2020 US Presidential Election

Conservatives give him the benefit of doubt because they don't trust the news media because much of what the news media spews is bias or misinformation.
The way I see the difference between mainstream media and Trump is as follows. Trump outright lies compulsively; as in throws stuff out of thin air, and it's always for his personal benefit over the country. The media rarely lies. A fair criticism of them is that they don't cover enough things that are in touch with the every day American. I can actually get on board with criticism of the sensationalized media. For example, race relations are clearly worsened by the media. There aren't nearly enough positive stories.

I want to be clear though, when I say "the media," I am most certainly including Fox News as the #1 problem by miles. But I can concede that the mainstream left is definitely flawed.

My biggest issue though, is with the idea that Trump is the one to call it out. Trump is kind of like the last person with the intellectual or moral integrity to call this stuff out, in my opinion.
 
Each golf trip and resort trip to one of his properties cost tax payers enormous amounts of money because all of his security detail have to rent rooms and eat courtesy of the tax payers
Your statement refers to Trump and this refers to Obama. Include his and oldest daughter's personnel travels to colleges and universities and to the islands of Massachusetts.

Former President Barack Obama's family travels cost the U.S. a total of $114 million during his presidency, according to documents obtained by Judicial Watch, a conservative legal group.

Judicial Watch obtained the expense documents from the U.S. Air Force and the Secret Service through a Freedom of Information Act request, and two FOIA lawsuits. They represent the known totals so far, and there could be more Obama administration travel expenses revealed in the future.

Among the big-ticket trips were two family vacations during the weekend of February 14, 2014, that cost the Secret Service $272,192. That weekend, former first lady Michelle Obama went on an annual trip to Aspen with her daughters and shut down its airport; the total cost was $88,663.29. The same weekend, President Obama took a golfing trip to Palm Springs and met with King Abdullah II of Jordan, which rang in at $183,529.62.

Trump is a ___, but the Clintons were just as so in different ways. As least Bernie is honest.
 
I'm making my cat watch the debate with me. She looks thrilled.

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Your statement refers to Trump and this refers to Obama. Include his and oldest daughter's personnel travels to colleges and universities and to the islands of Massachusetts.

Former President Barack Obama's family travels cost the U.S. a total of $114 million during his presidency, according to documents obtained by Judicial Watch, a conservative legal group.

Judicial Watch obtained the expense documents from the U.S. Air Force and the Secret Service through a Freedom of Information Act request, and two FOIA lawsuits. They represent the known totals so far, and there could be more Obama administration travel expenses revealed in the future.

Among the big-ticket trips were two family vacations during the weekend of February 14, 2014, that cost the Secret Service $272,192. That weekend, former first lady Michelle Obama went on an annual trip to Aspen with her daughters and shut down its airport; the total cost was $88,663.29. The same weekend, President Obama took a golfing trip to Palm Springs and met with King Abdullah II of Jordan, which rang in at $183,529.62.

Trump is a ___, but the Clintons were just as so in different ways. As least Bernie is honest.
I think you misunderstood my point. Sure expensive vacations and frequent golf trips on taxpayers' dime is problematic no matter whose doing it, however Trump's business is directly getting paid for Trump to vacation most weekends.

The taxpayer cost of Mar-a-Lago trips goes directly in Trump's pocket because he charges Secret Service to stay here.
 
I think you misunderstood my point. Sure expensive vacations and frequent golf trips on taxpayers' dime is problematic no matter whose doing it
I never have disagreement with anyone's thoughts on this thread. I just think that the system favors those with greedy power. The rich and powerful who are all users, also get exclusions from serving in the military, using phony care giving accounts, to having not to sit in an emergency room for hours. Care giving accounts for the wealthy is truly an investment tax free account where the money is not used for the needed.

Federal documents support that the president's clubs and hotels have charged U.S. taxpayers more than $471,000 total since he took office in 2017 as of February. Even by him not taking a $400,000 yearly salary, this is wrong.
 
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Something from Bruce Wayne to keep in mind whilst watching the debate.
 
Gotta say, I think Biden won this one. I don't think Trump won any of these segments.
I don't think either were strong. Biden came off too timid at times but Trump radiated immaturity which is so much worse.

I think where Trump really lost is by painting Biden as an angry dementia patient and Biden was so much the calmer of the two.
 
California needed forest management work in progress years ago, during the Clinton and Obama administrations. What federal funds that were given were spent on water resources - levies and dams because there was too much rain and floods from reservoirs. Then during the summer, there's not enough water because of population and the need to supply more to farmers.

As Jerry Brown said, too many people and that causes too many problems. This gives the rich the power to herd all the rest, from the K family in LA, to Mark Z - influence from rich media.
 
Trump didn't even condemn white supremacy. Told his white supremacy supporters to stand back and stand by.

I think from the first debate Biden has won this one.
 
Trump didn't even condemn white supremacy. Told his white supremacy supporters to stand back and stand by.

I think from the first debate Biden has won this one.
He should have condemned white supremacy in this debate. He has in the past:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

For some reason Trump asked Wallace to name a group, and Wallace couldn't. Biden then mentioned the group "Proud Boys" to which Trump responded "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" (which I do not really understand). For whatever reason, Trump was not compelled to denounce this group.
 
Trump is so much better in this debate.

Biden belongs in a care home, he's too old to be president.
I never understood that argument from Trump supporters because if Trump won, he would reach Biden's current age before the end of his next term.
 
kamala_harris.png

Kamala Harris

Senator from California

Harris' slogan is "for the people," and she's making the case that President Trump is a "fraud." The former prosecutor says Trump is fighting for the wrong people — the powerful and wealthy — while she wants to "advocate for the voiceless and vulnerable."

Full of lies. How about the unborn? Going green is going to cost a fortune. We will gradually go that way but it will take a long time to transition. Forest fires need more controlled burns.

https://www.heritage.org/energy-eco...barely-change-earths-temperature-here-are-the
 
Biden showed his age. He looks frail and ready to crack at any moment.

The debate was exactly what I thought it would be. Biden trying to take the high ground, and Trump trying to rile Biden. Beyond that I found it incredibly boring, with not much detail coming forward. Not much got answered.

Trump appeared to say that he paid millions in tax when, for the final time, was asked if he only paid $750 in 2016 and 17. Biden didn't do a good job of taking advantage of the tax thing at all.

You guys above are talking about who won and who lost the debate. On what criteria are you basing that?
I would say that who won or lost is all in the eyes of the beholder... and it that which counts most!

Out of those on stage tonight, I feel Chris Wallace would be the better candidate for President.

Wallace should have told Trump to, "Shut the fuck up!"
 
In the pre-debate, I'm watching Don Jr. He looks like he just did a line.
Someone should've doled out a couple lines for Joe, or at least a Red Bull. God damn. Every stutter, every gap in his speech was an 'in' for the unrelentingly obnoxious Trump to interrupt and obfuscate. That was utterly painful to watch. But I'm not sure his swirling maelstrom of a gongshow won him anything other than TV ratings. Trump supporters will yuck this up for sure, but they already have their minds made up anyway. He really only needed to win over the semi-rational voters in swingstates, but after tonight's classless display he may have just sealed his own fate as a 1 term prez.
 
The way I see the difference between mainstream media and Trump is as follows. Trump outright lies compulsively; as in throws stuff out of thin air, and it's always for his personal benefit over the country. The media rarely lies. A fair criticism of them is that they don't cover enough things that are in touch with the every day American. I can actually get on board with criticism of the sensationalized media. For example, race relations are clearly worsened by the media. There aren't nearly enough positive stories.

I want to be clear though, when I say "the media," I am most certainly including Fox News as the #1 problem by miles. But I can concede that the mainstream left is definitely flawed.

My biggest issue though, is with the idea that Trump is the one to call it out. Trump is kind of like the last person with the intellectual or moral integrity to call this stuff out, in my opinion.
The media rarely lies? :rolleyes: Good one! Now, that's pure gold comedy.
 
Yeah, even Wallace was helping Biden. All they did is scream and interrupt each other. It was just a show. But, it's pretty pathetic when one interviewer clearly has sided with a candidate.
It did seem like Chris Wallace sided with Biden. Trump interrupted way too much. Hopefully the next debate will be cleaner.
 

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