2020 US Presidential Election

[FGG]

Not the best day to double down on Trump's claims, since this recording was leaked today:

Trump demands Georgia elections official overturn his defeat in hourlong call

This is felony election interference and since it is at the state level, Trump can't pardon himself.

Let's see how the right wing media spins this one...

Here is the full audio.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Yeah I know, but that's as far as he got. He never explained how School Choice would work under his vision. Some questions that he never bothered to answer:

1. Would the school choice system be a national system or would states and localities still be paying for most of education? If the former, how will the feds pay for 700 billion in new spending and if the latter, how will the feds force states and localities to go along with this?
2. What will schools have to do to qualify for voucher money if anything at all?
3. Will private schools still be allowed to turn away students?
4. Will schools that discriminate against LGBT people be eligible for funding?

These are important questions, these aren't things you can just get to later.

There are more questions but I won't continue, you get the point. Trump just said he was for school choice but that'd about as specific as saying you are for universal healthcare. Biden meanwhile had a detailed and thorough plan for how to address the problems in education. He did his homework while Trump just kept saying he was for school choice and he called it the "civil rights issue of our time", which is fair but if it's so important, why didn't he ever fully explain what the hell he wanted?

You fight the battles you think you can win in politics. There is no way in hell the Republicans could over power the will of the Democrats and the Teachers' Unions. Too bad because I think it would be a good thing in education. It would be really hard on public schools, but maybe it would motivate them to improve. So many politics in education. The Democratic Party and unions are dead set against school choice.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

No, the two justices said that Texas had jurisdiction but the case was still BS. They didn't in anyway stand up for Trumps allies and based on their statements, would not have voted to overturn anything.

The two justices wanted to at least hear the case. That is what should have happened. I believe judges want to stay out of it completely.

"But in big twist, it turns out that Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel Alito still wanted to hear the case based on it's merits."

REPORT: Justice Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito Went Against Their Fellow Judges on the Texas Suit

These two are currently the only two patriots on the court who still have a spine.

 

[GlennS]

This appeal to the courts or the system is ultimately going to fail because, as has been stated up-thread, Trumpism is a cult, capitulation is off the table.

This is why Gohmert is now raising trial balloons for riots.

Rep. Gohmert Calls for Street Violence as Another Legal Loss Sends MAGA World Spiraling

This is the slippery-slope at work, folks. If you start from the vantage point of butthurt and you exhaust all gaming of the system then you just abandon the system and start throwing molotov cocktails.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Do you all expect any changes or reforms to the medical process in the government over the next two years? I vaguely remember some discussion at some point regarding perhaps improving the ability of the FDA to get medicine through (i.e. reduce the time it takes for approval).

If I'm not mistaken, Democrats have historically been the ones to make moves in the medical sector, so now would be a good chance. This is especially true with regenerative medicine on the rise!

Their big idea is to expand Obamacare, and some even want to abolish private health insurance. I'm just fine with the system the way it is now, and I use it A LOT! I'd like the billing to be more straightforward, but other than that it's ok.

 

[FGG]

Ex Republican speaker of the House Paul Ryan's statement today:

"The Trump campaign had ample opportunity to challenge election results, and those efforts failed from lack of evidence...The legal process was exhausted, and the results were decisively confirmed. The Department of Justice, too, found no basis for overturning the result. If states wish to reform their processes for future elections, that is their prerogative. But Joe Biden's victory is entirely legitimate."

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Not the best day to double down on Trump's claims, since this recording was leaked today:

Trump demands Georgia elections official overturn his defeat in hourlong call

This is felony election interference and since it is at the state level, Trump can't pardon himself.

Let's see how the right wing media spins this one...

Here is the full audio.

Jump to whatever conclusion you want, if the story backs up your belief. Where is the remainder of the audio? Hopefully Trump releases the whole thing.

"Jason Miller (@JasonMillerinDC)
"They published 4 minutes and 31 seconds - where is the other 35 minutes? @GaSecofState Raffensperger is a political hack who doesn't care about election integrity, nor does he care about telling the entire story. Release the full tape!" - Jason Miller, Trump 2020 Senior Advisor"

Trump urged Georgia election official to 'find' votes in phone call, insisting he won: report

Whoever leaked that audio committed a felony too I believe. Not legal to do that unless both parties give permission. The hack that leaked it needs to be locked up. I'd say the same if someone did that to Biden. The law is the law.

 

[FGG]

Jump to whatever conclusion you want, if the story backs up your belief. Where is the remainder of the audio? Hopefully Trump releases the whole thing.

"Jason Miller (@JasonMillerinDC)
"They published 4 minutes and 31 seconds - where is the other 35 minutes? @GaSecofState Raffensperger is a political hack who doesn't care about election integrity, nor does he care about telling the entire story. Release the full tape!" - Jason Miller, Trump 2020 Senior Advisor"

Trump urged Georgia election official to 'find' votes in phone call, insisting he won: report

Whoever leaked that audio committed a felony too I believe. Not legal to do that unless both parties give permission. The hack that leaked it needs to be locked up. I'd say the same if someone did that to Biden. The law is the law.

Huh? The hour long plus full audio has been released and already posted on not only my post that you replied to but also elsewhere on this thread.

And btw Georgia is a one person consent state for audio recordings. Trump doesn't need to consent. Perfectly legal in GA.

It's crazy that Republicans are more angry that Trump was taped doing treason than the actual treason.

The two justices wanted to at least hear the case. That is what should have happened. I believe judges want to stay out of it completely.

"But in big twist, it turns out that Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel Alito still wanted to hear the case based on it's merits."

REPORT: Justice Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito Went Against Their Fellow Judges on the Texas Suit

These two are currently the only two patriots on the court who still have a spine.

"Patriots" don't try to subvert democracy.

 

[Zugzug]

Let's see how the right wing media spins this one...

This is a warm up exercise for Trumpian mental gymnastics. There are many answers:

1. Deny reality even harder.

"Washington Post. Fake news! Jeff Bezos and Trump don't get along. The audio was created by the deep state."

2. Good on Trump.

"Well, yeah, there was so much fraud! Trump simply wanted him to investigate it. He didn't want him to cheat, just do his job!"

3. Democrats cheated during the election so we are just striking back.

"All of the irregularities! People voting twice, receiving multiple ballots in the mail! The 11,000 votes to recover is nothing compared to how many BLM supporters coerced Republicans into voting for Trump!"

4. Distancing from Trump (for the softcore supporters):

"I never really liked him that much, but he wasn't this crazy all along."

5. Make it all about Raffensperger.

"He's just a loser who isn't loyal to the party!"

-----------------------------------------------
BTW, I haven't looked at any right wing news, but I guarantee one of my answers is correct.

 

[Born To Slay]

You fight the battles you think you can win in politics. There is no way in hell the Republicans could over power the will of the Democrats and the Teachers' Unions. Too bad because I think it would be a good thing in education. It would be really hard on public schools, but maybe it would motivate them to improve. So many politics in education. The Democratic Party and unions are dead set against school choice.

Sure you pick the fights you can win but how can that opinion writer say we don't know what Biden's agenda is when Biden's agenda is clearly spelled out for you while Trump's was vague and left out key details?

 

[Zugzug]

Jump to whatever conclusion you want, if the story backs up your belief. Where is the remainder of the audio? Hopefully Trump releases the whole thing.

"Jason Miller (@JasonMillerinDC)
"They published 4 minutes and 31 seconds - where is the other 35 minutes? @GaSecofState Raffensperger is a political hack who doesn't care about election integrity, nor does he care about telling the entire story. Release the full tape!" - Jason Miller, Trump 2020 Senior Advisor"

Trump urged Georgia election official to 'find' votes in phone call, insisting he won: report

Whoever leaked that audio committed a felony too I believe. Not legal to do that unless both parties give permission. The hack that leaked it needs to be locked up. I'd say the same if someone did that to Biden. The law is the law.

I'm supposed to be more concerned about the leaker than the most powerful person in the world committing a felony? lmfao. I'm serious -- this actually makes me laugh because it's so hard to believe real people believe this. Trump could walk outside and shoot a gun haphazardly, kill someone, and his supporters would blame someone else. This is the party of personal accountability lmfao.

You talk about "deep state" (whatever the fuck that is), but then when someone leaks "behind-the-curtain" dialogue, they are now a big meanie-head.

 

[just1morething]

Trump did most of the talking. The SOS or his attorney didn't say much at all. I wonder if this recording is on OAN or Newsmax? Someone else can interpret this call. Did the President record it or the SOS?

 

[FGG]

Trump did most of the talking. The SOS or his attorney didn't say much at all. I wonder if this recording is on OAN or Newsmax? Someone else can interpret this call. Did the President record it or the SOS?

Obviously the Secretary of State recorded this (or his attorney) because Trump was trying to get him to do something illegal.

Why do you need OAN or Newsmax? You can listen to the entire unedited recording yourself.

 

[Drachen]

Their big idea is to expand Obamacare, and some even want to abolish private health insurance. I'm just fine with the system the way it is now, and I use it A LOT! I'd like the billing to be more straightforward, but other than that it's ok.

The problem with insurance is it's generally okay for those who have good insurance, but for the majority (?) of those who don't, it's a piss-poor system. I am fortunate to still be covered under my family's insurance, but if I were on my own, I would be screwed most likely.

I don't think governmental insurance is necessarily better, but I am also not against trying things out. I would say I am against the idea of abolishing private practice, but I also don't have anything against universal healthcare or some sort of governmental service as long as it is executed well. I do not believe it is impossible to manage, even with the number of Americans. The Affordable Care Act in my view is not the best implementation of this idea, but I don't think it should rule out the concept altogether. It is very possible the Democrats would try to further this idea instead of improve it, which of course is not the sort of progress I want to see.

There has to be something better. We need to find it. Healthcare in this country needs vast improvements.

 

[Drachen]

I just think an audit would be good for all voters so we can move on without some being skeptical. Maybe there was minimal fraud that wouldn't affect the election? There appears to be some fraud according to the court hearings in Atlanta.

I will make no opinion one way or the other about fraud, but I do like the idea of reasonable audits and verification, especially when certain races are close.

I do think after so many instances where the voting was proved to be legitimate that the issue should be dropped. Make your case, find the evidence, and accept the result.

 

[just1morething]

Obviously the Secretary of State recorded this (or his attorney) because Trump was trying to get him to do something illegal.

Why do you need OAN or Newsmax? You can listen to the entire unedited recording yourself.

I did listen to it. I was just wondering if it was major news. I would think a phone call like that would be confidential. What Trump said was what I heard on OAN. I thought it would be the SOS ripping up the President. Why else would you post it?

 

[GlennS]

The problem with insurance...

Why is this turning into a debate over left vs. right policy??? Don't take the bait. It's a rhetorical tactic that says it's acceptable to subvert democracy if we can be convinced that we'd all be better off.

 

[just1morething]

Why do you need OAN or Newsmax?

I see the phone call was mentioned on OAN. I was thinking the recording was bad news for the President's case. That's how I read your post.

 

[Lane]

Why did they dismiss the lawsuits so quick? It should be taking weeks and months to investigate to find out if there was voter fraud.

Trump's lawyers apparently never claimed fraud in court, only to the public. Knowingly claiming something in court that's not true can lead to legal consequences, which is why they avoided doing so.
.........................................................
All 10 living former defense secretaries declare election is over in a forceful public letter published in The ...

 

[just1morething]

Why not just listen to the Georgia Senate Election Hearings? I see they are being rebroadcast on OAN right now.

 

[Drachen]

Why is this turning into a debate over left vs. right policy??? Don't take the bait. It's a rhetorical tactic that says it's acceptable to subvert democracy if we can be convinced that we'd all be better off.

I wasn't really trying to take any bait. I was just interested in having some discussion regarding a somewhat hotly debated topic in American politics, namely insurance and the implementation of universal health care.

 

[Born To Slay]

I wasn't really trying to take any bait. I was just interested in having some discussion regarding a somewhat hotly debated topic in American politics, namely insurance and the implementation of universal health care.

It definitely is a very interesting debate. I've gone back and forth a lot with some of the conservatives here on it, as I'm a strong proponent of the so called radical Medicare For All.

 

[FGG]

This was reportedly why the tape was released:

Makes sense. I think most people would have done the same in Raffensperger's place.

 

[FGG]

I did listen to it. I was just wondering if it was major news. I would think a phone call like that would be confidential. What Trump said was what I heard on OAN. I thought it would be the SOS ripping up the President. Why else would you post it?

You listened to the full hour+ long audio or just the 4 minute snip?

And yes it is major international news at this point.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Why is this turning into a debate over left vs. right policy??? Don't take the bait. It's a rhetorical tactic that says it's acceptable to subvert democracy if we can be convinced that we'd all be better off.

Yeah, like massive voter fraud! Doesn't matter how you get it done as long as you win. Many on the left truly have Trump Derangement Syndrome. It really makes them ugly people.

Good quiz here for citizens to take. It will tell you if you have Trump Derangement Syndrome and how strong it is:

https://www.gotoquiz.com/trump_derangement_syndrome_quiz_test

 

[GlennS]

I wasn't really trying to take any bait.

That's why it's bait. It catches you unprepared.

You have to understand that the driving force behind rooting for Trump to flip the election is based on an over-the-top demonization of the Democrats' platform. You know, like the Kelly Loeffler "radical leftist" mantra. You'd be surprised what people can be motivated to do on the basis of "the ends justifies the means"--maybe even, I dunno, try kidnapping a Governor? Call for Pence to be shot? I say don't have calm and reasoned policy debates with anyone who is still supporting the "Stop the Steal" nonsense. They aren't playing by the rules.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Read the transcript of the Trump to GA call below. Trump did nothing wrong in the call. He points out, by numbers, all of the votes that could have either been fraudulent or illegally counted and demonstrates that the total is way over the 11,779 votes. He is showing how the margin that Biden won by was much smaller than the total number of votes that maybe shouldn't have been counted. He never suggested GA fix the vote.

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/trump-georgia-raffensperger/2021/01/03/id/1004057/

 

[Tanni]

 

[TeeOh]

"Back The Blue" really aged like milk. Doesn't seem like the Pro-Trump and Proud Boys type people are a fan of the police anymore lol.



In case you're wondering why the police look militarized like Iron Man, then well Trump did do this:

Trump Reverses Restrictions on Military Hardware for Police

If you voted for him, then this is part of his way showing that he cares about you guys from the bottom of his heart which means a boot stomped in your face.

 

[just1morething]

You listened to the full hour+ long audio or just the 4 minute snip?

The full hour. The conduct and coverup of the SOS is way worse than anything the President did IMO. It should be a transparent election and clearly was not. You are supposed to be protecting "We the People" otherwise our votes are compromised.

Trump said the voters are very angry about the corruption. Clearly the people that testified at the Georgia Senate Election Hearings were agitated. Maybe the SOS and/or his family are being threatened by some crazy nuts on the left?