Suicidal

[Stacken77]

Thank you so much @Damocles for chiming in!

Me and you really need to talk one day

Definatily, man.

2) everyday noise around your house (dropping of a spoon for example) will not permanently worsen your tinnitus

I partially agree with this. In my own experience, dropping a spoon wont even cause a spike because I don't spike to low-moderate noises with a duration below ~3 seconds. It's when the duration is longer that it causes spikes, and the longer the duration, the more severe the spike is. I've had times where I engaged in conversations for 1 hour (with deeply inserted foam earplugs) and it has caused prolonged worsenings, most likely permanent ones, but as we know, it shouldn't have caused damage or hearing loss.

I personally don't believe tinnitus loudness is in direct correlation to the amount of hearing loss, although it's a major factor. I think spikes caused by the sensitivity of the auditory system can in turn generate more hyper-active neurons, i.e. increased loudness, without permanent structural damage done to the inner ear. There you go, just a theory of mine.

The problem is, I'm pretty sure that I'd increase my tinnitus permanently if I were to ditch the earplugs for a day, because my fridge humming which is below 30 dB from where I sit. There's no way on earth that would cause damage to the inner ear, but the sensitivity is just so ridiculous. It would be comparable to the previous experiment with pink noise I did, or driving a car with double protection - the aftermath is just insane.

I'm still waiting for my pink noise spike to recede, and if it does, I'm going to try another approach; using quick sounds for desensitisation, since I don't really spike to those. But we'll see.

Thanks again,
All the best to you,
Stacken

 

[Stacken77]

@Stacken77, I know, reactive tinnitus and hyperacusis really really stink. I've been wrestling both for 4 years. A few months ago I began taking a bunch of nootropics, brain boosting supplements. I can honestly say that I feel much calmer, they are really helping me. Although earlier my mom was watching a baseball game and her clapping set my left ear off like crazy and it's so frustrating! My poor mom can't enjoy a game without me saying, "please don't clap" -- it's absurd!! That's the way it goes though with these damn ears.

Anyway, I don't know if you take any supplements but I really recommend you check out the supplement thread and give some of them a shot... I take a ridiculous amount but I think they are all beneficial.

Take care of yourself.

I agree with Damocles, you will greatly improve but it may take a while, much longer than you would like....

Thank you @Mary97 for your kind words and for the recommendations, I'll definitely consider it.

I'm currently taking Magnesium and NAC regularly, sometimes Turmeric. Can't say that it has done a lot to be honest.

All the best to you,
Stacken

 

[Zugzug]

I hope I don't wake up tomorrow.

 

[Matchbox]

I hope I don't wake up tomorrow.

I know. I hate waking up to this shit. Hate. Hate. Hate hearing this symphony waking up.

Working is the only thing keeping me going, because the weekend all the joy I had to do things is gone.

Keep it together Zugzug, you need a long deserved improvement, once there's something out you better be the first guy they offer it to.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Durability waning here too. Reading about morality of suicide. Taking up most of my thinking time. I can wait out if there is hope of a treatment, but what is the closest of all the research. We are looking at least 18 months before Michigan Device, and one of the XEN potassium channel modulators could be available.

 

[Damocles]

I hope I don't wake up tomorrow.

You've got a lot to offer the world @Zugzug, you're a very intelligent guy, based on my observations; so personally (maybe selfishly) I hope you do.

 

[Kriszti]

I am not currently suicidal but depression and anxiety are consuming me. This issue had existed long before developing tinnitus, but not surprisingly it's hugely exacerbated by the ringing and the still present sleep deprivation. I used to be in therapy, but did not help my problems. I have been considering going back to a therapist for a while, although I don't expect that it would help the tinnitus itself.

I think at this point I need to address my frequent suicidal ideation. As I assume many of us here, I don't really want to die, I just can't fathom having to live with tinnitus forever.

My technical question would be: is it a myth that if you talk about suicidal ideation, you can easily end up in a psych ward? I would like to know how "freely" I can talk about it. It may differ from country to country, I don't know, but maybe there is a general ethical code/standard for therapists?

Some members' experience here with therapy freaked me out.

 

[Zugzug]

I am not currently suicidal but depression and anxiety are consuming me. This issue had existed long before developing tinnitus, but not surprisingly it's hugely exacerbated by the ringing and the still present sleep deprivation. I used to be in therapy, but did not help my problems. I have been considering going back to a therapist for a while, although I don't expect that it would help the tinnitus itself.

I think at this point I need to address my frequent suicidal ideation. As I assume many of us here, I don't really want to die, I just can't fathom having to live with tinnitus forever.

My technical question would be: is it a myth that if you talk about suicidal ideation, you can easily end up in a psych ward? I would like to know how "freely" I can talk about it. It may differ from country to country, I don't know, but maybe there is a general ethical code/standard for therapists?

Some members' experience here with therapy freaked me out.

I'm very sorry to hear this. You have plenty of company here, especially in this thread. I also know what it's like to have mental health problems before health problems. It's an unbelievably challenging thing to navigate because the mental health needs addressing, but it's also every doctor's favorite scapegoat for inaction. We can't win. I've told doctor's that I had OCD thinking it would simply provide them with more medical data on me, only to watch them flip it on me and say I'm "ruminating" about my issues. Now I just lie or only bring it up after the medical problem is taken seriously, unfortunately.

In my experiences in the US, I have successfully confided in multiple therapists about suicidal ideations. None of them seemed panicked or on the verge of shipping me off. I think suicidal ideation is quite common, and if we're being honest, is quite different from a bona fide plan. Really, it's quite different from even a rough plan in the works.

From my own reading and experiences, it seems like if the person has suicidal ideations with a strong aspect of I don't want to die, just want my life to improve, then the go-to is usually outpatient care like antidepressant protocols, mindfulness, CBT, etc. Of course, everyone feels this way, but I mean the level of confidence that it can ever happen.

Is your goal from therapy to avoid medication? If you want to try certain medications anyways and you wanted to be really safe, you could maybe wait to play up the suicidal ideations until after some time on the meds.

 

[Zugzug]

I know. I hate waking up to this shit. Hate. Hate. Hate hearing this symphony waking up.

Working is the only thing keeping me going, because the weekend all the joy I had to do things is gone.

Keep it together Zugzug, you need a long deserved improvement, once there's something out you better be the first guy they offer it to.

I'm sorry for your suffering, @Matchbox. It seems like the most "happiness" people can ever get these days are just distractions -- not real happiness. I hope things eventually turn for the better for you.

As far as being the first guy that a hearing drug is offered to, no way. I am literally the worst possible data point for a clinical trial. An immune system that attacks my own inner ears 24/7 and at various fluctuating degrees of intensity -- a very bad way to tell if a drug is working or if my disease is just less intense.

 

[Zugzug]

You've got a lot to offer the world @Zugzug, you're a very intelligent guy, based on my observations; so personally (maybe selfishly) I hope you do.

Those are actually very kind words, @Damocles (I enjoy many of your posts, btw). It's important to me to enhance someone's life. To not be a burden or "put up" with me or whatever. Like someone's life is actually better because I'm in it. It's truly hard to picture how that could possibly be the case, but thank you.

 

[Damocles]

Those are actually very kind words, @Damocles (I enjoy many of your posts, btw). It's important to me to enhance someone's life. To not be a burden or "put up" with me or whatever. Like someone's life is actually better because I'm in it. It's truly hard to picture how that could possibly be the case, but thank you.

Same to you @Zugzug. I like your posts a lot.

And I really mean it, you are a benefit to the world (you're just currently in suspended animation ... but that's not going to last forever).

Intelligent people are a rarity on this planet (did you know Idiocracy (2006) was a documentary?) and I, quite frankly, don't want to see this planet lose another one.

We're all going to get through this, you'll see.

As I've said to a couple of other special people I've located on this forum: you are currently in the darkest days of your life; so think of this as a test, and when you come out the other side, you're going to be so based you'll be untouchable!

 

[Kriszti]

Thank you, @Zugzug.

As always, you are very helpful and thoughtful, much appreciated. You are our tracksuit-rocking forum hero and I am really sorry that you are going through what you are going through. Life is not fair in the slightest, you deserve so much better.

I'm not opposed to medication at all now (I kind of was, because I have a somewhat dependent personality), my issue with them is possible ototoxicity.

I need to do something, try something, because this situation, living in a limbo drags out aspects of my personality that I really, really don't like and is hard on people that I love, and I can't manage on my own.

 

[Juan]

I'm speculating that the silence is what's hindering improvements, as I figure my sound sensitivity can't improve when only hearing my breathing and heartbeat for 90% of the day. Yesterday I played pink noise for 30 minutes around the threshold of hearing, i.e. extremely low, and now I'm paying for it with the most severe spike yet. It's really a unsolvable catch 22, because I sincerely believe my hyperacusis could improve if I just could get a chance to expose myself to sound.

I recommend you to play music you like at normal volume and also try other combination of sounds (experiment a little at home: white noise + TV, radio + white noise, TV + radio... hearing exercises to train your brain). Hearing is complex and also brain processing of sounds.

Some people cannot hear competing sounds at the same time, but most people can, or at least to some degree. So maybe one can try to recreate a "normal" situation at home just to keep the brain active.

Just think of ordinary situations, like the competing sounds of a coffee bar or a supermarket. These are normal situations, but very challenging for a hyperacusic person, or for someone with bad tinnitus.

 

[Juan]

I've had times where I engaged in conversations for 1 hour (with deeply inserted foam earplugs) and it has caused prolonged worsenings, most likely permanent ones, but as we know, it shouldn't have caused damage or hearing loss.

I think this and the car example are caused by occlusion and bone conduction of sound.

 

[Stacken77]

Thank you @Juan for your replies.

I recommend you to play music you like at normal volume and also try other combination of sounds (experiment a little at home: white noise + TV, radio + white noise, TV + radio... hearing exercises to train your brain). Hearing is complex and also brain processing of sounds.

Some people cannot hear competing sounds at the same time, but most people can, or at least to some degree. So maybe one can try to recreate a "normal" situation at home just to keep the brain active.

Just think of ordinary situations, like the competing sounds of a coffee bar or a supermarket. These are normal situations, but very challenging for a hyperacusic person, or for someone with bad tinnitus.

Yes, I will experiment with different types of sound enrichment. I've found that continuous noises like road noise, wind, or <insert color here> noise do spike me much more severely than erratic or quick noises. I will somehow try to introduce sound again, very gradually while maintaining my baseline tinnitus, but it seems to be a challenge.

I think this and the car example are caused by occlusion and bone conduction of sound.

It could be, but my ears right now are so ridiculously sensitive that almost any sound with a duration over 3 seconds causes spikes, seemingly no matter how low it is. Of course, the occlusion effect does not help in this regard. I try to use deeply inserted foam earplugs and find that they, in my case, cause a very low amount of occlusion, in contrast to my custom molds which has an insanely high occlusion effect(I therefore rarely use them).

Thank you, and I wish you all well,
Stacken

 

[Zugzug]

Thank you, @Zugzug.

As always, you are very helpful and thoughtful, much appreciated. You are our tracksuit-rocking forum hero and I am really sorry that you are going through what you are going through. Life is not fair in the slightest, you deserve so much better.

I'm not opposed to medication at all now (I kind of was, because I have a somewhat dependent personality), my issue with them is possible ototoxicity.

I need to do something, try something, because this situation, living in a limbo drags out aspects of my personality that I really, really don't like and is hard on people that I love, and I can't manage on my own.

Thank you, @Kriszti. I know you are one of the good ones because in your profile, it says you have given around a thousand hugs. I've been suffering for a long time and I've noticed you supporting many people for a long, long time. Feel free to get your due.

Regarding antidepressants (at doses intended for depression), I have two experiences, night and day. The first time, I went on Cymbalta and was a horrible experience. I slept like 16 hours per day, no energy, tinnitus and hyperacusis were worse; I felt totally numb. However, it was definitely not ototoxic so I just discontinued.

The next time I started Lexapro. I know it's really hard to believe because of how depressed I am, but it definitely helped me. The side effect profile is also pretty low -- very different from my experience with Cymbalta.

Many people don't know this, but in the research threads, I sort of "came out of no where" in terms of being a lively and knowledgeable participant. This specifically coincided with starting Lexapro and having slightly more coherent thoughts. Granted, too high of dose, and the fatigue/brain fog is too much, making the depression worse.

Most importantly though, antidepressants are rarely ototoxic. Almost always, people see worsening of tinnitus on them because of how they are affecting serotonin in the brain. This is usually temporary. For example, I've been trying out CBG and CBN and both spiked my tinnitus. I stopped and the tinnitus went back to baseline. I wish more people would at least try antidepressants because there is something to the limbic system being a little more relaxed at dealing with the tinnitus.

Anyways, best of luck to you.

 

[grate_biff]

The first time, I went on Cymbalta and was a horrible experience. I slept like 16 hours per day, no energy, tinnitus and hyperacusis were worse; I felt totally numb.

It's really weird how differently we react to these antidepressants. I remember reading about a girl who claimed Cymbalta cured her noxacusis.

I've been an ADs far too long and I think they are part of my extreme anxiety and hearing problems.

My doctor is visiting me tomorrow (as I can't leave my house), I will tell him it must be benzos forever for me in order to survive any longer. I'm done.

The psychiatrist I was in contact with really let me down. Fuck him!

 

[kingsfan]

Well it finally happened. I was fired today.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Well it finally happened. I was fired today.

What why? Sorry man.

 

[Lurius]

It's really weird how differently we react to these antidepressants. I remember reading about a girl who claimed Cymbalta cured her noxacusis.

I've been an ADs far too long and I think they are part of my extreme anxiety and hearing problems.

My doctor is visiting me tomorrow (as I can't leave my house), I will tell him it must be benzos forever for me in order to survive any longer. I'm done.

The psychiatrist I was in contact with really let me down. Fuck him!

What kind of benzos are you talking about? Clonazepam? I just read about how Jordan Peterson got a very serous neurological disorder from the withdrawal he suffered when trying to get off Clonazepam. Are you really sure you want to go that route? Ask @Chinmoku about this, he knows.

 

[kingsfan]

What why? Sorry man.

couldnt keep up. Place was run like an agency. Only want things done quickly. Don't care if it's done well. I'm not about that life.

 

[grate_biff]

What kind of benzos are you talking about? Clonazepam? I just read about how Jordan Peterson got a very serous neurological disorder from the withdrawal he suffered when trying to get off Clonazepam. Are you really sure you want to go that route? Ask @Chinmoku about this, he knows.

I will go for Diazepam, as I think it is the "cleanest" of them (most benzos will metabolize into Oxazepam anyways)

Yes, Jordan Peterson suffers from akathesia. I know all too well what that's about. I have struggled with it for 2-3 years straight. Constant tremors and pain in legs, as I'm currently in never ending withdrawals. I'm down to 2 mg a day of Diazepam.

I'm sure of going that route, yes! I can't live with my severe noxacusis and extreme anxiety anymore.

I will never have to go through withdrawal either, because I'm ready to kill myself once tolerance sets in.

I'm ready to kill myself now, but hopefully benzo will give me some time with better quality of life.

That's what I'm hoping for.

 

[Zugzug]

It was the end of May, 2019. We had just moved into our new home with big plans. We went out and bought a flat screen TV and I noticed some balance issues for the first time.

We got home, put it up, and recycled the box. Why think ahead? We were going to be in the home for a long time, seeing our future kids off to school.

Today, I continue to pack and notice I don't have a box for the tv. It's stuff like this that makes me crawl into bed and sob like a little bitch. You win god, you worthless shitbag.

 

[Ava Lugo]

I'm also very depressed today. Sometimes reality it just hits you... other days it's possible to live the illusion of hope, sort of...

I did a headcount today, 13 noises, not one a hiss...

Just know there are others sitting here in similar situations that thinks about you.

How old are you btw?
I'm 41...

Just having a hissing tinnitus would be pretty darn nice. Just a white noise type of sound is what I could live with. Not intrusive reactive tones.

 

[Damocles]

couldnt keep up. Place was run like an agency. Only want things done quickly. Don't care if it's done well. I'm not about that life.

Now's the time to get your arse/"ass" back into the travel industry then I suppose!

 

[Exit]

Just having a hissing tinnitus would be pretty darn nice. Just a white noise type of sound is what I could live with. Not intrusive reactive tones.

The on and off bus brakes I hear 24/7 is very soul crushing.

How's it going with you?
Anything different?

 

[aura]

It was the end of May, 2019. We had just moved into our new home with big plans. We went out and bought a flat screen TV and I noticed some balance issues for the first time.

We got home, put it up, and recycled the box. Why think ahead? We were going to be in the home for a long time, seeing our future kids off to school.

Today, I continue to pack and notice I don't have a box for the tv. It's stuff like this that makes me crawl into bed and sob like a little bitch. You win god, you worthless shitbag.

Some of your posts make me feel really sad. Like this one. I feel like crying.

I ALWAYS keep the boxes. Always thinking ahead. Almost like expecting bad things to happen.

But what's the point?

Life takes us by surprise anyways.

Let me try to cheer you up the only way iIknow.
You get married and have a child.
Your child cries all day and night, your wife is very tired, losing her sexual interest in you.

You feel neglected, try to tell her that but she doesn't understand and blame it all on you because she feels that she's doing all the hard work.

You start cheating on her, she finds out and asks for the divorce.

Now you are a divorced man, paying for the child support, fighting for the child custody arrangements and dealing with only the loudest form of tinnitus because of the child crying and screaming in your ears non stop.

The good thing is that since you have to give her the TV, the box thing is not your problem anymore.

You're welcome.

 

[kingsfan]

Now's the time to get your arse/"ass" back into the travel industry then I suppose!

Kind of scary thought... going on interviews and a new job with screaming tinnitus. Kind of feel like this might be the beginning of my decline.

 

[Marcuso22]

It's stuff like this that makes me crawl into bed and sob like a little bitch. You win god, you worthless shitbag.

I have felt the same way in regards to God. I have very conflicting views about the existence of a great deity. It's certainly easier to believe in a merciful ubiquitous deity when things are going your way than when things are not. But being in an endless conflict with God or anyone for that matter doesn't bear much fruit. It only keeps us more angry setting off our emotions which then translates into more severe tinnitus &/or pain. That's the cycle we need to avoid which involves our limbic system making things worse for us sufferers. I finally came to the realization that we can't ever possibly know if God exists. After all it's all about a BELIEF system. If such a God exists we can't possibly understand why some good people (even the very pious ones) suffer & some bad people are rewarded nicely. Monotheists have been asking themselves this question since the evolution of such a belief. There's video's on this topic on you tube if you're interested. For myself whether there is a God & even a Satan doesn't matter much anymore. I have to decide whether my life is still worth living or not. For me it's a difficult choice right now.

 

[Chinmoku]

I'm out of words but there is this song I play in my head every now and then.

There is a noise that never goes out
(Re-fashioned after "There is a light that never goes out", The Smiths, The Queen is Dead)

Even if just calling it noise does not make it justice.
I'm not improving or anything. Every hour I ask myself how I managed to survive 1 more hour and especially how I'll manage the next hour. At the same time every object or place or situation, even the most trivial, triggers a recollection of my previous life and it's so bad, the enormity of the gap between these two states.

Yeah, where is God? Epicurus argued that an omnipotent and good God is impossible due to the problem of evil (simplifying). Jesus great novelty was that man no longer needed to go to God but that God would come to man. But for all the wonderful things Jesus said and did, where is He? We understand He may be suffering with us, that might console some believers, but to be honest it helps me very little. How is Epicurus dilemma solved? It seems that - at least from a human logic point of view - you need to remove goodness or omnipotence.

I read an interesting analysis a while back, "the impotent God" by a biblical scholar called Maggi. He argued that the word omnipotent appears only in two places in the Bible, once as a translation of Zeabot and once as a translation of Shaddai. Poor Jerome who made the titanic job of translating the whole Bible into Latin didn't know the meaning of these words and used "omnipotent" as a filler, but that's not what these words mean.

Maggi argues that belief in a traditional omnipotent and good God would lead to atheism as it is incompatible with the suffering we see and a good man would feel insulted. When he is presented with a God who is worse than man, man does not know what to do with this God and becomes atheist. Maggi goes on to propose a different form of potence (which is really not omnipotence as we usually mean it) but when in extreme suffering that is little consolation. We need the suffering to reduce or stop, it's too extreme for philosophizing. Only an omnipotent God could help with 100% success. But this is not happening. Even Jesus was denied. So where does that leave us? Praying for years when in extreme constant pain can be a coping mechanism in the beginning but may end up backfiring later on. This has happened to me and to other people I know in similar situations.

The feeling that nothing can help us and the realization of this fact is a further trauma.

Now I fight for one more hour.

A big big hug to all of you brothers and sisters in perpetual bad pain.