Suicidal

[Orions Pain]

I'm so sick of this guys. How can this be this bad?

 

[Chinmoku]

Sorry to say, but this kind of thing is one of the reasons why I'm not religious (among other reasons).

The problem of evil is indeed the greatest difficulty for Christianity. The usual answer, based on the problematic notion of free will, does not work given children or good people getting horrible illnesses or being killed or maimed by natural events. The notion that we are fallen creatures in a fallen world does not help much either. Suffering remains at least partly unexplained in the bible. The book of Job basically says "you are a human, you are too limited to understand the working of God". It has God playing a game with Satan with the poor Job becoming the object of a sort of test between God and Satan. Some parts of the gospels, especially where Satan tempts Jesus, seem to imply that Satan is the real king of this world. But then why does God allow Satan to make us suffer like this? Some mystics claim it's God's will anyway and we cannot understand it from this side and need to have faith as it's all for the best in the end. How can this work in the face of the horrible suffering we see and saw through history and even experience ourselves? It requires blind acceptance of such horrors to lose all meaning. The bible does acknowledge this suffering, as there is a whole book of lamentations. Some key prophets have been suicidal at times. Christianity does not provide an answer, suffering remains a mystery in the end, although God sent his son/himself as Jesus Christ to suffer with us, but this raises more questions and problems. One is naturally perplexed, to say the least.

There are great scientists who are atheists (many) and great scientists who are Christian believers (few). When I was still functioning I used to read Aron Wall's blog "undivided looking". He is a top physicist, astrophysicist and cosmologist. As a mathematician you may have heard of the apologist John Lennox. I always wondered (with Wigner) at the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in physics and see it as one of the evidences against strict materialism. Mathematical objects, numbers, geometries, topologies, function spaces and other structures exist in a platonic world we tap into. I find this to be true. What does this mean for strict materialism?
Then there are the problems with consciousness...

Other monotheistic religions suffer from the same problems of Christianity and there is no incarnated God suffering with us.

Buddhism says the soul does not exist and suffering is born from attachment and ignorance. You can accept the Dharma, follow the eightfold path to free yourself, God may or may not exist, this is not important to most Buddhists. However, after you watch seriously ill children or your parents slowly dying of Alzheimer's, this becomes abstract and completely insufficient, at least to me. Is this really ignorance? I love Buddha's life and teachings but it is not enough and leaves us with many problems, even in the expanded Mahayana traditions.

I think religions offer some belief matrices that may help us frame reality beyond strict materialism. None of them fully answer the problem of suffering, although a few promise things will be clear after death. I tend to like Buddhism and Christianity, I'm a christian but I have to confess that my faith has been more than shaken by the horrible suffering I see in the world and I'm experiencing myself. Life has become a cross to carry for me and it is crushing me.

It goes without saying that I respect people who cannot believe in the face of all the horrors we see and experience. I struggle a lot to keep my beliefs alive. Suffering remains a mystery in the end, at least to me. The fact that it might be meaningless further adds to it.

We need to stay strong for ourselves and our families but it's a desperate fight I feel I'm losing.

 

[dan]

Same here, worse and worse. Can't put my hands on whatever's causing it.

Is it still getting worse? How loud is it now?

 

[Pitseleh]

Is it still getting worse? How loud is it now?

Yep. I'm not putting a number or trying to fight it anymore. There's just nothing I can do to stop it so...

 

[Daniel Lion]

Yep. I'm not putting a number or trying to fight it anymore. There's just nothing I can do to stop it so...

So sorry Pitseleh,

You are not sure what is causing your tinnitus, correct? That is so awful and torturous on top of your tinnitus.

Some people, a lot smarter than me (I am an idiot), have a kind of check list that they can run through with their Doctor or medical practitioner to get to the bottom of it e.g. TMJ, issues related to blood flow, hidden hearing loss or hearing loss, autoimmune issues... and such. -- If you have done this, please forgive me.

When I was suicidal and just simply couldn't sleep and was a complete mess, I took Valium and it did take the edge off. Is it possible you could take a Benzo? I hate to push this drug, but they did help me and do help a good number of tinnitus sufferers here on this forum. Dr. Shulman had a drug protocol that may help you while you try and find out what is going on.

Wish I could be of some help... and sorry for the lame advice. Just reaching out.

 

[Zugzug]

Mathematical objects, numbers, geometries, topologies, function spaces and other structures exist in a platonic world we tap into. I find this to be true. What does this mean for strict materialism?

An interesting topic is the concept of "limits at infinity." I use this concept probably dozens of times per day when trying to prove something. A related topic is "countability." It's hard for me to believe that the human construction of a god and the set of axioms used to work with infinity are independent. Honestly, seeing the novel inventions of mathematicians also makes it easier for me to see why a god doesn't need to exist. I don't do super abstract math so I don't follow the work of John Lennox closely -- he specializes in group theory, which I knew well enough to pass some necessary exams in, but I definitely do not consider myself at research level in this field. My favorite subject is probably differential equations. One of my dreams, if I am ever healthy enough to think straight, is to come up with a model for hyperacusis.

I tend to like Buddhism and Christianity, I'm a christian but I have to confess that my faith has been more than shaken by the horrible suffering I see in the world and I'm experiencing myself. Life has become a cross to carry for me and it is crushing me.

Hey, no judgement. I think that intense suffering is really polarizing. People either run to faith or run away from it. I'm sad to say that my tendency is clearly to run away from it, as I feel anger towards a god (that I don't even believe in) often.

 

[bobvann]

An interesting topic is the concept of "limits at infinity." I use this concept probably dozens of times per day when trying to prove something. A related topic is "countability." It's hard for me to believe that the human construction of a god and the set of axioms used to work with infinity are independent. Honestly, seeing the novel inventions of mathematicians also makes it easier for me to see why a god doesn't need to exist. I don't do super abstract math so I don't follow the work of John Lennox closely -- he specializes in group theory, which I knew well enough to pass some necessary exams in, but I definitely do not consider myself at research level in this field. My favorite subject is probably differential equations. One of my dreams, if I am ever healthy enough to think straight, is to come up with a model for hyperacusis.

Hey, no judgement. I think that intense suffering is really polarizing. People either run to faith or run away from it. I'm sad to say that my tendency is clearly to run away from it, as I feel anger towards a god (that I don't even believe in) often.

For us failing to repent!

 

[Chinmoku]

An interesting topic is the concept of "limits at infinity." I use this concept probably dozens of times per day when trying to prove something. A related topic is "countability." It's hard for me to believe that the human construction of a god and the set of axioms used to work with infinity are independent. Honestly, seeing the novel inventions of mathematicians also makes it easier for me to see why a god doesn't need to exist. I don't do super abstract math so I don't follow the work of John Lennox closely -- he specializes in group theory, which I knew well enough to pass some necessary exams in, but I definitely do not consider myself at research level in this field. My favorite subject is probably differential equations. One of my dreams, if I am ever healthy enough to think straight, is to come up with a model for hyperacusis.

Hey, no judgement. I think that intense suffering is really polarizing. People either run to faith or run away from it. I'm sad to say that my tendency is clearly to run away from it, as I feel anger towards a god (that I don't even believe in) often.

I love differential equations. Do you study just ODEs or also PDEs, stochastic differential equations, rough differential equations? Coming up with a model for tinnitus was a similar idea I had, but at this level of noise my brain is fried and can't think.

You are absolutely right about the polarisation, and I'm very angry too when I'm not desperate, often I'm both. Today I woke up at 3am and can't go back to sleep. I really hope we all get cured at some point.

 

[Chinmoku]

Yep. I'm not putting a number or trying to fight it anymore. There's just nothing I can do to stop it so...

How are you doing? I have been trying to taper Clonazepam. I am down to 0.25 mg. I went down by 10% cuts but I keep worsening and the worsening has accelerated. Now even sleep is mostly gone, I sleep 3 hours per night. I don't know if I can go on with this taper. I'm also getting stomach cramps and various pains. Taking Magnesium but not very effective.

I'll try to hold on but even at stable 0.5 mg I was worsening. Updosing further is dangerous and may not work anyway unless we are lucky and stabilize at large doses. I really hope the trend stops and inverts for you.

 

[Orions Pain]

What do the people here think would be reasonable terms or rules for assisted suicide? It's a topic that seems to be becoming less taboo but at the moment you seem to have to meet some pretty specific criteria to qualify - certain age, certain diagnosis, and so on, and it's very limited location wise.

I caught myself thinking about this and I honestly don't know what seems reasonable if it was to be legalized for the general public.

 

[Sevv]

Buddhism says the soul does not exist and suffering is born from attachment and ignorance. You can accept the Dharma, follow the eightfold path to free yourself, God may or may not exist, this is not important to most Buddhists. However, after you watch seriously ill children or your parents slowly dying of Alzheimer's, this becomes abstract and completely insufficient, at least to me. Is this really ignorance? I love Buddha's life and teachings but it is not enough and leaves us with many problems, even in the expanded Mahayana traditions.

Buddhism can be very tough. Some attachments are more natural to us because of evolution, such as caring a lot about sex or our children, and some we have honed our whole lives. But Buddhism is still right: We attach ourselves and pay the price through grief and hurt if something contrary to our expectations happens. With some attachments it's just a lot more difficult to stay detached.

Buddhism is to me like stoicism: Trying to cultivate a mindset where it's always an hour before your death and trying to make the best out of it. Just the way to get to this mindset is really tough and can be tougher for some who are under difficult circumstances.

For example I've tried to remember myself of this mindset of "hour before death", but I'm actually very aversed to accept my impermanence, which leads to suffering.

 

[buttercake]

[...] My favorite subject is probably differential equations. One of my dreams, if I am ever healthy enough to think straight, is to come up with a model for hyperacusis.

I doubt that ODE or PDE are the correct language to describe objects like a brain (at least I would be surprised to see such a model). If I had to bet, I would look in to Random Graph Theory.

Unfortunately it's not my field of expertise, otherwise I would have looked at least into the literature to see if somebody already came up with some idea.

 

[Zugzug]

I doubt that ODE or PDE are the correct language to describe objects like a brain (at least I would be surprised to see such a model). If I had to bet, I would look in to Random Graph Theory.

Unfortunately it's not my field of expertise, otherwise I would have looked at least into the literature to see if somebody already came up with some idea.

It depends. There are two main philosophies when modeling the brain (and a mix of the two). The one is to say that the brain is so vast with so many synaptic interactions that we can ignore the timing of action potentials and focus on large-scale, average behavior over cortical tissue. This kind of thing is suitable for EEGs and eCoGs, where electrodes record average behavior.

The other is to say that the timing of action potentials is important (obviously, it is). However, it's intractable to study the whole brain in this way.

Really, you probably need a mixture of both philosophies, along with stochasticity to account for noise.

Fittingly, sum and integral buttercakes (username checks out) are really helpful for modeling the space and time components of the interactions since neurons have long-range interactions and therefore, just standard ODEs and PDEs are not good enough, since they only consider local behavior (i.e. derivatives and numerical approximations are only useful if the medium being modeled on doesn't have long-range interactions).

The Hodgkin-Huxley model, for example, is a system of ODEs that works because the squid giant axon is a massive nerve bundle.

For hyperacusis, my estimation is that the modeling approach for the auditory pathways and for the brain's response are probably quite different.

Sorry to derail the thread, I will stop adding to this discussion here.

 

[__nico__]

Holy shit, never have I wanted to die so badly. I can't live like this anymore. I'll be amazed if I can make it through today without killing myself. I'm not doing too well fighting the urges.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Exercise seems to make my pulsing ear syndrome go away. It's gone for about 4 or 5 hours and then comes back. Has anyone tried exercise? Even my ringing from tinnitus diminishes a bit from exercise. Maybe it's the increased blood flow?

I hang upside down on an inversion table after exercise to treat my sore back. I noticed yesterday that it brought back the pulsing in my ear but it went away a few minutes later. Hanging upside down should increase blood flow perhaps, or maybe it's causing pooling of blood there which is bad.

 

[Zugzug]

Holidays are hard for suicidal people. In one regard, you know your loved ones don't want you to hurt yourself. But in another regard, it feels so awful to try to throw those thoughts at loved ones.

I wish everyone a happy holiday. If you are able to enjoy it, please do. There's so much fucking suffering in this world, you shouldn't have to feel guilty. Just appreciate it, please.

 

[__nico__]

I am at my wits' end no matter how depressed I was in the past I would always have music to turn back to but I no longer have that and I fear I'm developing noxacusis.

 

[Shizune]

Holidays are hard for suicidal people. In one regard, you know your loved ones don't want you to hurt yourself. But in another regard, it feels so awful to try to throw those thoughts at loved ones.

I wish everyone a happy holiday. If you are able to enjoy it, please do. There's so much fucking suffering in this world, you shouldn't have to feel guilty. Just appreciate it, please.

Holidays have always been hard for me but this year is by far the worse. I was slapped with some personal stuff this week on top of everything else. I'm just sitting here questioning my mortality, my future, and honestly not wanting to find out what happens in 2021...

 

[GoatSheep]

I take a single dose of Clonazepam 1mg nightly. On the 23rd of December I got my dose out, but didn't have a drink of water to wash it down. I stuck it in my hoodie pocket and then got sidetracked and didn't end up taking it. I didn't realize till the next day midday when I reached in my pocket I hadn't taken the dose. This has never happened before.

I was feeling weird throughout the day and my tinnitus took on an electrical sound it doesn't normally have and became more intrusive. I also started having some mild random muscle twitches, my vision felt blurry, my ears had a mild sensation of fullness unlike the usual one I get and my sound sensitivity seems slightly increased.

I didn't double dose I just took my dose for the 24th of December earlier than I usually do and hoped it would make things return to normal. Unfortunately, everything is pretty much the same as of now.

Yesterday I also slipped on some carpeted stairs at my house and hit the back of my head, but not particularly hard. I don't know if my tinnitus changed before or after that happened honestly.

I don't know which one of these things caused how I'm feeling now or if it was a combination of both, but I really hope it goes away.

 

[katri]

I legitimately think this is it for me. It's severe. Worse than severe even. I never knew it could be this horrendous. It's just yelling at me. Legitimately yelling. Screaming even. I want to die but I also want to go to God. I've been wanting to live. I'm engaged and I was planning a wedding. Now I can't sleep for more than an hour. It's been getting worse night by night. His room was shaking from the music and I wanted to leave. I didn't want to make him look bad in front of his family.

Now I want to take my own life more than anything right now. I can't see myself going on. My body refuses to relax. My parents don't believe in psychiatric medicine. I think I'm going to die from lack of sleep or something. Is there any hope at all?? My ears keep feeling like there's hair in them. It's just worse and worse.

I'm dead already. I found a career path I wanted to follow, I fell in love, I planned a future, I loved my family. Now I just want God to take me away. I can't believe I ever cried about moderate or mild tinnitus. I am losing everything so quickly. My body is aching from lack of sleep. I'm suffering tremors. I can't eat. My parents just tell me I'm a burden.

God won't answer me or heal me. I don't even know what that means. My dad says my body will give out when it wants to so I can sleep but it's pure torture. I need to be in school to maintain my insurance and I do not know how to do that now.

I don't even know if I have multiple tones or if it's one just SCREAMING at me? Has anyone ever felt this? When do I just quit and kill myself? I can't hear it over the shower but it's still so deafening.

It's been like 2 days of it being around this loud. I'm not sure I'll make it. I've been positive. I've been mindful. I've done so much just to have it all be torn away from me.

I don't want to die at all. I want to go to church. I want to get married. I want a job. I want children. I want something. A life really. I don't know what's happening or what I can do about it. Life is just pain and suffering. It's killing me effectively.

I was so happy 2-3 weeks ago I was good. Now I'm going to die.

 

[Zugzug]

I legitimately think this is it for me. It's severe. Worse than severe even. I never knew it could be this horrendous. It's just yelling at me. Legitimately yelling. Screaming even. I want to die but I also want to go to God. I've been wanting to live. I'm engaged and I was planning a wedding. Now I can't sleep for more than an hour. It's been getting worse night by night. His room was shaking from the music and I wanted to leave. I didn't want to make him look bad in front of his family.

Now I want to take my own life more than anything right now. I can't see myself going on. My body refuses to relax. My parents don't believe in psychiatric medicine. I think I'm going to die from lack of sleep or something. Is there any hope at all?? My ears keep feeling like there's hair in them. It's just worse and worse.

I'm dead already. I found a career path I wanted to follow, I fell in love, I planned a future, I loved my family. Now I just want God to take me away. I can't believe I ever cried about moderate or mild tinnitus. I am losing everything so quickly. My body is aching from lack of sleep. I'm suffering tremors. I can't eat. My parents just tell me I'm a burden.

God won't answer me or heal me. I don't even know what that means. My dad says my body will give out when it wants to so I can sleep but it's pure torture. I need to be in school to maintain my insurance and I do not know how to do that now.

I don't even know if I have multiple tones or if it's one just SCREAMING at me? Has anyone ever felt this? When do I just quit and kill myself? I can't hear it over the shower but it's still so deafening.

It's been like 2 days of it being around this loud. I'm not sure I'll make it. I've been positive. I've been mindful. I've done so much just to have it all be torn away from me.

I don't want to die at all. I want to go to church. I want to get married. I want a job. I want children. I want something. A life really. I don't know what's happening or what I can do about it. Life is just pain and suffering. It's killing me effectively.

I was so happy 2-3 weeks ago I was good. Now I'm going to die.

It sounds like you are suffering big time. I don't say this to trivialize your very real suffering, but it sounds like you are extremely early into the game. Please do not harm yourself, especially without significantly more time, sleep, attempts at treating it, etc.

For sure, see a doctor, if for nothing else, the sleep problems alone. I was having sleep problems and now I take extremely low dose Mirtazapine (3.5 mg), 400 mg Magnesium Glycinate, and Melatonin and I sleep a lot better.

It's really tough because obviously sleep is not the only thing causing your problems. I'm in kind of a similar boat in that I am living in hell with lots of suicidal thoughts, but I'm also weaning off a long round of high dose steroids, which is known to cause withdrawal. It doesn't mean my suicidal thoughts aren't primarily caused by my hearing problems, but it's not the time to do anything about it.

 

[ajc]

I legitimately think this is it for me. It's severe. Worse than severe even. I never knew it could be this horrendous. It's just yelling at me. Legitimately yelling. Screaming even. I want to die but I also want to go to God. I've been wanting to live. I'm engaged and I was planning a wedding. Now I can't sleep for more than an hour. It's been getting worse night by night. His room was shaking from the music and I wanted to leave. I didn't want to make him look bad in front of his family.

Now I want to take my own life more than anything right now. I can't see myself going on. My body refuses to relax. My parents don't believe in psychiatric medicine. I think I'm going to die from lack of sleep or something. Is there any hope at all?? My ears keep feeling like there's hair in them. It's just worse and worse.

I'm dead already. I found a career path I wanted to follow, I fell in love, I planned a future, I loved my family. Now I just want God to take me away. I can't believe I ever cried about moderate or mild tinnitus. I am losing everything so quickly. My body is aching from lack of sleep. I'm suffering tremors. I can't eat. My parents just tell me I'm a burden.

God won't answer me or heal me. I don't even know what that means. My dad says my body will give out when it wants to so I can sleep but it's pure torture. I need to be in school to maintain my insurance and I do not know how to do that now.

I don't even know if I have multiple tones or if it's one just SCREAMING at me? Has anyone ever felt this? When do I just quit and kill myself? I can't hear it over the shower but it's still so deafening.

It's been like 2 days of it being around this loud. I'm not sure I'll make it. I've been positive. I've been mindful. I've done so much just to have it all be torn away from me.

I don't want to die at all. I want to go to church. I want to get married. I want a job. I want children. I want something. A life really. I don't know what's happening or what I can do about it. Life is just pain and suffering. It's killing me effectively.

I was so happy 2-3 weeks ago I was good. Now I'm going to die.

Your spike has lasted a negligible amount of time.

You are overreacting.

Take it easy.

 

[katri]

Your spike has lasted a negligible amount of time.

You are overreacting.

Take it easy.

I understand. I worded it just a little harsh (or maybe I'm sensitive to everything right now). Having it gradually get worse for the last two weeks makes me feel hopeless. I am completely drained and I know it's normal to feel the way I do. My body just refuses to relax and my lack of sleep is triggering so much more suffering.

 

[Orions Pain]

The downside of support groups: almost every single person I've talked to since the beginning of my tinnitus journey has improved. Of course I'm very happy that people are getting relief but it takes a toll on you when you only seem to be worsening. 0 moments of improvement. More health problems. Doing very bad mentally.

 

[Zugzug]

I understand. I worded it just a little harsh (or maybe I'm sensitive to everything right now). Having it gradually get worse for the last two weeks makes me feel hopeless. I am completely drained and I know it's normal to feel the way I do. My body just refuses to relax and my lack of sleep is triggering so much more suffering.

It's okay to let it out. Sleep is one of the few things that is extremely treatable -- even maybe just some light sleep aids for a little bit to get back on track.

 

[Zugzug]

The downside of support groups: almost every single person I've talked to since the beginning of my tinnitus journey has improved. Of course I'm very happy that people are getting relief but it takes a toll on you when you only seem to be worsening. 0 moments of improvement. More health problems. Doing very bad mentally.

I'm with you on both fronts. My problem is incurable and progressive. I'm also scared of being all alone after hearing regeneration. Don't get me wrong, I would certainly choose curing others over "misery loves company," but it's an honest and sad realization.

 

[katri]

The downside of support groups: almost every single person I've talked to since the beginning of my tinnitus journey has improved. Of course I'm very happy that people are getting relief but it takes a toll on you when you only seem to be worsening. 0 moments of improvement. More health problems. Doing very bad mentally.

How old are you? Do you have a support system?

 

[Orions Pain]

The visual snow, the hearing sensitivity, the acid burning in ears and face, the horrible tones, the TTTS, the distortions. It's all too much guys. I've always been a home body more or less but this lifestyle is taking such a toll on my mental health. A year without a single happy moment, an entire year wasted on constant suffering and 0 sort of progress.

My life did a complete 180 and all my old memories are haunting me. I know there are millions out there who suffer but I'm tired of this below subpar existence.

 

[Orions Pain]

How old are you? Do you have a support system?

Soon to be late 20s. I don't have much of a "support" system but it's fine because that wouldn't make me feel better. I just want it to stop.

 

[Orions Pain]

I'm with you on both fronts. My problem is incurable and progressive. I'm also scared of being all alone after hearing regeneration. Don't get me wrong, I would certainly choose curing others over "misery loves company," but it's an honest and sad realization.

I am so sorry. Definitely with ya there. I just don't understand how life can go from normal to hell so quickly. I've been experiencing derealization lately and it all just seems too bad to be real, like I'm trapped in some sort of alternate universe.

I also don't understand why some start off bad and it gradually gets better and for me it was literally quite in reverse. The first 6 months symptoms were just building up one on top of the other, then it plateaued, and then existing symptoms began to get worse one by one. I literally feel like my whole life has just gone down the toilet and it's been very hard to find reason to continue lately.

I just can't believe I was hurt so easily by something so common and it's just so unfair.