2020 US Presidential Election

[just1morething]

Watch this video. Does what this dude says speak to you?

View attachment 42157

No, not at all. Who the hell are they? I identify with the peaceful Trump supporters, not those people, nor the Proud Boys. Neither has any business supporting Trump or what he stands for. They appear like rogue groups that latched onto Trump for some reason.

 

[FGG]

No, not at all. Who the hell are they? I identify with the peaceful Trump supporters, not those people, nor the Proud Boys. Neither has any business supporting Trump or what he stands for. They appear like rogue groups that latched onto Trump for some reason.

Can part of you acknowledge then that "rogue groups" may not represent an entire party then?

 

[just1morething]

Can part of you acknowledge then that "rogue groups" may not represent an entire party then?

Yeah. I thought some poster referred to Trump supporters as nutters. I could have misunderstood. They may have been referring to the conservative network channels, which isn't right either. It seems a bit derogatory and condescending.

 

[Zugzug]

It seems a bit derogatory and condescending.

Telling me my vote doesn't count because I'm too disabled to vote in person is pretty damn derogatory and condescending. I'm not saying you're doing this, but others have, and that's not exactly some cute little thing. The orange man is taking a dump on democracy. People are going to be upset. The basis for Trump's claims, as proven in court, is that he's upset that he lost and wants to take down democracy via a toddler's hissy fit.

Also, the left wingers in this thread have conceded infinitely more ground than the right wingers have. And that says a lot considering Biden is the most plain, non-controversial figure and Trump is, well, Trump.

 

[Lane]

I identify with the peaceful Trump supporters, not those people, nor the Proud Boys. Neither has any business supporting Trump or what he stands for.

@just1morething -- From what I've been able to gather, "those people" are the very ones who make up a significant portion of Trump's base. I've never seen Trump denounce any of their tactics or rhetoric. In fact, he usually seems to send some kind of message of tacit approval.

Check this out:

President Trump asked the Proud Boys to 'stand by.' Who are they?

Debate moderator Chris Wallace asked Trump if he was willing to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and tell them to "stand down" and not add to violence during recent protests in U.S. cities such as Portland, Oregon, and Kenosha, Wisconsin.

Trump agreed to do that, asking, "Who would you like me to condemn?" Biden interjected: "The Proud Boys."

Trump then urged the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by," but quickly turned the conversation to antifa, a left-wing anti-facist ideology, whose adherents he has blamed for violence at protests in recent months.

In a Proud Boys channel on the messaging app Telegram, members shared a version of their logo that included the words "stand back, stand by" following Trump's remarks.​

It would appear to me that the Democratic supporters have considerably more anger.

I'll certainly admit that much of the degradation of political discourse (and corresponding degradation of American culture) I've seen transpire over much of the past four years has made me angry. But I would say that a more apt description of how I feel is disgust. Disgust not so much how Trump has played true to his colors, but how he has corrupted so many people to join him in his crusade(s) of destruction, chaos, and disorder.

It's like a malignancy that has steadily gained momentum, and is now culminating in this inane and destructive assault on the core(s) strengths of the U.S. democracy. It's easy as hell to wreak havoc and get people all riled up with extremely divisive actions and dishonest rhetoric. It takes a person of courage to remain calm, advocate for constructive (usually difficult) solutions to enormous problems, and collaborate with and treat respectfully those who disagree with you.

 

[Luman]

No, not at all. Who the hell are they? I identify with the peaceful Trump supporters, not those people, nor the Proud Boys. Neither has any business supporting Trump or what he stands for. They appear like rogue groups that latched onto Trump for some reason.

At the debate, Biden referred to them as "The Poor Boys".

Then, in seeming reference to the candidates' first standoff, Biden said: "He says to them about the 'Poor Boys', last time we were on stage here. He said, 'I told him to stand down and stand ready'. Come on. This guy has a dog whistle about as big as a fog horn."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...or-proud-boys-presidential-debate/3740348001/

 

[Lilah]

It should not be surprising that most conservatives will view Biden as an illegitimate President (i.e., Pretender-in-Chief). Everyone, including world leaders (especially China since they themselves were involved in this fraud), all know this. It is actually quite funny (if this wasn't so serious). The only way to ease these thoughts is to have signature matches/forensic verifications and then remedy the errors. No one wins Florida, Ohio, and most of the bellwether counties, and then loses the general election. Counting stopped for several hours (which has never happened before) because Democrats were printing ballots.

 

[Christiaan]

It should not be surprising that most conservatives will view Biden as an illegitimate President (i.e., Pretender-in-Chief). Everyone, including world leaders (especially China since they themselves were involved in this fraud), all know this. It is actually quite funny (if this wasn't so serious). The only way to ease these thoughts is to have signature matches/forensic verifications and then remedy the errors. No one wins Florida, Ohio, and most of the bellwether counties, and then loses the general election. Counting stopped for several hours (which has never happened before) because Democrats were printing ballots.

The first cracks appear in this anti-democratic party that once had respect for the rule of law

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Congressman cites Trump's efforts to overturn election in announcing decision to quit GOP

''It is 'unacceptable for political candidates to treat our election system as though we are a third-world nation and incite distrust of something so basic as the sanctity of our vote,' Mitchell wrote in his letter, which was sent Monday''

''Mitchell noted that Republican leaders had been 'collectively sit(ting) back and tolerat(ing) unfounded conspiracy theories and 'stop the steal' rallies without speaking out for our electoral process,' and the last straw for him seemed to be 'the leadership of the Republican Party and our Republican Conference in the House actively participating in at least some of those efforts."

Link: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/paul-mitchell-quits-gop/index.html

 

[Zugzug]

Call off the election results. I have hard proof that it was illegitimate!

Sorry if the hand writing is sloppy. An angry Marxist was breathing down my neck while I was filling it out.

 

[Lane]

No one wins Florida, Ohio, and most of the bellwether counties, and then loses the general election.

I find that to be an unbelievable comment. So the fact that Biden was leading in almost every poll (including Republican polls) in the prior 12 months to the election doesn't matter? Or that Biden ended up winning the popular vote by seven million votes, or 4.5%. Or that suburban voters abandoned Trump in droves? Or that Trump lost support in almost every demographic since the 2016 election? Which he won by the narrowest of margins! I guess none of that matters to Trump supporters who seem to be ruled by their emotions, and have completely thrown common sense out the window.

 

[Born To Slay]

It should not be surprising that most conservatives will view Biden as an illegitimate President (i.e., Pretender-in-Chief). Everyone, including world leaders (especially China since they themselves were involved in this fraud), all know this. It is actually quite funny (if this wasn't so serious). The only way to ease these thoughts is to have signature matches/forensic verifications and then remedy the errors. No one wins Florida, Ohio, and most of the bellwether counties, and then loses the general election. Counting stopped for several hours (which has never happened before) because Democrats were printing ballots.

Ya know, you said in an earlier post that the only way Republicans would believe the election is if it went to the Supreme Court. Now that they've twice now rejected cases on the election, you've moved the goal post.

There's nothing anyone could ever do to convince you, if they did match the signatures, you'd still call it rigged and find another reason.

Your last point has already been debunked:
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ground-states-did-not-stop-counting-votes-el/

Plus nevermind, that the Trump campaign and its allies have been an abysmal failure in court. They've lost every case they've brought except for one minor case in PA. If the election fraud shit is so obvious, why can't they win in court?

One more thing, to the people who rated this as winner or informative, are you guys crazy? Nothing about this post was informative, no offense to its author.

 

[Lilah]

So the fact that Biden was leading in almost every poll (including Republican polls) in the prior 12 months to the election doesn't matter?

Polls are unreliable. We also know that from the 2016 election.

Or that Biden ended up winning the popular vote by seven million votes, or 4.5%.

Most of these votes came from California and do not reflect the entire country.

Or that suburban voters abandoned Trump in droves? Or that Trump lost support in almost every demographic since the 2016 election?

Source? These statements are wildly exaggerated and I doubt they are true.

Trump wasn't just a rural phenomenon. Most of his supporters come from cities and suburbs.

Exit Polls: Donald Trump Gains Among Women and Minorities

Most all of the freshman Republicans are women or minorities.

 

[Lilah]

Ya know, you said in an earlier post that the only way Republicans would believe the election is if it went to the Supreme Court. Now that they've twice now rejected cases on the election, you've moved the goal post.

There's nothing anyone could ever do to convince you, if they did match the signatures, you'd still call it rigged and find another reason.

The Texas case was tossed because of standing, not merit. What is the other case? What we have now in the state courts is that the liberal judges vote against Trump, and then one RINO judge sides with liberals (because his life and family/children are being threatened, or he is being blackmailed like Lolita Express Roberts), which then swings the case against Trump. Judges are voting along party lines or under fear of violence.

 

[Luman]

Taking an issue to court, which is a legal right, is not "disorder". Riots, which include looting, arson, and attacks against police officers and civilians, which the Democrats heavily orchestrated for six months prior the election, are activities more commonly associated with disorder. I suspect that those in this country who cannot understand this must have a brain disorder, as well.

 

[Born To Slay]

The Texas case was tossed because of standing, not merit. What is the other case? What we have now in the state courts is that the liberal judges vote against Trump, and then one RINO judge sides with liberals (because his life and family/children are being threatened, or he is being blackmailed like Lolita Express Roberts), which then swings the case against Trump. Judges are voting along party lines or under fear of violence.

The Supreme Court Denied A Republican Challenge To Joe Biden's Pennsylvania Win In A One-Sentence Order

There you go. And if the Texas case was so strong, why didn't someone with actual standing make the case? That's not a hard problem to fix and they should've known that going in. Plus the two conservative judges who commented still said that even if they had accepted the case, they wouldn't have granted the request. So that's a clear rebuke of the election conspiracy theories.

And can I get a citation on that violence claim? I want to see those threats and why they were so bad that someone would vote a certain way because of them when lawmakers on both sides have violence threatened against them everyday.

 

[Born To Slay]

Taking an issue to court, which is a legal right, is not "disorder". Riots, which include looting, arson, and attacks against police officers and civilians, which the Democrats heavily orchestrated for six months prior the election, are activities more commonly associated with disorder. I suspect that those in this country who cannot understand this must have a brain disorder, as well.

A court case may not be a disorder but making a claim for months that's been debunked countless times and in many state and federal courts certainly is.

 

[Luman]

A court case may not be a disorder but making a claim for months that's been debunked countless times and in many state and federal courts certainly is.

Not giving up, until all possibilities are exhausted, is a hallmark of the American Way. When Thomas Edison worked with Tesla, who was a highly educated scientist, Edison rebuked his colleague's suggestion to use advanced mathematical and scientific formulations to reduce the time and effort needed to complete some tasks, preferring to leave no stone unturned. Edison's results speak for themselves. Taking shortcuts and/or giving up is sometimes advisable and/or necessary, but highly successful people often have a habit of doing neither until they are convinced beyond a doubt, that they have found the truth.

 

[Born To Slay]

Not giving up, until all possibilities are exhausted, is a hallmark of the American Way. When Thomas Edison worked with Tesla, who was a highly educated scientist, Edison rebuked his colleague's offer to use advanced mathematical formulations to reduce the time and effort needed to complete some tasks, preferring to leave no stone unturned. Edison's results speak for themselves. Taking shortcuts is fine, and giving up sometimes advisable and/or necessary, but highly successful people often have a habit of doing neither until they are convinced beyond a doubt, in important cases of interest, that they have found the truth.

Yeah because the results of Trump's lawsuits are in any way thorough. Buddy, these suits have been lost or thrown out almost 60 times now. Either there was no fraud or the Trump team and its allies are completely inept. The latter seems unlikely given how much money they have access to.

 

[FGG]

A court case may not be a disorder but making a claim for months that's been debunked countless times and in many state and federal courts certainly is.

The claims could be debunked a million times. It doesn't matter. If Trump says something, it *must* be true to his followers.

It's like talking to a Scientologist who believes the government, the media and the entire field of psychology are in a conspiracy against "the truth". The complete lack of evidence in their view point does not phase them because they *know* without any doubt that their leader is the righteous and truthful one and everyone else is out to get them.

 

[Lane]

Polls are unreliable. We also know that from the 2016 election.

Polls are a snapshot, not a super accurate portrayal of what's going to happen. Obama ended up beating Romney in 2012 by much more than the polls suggested. I heard Romney and his team were so confident in his victory, he didn't even have a concession speech prepared in the event he lost, even though Obama won quite handily.

However, polls do have their place. Hillary Clinton ended up winning the popular vote by 2.9 million votes, or 2.1%. Polls leading up to the election gave her a 3-4% margin. So it appears the polls were off for her by about the same amount as they were for Romney. It puzzles me that people talk about how the 2016 polls were so off for Hillary, but not the 2012 polls for Romney.

Romney 49%, Obama 48% in Gallup's Final Election Survey

Obama ended up winning 51.1% to 47.2%.

 

[GlennS]

The popular vote favors liberals (who live in urban centers). The electoral college favors conservatives. So polls alone don't predict an election. You have to get granular enough to predict the electoral outcome and the swing states.

With Mitch throwing in the towel you'd really have to be deluded to think there is any avenue that could keep Trump in office, although I'm sure some Republicans will try to question the electoral vote when they meet.

I predict Trump will pivot from trying to stay in office over to trying to load up Biden/Harris with the stink of scandal. With Bill Barr leaving, expect his replacement to go after Hunter bigtime. Any and all tactics will be employed OTHER than the ballot box.

 

[Zugzug]

Biden Expected To Name Former Rival Buttigieg As Transportation Secretary

I probably like Pete more than most people here, from the left and right. I hope this works out.

 

[just1morething]

Yeah because the results of Trump's lawsuits are in any way thorough. Buddy, these suits have been lost or thrown out almost 60 times now. Either there was no fraud or the Trump team and its allies are completely inept. The latter seems unlikely given how much money they have access to.

There could have been fraud, it just may be hard to prove. Don't you think whomever would do it would try to cover their tracks? I don't think Texas even uses the Dominion machines to total their votes as they don't trust them. Of course backdating votes would be easy to do as well as possibly filling out new ballots. Why in the world were dead people voting? That sounds really strange. I heard the four states in question changed their voting rules this year. Maybe Newsmax and OANN are spreading false news? I wouldn't think so. We'll see how the Senate runoff elections in Georgia turn out in January.

 

[FGG]

There could have been fraud, it just may be hard to prove. Don't you think whomever would do it would try to cover their tracks? I don't think Texas even uses the Dominion machines to total their votes as they don't trust them. Of course backdating votes would be easy to do as well as possibly filling out new ballots. Why in the world were dead people voting? That sounds really strange. I heard the four states in question changed their voting rules this year. Maybe Newsmax and OANN are spreading false news? I wouldn't think so. We'll see how the Senate runoff elections in Georgia turn out in January.

The "dead voter" conspiracy debunked:

The dead voter conspiracy theory peddled by Trump voters, debunked

And Newsmax and OANN both make a killing catering to the die hard Trumpists (unlike Fox which has a broader conservative slant and can sometimes be critical of Trump).

I'm seriously waiting to hear that now Mitch, Amy Comey Barrett and Bill Barr are all "deep state plants" against Trump as well as his own federal, non Supreme Court appointed judges who unanimously agree there is no fraud.

The one election case Trump won (out of 60!) was to be able to throw out votes that weren't cured within 3 days (versus 6) since 3 days had been the standard. That's it. It affected less than 500 total votes.

 

[Zugzug]

There could have been fraud, it just may be hard to prove. Don't you think whomever would do it would try to cover their tracks?

This is a slippery slope, if you apply it to other things as well. It's basically a "guilty until proven innocent" assumption. If we investigated a totally innocent man for sexual assault on the basis that he's so clean that he must have hidden his tracks, I do not think you would agree with this.

Hell, it's bad even for democracy. There is actually a price to pay for telling people to not trust a totally trustworthy system.

 

[Lane]

Maybe Newsmax and OANN are spreading false news? I wouldn't think so.

@just1morething -- I'm not sure why you wouldn't think so, just follow the money. Are you aware there's enormous amounts of money to be made by making things up, especially when it comes to spinning wild tales about the demonic and pedophilia Democrats?

Some of those guys over at Fox News and other "conservative" talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh make tens of millions of dollars per year. Fake news is an extremely profitable business, and they're successful because they know how to manipulate the emotional centers of vulnerable and gullible people.

My understanding is that the term "fake news" came into play during the 2016 election. It was a time when hucksters from all over the world would try to create lucrative clickbait by coming up with outlandish titles to even more outlandish articles, and profit from their fabrications. These people were mostly apolitical--they just wanted to make money.

What they discovered is that when they tried to lure in left-leaning people with outrageous lies about conservative politicians, the "lefties" wouldn't bite. They couldn't make any money. But when they tried to lure right-leaning people with outrageous lies about more liberal politicians, they got huge responses. The discovered right-leaning people seem to love wild conspiracy theories. And they took off, because that's where the money was.

About the time this phenomenon became better known, Trump (deftly) stepped into this arena and started describing anything coming out of any mainstream news organization as fake news, especially if it was critical of him.. Before long, tens of millions of people came to believe Trump instead of mainstream news organizations.

They came to believe there's no reason to be concerned about climate change (arguably a much bigger issue than the current temporary COVID-19 pandemic). They also came to believe their coal jobs were coming back. Add a few hundred other things they came to believe, and now they believe Trump was wrongfully cheated out of an electoral win. It's truly a sad situation to see how so many people can be so manipulated to such an extent.

 

[just1morething]

@FGG

A suggestion for you to join:

https://womenfortrump.com/

 

[just1morething]

@Lane

You're fired!!!

 

[Born To Slay]

There could have been fraud, it just may be hard to prove. Don't you think whomever would do it would try to cover their tracks? I don't think Texas even uses the Dominion machines to total their votes as they don't trust them. Of course backdating votes would be easy to do as well as possibly filling out new ballots. Why in the world were dead people voting? That sounds really strange. I heard the four states in question changed their voting rules this year. Maybe Newsmax and OANN are spreading false news? I wouldn't think so. We'll see how the Senate runoff elections in Georgia turn out in January.

If it can't be proven to the point where Trump can't win more than one court case out of 60 then media outlets have no business reporting it as having any credibility. That's yellow journalism.

 

[FGG]

@FGG

A suggestion for you to join:
https://womenfortrump.com/
https://womenfortrump.com/

Oh great, now I'm on a list tracked by AOC for clicking on that .

Seriously though, who did that website?

The first of the three "Women for Trump" photos (and the prominent one when you open on mobile) features a photo of Trump with a female child.