Retigabine (Trobalt, Potiga) — General Discussion

Also read past posts by @benryu .... He has said the same thing as what you're suggesting from what I remember. I think there is some sort of missing link between the glutamate excess and K channel dysfunction though.

Yeah there's still a huge missing link. I also based the speculation of CN involvement on the fact that body posture/gravity significantly affect my T and CN processes both auditory and somatosensory system input and relay it to the cortex. When my T spikes it is accompanied by not only classical T symptoms like vertigo and ear pain but also all sorts of weird sensation, including increased noise when eyes are closed, facial pain and numbness sensation along the spine and along arm/leg nerves. For me, somatosensory disturbance and T loudness go hand in hand, hyperexcitation in CN might somehow be responsible. Pure groundless speculation though.

I also found this
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4614-3728-
"increased spontaneous firing rate in the DCN is observed primarily in fusiform cells (after hearing damage)"

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/31709/0000645.pdf?sequence=1
"(In guinea pig's brain) In the dorsal cochlear nucleus, binding was concentrated in the superficial (fusiform and molecular) layers, with a distinct laminar pattern. GABA A binding sites predominated in the fusiform cell layer"

tinnitus, DCN, fusiform cells, SFR, GABA A receptor, benzodiazepines acts on GABA A receptor Gamma 2 subunit, benzo withdrawal causes receptor down regulation, loss of inhibition etc.
Just wondering, might be there are some connections, what I know is many benzo users experience T as part of their withdrawal

btw how about combining potassium channel opener + multi-site magnetic neuromodulation, drug targets DCN while TMS targets auditory cortex and DFPLC, any thoughts?
 
@SoulStation ...btw how about combining potassium channel opener + multi-site magnetic neuromodulation, drug targets DCN while TMS targets auditory cortex and DFPLC, any thoughts?
...this is way beyond my pay grade!

However, I am re-thinking the GABA/Benzo combo with Retigabine.
Yeah I know it's meant to be a no-no c/o the plasticity aspects (that was primarily TRT source, however Benryu cautioned about it too...though he said he did not know for sure), but after recent hints of GABA action involved with Retigabine I'm wondering. My gut sense on "dose" being the key (my "kick the doors down" analogy from centuries back in this thread) turned out to be pretty accurate - though sure as hell it sure is individual how that manifests for trialees!!!
Anyway, my gut sense is leaning more towards GABA - Retigabine combo being a potential positive rather than a negative. But I have absolutely no proof of that. [Just the 'follow up comments' stuff after Trobalt release where the skivvy was Benzos seemed to be a surprising 'non issue' with patients taking them with Retig. - for epliepsy of course].

Zimichael
 
What is the general consensus of users here about the effectiveness of retigabine then? I've been following the thread on/off since it started and am still considering trying it.
 
As readers of this thread will know, I presented a piece of news regarding the development of a new novel kv7.2/3 potassium modulator that will hopefully be heading for clinical trials soon - see this post of mine:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...—-general-discussion.5074/page-102#post-80513

While I had no direct insight, I speculated - due to the overlap of events - that this new preclinical drug would become what is currently the undisclosed compound of AM-102:

pipeline-2014-08-11.png

(Source: http://www.aurismedical.com/product-candidates/pipeline).

Now, I have since managed to find reliable confirmation that AM-102 is another intratympanic delivered drug (like AM-101), which - in my opinion - strongly rules out the possibililty that AM-102 is a potassium channel modulator.

This then raises the question who will end up becoming the sponsor of this new potassium modulator which targets the Kv7.2/3 channels? Would GSK become the sponsor and hence a competitor to a company they partially own ie. Autifony Therapeutics?

http://www.pharmtech.com/pharmtech/...-Autifo/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/736695
 
@attheedgeofscience I remember reading something something about gsk selling their shares in autifony . The autifony website no longer lists them as an investor either. I wonder if you might have some resource to confirm or deny this if you get a chance. I will try to find what ever it was that I read. But if it's true I guess they could invest in other research a
 
Disclaimer : I might be going nuts.

I have taken a break from Retagabine for 2 days now.
In between dosages my T was catastropic and I needed a break from these intense fluctuations.
My T now fluctuates between annoying and almost gone, strange day indeed.
Slight T physical sensation rather then any tones at the moment.
During my T travels this has happened before , so...
Feel very stressed , maybe its the comedown , maybe its the near silence.
Maybe this mean something, probably not....

What a crazy ride this is, from hope to disappointment...rinse, repeat.
Yes, I am probably just losing it finally.
 
@RaZaH What was your dosage before taking a break? I mentioned in my User Experience update that I had a day when I got back to "normal" on 300mg/day. Efficacy can definitely be affected by outside influences, some of which we don't know. And Retigabine makes it more likely the targeted Kv channels will open - it doesn't force them - hence my dislike of Z's "kick the doors down". I don't object to it as an analogy for needing a higher dose, I object because it makes it sound like this chemical uses brute force, when it really just makes the environment more favorable to channel opening. It oils the hinges and produces a bit of negative pressure. It makes it increasingly easier for the channels to open.

I'm meeting with a naturopath this week or next to discuss my brain chemistry. Had testing done before starting Potiga and it seems most of my neurotransmitters are low. Makes me wonder if the signal to open/close is getting through to my eager neurons. Some of the signalling is certainly getting through, but I wonder how much better Potiga could work if I had the right levels.

Off to check on DannyBoy.
 
3x100 mg before taking a break. "Kicking the doors open" makes some sense but then again I have no idea.
I got almost complete silence but I also got hardcore spikes inbetween . I am going the route of easing into this as much as I can. Trying not to build a tolerance to soon If I can avoid it.
It also gives me a much needed sense of control just knowing I can pop one of these suckers when it gets seriously bad. Today , so far I have had almost 3 hours of "silence" I say silence as I am just watching youtube and dont notice it. MAybe its there ? I am not about to check.
 
Hey there,

am sorry not being in touch those last days ... weird things happened (but not bad ones) ... as i was saying in my last post, 400mg TID was weird for me, from close to complete silence to minispike again, such that i went back at 300mg TID .... my first couple of days with 300 TID were good and stable (loudness = 0.5 almost all day long) but then again i started to get some minispike (loudness=2 or so, but nothing bad compared to my bad days before trobalt) so i didn't know what to think about it anymore, 'cause there was no steady improvment anymore but more some seesaw all the time (again, at a significantly lower volume on average than before trobalt) ... and then coming back home on saturdday night, i blocked my keys in my doors with no mean to open it again, so i was outside home with no trobalt with me ... and it would have been very expensive to ask some guy to come on a sunday for this ... i stayed at a friend's flat, but i've missed saturday night pills, the whole sunday, and even today morning's pills ... weirdly enough, i've experienced no side effects at all and no noticeable effects on my T (i was scared i would have messed up the whole experiment but fortunatly it doesn't seems so) ... anyway, i started again trobalt today at a very lower dose (100mg TID, i took 100 mg one hour ago, and my T loudness is now like 0,5) : the more i read the last post in this thread, the more i think that for some people at least, a fast taper up could counteract the effects we want to experience (there's even a guy saying that retigabine twice a week gives him some good relief), but don't ask me why 'cause i don't have a clue except my own experience and other's experience i'm reading here ... anyway maybe @benryu was right about it (he was in favor of a slow taper up and seemed to be skilled in that field) ... i'm still not completely convinced about what i'll do in the next days (a slow or a fast taper up again) but as usual i'll let you know
Hope this helps
 
A generalized comment here.

A short while back I mentioned that Retigabine seems to somewhat unexpectedly (to our initial speculations anyhow) be a "mood drug"- among other things. I reported how I felt inexplicably positive and upbeat when taking it, etc. and that theme has become clearer as more info has come out lately.

Which is leading me to some pure speculation.....

I don't want to get into the mechanics of this, but enough of us know that classical "anti-depressants" or any "mood drugs" whether they be targeting serotonin, norepinephrine, GABA, dopamine, whatever...are all over the map in how they affect different people in different ways. It's just kind of accepted that a person may have to try three or four classical anti-depressants before 'hitting on the right one'.
Why is that?
Well because when we get into the intricacies of neuro brain chemistry/neurotransmitters and individual genetic makeup of how all those splash around in each unique brain..."it's complicated". Yeah we may have bell curve of "normal" but there's a lot of spread in that. Plus bring in variables like stress levels, dietary variance, social structure, age, gender, lifestyle, and...hell even having a pet can affect "mood"! So yeah, with a little imagination you can see it's a zoo.

So, it seems to me, that if Retigabine is also a mood drug (over an above what we thought it was going to be back on page 5 or so of this thread), then these rather huge variations we are seeing on how it's affecting people, in dose, side effects and variability on tinnitus...is becoming less and less of a surprise to me.

I'm going to hold with my crude analogy of "kicking the doors down" (I guess I like some drama when discussing bio-chemical esoterica), as it is basically a statement of what effective dose is sitting outside the membrane checking out those gates/doors?! Note I said effective dose.
Now it may be that effective dose is not as varied as it could be, though no doubt my "doors" may be welded shut after 58 years of the same tone of T, versus someone who has only had it for 3 months. But that aside, I am thinking here more of how do we know what dose is floating around outside any one individual's neural membranes? Just because Jack took the same dose as Jill (though we don't have any "Jill's" yet) does this mean the same amount of Retigabine is floating around in their intra-cellular space???...You can guess my current answer/supposition to that.
I highly doubt it!

If the "active" part of this Retigabine on tinnitus is coming from the Kv7.2/3 ("we have developed and tested a novel and more specific Kv7.2/3 (KCNQ2/3) activator that works much better than retigabine both for epilepsy and for tinnitus.") which happens to be the part of Retig. that controls "M-current" and "general excitability in the brain and ganglia" [Note! - Not Kv7.4 which affects the cochlea and vestibular hair cells]...then, are you following me here?
This Kv7.2/3 is to me, a much more "generalized function" and all over the brain too!!! So...it's going to be competing with, interacting with, messing with, a whole bunch of other nuro-transmitters in this soup. God knows how much of the active part of Retigabine for tinnitus is getting left over, to "kick at the doors", after it has been through this maze of competitors and distractions along the way. Maybe hardly any?! Maybe a lot for "less distractable" individual brains?!
Thus maybe the reason for some folks getting effects at almost their first pill, and others getting nothing but headaches and missed trams.

Again, if I think of a simplistic, pictorial image modus operandii of why so many "mood drugs" work so incredibly differently for so many people (and there are a lot of mood drugs to cater to this), this kind of scenario I have painted above comes to mind.

So folks...I think "variability" with Retigabine results, doses, methodologies, effects on T, etc., etc. is here to stay.

Best, Zimichael
 
3x100 mg before taking a break. "Kicking the doors open" makes some sense but then again I have no idea.
I got almost complete silence but I also got hardcore spikes inbetween . I am going the route of easing into this as much as I can. Trying not to build a tolerance to soon If I can avoid it.
It also gives me a much needed sense of control just knowing I can pop one of these suckers when it gets seriously bad. Today , so far I have had almost 3 hours of "silence" I say silence as I am just watching youtube and dont notice it. MAybe its there ? I am not about to check.
Which leads to the question if Trobalt can be a short-term aid?
If you have a really bad day and a pill gives you silence, this could also be better than any benzo.
Just thinking...

Btw, in the meantime I know someone with a pharmacy in Turkey.
Maybe I can get Trobalt from there. Still don't know if I should give it a try.
I am on an AD and my liver values were always higher than usual (even without meds).
Don't want to taper off at the moment. Depression is still high, even with AD.
 
The whole approach of using Kv channel modulators to effect inhibition is, I think, partially to avoid having to do so through modifying neurotransmitter levels. My chiropractor, who is putting me in touch with a naturopath, was concerned that Potiga would lower my already low levels, but I don't see a reason it should. SSRIs, yes, since they reduce the need for manufacturing more serotonin and the brain responds by making less. But why would Kv modulating change that balance?

@Philemon, it sounds like you may have had a plastic adaptation and am on the way to being able to taper down and keep the benefit. I hope so, and hopefully the spikes you have had will settle down in time.
 
Hey there,

.... the more i read the last post in this thread, the more i think that for some people at least, a fast taper up could counteract the effects we want to experience (there's even a guy saying that retigabine twice a week gives him some good relief), but don't ask me why 'cause i don't have a clue except my own experience and other's experience i'm reading here ... anyway maybe @benryu was right about it (he was in favor of a slow taper up and seemed to be skilled in that field) ... i'm still not completely convinced about what i'll do in the next days (a slow or a fast taper up again) but as usual i'll let you know
Hope this helps

Well, so far we have only one example to follow. A Mtp did well leaving it progressively. His tinnitus did not return Trobalt slowly leaving. Can you beat a retreat from work, but that risk if we already have a positive experience gradually letting?
 
My T is reactive to noise and unpredictable many time went to 0db but also more times went to severe.
Because i have not found the cause of my sudden hearing loss (hearing returned after steroids).
Who which take retigabine had worsening after cut off ?
I have the fear that when i cut off maybe get worse T have anyone experienced this or only descrease
in T can happen and after cut off of retigabine ?
 
Guys, I just took a 500mg dose of this stuff and my tinnitus is so low! I beg anyone on here, if you can sell me some of the tablets please do! I don't know if I could ever cope with tinnitus like it was before and my doctor said my chances were low in regards to getting trobalt...
 
@dannyboy - explain something to me please, your doctor would rather see you commit suicide than prescribe you more Trobalt that is really working for you? What about on a compassionate basis?
It's very unlikely that anybody on a forum would sell you Trobalt and either way you will need a steady supply.
 
How old is your mr t:)
5 months nearly.

@dannyboy - explain something to me please, your doctor would rather see you commit suicide than prescribe you more Trobalt that is really working for you? What about on a compassionate basis?
It's very unlikely that anybody on a forum would sell you Trobalt and either way you will need a steady supply.

My doctor doesn't seem to care at all...He claims I'm not even depressed....
 

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