dr. Shim uses a very easy injection instrument that he invented called the Shim Shot. He noted that it is even easy for beginners to administer it. He uses growth factors and PRP. 6 injections through the eardrum, over the course of two weeks.

Where are they located and how do I get in contact with the clinic that does this stateside? I am in big trouble with my tinnitus and hyperacusis. It'ss pretty much a life and death matter & need to find hope & relief fast! Money is no object. Thank you so much for your time Scotty! <3

 

[James Connelly]

It's a lot closer to me (only 3 hours by plane) and a lot more inexpensive than StemCells21.

Makes sense. Can you share contact details for the doctor or more information about the research? I'm definitely interested, anything to get my hearing back and stop/reduce the ringing!

 

[scotty03874]

@Travis Henry & @James Connelly:

He's in Sarasota, FL / Dr. John Lieurance (Advanced Rejuventation).

He has NOT confirmed he is doing the procedure yet but he is getting trained by Dr. Shim after the Orlando ENT conference so it looks promising. I have put the two in contact together through email. I'll know more in the next few weeks. I'm looking to get treated in early July after he meets Dr. Shim at the Orlando ENT conference June 25-27th. Then Dr.. Shim plans on seeing his practice after the Orlando conference in Sarasota. So fingers crossed... If they will hit then I'll be the first to be treated in the USA overseen by Dr. Shim either in person or on a Zoom-like platform Dr. Shim invented called Talala. I've attached one of Dr. Shim's patient's audiogram he treated last year. It's the Blue only, he only treated his left ear. Dr. Shim has been doing this procedure since 2014 on hundreds if not thousands of patients in Seoul, Korea.

I'll keep all of you posted with my progress.

 

[James Connelly]

@Travis Henry & @James Connelly:

He's in Sarasota, FL / Dr. John Lieurance (Advanced Rejuventation).

He has NOT confirmed he is doing the procedure yet but he is getting trained by Dr. Shim after the Orlando ENT conference so it looks promising. I have put the two in contact together through email. I'll know more in the next few weeks. I'm looking to get treated in early July after he meets Dr. Shim at the Orlando ENT conference June 25-27th. Then Dr.. Shim plans on seeing his practice after the Orlando conference in Sarasota. So fingers crossed... If they will hit then I'll be the first to be treated in the USA overseen by Dr. Shim either in person or on a Zoom-like platform Dr. Shim invented called Talala. I've attached one of Dr. Shim's patient's audiogram he treated last year. It's the Blue only, he only treated his left ear. Dr. Shim has been doing this procedure since 2014 on hundreds if not thousands of patients in Seoul, Korea.

I'll keep all of you posted with my progress.

Thanks a lot for the information mate. Do you have any contact details for Dr. Shim? I can't find him anywhere. Cheers.

 

[scotty03874]

Thanks a lot for the information mate. Do you have any contact details for Dr. Shim? I can't find him anywhere. Cheers.

His email is:
heliocityclinic@gmail.com

His website is:
cmclinics.com

What country are you from?

 

[James Connelly]

His email is:
heliocityclinic@gmail.com

His website is:
cmclinics.com

What country are you from?

Thanks mate. I'm from the UK, otherwise I would've tried to get on the FX-322 trial

I'm planning on trying Laser soon.

 

[scotty03874]

Thanks mate. I'm from the UK, otherwise I would've tried to get on the FX-322 trial

I'm planning on trying Laser soon.

Maybe Dr. Minbo Shim's treatment in either Florida, USA or Korea would be an option for you. I'll keep you posted. I'm getting treated on June 27th for two weeks. At least 6 injections...

 

[Vincent R]

I'm doing Dr. Minbo Shim's (from South Korea) PRP protocol in the United States in early July. Dr. Shim is training directly with the doctor I'm doing it with. He is going to assist on the procedure. I guess Dr. Shim uses a very easy injection instrument that he invented called the Shim Shot. He noted that it is even easy for beginners to administer it. He uses growth factors and PRP. 6 injections through the eardrum, over the course of two weeks.

Cool that you are getting a regenerative medicine procedure done Any updates on how things work out will be highly appreciated.

 

[scotty03874]

Cool that you are getting a regenerative medicine procedure done Any updates on how things work out will be highly appreciated.

I will update the forum of course.

 

[LostinTX]

Maybe Dr. Minbo Shim's treatment in either Florida, USA or Korea would be an option for you. I'll keep you posted. I'm getting treated on June 27th for two weeks. At least 6 injections...

If you're going to Broward ENT or wherever in FL, can you update on the cost? Are the stem cells directly injected into your ear?

 

[scotty03874]

If you're going to Broward ENT or wherever in FL, can you update on the cost? Are the stem cells directly injected into your ear?

Yes, I was treated at Broward ENT. It was $7000.00. It didn't help me at all. I'm getting treated on June 27th in Sarasota, FL for two weeks. At least 6 injections. Dr. Minbo Shim is going to be there and oversee the process for the first two injections, then flying back to Korea. He invented the procedure/process and has been doing this since 2014. The clinic is going to treat people after he leaves and use his protocol. Dr. Shim claims to have done over 20,000 injections on patients over the years. He has a patent for this in the USA. Visit his website: http://cmclinics.com/. He has updated it recently...

 

[LostinTX]

Yes, I was treated at Broward ENT. It was $7000.00. It didn't help me at all. I'm getting treated on June 27th in Sarasota, FL for two weeks. At least 6 injections. Dr. Minbo Shim is going to be there and oversee the process for the first two injections, then flying back to Korea. He invented the procedure/process and has been doing this since 2014. The clinic is going to treat people after he leaves and use his protocol. Dr. Shim claims to have done over 20,000 injections on patients over the years. He has a patent for this in the USA. Visit his website: http://cmclinics.com/. He has updated it recently...

Thanks for the info Scotty. I'm more curious now though, if the initial stem cell treatment from Broward ENT didn't help you, why do you think this treatment will? What is the difference in the treatment? And was the Broward ENT one injection(s) in your ear?

I did the OTO-313 trial and had the shot in my ear, so I'd be ok with another intratympanic injection in my ear if it helped.

 

[scotty03874]

Thanks for the info Scotty. I'm more curious now though, if the initial stem cell treatment from Broward ENT didn't help you, why do you think this treatment will? What is the difference in the treatment? And was the Broward ENT one injection(s) in your ear?

I did the OTO-313 trial and had the shot in my ear, so I'd be ok with another intratympanic injection in my ear if it helped.

Dr. Shim uses different regenerative methods. He uses blood PRP and bone marrow and does more injections (6) over two weeks. I'm going to get 6 injections. Broward ENT only did two injections with blood PRP injections and included the fat from liposuction. Dr. Shim disagrees with fat injections, he claims it's not helpful and potentially harmful to you. I'm only doing my left ear with Dr. Shim.

How did the OTO-313 injection go for you, did you receive placebo or the actual dose?

 

[just1morething]

Yes, I was treated at Broward ENT. It was $7000.00. It didn't help me at all. I'm getting treated on June 27th in Sarasota, FL for two weeks. At least 6 injections. Dr. Minbo Shim is going to be there and oversee the process for the first two injections, then flying back to Korea. He invented the procedure/process and has been doing this since 2014. The clinic is going to treat people after he leaves and use his protocol. Dr. Shim claims to have done over 20,000 injections on patients over the years. He has a patent for this in the USA. Visit his website: http://cmclinics.com/. He has updated it recently...

That's convenient for you that Dr. Shim will be in Florida. I'm not sure if @JohnAdams was totally satisfied with his treatment in Korea. I'm still looking at my left jaw causing my highly annoying hissing. It's bone on bone on left side.

 

[scotty03874]

That's convenient for you that Dr. Shim will be in Florida. I'm not sure if @JohnAdams was totally satisfied with his treatment in Korea. I'm still looking at my left jaw causing my highly annoying hissing. It's bone on bone on left side.

Gotta keep trying. John Adams had a very good looking audiogram. I'm not in the same boat. I have lots of hearing loss. Why would Dr. Shim fly to an ENT conference in Orlando FL if he didn't have something positive to contribute to the hearing community? Or maybe he just likes Disney World lol.

 

[Rafaa]

Gotta keep trying. John Adams had a very good looking audiogram. I'm not in the same boat. I have lots of hearing loss. Why would Dr. Shim fly to an ENT conference in Orlando FL if he didn't have something positive to contribute to the hearing community? Or maybe he just likes Disney World lol.

Good luck. Do you have any middle ear issues? Like pain, fullness, change in hearing, internal sounds etc? Would be interested to see if the PRP can have local healing to middle ear muscles, eardrum, and local mucosa.