South Korean Clinic Treatment (Dr. Minbo Shim)
- Thread starter vaka
- Start date
bill 112
Member
Also will I email Dr.Shim and explain to him why we are so interested in his treatment,that he doesn't have to give us specifics but just a general overview of the treatment and how it's suppose to work in theory.
I can explain to him that if he's transparent with us to a degree that it would open up a lot more potential over seas customers for him.
How are we suppose to trust this guy when he gives us literally zero to work with?
Unique Access in Bangkok are extremely open and explain absolutely everything in detail not to mention the strict questionnaire about your health to ascertain how to treat you in the most efficient way.I've literally sent about 20 health records to them at their request,they didn't just say"yeah come on over and we'll do this thing"like many other clinics I was talking to.Unique have been very professional in my opinion,also I researched the doctor administering the treatment and he's a highly qualified doctor and also researches Stemcells so pretty impressive guy if it all stands true.
Dr.Shim's record is solid too but his transparency leaves much to be desired for.
I can explain to him that if he's transparent with us to a degree that it would open up a lot more potential over seas customers for him.
How are we suppose to trust this guy when he gives us literally zero to work with?
Unique Access in Bangkok are extremely open and explain absolutely everything in detail not to mention the strict questionnaire about your health to ascertain how to treat you in the most efficient way.I've literally sent about 20 health records to them at their request,they didn't just say"yeah come on over and we'll do this thing"like many other clinics I was talking to.Unique have been very professional in my opinion,also I researched the doctor administering the treatment and he's a highly qualified doctor and also researches Stemcells so pretty impressive guy if it all stands true.
Dr.Shim's record is solid too but his transparency leaves much to be desired for.
Member- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Why not wait until October so you can save half of money if it turns out to be lies?
Though, honestly, if I had all the money, I would probably go immediately.
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
Guys I hope you indeed decide to go there as pioneers, in cse of positive outcome I would be the second one in a row to go.
I read your introduction thread and I don't know but i feel like your T might come from the brain... I think that you'd benefit more from what ATEOS has but maybe I'm wrong. do you have H or reactive T or is your T just constant ?
Hopefully it will work for you anyway
I read your introduction thread and I don't know but i feel like your T might come from the brain... I think that you'd benefit more from what ATEOS has but maybe I'm wrong. do you have H or reactive T or is your T just constant ?
Hopefully it will work for you anyway
Well my left ear is screaming a bit higher i think so go figure. I got T after being to gunrange and two loud movies in a row (that morning i had not T, after my day out i end up with flying jet engine in my head).
T constant, i have a bit of H in my left ear, very mild i think but can get discomfort from noisy place at times.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Again, if you want to see if you can get more information about him, please see if you can get the attention of Seoul South Korea's St. Mary Clinic, South Korea Ministry of Health & Welfare, and the Korean Clinic Research Information Service. These are the best ways to learn about him. I sincerely hope people do this.
I had already got information from the Stanford Heller Lab, and they said he did indeed visit for about a week for Stem Cell related stuff, however this is all I know.
I honestly am leaning towards believing he is genuine. I have had mostly good experience swapping emails with him, though mostly I have avoided the core subject just wanting to learn about him and his knowledge. But it's right to be skeptical, so trying to investigate him further into detail is definitely good.
I am clearly obsessing about this. I think we are on to something, but he is still an enigma.
bill 112
Member
I'll try and dig more info on him but it won't be as easy as emailing the hospital he works at,he'll most likely become aware that there's people emailing the hospital asking all sorts of bizarre questions.Regardless,I'm going to start my digging now.
I wouldn't get too excited about him just yet,he's still very elusive and non compliant with normal genuine questions that any patient would ask his/her doctor before treatment.
I'm not asking him to tell me his secret but to just elaborate a little on what the procedure entails,he wouldn't even tell me if he uses SC's or not.
You have to ask yourself the question,why?
You could say he doesn't want people knowing his technic but that's not what we're asking for,we're just asking for general info that by no means would put his treatment secret in danger so why the extreme avoidance of such questions with threats of blocking you for asking anymore questions.
How are you meant to jump on a plane and fly to Korea if this is what your dealing with,what's he going to be like when you get there?Just silence,inject you and that'll be $6000 please.
The other thing it might be is,if he explains what it is and we say it to someone whose knowledgable on SC's and regeneration and they say that it's absolutely impossible that it will do anything,then that exposes his scam or it proves that this treatment is completely ineffective thus stopping any potential customers,he'd rather you not know that and hope you get the placebo effect and guess what,it worked!
Looking at some of his results,well the one result I seen at least it showed an improvement of 5db?
Audiologists call that the margin of error meaning that could be their own mistake not to mention he could have just smudged the results a little to convince them it done something,nobody's going to actually notice a 5db improvement in hearing.
I seen someone say one of his patients had a 20db improvement?Until I talk to that patient I won't believe it not to mention those results could have easily been smudged.
It's all a giant big"who the hell knows"
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I have read through all his audiograms. A significant number if them have results of 10-20 db regain. He also posts a lot on his main websites, so check out updatemed.com and goldnose.co.kr.
Cheong-Min is his clinic. He used to be at St. Mary Clinic, which also has historical value in South Korea.
He has opened up plenty to me. Though bad English, he said he primarily uses growth factor, which there is actually some science behind. He does use stem cells, but that's not his main thing.
There are a couple of things we do know, and I agree with what you're saying @bill 112
One of the most important tenants of the scientific method is creating results that are reproducible by others. Until Dr. Shim has had his technique verified by the extended medical community (which it seems he has has not), then his treatment is as clinically effective as banging your head against the wall. Even if it does "work", there is no guarantee that it will continue to work in 6 months, won't cause cancerous growths, won't make hearing worse later, or any other myriad complications that could come from an unstudied and guarded medical procedure such as this one.
I know a lot of us here are desperate and we feel a lot of pain (I myself have T that is umaskable and my own "ear fund"), but I'm highly advising anyone here to save their money. I know a lot of us spite the medical community, but there are reasons we put regulations on procedures and there is a method to the madness that Dr. Shim is not above.
Even if we know what kind of procedure he performs, there is no medical consensus on any treatment for hearing loss or tinnitus and as such the risk will stay the same.
Even if he says "I use X growth factor with Y stem cells injected into the Z" that means zero to us without the research backing it. In the end it's any individuals choice whether or not to proceed with the treatment, but nothing we find out will make this any "safer" or "sure" barring a full release of peer reviewed papers authored by Dr. Shim explaining the treatment in detail - and further validated studies from third parties that back his findings - and clinical trials that prove the efficacy of these results. I don't mean to be a debbie downer here and I was on board earlier in the thread, but after seeing more and more about him it's clear to me that we are not going to get the answers we want because they don't exist.
Has Cheong-Min invented a formula that nobody else knows about yet? or is he just much further, with the same technique as the big companys are working with.
Did you show unique access this ?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4491783/
If they can perform this I think we'll probably be fixed
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
IMHO dr. Shim is injecting growth factors (probabely NT3) via intratympanic injection, this is something that Liberman and Maison (Decibel) consider doing to regenerate synapses and nerve fibers. The difference is Decibel is still around 2 years before clinical trials for that and Minbo Shim is doing it right now.
Okay so i will cross my fingers, that when Decibel come so far that they will get just as "good" results as Minbo Shim
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I've recently heard from one of the scientists / audiologist in Poland that there is a clinical trial coming very soon in China to deliver growth factors (NT3) to the inner ear with a use of virus through the blood circulatory system instead of incjecting them via intratympanic injection. Again the goal is to regenerate synapses and nerve fibers and repair hidden hearing loss which is believed to cause tinnitus. Looking how in different parts of the world scientists investigate growth factors potential to help us makes me believe there is something in it. The unanswered question is how to efficiently deliver them into cochlea and make them to their job with regeneration and tinnitus suppression.
I don't really trust Chinese clinical trials...
http://www.sciencealert.com/80-of-the-data-in-chinese-clinical-trial-is-fabricated
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
It's supposed to be run in cooperation with Polish scientist so in my view it's quite trustworthy
bill 112
Member
Ok,I have to write this for all H and T sufferers to read.To me it is absolute confirmation that T and H are a direct result of small fibre neuropathy in our case peripharel/auditory neuropathy.
My H started in January 2014,there was no pain just a complete intolerance or sensitivity to sound.
I improved to nearly cured over the next two years when I began experiencing new symptoms,a burning stinging electric feeling in my neck and head.This symptom was intermittent at the time but it slowly and slowly progressed to where I collapsed entirely in January this year.The pain was all over my body now,my skin was sensitive to touch,my body stung and burned along with my head and face and my sensitivity had increased seven fold.
I went to my neuro and he started giving me all the nervous system malarkey but I knew in my heart he was wrong,that this was something a lot more sinister.I went to my audiologist who performed a hearing test on me and everything checked out,that was until he done a speech recognition test really loudly into my ears.I pulled the headset off and left there and then but my symptoms has now intensified 100 times worse.
I lay in a wreck at home,not knowing what the hell was happening me.Months had passed and I got somewhat better and of course I had to make some money to support myself so had no choice but to go back to work.I slowly worsened and worsened yet again to where my symptoms are all on overdrive as a result and I'm stuck in the mess where I am now.
I found a new neurologist and went to see him today,he done extensive tests on me throughout the day,my symptoms are as follows
-Hyperacusis
-Tinnitus
-Full body skin stinging and burning caused by sound
-Head stings and burns along with face(Trigeminal Neuralgia)
-Sensitive to touch,prickly skin feeling
-Vomiting
-Distortion
-Jaw pain
-Hot ears
And there's more.
Anyway here are the results,even the neuro was perplexed by the whole thing.
-Recent MRI was absolutely clear
-Blood tests came back normal(no diabetes)
-Cranial nerve tests,all nerves functioning normally,no lesions or damage as checked on recent MRI.
-Cognitive and brain functioning tests all normal
-Full body nerve tests,all normal
-No trapped nerves in neck or head,spine is straight.
He literally checked every single thing there is to check on me,and his diagnosis was idiopathic peripharel neuropathy.
That all my symptoms were textbook of peripharel neuropathy but that it was odd as from what he could tell all my peripharel nerves are functioning normally,there's been trauma to them,no diabetes or other nerve damaging conditions that could be causing this.
He then said"the only nerve that can be causing these symptoms that I can't objectively test is your auditory nerve,but your auditory nerve can't send out pain signals so that's impossible,that or your neuropathy is simply small and undetectable but considering the severity of your symptoms I don't believe that to be the case not to mention it's all triggered by sound"
I then showed him the recent research by Libermann and pain sensing fibres in the auditory nerve and he was amazed as he hadn't heard about it.
He just said"well that makes perfect sense now doesn't it,your next stop is an audiologist to get a BAR test done,if it's damaged I would imagine something would show up there"
Now,there's no way in hell I'm doing a BAR test,it's like firing a gun into your ears from what I heard so that will simply never happen with me not to mention how idiotic audiologists can be with H patients.
This was the first neuro who actually investigated me rather than push me out the door with TRT leaflets like they usually do,but to me at least it's only concreting my belief that this is from auditory neuropathy,not haircells or anything else other than the auditory nerve.
All my peripharel nerves and CNS system are working fine but yet I have peripharel neuropathy and the only nerve they can't objectively test is my auditory nerve.
They could see it on my scan and there are no lesions there or obvious trauma but the fact that my symptoms are consistent with that of small fibre neuropathy,it's simply undetectable from a scan and a much more accurate test is needed i.e the BAR.
He also done a few nerve blocks on my cranial nerves to ascertain whether they were causing it and none gave me any real relief,they made my head numb and yet I could still feel my body stinging regardless,according to him if let's say my trigeminal nerve was at fault a nerve block would stop all pain temporarily,but it didn't.
So make of that what you will but it's quite obvious to me now after these investigations that it could only be auditory nerve based.We've eliminated nearly everything now,everything except the auditory nerve.
My H started in January 2014,there was no pain just a complete intolerance or sensitivity to sound.
I improved to nearly cured over the next two years when I began experiencing new symptoms,a burning stinging electric feeling in my neck and head.This symptom was intermittent at the time but it slowly and slowly progressed to where I collapsed entirely in January this year.The pain was all over my body now,my skin was sensitive to touch,my body stung and burned along with my head and face and my sensitivity had increased seven fold.
I went to my neuro and he started giving me all the nervous system malarkey but I knew in my heart he was wrong,that this was something a lot more sinister.I went to my audiologist who performed a hearing test on me and everything checked out,that was until he done a speech recognition test really loudly into my ears.I pulled the headset off and left there and then but my symptoms has now intensified 100 times worse.
I lay in a wreck at home,not knowing what the hell was happening me.Months had passed and I got somewhat better and of course I had to make some money to support myself so had no choice but to go back to work.I slowly worsened and worsened yet again to where my symptoms are all on overdrive as a result and I'm stuck in the mess where I am now.
I found a new neurologist and went to see him today,he done extensive tests on me throughout the day,my symptoms are as follows
-Hyperacusis
-Tinnitus
-Full body skin stinging and burning caused by sound
-Head stings and burns along with face(Trigeminal Neuralgia)
-Sensitive to touch,prickly skin feeling
-Vomiting
-Distortion
-Jaw pain
-Hot ears
And there's more.
Anyway here are the results,even the neuro was perplexed by the whole thing.
-Recent MRI was absolutely clear
-Blood tests came back normal(no diabetes)
-Cranial nerve tests,all nerves functioning normally,no lesions or damage as checked on recent MRI.
-Cognitive and brain functioning tests all normal
-Full body nerve tests,all normal
-No trapped nerves in neck or head,spine is straight.
He literally checked every single thing there is to check on me,and his diagnosis was idiopathic peripharel neuropathy.
That all my symptoms were textbook of peripharel neuropathy but that it was odd as from what he could tell all my peripharel nerves are functioning normally,there's been trauma to them,no diabetes or other nerve damaging conditions that could be causing this.
He then said"the only nerve that can be causing these symptoms that I can't objectively test is your auditory nerve,but your auditory nerve can't send out pain signals so that's impossible,that or your neuropathy is simply small and undetectable but considering the severity of your symptoms I don't believe that to be the case not to mention it's all triggered by sound"
I then showed him the recent research by Libermann and pain sensing fibres in the auditory nerve and he was amazed as he hadn't heard about it.
He just said"well that makes perfect sense now doesn't it,your next stop is an audiologist to get a BAR test done,if it's damaged I would imagine something would show up there"
Now,there's no way in hell I'm doing a BAR test,it's like firing a gun into your ears from what I heard so that will simply never happen with me not to mention how idiotic audiologists can be with H patients.
This was the first neuro who actually investigated me rather than push me out the door with TRT leaflets like they usually do,but to me at least it's only concreting my belief that this is from auditory neuropathy,not haircells or anything else other than the auditory nerve.
All my peripharel nerves and CNS system are working fine but yet I have peripharel neuropathy and the only nerve they can't objectively test is my auditory nerve.
They could see it on my scan and there are no lesions there or obvious trauma but the fact that my symptoms are consistent with that of small fibre neuropathy,it's simply undetectable from a scan and a much more accurate test is needed i.e the BAR.
He also done a few nerve blocks on my cranial nerves to ascertain whether they were causing it and none gave me any real relief,they made my head numb and yet I could still feel my body stinging regardless,according to him if let's say my trigeminal nerve was at fault a nerve block would stop all pain temporarily,but it didn't.
So make of that what you will but it's quite obvious to me now after these investigations that it could only be auditory nerve based.We've eliminated nearly everything now,everything except the auditory nerve.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
There is an animation of his showing how it is done. He pokes through the ear drum and injects directly into the round-window of cochlea, and then I think lets it sit for 30 minutes.
I am not questioning the theoretical science to it, as there is some basis to it, but I just want some actual documents. I want people to try and get the attention of the establishments associated with his certificates, to see if they are genuine. That is the main thing that needs to be done.
bill 112
Member
I noticed also that his patients speech recognition improved after treatment and if the theory that auditory synapses are responsible for speech perception in noise then this would suggest that it does improve synaptic connections.
The only thing is however,is that all of these reports are anecdotal,he has hearing test results but they could easily be fabricated.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
On his korean sites, he has dozens, perhaps a couple of a hundred examples.
I try to think logically about this, which is why I am rather bewildered.
It is illogical for a scam artist to freely attach his name to something that could easily be proven false, and then say his practice was approved by the government. It is illogical for a scam artist to travel across the world meeting people like Stefan Heller and spending thousands of dollars on flights, media crew, plausible actors, etc, and have his colleagues exposed through his Facebook page, while also risking his ENT practice. He isn't at all quiet about this, so if he was lying his entire life would quickly fall apart.
But as people previously said, the logicistics of being closed off about his treatment is also debatable. He is truly an enigma.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
What do you mean?Can someone explain to me what all this means with 2 lines or something. ;D Thanks alot
They are talking about injecting growth factors (NT3) into the ear and that kind of stuff what would that do it that happens cure T? Like i dont really understand all this sience stuff people are talking about because im a little new to this
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
NT3 is important for nerve health. It has shown to help repair synaptic damage of the ear by scientists. The ribbon synpase are important for communicating the inner ear to the haircells. Think of it as a wire/connector. If the ribbon synapse is damaged, hearing quality degrades especially speech, and there is evidence it may also be a cause of tinnitus.They are talking about injecting growth factors (NT3) into the ear and that kind of stuff what would that do it that happens cure T? Like i dont really understand all this sience stuff people are talking about because im a little new to this
However, there are various types of growth factors. I have no idea what Minbo Shim supposedly uses, but he takes from bone marrow and blood.
Anyway, I have just contacted South Korea's Ministry of Health & Welfare page. Hopefully they answer, and if they have information I will be one step closer to getting to bottom of this. Perhaps their answer could be the thing needed.
3ri0w
Member
- Nov 25, 2015
- 398
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012, H 2016, 12/2018(?)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud noises, ringing came back 12/2018 after 1year of silent
What was the name of the test? Really wrong that your symptoms got worse after trying to get help
What is a BAR test too?Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
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