Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience

[7Thunder’s]

@7Thunder's: why not wait for Neuromod's Lenire?

I don't know much about Neuromod's Lenire technology. In any case, there are many competitors creating new technologies. Who's right, time will tell.

Hi 7Thunders, so you have an autoimmune thingy wrecking your hearing?

Yes, pretty much and this disease killed my entire life.

There are no guarantees 7Thunder's, it's a leap of faith, I suppose that is part of the praying over the patient's head, for good measure.

Now I need to bow down for miracles things to happen. One day surely!!!

Couldn't your local ENT do this procedure for you? In case part of your noise is coming from ETD. I appear to have a mucous problem and then my ears don't crack when I swallow. I was doing pretty well last night and then I woke up with low pitched static, especially in my left ear. Trying Mucinex and an EarPopper. I was told by an ENT that my left Eustachian tube is narrow.

I visited three ENTs so far, two locally and one in state. None of them comes up with knowledge. All said blah blah blah sorry there's no cure, you need hearing aids.

There are no guarantees, unfortunately, about how well the treatment will work. It depends on your overall health, and your current level of hearing loss.

Yep you are right, there's No Guarantee for Life either. Hope is still keeping us alive.

Just gotta wait for your audiogram.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Just thought I might add, perhaps the good Doctor's assistant responded, the tone was not like our usually exchanges which is always pleasant.

Having said that $18,000 seems to be the magic number, at least for initial quotes. Not a bad business model, that would add up to a tidy sum rather quickly. Peace out, and best wishes for good recoveries for our two comrades.

 

[just1morething]

Having said that $18,000 seems to be the magic number, at least for initial quotes.

It would be nice to see a logical reason for doubling in price with no guarantees. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Artemis2K]

It would be nice to see a logical reason for doubling in price with no guarantees. Doesn't make sense to me.

It all depends on the hearing loss and the treatments and maintenance needed. The same treatment I'd get wouldn't work as well for someone with worse damage. He's not raising the price. Shim has frequently told me his goal is to improve his method to where he can treat people with less of a cost. After all, his treatment used to be $6,000 minimum per ear, but he reduced the price to $4,500. He also told me at one point that my hearing was pretty good, so he'd just split a treatment in two and charge me for just one ear. He didn't have to do that and could have just stayed silent.

 

[Daniel Lion]

It would be nice to see a logical reason for doubling in price with no guarantees. Doesn't make sense to me.

If you have made a breakthrough, you want to be compensated. Compensated for your skills and expertise. That makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[just1morething]

If you have made a breakthrough, you want to be compensated. Compensated for your skills and expertise. That makes sense, doesn't it?

I just think pulling a figure of $18,000 out of thin air after our first patient was charged $9000 for extensive treatments including 72 IT injections seems a bit odd is all. Where are all the testimonials from previous patients of his that their hearing was improved and/or tinnitus lessened or eliminated? I'm more interested in the tinnitus improvement myself.

 

[Daniel Lion]

I just think pulling a figure of $18,000 out of thin air after our first patient was charged $9000 for extensive treatments including 72 IT injections seems a bit odd is all. Where are all the testimonials from previous patients of his that their hearing was improved and/or tinnitus lessened or eliminated? I'm more interested in the tinnitus improvement myself.

There are testimonials, I read them. They are from Korean patients. Search back on the other thread or just google the clinic.

 

[just1morething]

There are testimonials, I read them. They are from Korean patients. Search back on the other thread or just google the clinic.

I did look at his website before and will revisit it again. Why would not the mega-rich people (famous musicians etc.) from all over the world seek his treatments and give some feedback? Just wondering, but I hope our two members that were treated by Dr. Shim have great success. If they wish to testify on their experience (meaning end results) whether it be good or bad is up to them.

 

[JohnAdams]

Why would not the mega-rich people (famous musicians etc.) from all over the world seek his treatments and give some feedback?

Because they don't know about it.

 

[JohnAdams]

My question is:
I've basically already explained what he does, so why isn't anybody trying to get an ENT or otolaryngologist to do this to them?

He would be the most experienced expert at doing it though, but still.

 

[GlennAz]

Maybe because what he does doesn't feel good, and takes time.
Most people want:

1) an instant painless fix or pill.
2) won't go against the flow (the accepted hearing aids).

 

[JohnAdams]

Maybe because what he does doesn't feel good, and takes time.
Most people want:

1) an instant painless fix or pill.
2) won't go against the flow (the accepted hearing aids).

Well that's too bad because the part of our body that is damaged is way up in our skull and has a filter between it and our systemic blood flow, the BLB. We should be thankful that there is a permeable membrane between our cochlea and the middle ear for any medicine to enter through at all. That's how FX-322 and OTO-413 are going to be administered and I am not predicting this, I know it for a fact, that the vast majority of us are going to need multiple doses of any drug that comes out for hearing loss so people here need to go ahead and psych themselves up to go through this same type of thing that you and I have gone through. So they might as well go on a quest to get PRP injections into their ears, whether it's from Dr. Shim, or whomever. My theory is that FX-322 and OTO-413 are actually inferior to PRP because those are both just one thing, PRP contains many growth factors that are already tailor made to induce healing in our body tissues.

FX-322 activates a cellular signalling pathway, well what do people think growth factors do? They activate MANY cellular signalling pathways.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.
The stem cells in our ears are LGR5+.
The stem cells in our olfactory sensory epithelium are LGR5+.
LGR5+ cells are what FX-322 targets.
PRP has been shown in a published, peer reviewed study to restore lost olfactory sensation which means it activates LGR5+ stem cells.
Dr. Shim was using PRP to regenerate smelling a full year before the study was published.
Also PRP has been shown to heal eardrum perforations more quickly than on their own.
ALSO these other drugs will need to be mixed with a gel to keep them in your middle ear, without which they would just flush out through your eustachian tubes, and this gel will dilute them. PRP naturally coagulates and thickens so there is no need for the gel, which delivers a higher concentration of the active ingredients to the round window membrane.

Just let that stew in your heads for a while.

 

[GSC]

My question is:
I've basically already explained what he does, so why isn't anybody trying to get an ENT or otolaryngologist to do this to them?

He would be the most experienced expert at doing it though, but still.

How do you expect people to convince their ENT or Otolaryngologist to do this, by just word of mouth and video testimonies and a possible success in two cases? I couldn't even convince my ENT, both of them, to give me dexamethasone injections with printed proof. Lol. Not only that, but I doubt most ENTs would be even smart enough to conduct this.

Also, I would not trust some ENTs who have never done this before to handle something so delicate.

 

[humptydumpty69]

@JohnAdams,

You guys are coveting some information about this treatment as well, so it's not like we have all of the information to go prompt our ENTs with. Not to mention, the progress you guys have experienced so far seems negligible. I don't even think Glenn has experienced any progress yet? You couldn't even handle a kiss in your ear, and you were considering going back? These aren't financially practical options, especially for the marginal and potentially negligable results that have been shared with us. Not to mention the risks of complications with the ear drum, that is far from appealing to everyone.

 

[JohnAdams]

Not to mention, the progress you guys have experienced so far seems negligible.

I'm sorry. That's ridiculously wrong.

You couldn't even handle a kiss in your ear,

The ear kiss is loud enough to cause severe damage in healthy ears.

https://www.healthyhearing.com/report/32635-Kiss-deaf-hearing-loss

Not to mention the risks of complications with the ear drum, that is far from appealing to everyone.

Are you dumb? I had 72 injections into my eardrums with zero complications and my doctor in America examined my eardrums and said they looked fine.

 

[GSC]

Are you dumb? I had 72 injections into my eardrums with zero complications and my doctor in America examined my eardrums and said they looked fine.

He's not dumb. He's talking about how other doctors could fuck things up for people. No one is doubting Minbo, at least I'm not. I've discussed with you and I think he's a really good and great doctor, albeit rare. A lot of doctors aren't cut from the same cloth as him, which are also rare. There are people on this forum who went to ENTs trusting them and went in for simple tests and wax cleanings. And what happened? They got tinnitus from those procedures that those ENTs are well-versed in. Not every ENT is a Minbo Shim.

 

[JohnAdams]

He's not dumb. He's talking about how other doctors could fuck things up for people. No one is doubting Minbo, at least I'm not. I've discussed with you and I think he's a really good and great doctor, albeit rare. A lot of doctors aren't cut from the same cloth as him, which are also rare. There are people on this forum who went to ENTs trusting them and went in for simple tests and wax cleanings. And what happened? They got tinnitus from those procedures that those ENTs are well-versed in. Not every ENT is a Minbo Shim.

If you can't handle an intratympanic injection then you shouldn't be an ENT, you'd just be an NT. Like I mentioned previously, FX-322 and OTO-413, the only two real hearing loss drugs on the horizon, will need to be injected into the eardrum as well. So these ENTs better get practiced up.

And yeah, microsuction is a barbaric practice that has given many people hearing loss and should be banned.

 

[humptydumpty69]

@JohnAdams,

I sometimes don't enjoy interacting with you because you have a tendency towards passive aggression (liking my post) and insults when anyone has a dissenting comment or opinion.

Fortunately you do not have complications in your eardrum, you are one person, you are also young; that does not negate the risks. Also, even with healing, there is the potential for distortion regarding the scar tissue.

You choose not to comment on the fact that we do not have the specifics of this therapy, and there are some secrets for some reason. It is difficult to go to an ENT and recommend something in which we are not fully informed about.

I will be on guard for kisses.

 

[JohnAdams]

I sometimes don't enjoy interacting with you because you have a tendency towards passive aggression (liking my post) and insults when anyone has a dissenting comment or opinion.

No, I just don't enjoy people spreading disinformation like you just did about my results being negligible. I know I haven't posted my audiograms yet so you don't know anything tangible. I've got "stuff" happening and I promise everything will be made clear soon. All you have is my word at this point and that's fine to distrust. After all, to most of you I'm just some words on a website on the internet.

 

[GSC]

If you can't handle an intratympanic injection then you shouldn't be an ENT, you'd just be an NT.

And yeah, microsuction is a barbaric practice that has given many people hearing loss and should be banned.

And I agree with that. An intratympanic injection and prednisone should be basic protocol. But that's the world we live in, where some doctors choose their pride and old textbook studies over what actually works, or could be helpful in aiding a patient. MY DOCTORS IN ER AND ENTs DIDN'T EVEN SEE AN ACOUSTIC TRAUMA AS AN EMERGENCY... They made me wait a month.

Look, the reality is, you researched something and you came onto something that helped you. That has the potential, and from what I know, proof to help everyone. But you're lucky, John. You're blessed in a sense. You have a job that allowed you to go to Korea to do this, a supportive family. You found a GOOD doctor, and you had the income/savings sacrifice to make this happen for yourself. Not everyone HAS that here. If there were more doctors like Minbo Shim here - here and tangible - I'm sure a shit ton of people would try it. But everyone has been trying to find doctors that can even begin to understand them.

 

[humptydumpty69]

@JohnAdams,

When I read your results and experiences, I compare them to @attheedgeofscience's reduction of 50% tinnitus from MSCs, and his violent ear resets. PRP is a comparable concept regarding therapy, and so far it seems to be inferior when we are concerned with its efficacy. On this forum we have more people who have undergone genuine stem cell procedures than PRP, and so far, we have mixed stem cell results, but the ones who have results, seem to have better results than you. Not to mention, both procedures generally are executed outside of The West, and are both costly procedures. I find it logical to compare them.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@JohnAdams,

When I read your results and experiences, I compare them to @attheedgeofscience's reduction of 50% tinnitus from MSCs, and his violent ear resets. PRP is a comparable concept regarding therapy, and so far it seems to be inferior when we are concerned with its efficacy. On this forum we have more people who have undergone genuine stem cell procedures than PRP, and so far, we have mixed stem cell results, but the ones who have results, seem to have better results than you. Not to mention, both procedures generally are executed outside of The West, and are both costly procedures. I find it logical to compare them.

umm @JohnAdams had both MSC and PRP. And the west uses PRP frequently. It has been more widely studied and applied than MSCs (because of the lower risk profile). PRP is even a billable CPT code under certain insurance companies. I had my PRP (knee) done by a Orthopedic Surgeon in a major US hospital system.

I'm not sure how you can even begin to question its efficacy. There is not even a universal standard for the centrifuge, how many platelets, for what type of growth etc. I had a torn meniscus (for two years) with no change that has shown repair following PRP (6 months).

 

[humptydumpty69]

@kelpiemsp,

I'm not sure that we know for sure if he had MSCs, but if he did, they are much fewer in number than the genuine procedures; and also, they are less potent being autologous. Regardless, I'm only concerned with the ears, and more concerned with the anecdotal experiences of this website that we are all relying on. The West may use PRP frequently, but where is a clinic in which we can have Shim's procedure done other than there? That is the whole point of this discussion, John is suggesting that we go to our ENTs.

 

[Arseny]

I believe that Dr. Shim is charging you depending on a degree and origin of your hearing loss.

When I contacted him in December he charged me less than 9000$ and said that I'll need to come for 1 week only instead of two. My audiogram showed 15 dB dip at 16000 Hz in left ear.

I didn't have the full sum of money and the bank denied the loan so I couldn't go unfortunately.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp,

I'm not sure that we know for sure if he had MSCs, but if he did, they are much fewer in number than the genuine procedures; and also, they are less potent being autologous. Regardless, I'm only concerned with the ears, and more concerned with the anecdotal experiences of this website that we are all relying on. The West may use PRP frequently, but where is a clinic in which we can have Shim's procedure done other than there? That is the whole point of this discussion, John is suggesting that we go to our ENTs.

I'm not relying on anecdotal experience so speak for yourself. Secondly, PRP is a proven "safe" technology. At this point market demand is what is preventing US ENTs from using it.

 

[humptydumpty69]

@kelpiemsp,

Yes, you may not be, but many people do and are. Everybody waiting to see John's audiograms are in some way invested in the anecdotal evidence. And PRP in general is very different than whatever specifically Shim is doing. There are so many peripheral and subsidiary aspects of his therapy. John was suggesting that we get here what Shim is doing there, what you are talking about is something potentially very different.

 

[humptydumpty69]

@JohnAdams,

Arseny was attempting to get a bank loan to go to Shim. I just want you to consider the severity of that when you are galvanizing people to action with your posts, before you even have your audiograms out; and before you even went to Shim you were constantly talking about PRP being "the cure". As I've told you in the past, many people only read and do not post. You have a cult following, as I'm sure you are aware; there is responsibility that comes with that.

 

[humptydumpty69]

I'd like to reiterate to readers that I do not have qualms with PRP or Shim, I am just considering practicality for the average sufferer. If you have money to throw around, and are conscious of the risks, then this could be an option; but taking out a bank loan is something that should only be done when we are very confident of a life changing experience. I am not trying to single out Arseny in this regard, I can't know his thought processes, but I'm sure that there are many others who would and have considered a bank loan out of desperation; which is why I think we should all be realistic as possible, and help to suppress that kind of thought process or action. In general, definitive statements about something that we all still know very little about is a bit rash.

As an afterthought, I would like to say to @JohnAdams again that I am very appreciative of his account and the fact that he made the decision to go to Shim for himself and for the community.

 

[JohnAdams]

On this forum we have more people who have undergone genuine stem cell procedures than PRP,

What do you think he is getting from bone marrow my friend? It rhymes with mesychymal stem cells.

 

[JohnAdams]

I'm not sure that we know for sure if he had MSCs, but if he did, they are much fewer in number than the genuine procedures;

Here you go again, making statements that you have no idea about. STOP THAT. PLEEAAASE!!!!

I had my bone marrow taken 6 times. So if anything, I probably had way more than normal.