2020 US Presidential Election

[PeteJ]

Not for nothing, but @Christiaan did reply (very patiently and with a genuine interest in trying to understand your point of view) to you and you called him a liar for relaying his personal experience.

He refuted your points and your counter argument was that he's just a liar. Who in their right mind would want to engage in that kind of discourse?

Bull. He said that the problems there are "exaggerated" and I explained how it wasn't with proof. So, he's either incredibly naiive or lying.

He also took issue with a source which I showed it's not wrong. He was patronizing which I objected to. It's not my fault if you're too stupid to see it. You brainwashed people are pathetic.

 

[PeteJ]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/05/murder-rape-mps-want-answers-on-asylum-seeker-crime-figures/

Christian shrugged off my explanations so it was not *refuted*!

He also talked about *alleged* violence as if it's questionable or arguable. I could bombard his email with constant videos and articles if there's doubt. It's ridiculous.

As for the Netherlands, granted he's there and I am not but don't assume I am not knowledgeable about political events there or can't research.

Unless, it's no big deal when a Minister resigns. I guess when sources don't align with your political belief system, you dismiss everything, facts included. I give up, man.

 

[just1morething]

For he's a jolly good fellow, for Pete's a jolly good fellow, for Trump's a jolly good fellow which nobody can deny. I suppose they could deny, but we're all good friends right? And we certainly don't want to bicker. Arguing and anger never gets anyone anywhere, so what's the point?

Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal —JFK.

 

[Lucifer]

Oh shit I thought Kanye West running for President 2020 was a joke but he's actually serious.

What are your opinions on this? To be honest I think this is a way for Donald Trump to be reelected again by taking away the Biden supporters. A vote for West is a vote for Trump.

 

[Christiaan]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/05/murder-rape-mps-want-answers-on-asylum-seeker-crime-figures/

Christian shrugged off my explanations so it was not *refuted*!

He also talked about *alleged* violence as if it's questionable or arguable. I could bombard his email with constant videos and articles if there's doubt. It's ridiculous.

As for the Netherlands, granted he's there and I am not but don't assume I am not knowledgeable about political events there or can't research.

Unless, it's no big deal when a Minister resigns. I guess when sources don't align with your political belief system, you dismiss everything, facts included. I give up, man.

If someone wants to substantiate his arguments, it seems better to refrain from calling someone names @PeteJ. That's counterproductive & doesn't serve the conversation. I guess everybody would gladly engage in a conversation with one another if they don't use provocative terms.

About the article: the state secretary (a level lower than minister) made a huge mistake by putting the stats of ''murder/ manslaughter'' in the category ''other'', but the thing is that there was no such thing committed by any asylum seeker during the current term of the Rutte administration. If we're talking about crime rates of asylum seekers, then we're talking about 2,2 % of asylum seekers (https://www.vluchtelingenwerk.nl/publicaties/webartikelen/cijfers-overheid-overlast-asielzoekers). But it's way too easy to blame an entire group for mistakes made by a minority. They are not cut out of the same wood, as we like to say here. A lot of asylum seekers just want to have a better future because they are not allowed to profess their religion elsewhere, to be themselves (sexual orientation), economical distress or political orientation. And sometimes it's better to talk about people than stats alone. They are more than that. What I see in my country (Amsterdam, Utrecht, The Hague, Rotterdam) are multicultural neighbourhoods where people care for one another, work hard and are willingly to actively participate in Dutch society. They are in my view an asset.

If you want to reply to me, it's better to PM, because this all is not really on-topic anymore

 

[Christiaan]

Oh shit I thought Kanye West running for President 2020 was a joke but he's actually serious.

What are your opinions on this? To be honest I think this is a way for Donald Trump to be reelected again by taking away the Biden supporters. A vote for West is a vote for Trump.

It seems that even Elon Musk is willing to vote for him So don't quickly underestimate the guy.

But seriously, what would be his platform? It's not the case that a lot of Americans are going to use their protest vote for him instead of Greens or Libertarians?

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Just like my father said as a young one growing up.

Two things you do not discuss, one is religion the other is politics, because as sure as hell it will lead you down a blind alley, and possibly a black eye.

 

[Lucifer]

It seems that even Elon Musk is willing to vote for him So don't quickly underestimate the guy.

But seriously, what would be his platform? It's not the case that a lot of Americans are going to use their protest vote for him instead of Greens or Libertarians?

I wouldn't be surprised if Kanye West ended up winning the election. We saw what happened last time when we all thought Clinton would win and turn out most of the electoral college votes voted for Trump. I was shocked when that happened.

I was thinking maybe Elon Musk is going to help Kanye West become president by paying for his presidential campaign. In return Elon Musk could get some tax benefits from opening new gigafactories etc if Kanye West ends up becoming President.

 

[FGG]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kanye West ended up winning the election. We saw what happened last time when we all thought Clinton would win and turn out most of the electoral college votes voted for Trump. I was shocked when that happened.

I was thinking maybe Elon Musk is going to help Kanye West become president by paying for his presidential campaign. In return Elon Musk could get some tax benefits from opening new gigafactories etc if Kanye West ends up becoming President.

There is literally no way in the world he would win the general election. For one, no one ever wins without being the party nominee.

His running does seem like a ploy to take away Biden votes but I don't see it working. Not with Kanye anyway.

 

[Tanni]

There is literally no way in the world he would win the general election.

Where have we all heard this before

 

[PeteJ]

If someone wants to substantiate his arguments, it seems better to refrain from calling someone names @PeteJ. That's counterproductive & doesn't serve the conversation. I guess everybody would gladly engage in a conversation with one another if they don't use provocative terms.

About the article: the state secretary (a level lower than minister) made a huge mistake by putting the stats of ''murder/ manslaughter'' in the category ''other'', but the thing is that there was no such thing committed by any asylum seeker during the current term of the Rutte administration. If we're talking about crime rates of asylum seekers, then we're talking about 2,2 % of asylum seekers (https://www.vluchtelingenwerk.nl/publicaties/webartikelen/cijfers-overheid-overlast-asielzoekers). But it's way too easy to blame an entire group for mistakes made by a minority. They are not cut out of the same wood, as we like to say here. A lot of asylum seekers just want to have a better future because they are not allowed to profess their religion elsewhere, to be themselves (sexual orientation), economical distress or political orientation. And sometimes it's better to talk about people than stats alone. They are more than that. What I see in my country (Amsterdam, Utrecht, The Hague, Rotterdam) are multicultural neighbourhoods where people care for one another, work hard and are willingly to actively participate in Dutch society. They are in my view an asset.

If you want to reply to me, it's better to PM, because this all is not really on-topic anymore

That's false. If I think you are lying, then I will say so. I didn't call you a name. That's another lie. If I call you a name, it will be obvious. The only thing I agree with is it's off topic. However, there is a lot of false statements by liberals on this thread. They don't want to deal with others who call them out.

 

[FGG]

Where have we all heard this before

I'd like to think we are capable of learning though!

 

[FGG]

That's false. If I think you are lying, then I will say so. I didn't call you a name. That's another lie. If I call you a name, it will be obvious. The only thing I agree with is it's off topic. However, there is a lot of false statements by liberals on this thread. They don't want to deal with others who call them out.

Let's recap. You called someone a liar after they relayed their personal experience because you read something in a source you like that paints a different picture.

You won't even entertain the idea that @Christiaan (who is, you know, physically living there) might know a thing or two about the situation. Nope. He has to be a liar. And *somehow* that isn't name calling?

Maybe in a vacuum it wouldn't read quite as bad but you have also called everyone on this thread who disagreed with you "nutjobs" and "hypocrites." And even proclaimed "liberals are evil." Not to mention directly insinuated numerous people (me included) were "stupid."

So I have to ask, what would actual "name calling" look like to you? "Fucktard"? "Literal Satan"? Is anything short of that respectful discourse?

 

[Christiaan]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kanye West ended up winning the election. We saw what happened last time when we all thought Clinton would win and turn out most of the electoral college votes voted for Trump. I was shocked when that happened.

I was thinking maybe Elon Musk is going to help Kanye West become president by paying for his presidential campaign. In return Elon Musk could get some tax benefits from opening new gigafactories etc if Kanye West ends up becoming President.

There is literally no way in the world he would win the general election. For one, no one ever wins without being the party nominee.

His running does seem like a ploy to take away Biden votes but I don't see it working. Not with Kanye anyway.

There are talks in the media about Trump that he might drop off because he is polling badly. So is there any possibility that the Republican National Committee could assign a different candidate? My take is that Kanye West would definitely be a better candidate than Lindsey Graham, Mike Pence or Mitch McConnell. At least you're not potentially stuck to someone who still lives in 1960's America.

 

[FGG]

There are talks in the media about Trump that he might drop off because he is polling badly. So is there any possibility that the Republican National Committee could assign a different candidate? My take is that Kanye West would definitely be a better candidate than Lindsey Graham, Mike Pence or Mitch McConnell. At least you're not potentially stuck to someone who still lives in 1960's America.

If nothing else, it would massively upset the Vegas election prediction market.

 

[Zugzug]

@Christiaan seems like the least confrontational person I've come across on the internet lol.

 

[Zugzug]

There are talks in the media about Trump that he might drop off because he is polling badly. So is there any possibility that the Republican National Committee could assign a different candidate? My take is that Kanye West would definitely be a better candidate than Lindsey Graham, Mike Pence or Mitch McConnell. At least you're not potentially stuck to someone who still lives in 1960's America.

My opinions on this:

1) No way they replace Trump. It would be a sure loss. I think Trump's strategy is to feed into the overconfidence of him losing so that more people on the fence stay home.

2) Kanye has actually no chance of becoming president. I know we said this before with Trump, but the polls showed he had a legit chance, just lower than Hillary's. He could, however, play a spoiler role.

 

[PeteJ]

Let's recap. You called someone a liar after they relayed their personal experience because you read something in a source you like that paints a different picture.

You won't even entertain the idea that @Christiaan (who is, you know, physically living there) might know a thing or two about the situation. Nope. He has to be a liar. And *somehow* that isn't name calling?

Maybe in a vacuum it wouldn't read quite as bad but you have also called everyone on this thread who disagreed with you "nutjobs" and "hypocrites." And even proclaimed "liberals are evil." Not to mention directly insinuated numerous people (me included) were "stupid."

So I have to ask, what would actual "name calling" look like to you? "Fucktard"? "Literal Satan"? Is anything short of that respectful discourse?

It makes no difference if you're living there! You can still be brainwashed. You're living proof. He denied my claims. I don't care about his experiences. I am not assaulted everyday but I know what the situation is here. I presented articles about the Minister of Migration in his country stepping down because of a scandal to do with migrant crime and other statistics and info. But, he didn't like the source.

The MSM won't cover it or sugarcoat the problems. That's why his head is in the sand and he only sees cookies and cream. If you're fortunate to be in a good area, you don't see anything or if you are brainwashed by MSM.

https://gatesofvienna.net/2020/05/self-deportation-the-solution-to-migrant-crime-in-the-netherlands/

You ignored most of my points about the violence and vandalism in your country, the radical left connections to the Democrats and many other points made but you CHOOSE THIS to respond to?!? Figures...

 

[PeteJ]

My opinions on this:

1) No way they replace Trump. It would be a sure loss. I think Trump's strategy is to feed into the overconfidence of him losing so that more people on the fence stay home.

2) Kanye has actually no chance of becoming president. I know we said this before with Trump, but the polls showed he had a legit chance, just lower than Hillary's. He could, however, play a spoiler role.

How?

 

[PeteJ]

The Gong Show in the USA is pretty sad.

 

[PeteJ]

If someone wants to substantiate his arguments, it seems better to refrain from calling someone names @PeteJ. That's counterproductive & doesn't serve the conversation. I guess everybody would gladly engage in a conversation with one another if they don't use provocative terms.

About the article: the state secretary (a level lower than minister) made a huge mistake by putting the stats of ''murder/ manslaughter'' in the category ''other'', but the thing is that there was no such thing committed by any asylum seeker during the current term of the Rutte administration. If we're talking about crime rates of asylum seekers, then we're talking about 2,2 % of asylum seekers (https://www.vluchtelingenwerk.nl/publicaties/webartikelen/cijfers-overheid-overlast-asielzoekers). But it's way too easy to blame an entire group for mistakes made by a minority. They are not cut out of the same wood, as we like to say here. A lot of asylum seekers just want to have a better future because they are not allowed to profess their religion elsewhere, to be themselves (sexual orientation), economical distress or political orientation. And sometimes it's better to talk about people than stats alone. They are more than that. What I see in my country (Amsterdam, Utrecht, The Hague, Rotterdam) are multicultural neighbourhoods where people care for one another, work hard and are willingly to actively participate in Dutch society. They are in my view an asset.

If you want to reply to me, it's better to PM, because this all is not really on-topic anymore

Most of the migrants and asylum seekers came from "safe countries" so your explanation is bogus. I don't want to reply to any more because I am tired of BS.

 

[FGG]

It makes no difference if you're living there! You can still be brainwashed. You're living proof. He denied my claims. I don't care about his experiences. I am not assaulted everyday but I know what the situation is here. I presented articles about the Minister of Migration in his country stepping down because of a scandal to do with migrant crime and other statistics and info. But, he didn't like the source.

The MSM won't cover it or sugarcoat the problems. That's why his head is in the sand and he only sees cookies and cream. If you're fortunate to be in a good area, you don't see anything or if you are brainwashed by MSM.

https://gatesofvienna.net/2020/05/self-deportation-the-solution-to-migrant-crime-in-the-netherlands/

You ignored most of my points about the violence and vandalism in your country, the radical left connections to the Democrats and many other points made but you CHOOSE THIS to respond to?!? Figures...

I did respond. I just didn't agree with you that the majority of the protesters were violent or that confederate statues needed to stay up to remember history (guess everyone forgot about the Berlin Wall since it got taken down...).

To you, it's not a "response" if it's not a unilateral agreement of your point of view. You are so utterly, unequivocally convinced that you have the absolute correct perspective on everything that anything not met with "wow you are right! Liberals are violent Marxist scumbags!" Counts as "ignoring the issues" to you.

You absolutely will not accept any point of view but your own and then blame anyone who responds to you for not framing the issues the way you do.

Edit: I hate my tone in this post. I'm super irritated and I don't want to be and this is exactly why I don't want to respond. I should have just let it be.

 

[PeteJ]

For he's a jolly good fellow, for Pete's a jolly good fellow, for Trump's a jolly good fellow which nobody can deny. I suppose they could deny, but we're all good friends right? And we certainly don't want to bicker. Arguing and anger never gets anyone anywhere, so what's the point?

Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal —JFK.

I don't like when people are patronizing towards me or say things that are so blatantly false, I can only interpret them as lies.

I don't know how much you followed but I asked about violence and vandalism in the USA, far left connections etc which went unanswered. Then our Dutch friend said he *disagreed* with my views about *alleged* violence in the USA, Canada and Europe, practically denying there is any.

If that's not outrageous and patronizing enough, he's sugarcoating and denying claims I made about his country. I don't know what his profession is but my first guess would be politician.

 

[Tanni]

I don't like when people are patronizing towards me or say things that are so blatantly false, I can only interpret them as lies.

I don't know how much you followed but I asked about violence and vandalism in the USA, far left connections etc which went unanswered. Then our Dutch friend said he *disagreed* with my views about *alleged* violence in the USA, Canada and Europe, practically denying there is any.

If that's not outrageous and patronizing enough, he's sugarcoating and denying claims I made about his country. I don't know what his profession is but my first guess would be politician.

You can't see the irony in this post, can you?

On the plus side, I'm genuinely glad to see you're doing much better re the Tinnitus.

 

[Christiaan]

Most of the migrants and asylum seekers came from "safe countries" so your explanation is bogus. I don't want to reply to any more because I am tired of BS.

Ok, to be honest I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion & it's the last thing I'm going to say about what we discussed so far. Just trying to put every single thing into perspective as best as I can:

First of all, it's a mistake made by a Secretary of State (lower function than minister in our country).

Secondly, the Secretary had put the the stats of ''murder/manslaughter'' in category ''other'' ((which contains other aspects of less serious class of crime (e.g. petty thievery)) , so it looked like he was trying to hide something worse. It turned out he mishandled it and there was no single occurrence of murder/manslaughter (https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/nieuw-extern-onderzoek-naar-misdaadcijfers-asielzoekers~acf5a5c3/).

Thirdly, most migrants and asylum seekers come from other countries than Morocco and Algeria, Like Syria (https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/07/more-asylum-seekers-in-2018) .

Fourthly, it is not entirely safe for every person to remain in Morocco or Algeria (''safe countries'') if it concerns homosexuality or political orientation. If you're homosexual in Morocco, and if proven by court, you might get jailed for three years (https://nieuws.marokko.nl/57896/3200-mensen-vervolgd-voor-homoseksualiteit-of-overspel-in-2018/). You can also get jailed if you were part of a political organisation that wants to demands better rights for people in the rif mountain area in Morocco (https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/vrouwelijke-leider-rif-protesten-marokko-krijgt-asiel-in-nederland~ba4371ef/?referer=https://www.google.com/). It's mainly for these reasons why people ask asylum in other countries.

Another point, I do not share the opinion that BLM protests in USA and elsewhere should be equaled to violence. It's a complex issue. Most of these protests are peaceful and it's a democratic right in USA and in countries like mine to voice your opinion in the street to demand systematic chance to protect people of color. Sure, some people take advantage of protests and loot shops. But if your focus is on the minority of people who take advantage of BLM protests, you're overlooking the main gist that people demand justice for people of color. Their lives matter too.

And lastly, I was a student-teacher in English and French at a middle & high school, but the tinnitus stopped everything in its tracks.

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Politicians and diapers need to be changed often and for the same reason.

 

[Zugzug]

And lastly, I was a student-teacher in English and French at a middle & high school, but the tinnitus stopped everything in its tracks.

I'm so sorry. My career got demolished as well, right after I invested in a house. These conditions are so serious and would make the average person's spine crawl.

 

[Christiaan]

I'm so sorry. My career got demolished as well, right after I invested in a house. These conditions are so serious and would make the average person's spine crawl.

I'm sorry to hear that too @Zugzug It's incredible that almost nobody knows how much this silent disorder would impact someone's life. It doesn't even get news coverage around here. Nobody deserves this madness. Especially for someone like you, as you worked so hard to have great career prospects and a decent living. Only a miracle would help turn things around. We're all living on a prayer

 

[PeteJ]

Ok, to be honest I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion & it's the last thing I'm going to say about what we discussed so far. Just trying to put every single thing into perspective as best as I can:

First of all, it's a mistake made by a Secretary of State (lower function than minister in our country).

Secondly, the Secretary had put the the stats of ''murder/manslaughter'' in category ''other'' ((which contains other aspects of less serious class of crime (e.g. petty thievery)) , so it looked like he was trying to hide something worse. It turned out he mishandled it and there was no single occurrence of murder/manslaughter (https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/nieuw-extern-onderzoek-naar-misdaadcijfers-asielzoekers~acf5a5c3/).

Thirdly, most migrants and asylum seekers come from other countries than Morocco and Algeria, Like Syria (https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/07/more-asylum-seekers-in-2018) .

Fourthly, it is not entirely safe for every person to remain in Morocco or Algeria (''safe countries'') if it concerns homosexuality or political orientation. If you're homosexual in Morocco, and if proven by court, you might get jailed for three years (https://nieuws.marokko.nl/57896/3200-mensen-vervolgd-voor-homoseksualiteit-of-overspel-in-2018/). You can also get jailed if you were part of a political organisation that wants to demands better rights for people in the rif mountain area in Morocco (https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/vrouwelijke-leider-rif-protesten-marokko-krijgt-asiel-in-nederland~ba4371ef/?referer=https://www.google.com/). It's mainly for these reasons why people ask asylum in other countries.

Another point, I do not share the opinion that BLM protests in USA and elsewhere should be equaled to violence. It's a complex issue. Most of these protests are peaceful and it's a democratic right in USA and in countries like mine to voice your opinion in the street to demand systematic chance to protect people of color. Sure, some people take advantage of protests and loot shops. But if your focus is on the minority of people who take advantage of BLM protests, you're overlooking the main gist that people demand justice for people of color. Their lives matter too.

And lastly, I was a student-teacher in English and French at a middle & high school, but the tinnitus stopped everything in its tracks.

Everything you said is false and I posted articles that supports my argument. Second, the EU itself declared them safe countries. I am not declaring anything. Complain to them.

Third, violence from the BLM is a serious threat and problem in the USA. Maybe you're just asleep. Your assertions are really frustrating and annoying. If you choose to stop replying, that's your prerogative.

 

[PeteJ]

You can't see the irony in this post, can you?

On the plus side, I'm genuinely glad to see you're doing much better re the Tinnitus.

Piss off.