Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[FERNANDO GIL]

LLLT is extremely expensive for a light shone in your ears for half an hour.
$5000 to shine a filtered high power flashlight in your ear....hmm.

Ok, if you find another treatment even way less expensive, that can cure T. Please advise I will do it.
My T is way lower than it was one year ago, and I mean a lot lower. I know money is a big issue here, but till now I did not see any other tretament that can reduce T specialy on the High Frequencies. In the lowers is possible just with steroids/ vitamins or even nothing as happen to me. But on the high frequencies til now I don´t see any tretament that can reduce T.

Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

And is not 5000 Usd for 30 minutos. You can buy a machine for 1500 USD and use it all your life.

 

[bwspot]

And is not 5000 Usd for 30 minutos. You can buy a machine for 1500 USD and use it all your life.

The price is a joke.
Who can afford it?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I said before and say it again, is not a cheap tretament. No is not.
But a joke is going to a ENT in Portugal pay 80€ for a diagnostic and the result is, "Nothing you can do live with it" . That is the biggest joke of them all.

Maybe is about time I start thinking to step out of this fórum and try to help people that really want to be helped. I asked and ask again, is there any tretament except LLLT with same results, and cheaper? If so please say so I would like to make it as well.

You asked who can aford it?
Well I can, and I´m trying to share my experience with people on this fórum so they don´t do mistakes and spend money for nothing. Just two months ago, no one in this fórum could Imagine to buy a laser for 1500 USD with two wavelenghts, 650 nm and 808 nm . All we had was a 2600 € (3120 Usd) laser from Dr wilden with 650nm / 30 Mw.
I searched and spend my own money, and now I´m sharing with people that there is way better option and cheaper, for anyone that decide to make LLLT.

I know money is a big issue in our lives, but unfornatly, medicine is just another business.


Sheers

 

[1MW]

Exists any paper in scientific magazine of dr wilden method ?
Or it is only in the field of anecdotal improvement reports ?
Some kind of obscure science ? or real science ?

I have heard in tv past years that the poison of blue scorpion from cuba treated patients from cancer
and that proved by the same the patients no scientists.
So many have flight to Cuba to take the poison of blue scorpion and after some time died because this was a scam to take some exchange the Cubans ...
I hope this not to be a similar case...

I have not problem to pay if it works but i have problem to loose my time and do more bad
and secondly my money.

 

[bwspot]

I said before and say it again, is not a cheap tretament. No is not.
But a joke is going to a ENT in Portugal pay 80€ for a diagnostic and the result is, "Nothing you can do live with it" . That is the biggest joke of them all.

Maybe is about time I start thinking to step out of this fórum and try to help people that really want to be helped. I asked and ask again, is there any tretament except LLLT with same results, and cheaper? If so please say so I would like to make it as well.

You asked who can aford it?
Well I can, and I´m trying to share my experience with people on this fórum so they don´t do mistakes and spend money for nothing. Just two months ago, no one in this fórum could Imagine to buy a laser for 1500 USD with two wavelenghts, 650 nm and 808 nm . All we had was a 2600 € (3120 Usd) laser from Dr wilden with 650nm / 30 Mw.
I searched and spend my own money, and now I´m sharing with people that there is way better option and cheaper, for anyone that decide to make LLLT.

I know money is a big issue in our lives, but unfornatly, medicine is just another business.


Sheers

1500 I could afford but I am not an expert and I have no idea what to do with that laser? What if I do more damage then good?

 

[Rube]

Hi @FERNANDO GIL
I know this is subjective but Can you put a # on your t reduction. Did you go from a 8/10 to 5/10 for example.
Thanks for all the info you have provided on LLLT.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

xists any paper in scientific magazine of dr wilden method ?

No
The only scientific proof is to trust the people that did do it. And compare there audigrams as te way the treatment goes.

You have my audiograms that were not made in Dr wilder. And if you go to Sam blog.
https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/
exactly this page. YOU can see how there earing improved. And if your improve, then you T decrease. You know that cause you had it naturally.

I went to Anne Harila, wich I trust from the bottom of my heart. And she is treating T for over 30 years. T is such subjective thing. I can claim I have 80%/90% decrease. But I can not prove it. So everything is based on trust.

Just a month ago I sold my old laser to a women here in Portugal. She called on 3 days ago, saying that was best day ever since having T. Should I trust her or not. She was afraid of doing it in the beginning, now she is going to Norway next week with me.

So is all about trust, and the only way is to compare audigrams. I do pretend to make one at the end of this month. I will compare them with the ones made in August. If I gain earing, that is the only scientific proof you can get.

But as I said, or you trust people in this forum tell the truth, or you will spend all you life wondering.
I didn´t and I´m happy for that.
Concerning SC, only if money is no big issue for you, them I say go ahead.
But is way more expensive and less effective and no proof at all. (unless you gain earing of corse).
ButI consider SC and power LLLT are the key to reduce T. If one day I will stop having T?
I still don´t know, but I´m on the right track for sure.
Just last night during some time I din´t notice it all. My life is almost back to normal.

Do you trust or you just don´t. That´s it.

Ask @Nick J. how he is felling? How is father is felling? after starting LLLT.

Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi @FERNANDO GIL
I know this is subjective but Can you put a # on your t reduction. Did you go from a 8/10 to 5/10 for example.
Thanks for all the info you have provided on LLLT.

Some time is 1/1o, but overallI can say 3/10 or 4/10.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

1500 I could afford but I am not an expert and I have no idea what to do with that laser? What if I do more damage then good?

There is no big science, is just nature doing is work. If you have a chance go to Dr Wilden (Ibiza) or Anne Arilla in Norway, Those are the ones I know. After that is all about you and your instinct, with time and doctor support you will find your way. It´s safer, easier than people think. And as I always say. maybe you will not end T, BUT FOR SURE YOU WILL HAVE A BETTER LIFE. And if you ear problem is on the low frequencies, then is almost for sure you will stop having T. The big problem is if the problem is on the High frequencies. That takes way more time;a nd mor uncertain for a final result.

All the best

 

[1MW]

I have different opinion from my experience for HF T.
HF T comes easy but pass easy a good night sleep can reset it.
I have cured from HF T with good sleep and benzo cut off.
HF T has a lot to do with GABA problem in GABA neurotransmitter can induce HF T.
There are millions with HF deafness and they have not HF T.

The problem is with low & middle frequencies this T is very hard to cure.

Also from your audiograms are typical of fluctuating hearing and others without laser therapy
have seen this improvement also without any drug.
My neighbor got sudden low frequency hearing loss and low frequency T and cured without
any treatment in a year on its own.Some T remained to him but his audiogram is close to normal now his got
cortisone only the first days but the cure happened the following year without drugs.

 

[Nick J.]

Ask @Nick J. how he is felling? How is father is felling? after starting LLLT.

Its funny u just mention this!
Like u know, my farther borrowed my laser while i was taking a break from the treatment in Norway and he used it for 8 days only 2x 50min. a day and he treated inside the ears and behind the ears.
In the other thread i told u about how he got higher T and also got sensitive to certain noises = positive responds!!

Now yesterday he wrote me on skype that he noticed he could hear the ventilation in the roof in the bedroom. A noise he havent noticed in years.
Also he was in a shoppingcenter the same day and told me he could hear and understand people talking within a few meters, even with all the backgroundnoise. Something he also havent been able to do in years, because his hearingaid reduced his hearing with almost 50% in 3 years.
I will get his audiograms and post them.
But this is insane improvement he has noticed in this short amount of time.

So he is hooked and now wants to buy the 1500$ laser ASAP!

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

My neighbor got sudden low frequency hearing loss and low frequency T and cured without
any treatment in a year

As I said, and say it again. I gain earing on 8Mhz without any special medication, just Betahistine and running everyday. So In that I agree with you, cause it did happen to me. No discussion in there. The problem is to fix the high frequencies. That jus the point i´m talking about.

Another point, is that T is not cured in your brain, T is a symptom of a ear problem, So till when you solve your ear problem all you can do is"camouflate" your real problem, with benzos. If you lost earing naturally with age , you do not get T cause is just a natural process of aging.

And once again, you are completely mistaken, gaining 60 db is fluctuating hearing? Do you think that gaining almost 50% of you earing is fluctuating hearing? Are you aware of what you are saying. I passed from -60db in the 8Mhz to 0 and you think is fluctuating hearing? Tell that to deff person and see what is reaction is?

Maybe you should start to think less as an ENT and do some real thing to fix you T, instead of finding excuses for doing nothing. Dr Wilden said me once . " I think people after wille start to get in loved with there T and do nothing to try to end it. " I think you are one of those cases.

All the best.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Its funny u just mention this!
Like u know, my farther borrowed my laser while i was taking a break from the treatment in Norway and he used it for 8 days only 2x 50min. a day and he treated inside the ears and behind the ears.
In the other thread i told u about how he got higher T and also got sensitive to certain noises = positive responds!!

Now yesterday he wrote me on skype that he noticed he could hear the ventilation in the roof in the bedroom. A noise he havent noticed in years.
Also he was in a shoppingcenter the same day and told me he could hear and understand people talking within a few meters, even with all the backgroundnoise. Something he also havent been able to do in years, because his hearingaid reduced his hearing with almost 50% in 3 years.
I will get his audiograms and poist them.
But this is insane improvement he has noticed in this short amount of time.

So he is hooked and now wants to buy the 1500$ laser ASAP!

For sure you father got "fluctuating hearing", just ask @1MW

Nice story.And all the best to him.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

And maybe some people should know that that are more people in this forum LLLT, but do not want to share it with all.
So here is another story, which of corse i´m disclosing his name, but ad permition to tell the story, and this treatment is made outside Europe or USA
"Hi
i am done with my 15 days sitting with dr. XXXXXX...he used infrared laser of 100mw and 810-905 range...20mins inside ear 10 mins behind ear...and 5 mins each on 2 -2 points on pina infront and back....further he used green and blue coloured laser crowns on my ear....He specifially said that he hasnt used the red laster having specification ranging from 20mw to 50mw and 632-660 nm as i have hyoeracusis.....my next sitting that is end of january he will use the above red laser...he also said infrared laser will cure lower frequencies that is upto 4000khz and red laser will cure higher frequencies thats is upwards of 4000khz...
my question is
1) Do u feel the T getting spiked after your treatment...and is it like up and down with it??
2) Generally how much time post treatment u start seeing change in audiogram...he has said...as per my first sitting u should see change upto 4000khz in audigram
kindly replay
regards "

And there is more, maybe when people try to be positive and really try to help, they get the recognition. I never try sold a laser on this forum or make money on any treatment.

If my advices can help. i´m happy. If you feel i´m just a scam guy, please pass my post. Apreciated.

 

[Nick J.]

For sure you father got "fluctuating hearing", just ask @1MW

Hehe...im pretty sure he dosen't give a shit about what anybody tells him any more!
His hearing has got worse and worse since he was about 30 years old (now 58) and then 3 years ago when he had almost similar audiogram like mine, he was given hearingaid and now 3 years later, his voice is almost like when deaf people talk. This kind of flat tone when he tries to speak certain words and he has an INSANE drop in db on his worst ear.
So i made him stop useing those shitty hearingaids and start useing earplugs when he is in noisy areas and that plus the laser have now shown the first progress in half his life.

Yes maybe this is God sending him spontanious regeneration in the same time he start useing laser on his fluctuating hearing...i dont really know.
I just know he dosen't pray and that he is observing something positive for the first time and dont give a shit what people wanna call it.
He just wonna do more LLLT and with more power behind it and i cant blame him.
I was in shock myself when he told me about the improvement.
It sounds to good to be true to me.
But my dad is a really cheap ass and dont like to waste money.
So when he wanted to spend money on the other laser, i pretty much had to believe him.

 

[Nick J.]

Clinical and experimental evidence indicates that corticosteroids can cause permanent eye damage by inducing central serous retinopathy (CSR, also known as central serous chorioretinopathy, CSC).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corticosteroid


Then also try read the section called "side effects" OMG!!
I think ill just stick to LLLT for now!

 

[bwspot]

There is no big science, is just nature doing is work. If you have a chance go to Dr Wilden (Ibiza) or Anne Arilla in Norway, Those are the ones I know. After that is all about you and your instinct, with time and doctor support you will find your way. It´s safer, easier than people think. And as I always say. maybe you will not end T, BUT FOR SURE YOU WILL HAVE A BETTER LIFE. And if you ear problem is on the low frequencies, then is almost for sure you will stop having T. The big problem is if the problem is on the High frequencies. That takes way more time;a nd mor uncertain for a final result.

All the best

So is the strategy to go to see dr. Wilden first and then get your own device and treat yourself?
Would dr. WIlden train me or i am on my own?

 

[Michael2013]

So i made him stop useing those shitty hearingaids.

What kind of hearing aids did he have? I am imagining he picked up some of those crappy ones that you can buy off the shelf in a store rather than getting professionally fitted by an audiologist?

Otherwise I can't see how it's possible that hearing aids caused more hearing loss.

-Mike

 

[1MW]

all hearing aids can cause more hearing loss.Because they amplify the sound

 

[1MW]

I have plugged a 650nm 5mw laser to my ear.
Because i hear only from that ear the other is totally deaf exists any side effect from laser ?
In the ear that i have T i have perfect hearing < 10db till 10kz, i have hearing and in high frequencies.
Is there any risk to loose hearing or develop constant T ? (my T is now fluctuating sometimes stops completely )

 

[Michael2013]

all hearing aids can cause more hearing loss.Because they amplify the sound

Are you speaking from experience or is that just your opinion on them?

I can see it causing hearing loss if they are not properly fitted, misused, or are those crappy ones off a shelf that amplify all frequencies regardless of what you need.

Let me put it another way, if I go into a really loud bar/restaurant I can take out my hearing aids and not notice too much of a difference. It doesn't amplify already loud sounds to dangerous levels.

-Mike

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

all hearing aids can cause more hearing loss.Because they amplify the sound

That is one the legitime scam s of the earing industry. And they know what they are doing but keep selling them.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Are you speaking from experience or is that just your opinion on them?

I can see it causing hearing loss if they are not properly fitted, misused, or are those crappy ones off a shelf that amplify all frequencies regardless of what you need.

Let me put it another way, if I go into a really loud bar/restaurant I can take out my hearing aids and not notice too much of a difference. It doesn't amplify already loud sounds to dangerous levels.

-Mike

All extra noise is dangerous especialy if you already have ear problems.

Even if they amplify the frequencie you need, your ear will get more noise than those cels can suport. They are already damage from extra noise, so you just are adding more noise inside. For sure your audiologist or Ent said, that you will need you to go back to adjust the earing aid. I´m I correct?

LLLT is no pomise to cure T, but for sure it is for gain earing. That is more than proved.

Sheers

 

[Michael2013]

Even if they amplify the frequencie you need, your ear will get more noise than those cels can suport. They are already damage from extra noise, so you just are adding more noise insid.

I have never heard of this before, where did you get that from? My hearing loss is not noise induced, btw.

For sure your audiologist or Ent said, that you will need you to go back to adjust the earing aid. I´m I correct?

Actually, no they didn't, though I do think its a good idea for people with hearing loss to have it tested on a regular basis. My ophthalmologist keeps bugging me about coming in for my annual eye exam, too. And my GP gives me crap if I don't come in every year or two for a wellness check. It's not unusual at all for an audiologist to ask a patient to return for a checkup.

LLLT is no pomise to cure T, but for sure it is for gain earing. That is more than proved.

If it were move than proved, those lasers would be selling like crazy and hearing aid manufacturers would be out of business. That's certainly not the case on either point.

-Mike

 

[Michael2013]

That is one the legitime scam s of the earing industry. And they know what they are doing but keep selling them.

Hearing aids are one of the best pieces of technology I own. It has provided a huge benefit to my hearing ability and I don't leave my bedroom without them in. Ever.

That's not the definition of scam. We'll have to agree to disagree on that point as well.

-Mike

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi @1MW

I have plugged a 650nm 5mw laser to my ear.

That is nothing, 5 Mw is absoletly nothing, you need at least 30Mw and can go all the way up to 120Mw is what I´m using

Because i hear only from that ear the other is totally deaf exists any side effect from laser ?

No side efects, as long is used with moderation. I use mine almost everyday,. The 808 nm at 450 /500Mw is ok to use, But if put it at 800 Mw it becomes more dangerous if you use to much time. Never did.

In the ear that i have T i have perfect hearing < 10db till 10kz, i have hearing and in high frequencies.
Is there any risk to loose hearing or develop constant T ? (my T is now fluctuating sometimes stops completely )

No risk of losing hearing, the only risk is to gain earing, that is the purpose of the LLLT. if you start doing LLLT in the first days maybe T will go up, but that is just the cells responding and a good sign from the tretament. For what i can see, your T is on the high frequencies and your hearing loss should be around -50 -60 db.
Acording to dr Wilden T start to show after the -40 db. I have ~40/45 db on my left ear and no T. So is preatty much correct. And if you see in Sam blog, when she reached -40 db she stoped having a low frequencie T. So i think -40 / 45 is the frontier. If your T comes and goes is cause your earing loss should be around that "area". Maybe you don´t even need to have a home laser. A 5/6 day treatment at Anne Harila clinic will help you a lot.
Once again, if you have a chance (monetary speaking) you really should consider. And from the result of the tretament you see if it´s worth it or not.

Sheers
Fernando

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

f it were move than proved, those lasers would be selling like crazy and hearing aid manufacturers would be out of business. That's certainly not the case on either point.

Say that @Jay M father.

But i´m happy that it´s working for you. Truly happy.
And hope it gives a better life quality.

f it were move than proved, those lasers would be selling like crazy and hearing aid manufacturers would be out of business. That's certainly not the case on either point.

Maybe on the day Siemens decides to start making them, is when everybody realise that there is a better way, to gain earing.

But i hope yuo trust i´m really happy is working for you,and causing no arm. but if you go back for annual check up and he rises the volume, then you should start thiking.

All the best.

Sheers

 

[Rube]

Some time is 1/1o, but overallI can say 3/10 or 4/10.

That's excellent Fernando, congratulations!
What would you say your t rating was before you started the LLLT?

Thanks

 

[skoupidis]

40 mw at 660 nm is what this site offers: http://www.tinnitus.gr/orl-laser.gr/laser therapy.htm
Will that be enough?
@FERNANDO GIL do you posses a mobile device that produces more power than this medical equipment?
Would you suggest the above treatment? It says it combines a few visits to the office and later there is a tool of 5mw you can buy and use at home. Any incites on this specific course of treatment?